The Risk Of Killing Children

[neverdie]

^& sensational roads with a fair share of considerate drivers.

[Garry]

^& sensational roads with a fair share of considerate drivers.

I was in Germany for the first tiem this year and I have to say that I was impressed on how well drivers had their collective sh&t together on the autobahns (their road craft), any road for that matter. Most gave you room, most planned ahead on any course changes. In regards to ramp speed. Ramp speed was real ramp speed smooth progression onto the autobahn. Even most of the trucks were at highway speed when they came onto the autobahns. Hardly, if ever did I get hampered by some dick not paying attention. The same can't be said for drivers in Oman..take you life in yuor hands riding a bike there. The reason I sold my R1 and bought my Ducati in Thailand...bike savvy road users

[katabeachbum]

^& sensational roads with a fair share of considerate drivers.

I was in Germany for the first tiem this year and I have to say that I was impressed on how well drivers had their collective sh&t together on the autobahns (their road craft), any road for that matter. Most gave you room, most planned ahead on any course changes. In regards to ramp speed. Ramp speed was real ramp speed smooth progression onto the autobahn. Even most of the trucks were at highway speed when they came onto the autobahns. Hardly, if ever did I get hampered by some dick not paying attention. The same can't be said for drivers in Oman..take you life in yuor hands riding a bike there. The reason I sold my R1 and bought my Ducati in Thailand...bike savvy road users

used to drive through Germany few times a year, and weeks at the time during the years I worked for a car maker. Cruising speed over 200kmh and average of 160-180kmh was the norm. Very smooth, very few accidents.

speedlimits over 3,5 ton is 80 kmh, and each driver max 8 of 24 hours, strictly enforced.

[Garry]

^& sensational roads with a fair share of considerate drivers.

I was in Germany for the first tiem this year and I have to say that I was impressed on how well drivers had their collective sh&t together on the autobahns (their road craft), any road for that matter. Most gave you room, most planned ahead on any course changes. In regards to ramp speed. Ramp speed was real ramp speed smooth progression onto the autobahn. Even most of the trucks were at highway speed when they came onto the autobahns. Hardly, if ever did I get hampered by some dick not paying attention. The same can't be said for drivers in Oman..take you life in yuor hands riding a bike there. The reason I sold my R1 and bought my Ducati in Thailand...bike savvy road users

used to drive through Germany few times a year, and weeks at the time during the years I worked for a car maker. Cruising speed over 200kmh and average of 160-180kmh was the norm. Very smooth, very few accidents.

speedlimits over 3,5 ton is 80 kmh, and each driver max 8 of 24 hours, strictly enforced.

Definitely saw that. My buddy told me (as yuo stated) that it was enforced pretty heavily on the truck driver rest ups. I don't know how many layover truck stops I saw on the main autobahns. All very neatly arranged as well with food & fuel. Proper truck stops. I never saw any old bangers on the road, that's for sure.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Garry

[dave_boo]

I am surprised to understand that some folks are unaware of ThVi postings that are frightening in showing irresponsible driving by bikers. I do not see the value of pointing fingers, but what raised this issue in my mind was a thread that contained statements such as these two, but there are others and videos and photos:

"The occasional dog that doesn't get out of the way gets run over. Fortunately most Thai dogs aren't that big so running them over with a bike really isn't much of a problem."

***I should add that the original included a strategy for avoiding such incidents - one that does not work very well.-CMX

"Just don't brake whilst hitting them; the loss of traction of shredded guts plus locked brakes could be disasterous."

Yes, I'm new in Thailand and am not yet comfortable seeing dogs killed with such regularity and cavalier indifference in order to allow enthusiasts to enjoy racing where people are squirting out of nowhere, even in the countryside and forests. I was taught to drive no faster than I could see to stop. I have always thought that this speed/seeing/stopping ideas were worthwhile. No?

And I was thinking too that someone would suggest that the parents would be to blame, and so someone did. That a biker's inability to stop before hitting a child would be the fault of others seems to me the wrong approach to thinking and it goes, I suggest, to demonstrating the attitude responsible for the danger. (Also, I can guess that no Thai court would see the parent's lapse as contributory.)

On the other hand, who can deny that every biker would drop self and bike to avoid another human? If at all possible. There's the rub.

The issue that troubles this biker is speed, sight, and braking/steering. Do racers ever, or even often, exceed with speed their ability to stop - or direct the crash - on the public highways? Race courses and tracks with limited access are one thing; driving on curving hilly public roads another. Let me propose too that where dogs lie in the streets there are frequently villages.

