Thaksin Distancing Himself From Reds And Recent Violence?

[jayjay0]

Actuallythe reply I made was that maybe if Thaksin comes back and does his time they will cut him a deal and drop all the other charges.

I also mentioned that I wasn't sure of the prison conditions he would be under but I believe them to be better than the conditions of a high middle class.Not sure why that was deleted

[SamritT]

Thaksin should go to jail quick, before the jail is full of drug users.

[Asa]

Thaksin should go to jail quick, before the jail is full of drug users.

Drug addicts go to hospital, to heaven if ODed. Drug pushers go to jail if caught, and to heaven if killed. They will meet again in hel_l due to their own deed and karma.

[MikeyIdea]

This is a bit dangerous. The concept of apology is different here and the Thai's expect it to matter a lot. If Thaksin pushes his new face, then that will put pressure on the authorities to be lenient and stop persuing the legal issues - opening up a door for the return. Which by the help of funding of course can be turned around to that the master-of-lies decides to go into politics again to meet the expectations of his "majority" of followers

[Jingthing]

Whatever his current pose, he can't be trusted as far as you can throw him. If Thailand falls for his latest psych-ops game, they will only have themselves to blame.

[MikeyIdea]

Whatever his current pose, he can't be trusted as far as you can throw him. If Thailand falls for his latest psych-ops game, they will only have themselves to blame.

It's not as simple as that. The authorities will be expected to be lenient with him. If Thaksin handles the marketing of this new approach correctly, then it will be, can't find a good word to describe it, aggressive almost, not to go soft on him. That will not fall in nicely with his poorer followers and I am sure that Thaksin can find covert ways to use that. Not just - themselves to blame unfortunately

Edited August 3, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[Insight]

Whatever his current pose, he can't be trusted as far as you can throw him. If Thailand falls for his latest psych-ops game, they will only have themselves to blame.

It's not as simple as that. The authorities will be expected to be lenient with him. If Thaksin handles the marketing of this new approach correctly, then it will, can't find a good word to describe it, aggressive almost, not to go soft on him. That will not fall in nicely with his poorer followers and I am sure that Thaksin can find covert ways to use that. Not just - themselves to blame unfortunately

Frankly I think there's little chance of any leniency towards Thaksin being accepted by many. Praise from a certain individual to an author of a letter criticising CNN and a judgement just past on Korkiew's bail are sure signs of that.

[brd]

He is simply trapped as we do not see, no press report, behind the scenes what is happening against him. The funds confiscated affect not only himself but every one around whom are used to his largesse.....the countries whom hosted him are now reluctant to have their friend of before taken by any warrants that have to be actuated....or to be against Thailand... he is running away or flying away for how long can he do it....he is missing his crowd of fans...he has not his wife around, neither his children....he is isolated from being the centre of his world... not that young to pack up perpetually...why shall he tweet to leave prints behind him...of course the Thai laws exist even for him though Thaksin is coming to reality he has to face with its consequences. Nice not to hear about him as in the recent past. Thailand is better off without him haranguing against who is opposed to him. Much too long the saga Thaksin has created robbing others compared to the 63 millions people whom are representing Thailand that need economic , no social unrest and tourist revenues.

[scorecard]

At this level it's all about political positioning. You can't undue the past. Everything from here on from Thaksin is all spin in an effort to rewrite history to save his own skin. He doesn't care about the people of the Red Party or anyone else but himself and his billions. To think otherwise is simply to deny reality. As usual the poor masses are being used as a tool by the elite, of which Thaksin is a poster child.

Additionally, jakrabob is the mother of all flip-flops, loves to shoot his mouth off, and it would not be the first time that he's made statements, without approval, about what thaksin is thinking / what thaksin will do. I'm sure many people can remember the several times in the past when thaksin had to quickly and publicly scold jakrabob for his loose mouth and for overstepping his authority. Jakrabob also well know for embellishing the situation.

Edited August 3, 2010 by scorecard

[TAWP]

Thaksin should go to jail quick, before the jail is full of drug users.

Drug addicts go to hospital, to heaven if ODed. Drug pushers go to jail if caught, and to heaven if killed. They will meet again in hel_l due to their own deed and karma.

