Thai Immigration Introduces Jail Time For Overstayers

[mrtoad]

Well in answer to your question, I was here a few years ago on a 1month tourist visa to visit my wife and daughters and became ill, needed an operation and spent 3 weeks in hospital, I came out with paperwork from the hospital confirming that I had been there for 3 weeks and the date I was released which was 2days overstay plus 1 more day to get to the airport and purchase another ticket.

I was stopped at passport control and taken into an office by security and informed of my offence, not a problem I think, I produced the paperwork from Bumlumgrad hospital confirming my stay with them, only to have my attention drawn to a very large sign in thai and english about no excuses for an overstay, the head man informed me that no paperwork from the hospital had any bearing on the matter, it was very simple, I HAD OVERSTAYED, I paid the relevant sum, passport duly stamped and on my way.

I am surprised, having had experience of this when a client of ours had an injury to a leg, which required some extra days being needed to stay before leaving. The hospital had filed out some paperwork, which was taken to the local immigration office - the officer said that the wording on the medical certificate needed to be changed before he could issue a free extension, so it went back was changed and an extension was granted. I think in the end though if you rock up at Swampy, you are just in the hands of the individual and how he is feeling that day. I have normally found Immigration in Bangkok and Kanchanaburi where I have lived to be more than helpful when sorting visa matters out - the airport lot, just look like a miserable bunch of BIB.

[filguy]

i cant find the source. still not in MFA site. i hope this is not true.

This is immigration policy, not MFA.

Immigration only makes some directives public, others are only internal. But we have it from a very good source and it has been confirmed by the top of immigration HQ.

But at least this should be posted in legit site like in MFA or in http://www.immigration.go.th

I cant understand why this has to be posted here even there is no clear document or public directive otherwise this is another thai gossip. hope this is not true.

[lopburi3]

Some might recall this same several days in jail policy was implemented for a short while last year at Bangkok Airport so expect this is a revival of that and it will now be policy nationwide. If a person has overstayed for an extended period they would like to check for wrongdoing before allowing departure and this time will allow a more accurate police check to be made.

[Beetlejuice]

Thai Immigration officers are loving this! This will allow them to extort money from foreigners upon their departure. Lets see, it should go something like this. "Sir, you overstay your Visa. Come with me." After they take you in the office. The negotiations start. "Since you are here over 21 days past your Visa. We must arrest you and take you to jail." Of course, the affected person will want to avoid this at any cost, so then, when the affected party asks what they can do to avoid going to jail? The answer will always be the same. How much you can give the Immigration officer that nabbed you. $$ and Thai corruption go hand in hand... Just open the door for them to do as they please.

It should not be up to the officer that catches the overstayer. It should be cut and dry for each offense. They should have exactly the same penalty for each offender depending on the length of their overstay, rather then leaving it up to the officer that detains the person. This is just an open door for CORRUPTION from Thailands Finest.

You are so right on with this one.

None of this is cut and dry, but rather the overstayers becomes the property of the police, their fate is purely at the discretion of the Immigration departments. Especially within the so called grey area, it seems between the 21 and 42 days period the opportunity is there for the Immigration department to extort the overstayer for any amount of money, these departments become a law amongst themselves. No court, no trial.

Why settle for the official 20000 baht when the unofficial cash amounts could be raised much higher. This policy of giving Immigration a freehand in these matters will give the police an enormous incentive to reel in visa overstayers. Obviously the announced jail sentences is not going to be deterrent against visa dodgers, but the thought of becoming the property and owned by the Immigration department might.

I am all for coming down hard on visa dodgers, but a least have some well defined rules of play and proper procedures.

The answer is, try not to fall into their web, consider the consequences what may happen to you in Thailand this third world country. Play it safe at all times, because as they said in the movie Alien; In Space no one can hear you scream.

[Mario2008]

The airport is not an immigration office, they cannot issue an extension of stay.

[soulboymark]

Can't see why some people are upset by this, about time really.

There really is no excuse for overstays of more than a week IMO, unless someone has a valid reason like a medical emergency which can sorted out anyhow. However, those that have a total disregard for the rules and are on long overstays already will probably just not bother at all and will only get caught if the police go looking for them. There are plenty of those long time over stayers around who have been on overstays of years - sure if the police were really bothered they would know where s significant number are.

Your assumption that all "over 1 week" overstayers who do not have a medical emergency have a disregard for the rules clearly makes no account for those of us who rarely leave because we're working and lose track of the dates. Those among us who need to keep a constant vigil on the expiry date of their visa will be largely unaffected in any case. But please remeber that some of us do work and we are busy and we don't leave very often so checking the dates in the passport is something that is easily overlooked. I think the new regulation of "over 21 days" is about right.

[Mario2008]

You are so right on with this one.