The rotten thing is that all the denials, all the changing the of subject, shifting ground, all the attributions to motives are avoiding the issue that conduct that would be condemned and punished in the West as being far too risky to life is being enjoyed here, and defended, by those who can get away with it. Hoping for luck. And no, it is not only their business; the answer is jail time.

Since your second quote comes from me I guess I should point out that there is NO way that you could travel at a speed to allow you to stop in time to prevent a collision with all dogs out there. For example one time I was traveling through a village at a reasonable speed (75?) and there were some pups playing in the right lane. I gave them a honk and spilled yet more speed off. Out of those five dogs four split for the closest driveway (opposite side of street from my lane). The other Darwin award canidate ran over into my lane.

What was I to do? Saw further on the brakes and hope that I stopped in time or the pup realised he had done something incredibly stupid and follow his litter mates? Or do I lay off the brakes to allow control to swerve around the idiot? Had I stayed on the brakes I would have definitely hit him dead on and then I would have been dealing with smeared entrails and smoking brakes. Would not have ended well for either.

Instead I left off the brakes, pinned the throttle, and swayed hard (hard enough to end up in some of the gravel that was thankfully fairly wide along the road) to my left. Lifting my right foot off the peg I mostly missed him.

I would guess that you are a very conscientious driver, but are you going to state with a straight face that you've traveled enough distance at a speed safe enough to allow no casualties amongst the fauna of the world? There's been no birds to become embedded in your grille or bounce off your windscreen(for instance)?

It sounds to me like you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Get out and ride some more, even if it's at what you consider 'sane' speeds and see the problems that travelers have to deal with.

FWIW, I'm a slow rider and have yet to kill an animal while driving anything. However, having knowledge to prevent serious damage to myself, my property, or possibly a bystander in the case of an extreme unlikelyhood is good to know.

[Zzinged]

I am surprised to understand that some folks are unaware of ThVi postings that are frightening in showing irresponsible driving by bikers. I do not see the value of pointing fingers, but what raised this issue in my mind was a thread that contained statements such as these two, but there are others and videos and photos

You're going to need to do better than that if you want to sound less like a troll. Post links so other viewers can go check out the threads themselves instead of relying on you to provide out-of-context quotes for discussion.

"The occasional dog that doesn't get out of the way gets run over. Fortunately most Thai dogs aren't that big so running them over with a bike really isn't much of a problem."

***I should add that the original included a strategy for avoiding such incidents - one that does not work very well.-CMX

"Just don't brake whilst hitting them; the loss of traction of shredded guts plus locked brakes could be disasterous."

I don't see the problem here. That's pretty sound advice. Stuff like this happens. I don't see any indication of these mysterious posters (again, based solely on the quotes you posted) posting anything other than advice on what to do if you happen to find yourself in this sort of situation.

If these reckless speeders go so far as to discuss safest way to run over a dog (braking in the blood and guts appears to be the real problem, they suggest), how are we to conclude that they do not take excessive risks with the lives of citizens (kids can be as small as a pooch; let us not discuss the statistics as the danger is so much more important)

So based on what I said earlier, you're going to need more solid proof of your claim. I don't see how you can link a discussion of how to run over a dog safely, in the event of it being unavoidable, with riders taking risks that may kill children.

The rotten thing is that all the denials, all the changing the of subject, shifting ground, all the attributions to motives are avoiding the issue that conduct that would be condemned and punished in the West as being far too risky to life is being enjoyed here, and defended, by those who can get away with it.

So basically, you're saying that everyone else is wrong and you alone are right?

Lastly, your title is, 'The risk of killing children' and your subtitle is 'Racing on public highways'. Are you claiming that you see small children playing on highways regularly? You yourself said, 'Let me propose too that where dogs lie in the streets there are frequently villages.' So are we talking about people going fast on highways or on village roads?

There are holes shot all over your arguments. This does indeed seem like a mere diatribe.

Why do you assume this sort of behaviour is exclusive to Thai Visa bike riders? What is your definition of a highway, as is stated in your topic title? How do you expect bike riders to react if a dog jumps in front of them and they have 1-2 seconds to react? What do you mean by, 'to enjoy racing where people are squirting out of nowhere, even in the countryside and forests'? When you say, 'I was taught to drive no faster than I could see to stop', does this not mean that if you had a road that goes straight for 1km, you could drive at your vehicle's maximum speed (you can see 1km, therefore you can drive at whatever speed so long as you could stop within 1km)?