1) You are off-topic

2) You are wrong (drug users go to jail here)

[scorecard]

Whatever his current pose, he can't be trusted as far as you can throw him. If Thailand falls for his latest psych-ops game, they will only have themselves to blame.

It's not as simple as that. The authorities will be expected to be lenient with him. If Thaksin handles the marketing of this new approach correctly, then it will, can't find a good word to describe it, aggressive almost, not to go soft on him. That will not fall in nicely with his poorer followers and I am sure that Thaksin can find covert ways to use that. Not just - themselves to blame unfortunately

Frankly I think there's little chance of any leniency towards Thaksin being accepted by many. Praise from a certain individual to an author of a letter criticising CNN and a judgement just past on Korkiew's bail are sure signs of that.

I agree, I doubt any chances of leniency for thaksin.

But, if it's true that thaksin is looking for a sofetr appraoch, where does amsterdam fit into the picture, Or, is amsterdam in fact the cunning vehicle to try to generate sympathy and lenicency?

[scorecard]

This is a bit dangerous. The concept of apology is different here and the Thai's expect it to matter a lot. If Thaksin pushes his new face, then that will put pressure on the authorities to be lenient and stop persuing the legal issues - opening up a door for the return. Which by the help of funding of course can be turned around to that the master-of-lies decides to go into politics again to meet the expectations of his "majority" of followers

Quote from above: "......then that will put pressure on the authorities to be lenient and stop persuing the legal issues ....." So then of course we have a return of red shirt protests claiming 'NO DOUBLE STANDARDS', and 'EQUAL JUSTICE FOR ALL THAIS'.

Gotta make you laugh.

[scorecard]

Thaksin should go to jail quick, before the jail is full of drug users.

Don't be worried, he'll quickly work out how to get his cut.

[scorecard]

Thaksin lied when he promised to solve Bangkok's traffic problems or resign.

Thaksin lied when he campaigned under the promise that since he was already wealthy he didn't need to be corrupt.

Thaksin lied when he declared his assets after buying the 2001 election.

Thaksin lied when he "resigned" following the 2006 election, in which he cheated and lost his mandate to rule.

Thaksin lied when he said "I'm through with politics" following the 2006 coup.

Thaksin lied when he appeared on international television in 2009, giving nonsensical claims of government violence towards his red thugs.

Thaksin is lying now. It always has been and always will be about him getting his money and power back. His supporters can be divided into those out for a quick gain (the vote sellers, the paid protestors, the hired posters), those out for a long term position at the trough (the high level financiars of the terridist organisation, looking to make a profit on their investment), and those who feel that their lives were better during his reign, and to hel_l with the corruption, intimidation and murder of the many whose lives definitely weren't. Those latter are just as much to blame for the continuation of the rich/poor gap as the "elites" they profess to rail against.

The only way you know Thakisn isn't lying is when he's not talking, and even then someone else is being paid to lie for him.

Unfortunately that cuts in all directions with the vast majority of politicians throughout the world. When it comes to Thai politics, well, what can one say.

That is probably why the most dangerous politicians of all are the ones who say absolutely nothing.

Whether it's a general picture of all / many politicians is beside the point.

It is in fact a nice summation of thaksin. And as Jingthing said - wouldn't trust him for even half a second!

[Democrat]

Thaksin should go to jail quick, before the jail is full of drug users.

Too late 60% jailed are drug related crimes.

[scorecard]

As has been said by ballpoint.

ballpoint, on 2010-08-03 11:32, said:

Thaksin lied when he promised to solve Bangkok's traffic problems or resign.

Thaksin lied when he campaigned under the promise that since he was already wealthy he didn't need to be corrupt.

Thaksin lied when he declared his assets after buying the 2001 election.

Thaksin lied when he "resigned" following the 2006 election, in which he cheated and lost his mandate to rule.

Thaksin lied when he said "I'm through with politics" following the 2006 coup.

Thaksin lied when he appeared on international television in 2009, giving nonsensical claims of government violence towards his red thugs.