None of this is cut and dry, but rather the overstayers becomes the property of the police, their fate is purely at the discretion of the Immigration departments. Especially within the so called grey area, it seems between the 21 and 42 days period the opportunity is there for the Immigration department to extort the overstayer for any amount of money, these departments become a law amongst themselves. No court, no trial.

Why settle for the official 20000 baht when the unofficial cash amounts could be raised much higher. This policy of giving Immigration a freehand in these matters will give the police an enormous incentive to reel in visa overstayers. Obviously the announced jail sentences is not going to be deterrent against visa dodgers, but the thought of becoming the property and owned by the Immigration department might.

I am all for coming down hard on visa dodgers, but a least have some well defined rules of play and proper procedures.

The answer is, try not to fall into their web, consider the consequences what may happen to you in Thailand this third world country. Play it safe at all times, because as they said in the movie Alien; In Space no one can hear you scream.

You have the right to be brought before a judge. In case you refuse to pay the fine, that is what will be done.

[pisico]

<br />

<br />Hello!<br />what whould happen,when someone,short before the visa is runing out and the person  have to go to hospital?<br />same then normal overstaying,or how then will be the diffrence in the visa law?<br />who have the be informed first?<br />when it should not posible after a acsident or whatevver-?<br /><br />is a blacklist forever,or can also be removed,after a couple of years?<br />on internet i read some reports,that planing in the future,a visa for all countrys,like here in eu!<br />

<br /><br /><br />Well in answer to your question, I was here a few years ago on a 1month tourist visa to visit my wife and daughters and became ill, needed an operation and spent 3 weeks in hospital, I came out with paperwork from the hospital confirming that I had been there for 3 weeks and the date I was released which was 2days overstay plus 1 more day to get to the airport and purchase another ticket.<br /><br />I was stopped at passport control and taken into an office by security and informed of my offence, not a problem I think, I produced the paperwork from Bumlumgrad hospital confirming my stay with them, only to have my attention drawn to a very large sign in thai and english about no excuses for an overstay, the head man informed me that no paperwork from the hospital had any bearing on the matter, it was very simple, I HAD OVERSTAYED, I paid the relevant sum, passport duly stamped and on my way.<br />

<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />As we all with a working brain and aware of reality know: It's all about the money!!!!<br />So humanitarian they were in your case, and many other cases! They know themselves very well and know that the paperwork can be obtained after paying "Tea money" to someone at the hospital. Immigration is actually projecting. They know that anybody Thai or Farang, what they would do is to get any documents after paying the right amount of money. Are there any humanitarian compelling reasons to charge money to an over-stayer with legitimate and true reasons? No. Thais are all smiles because those smiles oftentimes are all about the money. Immigration is not the exception to the rule for sure. Edited September 24, 2010 by pisico

[neverdie]

You have the right to be brought before a judge. In case you refuse to pay the fine, that is what will be done.

If you don't mind waiting in Jail for a while, as no doubt you will be refused bail whilst your case is being placed in the list in a few months time

[Mario2008]

<br />

<br />Hello!<br />what whould happen,when someone,short before the visa is runing out and the person have to go to hospital?<br />same then normal overstaying,or how then will be the diffrence in the visa law?<br />who have the be informed first?<br />when it should not posible after a acsident or whatevver-?<br /><br />is a blacklist forever,or can also be removed,after a couple of years?<br />on internet i read some reports,that planing in the future,a visa for all countrys,like here in eu!<br />

<br /><br /><br />Well in answer to your question, I was here a few years ago on a 1month tourist visa to visit my wife and daughters and became ill, needed an operation and spent 3 weeks in hospital, I came out with paperwork from the hospital confirming that I had been there for 3 weeks and the date I was released which was 2days overstay plus 1 more day to get to the airport and purchase another ticket.<br /><br />I was stopped at passport control and taken into an office by security and informed of my offence, not a problem I think, I produced the paperwork from Bumlumgrad hospital confirming my stay with them, only to have my attention drawn to a very large sign in thai and english about no excuses for an overstay, the head man informed me that no paperwork from the hospital had any bearing on the matter, it was very simple, I HAD OVERSTAYED, I paid the relevant sum, passport duly stamped and on my way.<br />

<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />As we all with a working brain and aware of reality know: It's all about the money!!!!<br />So humanitarian they were in your case, and many other cases! They know themselves very well and know that the paperwork can be obtained after paying "Tea money" to someone at the hospital. Immigration is actually projecting. They know that anybody Thai or Farang, what they would do is to get any documents after paying the right amount of money. Are there any humanitarian compelling reasons to charge money to an over-stayer with legitimate and true reasons? No. Thais are all smiles because those smiles oftentimes are all about the money. Immigration is not the exception to the rule for sure.

If there are compelling reasons you can get an extension of stay. The point is that you cannot just decide yourself to stay longer than you are allowed to

[stub]

Can't see why some people are upset by this, about time really.