Edited August 8, 2010 by Zzinged

[CMX]

First, let me admit that dogs jump out in front of us in ways that are unavoidable. Sometimes they seem to want to bite. But anyone who claims to ride the country roads of Thailand knows full well that most problems are from dogs sleeping on the road itself, shade or sun sometimes (even in the hot season!). Those are the animals that we should be able to avoid, and it is not unusual for them to appear to us just around a curve in a complete surprise. I suppose we could assert that all dogs lying in the road have been avoided, but who are we kidding?

Dave___B is of course in the right of it - the most careful among us are going to cause harm or be harmed. And certainly emergency procedures should be discussed. I apologize for coupling his advice with those entries that suggest that killing dogs is fairly often a regular thing.

Certainly it is NOT Thai Visa bike forum riders alone, and I have no notion of percents of us, who ride in dangerous ways, on public highways in the country (cities are a very complex problem in themselves and I never raised those byzantine issues). Not talking about highly regulated autobahns either, those that have not yet been limited pretty much to 130, 120 or less nowadays.

I am simply saying that if I go faster than the point which I can see and stop I am representing a serious threat to all life, one that is criminal. Thus all our laws, regulations, and expense in Western societies. Try to exceed 130 by very much at all in France (ONLY allowed on limited access autoroutes) and then watch your mail.

Here, the law appears very rarely enforced until after the fact in the case of country accidents. Some of us riders race on simple country roads; it is their love, and in that sense of control and mastery and challenge, who could blame them? Only those convinced that safety is more important and that self-delusion goes before a fall. I do not doubt that every sober rider would take any personal risk to avoid harming a human - the issue is that of ability to stop or avoid, and both are limited severely if the driver cannot see the danger. The hope would arrive too late, the harm done, regret useless.

Anyone who insists upon my documenting by pointing fingers must take us off topic and assure personality exchanges. I agree that usually references should be given, with citations, but they are so easily available that I still hold that any search - or even reading back among our recent topics - will easily document very high speeds and a cavalier attitude about killing dogs. It was because of entries on ThVi that I became concerned, however, and if readers are ignorant of these films, pictures and statements, their handicap can be easily cured by a quick review of titles. Nowhere have I suggested any intent to harm people except one of a wanton and careless disregard.

And I have only mentioned a concern about speed when combined with curves and hills - blind areas - that risk the innocent. Even on the straight, though, Thais running onto the roads from fields - especially combined with any other hazard, can also be a problem far worse than a dog's slaughter.

Yes, I have recent years of experience in driving among living hazards - deer. CMX was my airport. You would not think it given their size, but they are more challenging than local dogs - behaving suicidally. Cars have been completely destroyed; bikers must ride in some places below the allowed speed limits in order to stop before hitting one, because that deer ain't gonna move from the lights. From time to time we hear about bikers loosing the contest altogether - over in WI there are no helmet laws.

"Making a mountain out of a molehill" is a valid question. So is it valid to ask why so many of us rage at Thai driving and those fatality reports that are statistically dubious when we cannot stand to point a finger at ourselves; in some circumstances, speed kills.

Edited August 8, 2010 by CMX

[dave_boo]

First, let me admit that dogs jump out in front of us in ways that are unavoidable. Sometimes they seem to want to bite. But anyone who claims to ride the country roads of Thailand knows full well that most problems are from dogs sleeping on the road itself, shade or sun sometimes (even in the hot season!). Those are the animals that we should be able to avoid, and it is not unusual for them to appear to us just around a curve in a complete surprise. I suppose we could assert that all dogs lying in the road have been avoided, but who are we kidding?

Dave___B is of course in the right of it - the most careful among us are going to cause harm or be harmed. And certainly emergency procedures should be discussed. I apologize for coupling his advice with those entries that suggest that killing dogs is fairly often a regular thing.

Certainly it is NOT Thai Visa bike forum riders alone, and I have no notion of percents of us, who ride in dangerous ways, on public highways in the country (cities are a very complex problem in themselves and I never raised those byzantine issues). Not talking about highly regulated autobahns either, those that have not yet been limited pretty much to 130, 120 or less nowadays.

I am simply saying that if I go faster than the point which I can see and stop I am representing a serious threat to all life, one that is criminal. Thus all our laws, regulations, and expense in Western societies. Try to exceed 130 by very much at all in France (ONLY allowed on limited access autoroutes) and then watch your mail.