Thaksin is lying now. It always has been and always will be about him getting his money and power back. His supporters can be divided into those out for a quick gain (the vote sellers, the paid protestors, the hired posters), those out for a long term position at the trough (the high level financiars of the terridist organisation, looking to make a profit on their investment), and those who feel that their lives were better during his reign, and to hel_l with the corruption, intimidation and murder of the many whose lives definitely weren't. Those latter are just as much to blame for the continuation of the rich/poor gap as the "elites" they profess to rail against.

I well remember his proud boast about Bangkok's traffic, Thaksin resigned after around 6 months as I recall, having by then eaten his way like a maggot into the political system and polished up his corruption skills to the highest possible level.

I am surprised that Thaksin has not copyrighted lying as his own personal property

And don't forget that he installed himself as the education minister and made lots of loud and big promises of major reform of the education system and a stop to the massive corruption within the education ministry*, then after about 4 months he quietly removed himself as the education minister and handed it to one of his cronies who was totally unqualified for the position and achieved nothing. (* polls indicate that the education ministry is second on the list of most corrupt ministries just behind the police.)

[animatic]

Thaksin lied when he promised to solve Bangkok's traffic problems or resign.

Thaksin lied when he campaigned under the promise that since he was already wealthy he didn't need to be corrupt.

Thaksin lied when he declared his assets after buying the 2001 election.

Thaksin lied when he "resigned" following the 2006 election, in which he cheated and lost his mandate to rule.

Thaksin lied when he said "I'm through with politics" following the 2006 coup.

Thaksin lied when he appeared on international television in 2009, giving nonsensical claims of government violence towards his red thugs.

Thaksin is lying now. It always has been and always will be about him getting his money and power back. His supporters can be divided into those out for a quick gain (the vote sellers, the paid protestors, the hired posters), those out for a long term position at the trough (the high level financiars of the terridist organisation, looking to make a profit on their investment), and those who feel that their lives were better during his reign, and to hel_l with the corruption, intimidation and murder of the many whose lives definitely weren't. Those latter are just as much to blame for the continuation of the rich/poor gap as the "elites" they profess to rail against.

The only way you know Thakisn isn't lying is when he's not talking, and even then someone else is being paid to lie for him.

Unfortunately that cuts in all directions with the vast majority of politicians throughout the world. When it comes to Thai politics, well, what can one say.

That is probably why the most dangerous politicians of all are the ones who say absolutely nothing.

Whether it's a general picture of all / many politicians is beside the point.

It is in fact a nice summation of thaksin. And as Jingthing said - wouldn't trust him for even half a second!

A billion dollars US can disappear to 300 different banks in half a second.

Then he is free to do as he pleases, with what he is willing to lose to return to power.

With a plane stashed at ever airport in case he needs to go fast.

He has proved for years on end repeatedly 'he can not be trusted'.

Apologies are fine, but realistic thinking based on past realities

must take precedence to making nice face.

No matter what propitious cycle may be upon us.

[bendejo]

"That is probably why the most dangerous politicians of all are those who say absolutely nothing".

Except in the US, where a senator can speak for hours on end and say absolutely nothing. Just ask John McCain.

[Puccini]

...You can discuss the law relating to granting a pardon, but do not bring His Majesty the King into the political discussion! We have zero tolerance regarding such posts.

From an English translation of the current Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand:

Section 191. The King has the prerogative to grant a pardon.

From "Factsheet. Thailand - Royal Amnesties and and the King's Pardon" published by the organisation "Prisoners Abroad"

...A Royal Amnesty in Thailand involves the King of Thailand granting a reduction of sentence or other benefits to certain categories of offenders. The King usually declares such amnesties on certain occasions, most commonly at the time of his birthday, which is 5 December.

No specific actions are required by the person detained or his/her family to benefit from such a declaration...

...This type of pardon needs to be specifically prepared in advance and sent to the King in the form of a petition. It is also known as a Petition for Executive Clemency. If a pardon is not approved, the applicant will have to wait for 2 years before submitting another application. The Petition process is mandated under Sections 259 to 267 of the Criminal Procedure Code relating to Pardon, Commutation and Reduction of Punishment; under Section 34 of the Penitentiary Act, 1936; and under Items 120 to 126 of the Ministerial Regulation of the Ministry of Interior...

...A petition can be completed in three ways:

• signed by the detainee themselves (the Petition can be prepared inside prison, or a member of family or a lawyer can prepare it and then deliver it to the detainee for signature)
  
• signed by a member of the person’s family
  
• signed by the detainee with a request to maintain the confidentiality of the contents, as per item 125 of the Ministerial Regulations.
  

...

Constitution 2007.pdf

Royal Amnesties and the King's Pardon.pdf

[Puccini]

The vetting of the red-shirt petition on his behalf for a royal pardon is expected to be completed later this year.

I wonder if the Reds regret their stupidity in getting 3.5 million signatures that all have to be individually verified when all that is required is one.

I saw it mentioned on this forum some months ago and the fact sheet of "Prisoners Abroad" confirms what March posted here, ie a petition signed by a large number of citizens not directly related to the person for whom amnesty is sought is not the correct procedure.

I also saw it mentioned in this forum that for somebody to even qualify to apply for amnesty, he must have been convicted and must have started to serve his sentence. It would therefore appear that at the present time Thaksin is not qualified to submit a petition.

The fact sheet's discussion of the procedure makes reference to various sections of the Criminal Procedure Code and the Penitentiary Act and to various items of a Ministerial Regulation of the Ministry of Interior. I do not have these texts and if anybody has them I would appreciate his posting them. Thaksin's lawyers no doubt have studied them, and if we know them, too, we might gain some insight into the options Thaksin has and what he might be planning. As has been said, though, it will not be for us to speculate or wish what the decision on a petition might be, if a valid petition should ever be submitted.

[march]

...A petition can be completed in three ways:

• signed by the detainee themselves (the Petition can be prepared inside prison, or a member of family or a lawyer can prepare it and then deliver it to the detainee for signature)
  
• signed by a member of the person’s family
  
• signed by the detainee with a request to maintain the confidentiality of the contents, as per item 125 of the Ministerial Regulations.
  

...

Thanks for that info.

Additionally, in regards to the above, AFAIK, neither the detainee (and of course, he is unfortunately not a detainee... yet) nor a member of the detainee's family signed the petition.

But, as you say, I'm sure the non-detainee's substantial squadron of attorneys went over all of this and we can presume that the petition, as it is, is legal.

Still, the blundering of their petitioner's actions in getting so many signatures in what they thought would "look better" was stupid because it added not one crumb more to the weight of it. Instead, it made the process of verification drag out, justifiably, for months. The only lucky thing for them is that their earlier boastful claims of having 10 million signatures to it turned out to be just another Shinawatra lie. Otherwise, it would legitimately take a couple or three years to complete verification. If only that pig sister of his, Yaowapha, had simply been the one signature to it, the processing would have long been completed.

Just another in a long line of his many stupid blunders.

[MikeyIdea]

Whatever his current pose, he can't be trusted as far as you can throw him. If Thailand falls for his latest psych-ops game, they will only have themselves to blame.

It's not as simple as that. The authorities will be expected to be lenient with him. If Thaksin handles the marketing of this new approach correctly, then it will, can't find a good word to describe it, aggressive almost, not to go soft on him. That will not fall in nicely with his poorer followers and I am sure that Thaksin can find covert ways to use that. Not just - themselves to blame unfortunately

Frankly I think there's little chance of any leniency towards Thaksin being accepted by many. Praise from a certain individual to an author of a letter criticising CNN and a judgement just past on Korkiew's bail are sure signs of that.

I was here during Sujinda and I then thought - "Oh, he will never be able to return to Thailand after that". Yet some years later, there he was back on Sukhumvit Rd living as a privileged citizen with his own police force even

Don't under-estimate the power of the apology in Thailand.