Here, the law appears very rarely enforced until after the fact in the case of country accidents. Some of us riders race on simple country roads; it is their love, and in that sense of control and mastery and challenge, who could blame them? Only those convinced that safety is more important and that self-delusion goes before a fall. I do not doubt that every sober rider would take any personal risk to avoid harming a human - the issue is that of ability to stop or avoid, and both are limited severely if the driver cannot see the danger. The hope would arrive too late, the harm done, regret useless.

Anyone who insists upon my documenting by pointing fingers must take us off topic and assure personality exchanges. I agree that usually references should be given, with citations, but they are so easily available that I still hold that any search - or even reading back among our recent topics - will easily document very high speeds and a cavalier attitude about killing dogs. It was because of entries on ThVi that I became concerned, however, and if readers are ignorant of these films, pictures and statements, their handicap can be easily cured by a quick review of titles. Nowhere have I suggested any intent to harm people except one of a wanton and careless disregard.

And I have only mentioned a concern about speed when combined with curves and hills - blind areas - that risk the innocent. Even on the straight, though, Thais running onto the roads from fields - especially combined with any other hazard, can also be a problem far worse than a dog's slaughter.

Yes, I have recent years of experience in driving among living hazards - deer. CMX was my airport. You would not think it given their size, but they are more challenging than local dogs - behaving suicidally. Cars have been completely destroyed; bikers must ride in some places below the allowed speed limits in order to stop before hitting one, because that deer ain't gonna move from the lights. From time to time we hear about bikers loosing the contest altogether - over in WI there are no helmet laws.

"Making a mountain out of a molehill" is a valid question. So is it valid to ask why so many of us rage at Thai driving and those fatality reports that are statistically dubious when we cannot stand to point a finger at ourselves; in some circumstances, speed kills.

Odd that you would focus so narrowly on a perceived problem (presumed canine-icide of dogs simply sunning themselves in a ROADway) and extrapolate that out into attempted vehicular homicide.

I have yet to hear of ANY one on the board even admit to hitting a dog (other than I); granted I witnessed firsthand a chicken go kamikaze in front of a CB400 traveling at sub-legal speeds (we were lost and looking for identifiers), but I'm not one to name and shame.

I think, based on my admittedly non-scientific survey (guess), that since dogs are the most common non-human road hazard it's not a bad idea to discuss the options for preventing damage to yourself, your bike or the dog (in that order!) in the likelihood of an incident. I'd assume that when you were a youngster you were told the first aid for a cut/abrasion since being a guy you were most prone to that. Were your parents negligent for providing you with that information since it allowed you to hurt yourself and fix it afterwards?

I would like to know the speed, even in a motor vehicle that you take a blind corner at. Despite all the posturing I'd be willing to hazard a guess that even you can't say you go around them at a speed that would allow you to stop nearly instantaneously.

There is a huge difference between expat riders and Thai drivers/riders. Anyone who has been in LOS for a decent amount of time knows that they will lose any confrontation regardless as to the lay of the actual blame. Coupled with the mai bpen rai attitude evidenced by even the bus drivers (who are some of the best drivers in the West) your attempt at moral equivalency falls rather flat.

BTW, last year my brother and his wife total her car (he was driving) and dinged up his truck (she was driving that time) on whitetails.....

[Lickey]

Ray23 hit a dog on his way to my place, he hit the brakes, locked the front wheel and over he and mrs went, if i remember, he had to pay 5000bht for the dead dog and about 8000bht for repairs to his bike, he will confirm this if he sees the posting,

Im sure it was posted on here!

If its inevitable that you will hit an animal or human, personally, i would lay off the brakes until the incident is over, because a locked [braked wheel] can do a lot more damage than a free-turning wheel to the victim,

Here i have a Yam 1200, my speed, 80k, because of the blinkered thai drivers, Home, i have ZZR1100, tour the continent of Europe, speeds of 280k on the autobans, no problem,

Easy thing to do is adjust your speed to the envoiroment,

[bobbin]

I see the biggest speed braggart is lying low in this thread.

[Fishenough]

I see the biggest speed braggart is lying low in this thread.

No way there's just one? :lol:

And any two wheeled rider should be hyper-vigilant at all times.