It could be possible for Thaksin, if he gets his apology, to open up his old bag of tricks and spend some pocket money paying peaceful "demonstraters" to demonstrate, then paying not so peaceful demonstraters to occupy. A hundred million bath should be more than enough, pocket money. no more

Can someone suggest a better way for a power hungry ex prime minister with a huge ego that has been dented to spend some pocket money? If he gets the apology, then I can't

[MikeyIdea]

This is a bit dangerous. The concept of apology is different here and the Thai's expect it to matter a lot. If Thaksin pushes his new face, then that will put pressure on the authorities to be lenient and stop persuing the legal issues - opening up a door for the return. Which by the help of funding of course can be turned around to that the master-of-lies decides to go into politics again to meet the expectations of his "majority" of followers

Quote from above: "......then that will put pressure on the authorities to be lenient and stop persuing the legal issues ....." So then of course we have a return of red shirt protests claiming 'NO DOUBLE STANDARDS', and 'EQUAL JUSTICE FOR ALL THAIS'.

Gotta make you laugh.

Laugh on scorecard, the poor and uneducated have always been used and will continue to be used

The red shirts wanting "equal justice for all" last time were standing beside big signs saying "Peaceful protesters, not terrorists" and yet there they stood while the gas tanks that was planned to be used to burn Central World if the army moved in were stock piled easily viewable only 50 meters away - the guards at the Offices at Central World easily saw them when they walked passed them, anyone think that that the "peaceful protesters" did not see them? In fact, the "peaceful protesters" were there because they had been led to believe that it, among other things, was going to give them one standard and equal justice, and they believed it

Edited August 4, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[SamritT]

Unseparable.

[virtualtraveller]

He's proved too many times that he's a man not to be trusted, and he has too many allies here, so that if you opened the door and gave him an inch he'll end up pushing the whole thing open. It's not just about him, but a huge gravy train behind him who want to see him back so that he can buy their loyalties with lots of cash.

Even if you did a deal with him, he's one of those typical Thai wheeler-dealers who believe you can wriggle your way around an agreement by finding legal loopholes and proxy representation to continue as you always have, ignoring the spirit of the agreement. I believe in England it's called 'honour' or 'gentlemens' agreement' two things I wouldn't associate with Thaksin.

[scorecard]

This is a bit dangerous. The concept of apology is different here and the Thai's expect it to matter a lot. If Thaksin pushes his new face, then that will put pressure on the authorities to be lenient and stop persuing the legal issues - opening up a door for the return. Which by the help of funding of course can be turned around to that the master-of-lies decides to go into politics again to meet the expectations of his "majority" of followers

Quote from above: "......then that will put pressure on the authorities to be lenient and stop persuing the legal issues ....." So then of course we have a return of red shirt protests claiming 'NO DOUBLE STANDARDS', and 'EQUAL JUSTICE FOR ALL THAIS'.

Gotta make you laugh.

Laugh on scorecard, the poor and uneducated have always been used and will continue to be used

The red shirts wanting "equal justice for all" last time were standing beside big signs saying "Peaceful protesters, not terrorists" and yet there they stood while the gas tanks that was planned to be used to burn Central World if the army moved in were stock piled easily viewable only 50 meters away - the guards at the Offices at Central World easily saw them when they walked passed them, anyone think that that the "peaceful protesters" did not see them? In fact, the "peaceful protesters" were there because they had been led to believe that it, among other things, was going to give them one standard and equal justice, and they believed it

I agree totally that the uneducated and poor have been used as pawns and thaksin is one of the biggest offenders in terms of using these people. They deserve better: respect as human beings with equal rights and equal opportunity in every possible way.

Not sure of the rest of your comment -what's your point?

[MikeyIdea]

This is a bit dangerous. The concept of apology is different here and the Thai's expect it to matter a lot. If Thaksin pushes his new face, then that will put pressure on the authorities to be lenient and stop persuing the legal issues - opening up a door for the return. Which by the help of funding of course can be turned around to that the master-of-lies decides to go into politics again to meet the expectations of his "majority" of followers

Quote from above: "......then that will put pressure on the authorities to be lenient and stop persuing the legal issues ....." So then of course we have a return of red shirt protests claiming 'NO DOUBLE STANDARDS', and 'EQUAL JUSTICE FOR ALL THAIS'.

Gotta make you laugh.