Ok, ok we know what the roads are like here and back were we came from, but here in the north more responsibility when it comes to personal safety - in regards to Children. I say this as a motorcyclist that has covered much of western and northern Canada, where we were the ones that got, often, into trouble for risking Children lives for anything above the speed limit in rural areas. Yes we slowed down on our backroad bashing when civilization approached, when we could, but thirty years ago to three years ago it feels that in the west the kids safety is other peoples responsibility (shouldn't it be everyone's). Kids will be kids, but here they seem more cautious to the dangers around them and I've never seen some of the dumb-ass maneuvers common on the road in rural Canada (my own street hockey days included).

[LivinLOS]

Ok, ok we know what the roads are like here and back were we came from, but here in the north more responsibility when it comes to personal safety - in regards to Children. I say this as a motorcyclist that has covered much of western and northern Canada, where we were the ones that got, often, into trouble for risking Children lives for anything above the speed limit in rural areas. Yes we slowed down on our backroad bashing when civilization approached, when we could, but thirty years ago to three years ago it feels that in the west the kids safety is other peoples responsibility (shouldn't it be everyone's). Kids will be kids, but here they seem more cautious to the dangers around them and I've never seen some of the dumb-ass maneuvers common on the road in rural Canada (my own street hockey days included).

Really ?? I would say the total opposite..

Theres a small road near me used as a rat run shortcut through baans, its got a sharp 90 degree bend in it with reduced visibility. I notice as I ride up that some Thai woman is there with a toddler, getting food. Shes let the toddler wander into the middle of the road, right on a blind bend that cars do take too quickly.

I approach (from the visible side) she sees a scooter going towards her child and her reaction ?? Shout at the kid and turn her back to it to continue picking food. I avoid the child obviously, while its still stumbling about right in the danger zone, take the corner and sure enough flying along is a fortuna.. I flash and wave, slow it down, and even then it needed to emergency stop only feet back from the child. The mother then comes out and glares at the fortuna !!!

In general I just find them near oblivious to their surrounding, often crossing without looking, or the ever comical old ladys who look the other way to speed walk cross, as though by not looking at an approaching vehicle it makes is soft as a cloud.

Edited August 10, 2010 by LivinLOS

[soihok]

Well put.

I have become used to accepting that your "average rider" in Thailand will turn left to join a road from a soi without paying much attention to what is coming.

Quite amazing sometimes, I have nearly wiped out a scooter with three kids on that just shot straight across the road ,turning right, from behind a parked vehicle that was half blocking their exit.

I was driving a bleeding great Vigo as well so its not as if I was not visible, and I wasn't racing anything either.

[RusticCharm]

 

the ever comical old ladys who look the other way to speed walk cross, as though by not looking at an approaching vehicle it makes is soft as a cloud.

Yeah, classic. I had one walk out into the road in front of me carrying an umbrella to shield her from the sun. Only thing is, the sun was shining from the direction of oncoming traffic so she had the umbrella totally blocking her view of me approaching. Silly old bint nearly had a heart attack when I gave a loud blast of the horn a meter from her. Should've seen the look on her face . 

Made my day as I rode of after a few choice words. 

[Garry]

Well put.

I have become used to accepting that your "average rider" in Thailand will turn left to join a road from a soi without paying much attention to what is coming.

Quite amazing sometimes, I have nearly wiped out a scooter with three kids on that just shot straight across the road ,turning right, from behind a parked vehicle that was half blocking their exit.

I was driving a bleeding great Vigo as well so its not as if I was not visible, and I wasn't racing anything either.

Ah, that would be the thai no look right left turn, as opposed to the thai no look left right turn, as opposed to the thai no look etc et al............

[noahvail]

Well put.

I have become used to accepting that your "average rider" in Thailand will turn left to join a road from a soi without paying much attention to what is coming.

Quite amazing sometimes, I have nearly wiped out a scooter with three kids on that just shot straight across the road ,turning right, from behind a parked vehicle that was half blocking their exit.

I was driving a bleeding great Vigo as well so its not as if I was not visible, and I wasn't racing anything either.

Ah, that would be the thai no look right left turn, as opposed to the thai no look left right turn, as opposed to the thai no look etc et al............

It took me a while to discover for scooters that a left turn indicator on, meant a left turn, a right turn, continuing straight, slowing down, stopping, doing a u-turn....and my favourite, an 0-turn. And you wonder why we're hyper-vigilant? Can I have another cuppa coffee, please???

[Kf6vci]

"It" could happen to anyone, any time, any where. Cars pulling out into busy streets. Scooters coming from the sides, not looking and not bothering to mind the traffic. Even adults crossing the street, walking straight into one's path. As for dogs, I'm glad I never hit one.

When a crash is unavoidable, sit upright and try to fly over the car

Drivers often aren't even looking - you might get killed by someone en passant who then won't stop, of course.

Be careful out there!

Chris

[Bobr]

It is very unfortunate here that the Thais chose not to differentiate between small and large bikes and allow the latter on the highways, particularly around Bangkok. The big bikes really are safer on the highways where there is no cross traffic and the riders can get the thrill of going fast out of their system without seriously endangering anyone.

[Bobr]

Sorry double post

Edited August 13, 2010 by Bobr

[RusticCharm]

double post. mods delete

Edited August 15, 2010 by RusticCharm

[RusticCharm]

double treble post. mods delete.

C**ting KSC internet!

Edited August 15, 2010 by RusticCharm

[RusticCharm]

I see the biggest speed braggart is lying low in this thread.

Yeah, I know what you mean but look on the bright side. No more countless pictures of his new bike, 'girlfriend' (  ) or kids. 

[dave_boo]

I see the biggest speed braggart is lying low in this thread.

Yeah, I know what you mean but look on the bright side. No more countless pictures of his new bike, 'girlfriend' ( ) or kids.

I'll assume you weren't talking about me, but FYI I've hit (nearly) 160 tucked fully in and drafting a semi downhill on 1/32! If you're talking about whom I think you are, next time I'll hook a keeper strap to his bike and see if I can't get this little Ninja above the magic 100 mph mark!

[Lickey]

I ran a pan european construction company / employment agency with sites ranging from east germany, almost to poland, berlin, on one side and the belgian / french border on another.. Men were paid in cash (I would be carrying 250k - 400k euros in cash weekly) and were visitied every week.

It wasnt consistent year round, it would drop in the winter, but summer months were pure crazy. For a long period when I had a big berlin job, I would be up 4am on a thursday, do anything from 500 - 1000 kms around holland and belgium, go home (south holland) to shower, then drive overnight to berlin, meet the men, get a bar cheque from the client, cash it at his bank, and drive home friday night to get home early hours saturday, munching uppers and coffee and caning down those autobahns. That was a ballpark 2500kms in 48 hours and I did that week in week out for months. Add in the mon / tues starting new men on sites spread all over n europe and those are the kind of miles we put in, my car was my office and I worked 7 days a week 18 hours a day.

Fun times, fast cars, huge money, good game for a young guy.

When i have time, i look through older posts, this one caught my eye, i have travelled in Europe a lot, 38ton artics and fast bikes, now, to put the above post in perspective, 2.500ks in 48 hours is an average speed of nearly 53ks an hour, So? should the poster be driving for Audi at Le Mans? the winning Audi [with 3 drivers] done 5405ks in 24 hrs, average speed 225ks,, but hey, i like a laugh and a bit of BS now and then!!!

[LivinLOS]

I ran a pan european construction company / employment agency with sites ranging from east germany, almost to poland, berlin, on one side and the belgian / french border on another.. Men were paid in cash (I would be carrying 250k - 400k euros in cash weekly) and were visitied every week.

It wasnt consistent year round, it would drop in the winter, but summer months were pure crazy. For a long period when I had a big berlin job, I would be up 4am on a thursday, do anything from 500 - 1000 kms around holland and belgium, go home (south holland) to shower, then drive overnight to berlin, meet the men, get a bar cheque from the client, cash it at his bank, and drive home friday night to get home early hours saturday, munching uppers and coffee and caning down those autobahns. That was a ballpark 2500kms in 48 hours and I did that week in week out for months. Add in the mon / tues starting new men on sites spread all over n europe and those are the kind of miles we put in, my car was my office and I worked 7 days a week 18 hours a day.

Fun times, fast cars, huge money, good game for a young guy.

When i have time, i look through older posts, this one caught my eye, i have travelled in Europe a lot, 38ton artics and fast bikes, now, to put the above post in perspective, 2.500ks in 48 hours is an average speed of nearly 53ks an hour, So? should the poster be driving for Audi at Le Mans? the winning Audi [with 3 drivers] done 5405ks in 24 hrs, average speed 225ks,, but hey, i like a laugh and a bit of BS now and then!!!

Can doubt it all you like.. I remember doing my monthly expenses one summer month and figuring for the month I had been moving at nearly 20kph every hour of the month on average. As I said those 2 days a week were always special no sleep for 2 days and it isnt that hard to clock up distance if you just keep moving. Big difference between 50kph and 225kph.

Car I liked most for this job was my 850CSI beemer, but used plenty of others.