Laugh on scorecard, the poor and uneducated have always been used and will continue to be used

The red shirts wanting "equal justice for all" last time were standing beside big signs saying "Peaceful protesters, not terrorists" and yet there they stood while the gas tanks that was planned to be used to burn Central World if the army moved in were stock piled easily viewable only 50 meters away - the guards at the Offices at Central World easily saw them when they walked passed them, anyone think that that the "peaceful protesters" did not see them? In fact, the "peaceful protesters" were there because they had been led to believe that it, among other things, was going to give them one standard and equal justice, and they believed it

I agree totally that the uneducated and poor have been used as pawns and thaksin is one of the biggest offenders in terms of using these people. They deserve better: respect as human beings with equal rights and equal opportunity in every possible way.

Not sure of the rest of your comment -what's your point?

Apologies if I wasn't clear. What I meant was that the "peaceful protesters" did really believe that they were supporting one standard and equal justice, it wasn't laughable for them. They did not see any double standard in occupying Bangkok and walking past the gas tanks planned to be used to burn Bangkok every day. I think that it would be easy to get some red supporters to do the same again

[march]

Poor old Seh Daeng, only dead a couple of months, and his close mates seem to have forgotten that he even existed.

The Seh Daeng Red Bomber Battalion seem to still be very active in their quest for death and mayhem:

Bhum Jai Thai Party's headquarters and Ram Intra Road bombs

Warisriya Bunsom

Korbchai Bunplod

Kamphol Khamkhong

Dejphol Phutthajong

Anek Singhunthod

Big C bomb

Patiphak Ekapiwat's brother and four others

Assorted grenade attacks

Rachata Wongyod

Additional assorted grenade attacks

Surachai Thewarat

The above coming from the two threads:

and

Update to the above as per a BP article this morning

Big C and Rang Nam Road bombs with one death and several injuries

Sorapian Singkanya

Seksan Worapiticharoenkul

Kitisak Sumsri

[Insight]

Apologies if I wasn't clear. What I meant was that the "peaceful protesters" did really believe that they were supporting one standard and equal justice, it wasn't laughable for them. They did not see any double standard in occupying Bangkok and walking past the gas tanks planned to be used to burn Bangkok every day. I think that it would be easy to get some red supporters to do the same again

"I think that it would be easy to get some red supporters to do the same again"

I agree. Just imagine how popular Scientology would be out here if they switched the donation system around?

Re your earlier comments about Sujinda - I agree it could also happen to Thaksin, but I personally believe it would take a very public display of Thaksin getting down on his hands and knees in front of somebody before it will be allowed to happen in the immediate future at least. It's something I doubt as whether Thaksin will lower his pride enough to go through.

[animatic]

...A petition can be completed in three ways:

• signed by the detainee themselves (the Petition can be prepared inside prison, or a member of family or a lawyer can prepare it and then deliver it to the detainee for signature)
• signed by a member of the person's family
• signed by the detainee with a request to maintain the confidentiality of the contents, as per item 125 of the Ministerial Regulations.

...

Thanks for that info.

Additionally, in regards to the above, AFAIK, neither the detainee (and of course, he is unfortunately not a detainee... yet) nor a member of the detainee's family signed the petition.

But, as you say, I'm sure the non-detainee's substantial squadron of attorneys went over all of this and we can presume that the petition, as it is, is legal.

Still, the blundering of their petitioner's actions in getting so many signatures in what they thought would "look better" was stupid because it added not one crumb more to the weight of it. Instead, it made the process of verification drag out, justifiably, for months. The only lucky thing for them is that their earlier boastful claims of having 10 million signatures to it turned out to be just another Shinawatra lie. Otherwise, it would legitimately take a couple or three years to complete verification. If only that pig sister of his, Yaowapha, had simply been the one signature to it, the processing would have long been completed.

Just another in a long line of his many stupid blunders.

I believe based on this;

"signed by the detainee with a request to maintain the confidentiality of the contents, as per item 125 of the Ministerial Regulations."

and the fact this anything BUT 'confidential' it is not in all probability legally valid.

I do remember some distant cousin was mooted as the 'concerned relative',

whether this distance of married or genetic relation is legitimate remains to be determined.

Edited August 5, 2010 by animatic