There really is no excuse for overstays of more than a week IMO, unless someone has a valid reason like a medical emergency which can sorted out anyhow. However, those that have a total disregard for the rules and are on long overstays already will probably just not bother at all and will only get caught if the police go looking for them. There are plenty of those long time over stayers around who have been on overstays of years - sure if the police were really bothered they would know where s significant number are.

Even though very few people will be affected, I suspect people are upset because the messed up system is getting worse and more tangled. Immigration, Dept. of Labor etc. are implementing a maze of messed up and antiquated laws. Someone in these areas sees a problem and they twiddle with the processes in an attempt to address the problem. They don't have the authority to address the problem correctly, so the solution is always flawed creating further problems that require further twiddling and there is a hole in my bucket.

This is just another example. Immigration got pissed at the long term overstayers laughing at them. They can't charge more than 20k Baht to dissuade them. They can't throw them in jail for an extended period (a judge has to do that). So they decide that it is now going to take a day or two to process the paperwork, during which time you are stuck in jail. So no attempt at a correct solution - lobbying the lawmakers to change the penalties so they affect the people they want to affect. Instead one more gotcha in the process, because someone with no authority to change the law wants to change the law.

[Pib]

This enforcement change is actually going to require some people to look at the permitted to stay until date in their passport, learn how to use a calendar, and to comply with the law.

[Mario2008]

You have the right to be brought before a judge. In case you refuse to pay the fine, that is what will be done.

If you don't mind waiting in Jail for a while, as no doubt you will be refused bail whilst your case is being placed in the list in a few months time

Immigration will take some time to investigate your case and look at things like if you where working illegally. But once that is finished, going before a judge can be very swift (next day).

[johnefallis]

I think neighboring countries will have another way for you to get visa on demand w/o a Thai exit stamp and just leave from there...Sure glad I don't have to go through immigration when I exit the U.S.

[Eureka]

Would this not make the overstayers decide to stay even longer instead of actually leaving. If you had an overstayer that was planning to leave and go home, what incentive does he/she have to leave now? Amazing how people react to these things. People act as if Thailand is the only place on earth that has people overstay their visa. Lets see this for what it is...BS! Could you imagine if the UK or USA jailed an illegal immigrant as he was trying to LEAVE with the fine money in hand. A society is judged on how they treat the poor and incarcerated.

SInce when can you offer ANY official in the UK or USA to pay a fine rather than the jail time prescribed by Law. The penalty is now for Jail time so your argument is null and void.

Long term overstayers are immediately incaserated in Australia regardless of money offered to officials. The offender, yes they have broken the Law, will then face a Magistrate (Judge) who will then apply any sentence required after taking into consideration mitigating factors.

Thailand has the right to protect their borders according to their own laws. A VISA is an invitation to come to a country and not carte blanc to ignore their legal system.

Any person travelling from a Western country to Thailand could not be considered poor when compared to the poor of Thailand and as with any venture taken it is your responsibility to be aware of local conditions when travelling and that includes VISA requirements. Do not cry "FOUL" due to you own ignorance of the law.

[JetsetBkk]

Even though very few people will be affected, I suspect people are upset because the messed up system is getting worse and more tangled.

<snip>

I don't believe it is changing at all as it has always been the law:

"Section 81 : Any alien who stay in the Kingdom without permission or with permission expired or revoked shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding two years or a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht or both."

They are merely threatening to enforce it.

Edit:

This enforcement change is actually going to require some people to look at the permitted to stay until date in their passport, learn how to use a calendar, and to comply with the law.

Exactly.

Edited September 24, 2010 by JetsetBkk

[Mario2008]

You have the right to be brought before a judge. In case you refuse to pay the fine, that is what will be done.

If you don't mind waiting in Jail for a while, as no doubt you will be refused bail whilst your case is being placed in the list in a few months time

Immigration will take some time to investigate your case and look at things like if you where working illegally. But once that is finished, going before a judge can be very swift (next day).

See also an article by Chavalit Finch and Partners, on their website: http://www.chavalitfinchlaw.com/publications/publications.html

July 2010, part XIX.

[HahSipBaht]

Hey, quick question!

My stamp is good until the 15th of October, my actual flight leaves on the 16th of October.. 1 day overstay.

I am aware there is a 500baht fine. But where do I pay this, at the same place where I fill in and drop off my disembarkation card?

thanks!

[Mario2008]

Can't see why some people are upset by this, about time really.

There really is no excuse for overstays of more than a week IMO, unless someone has a valid reason like a medical emergency which can sorted out anyhow. However, those that have a total disregard for the rules and are on long overstays already will probably just not bother at all and will only get caught if the police go looking for them. There are plenty of those long time over stayers around who have been on overstays of years - sure if the police were really bothered they would know where s significant number are.

Even though very few people will be affected, I suspect people are upset because the messed up system is getting worse and more tangled. Immigration, Dept. of Labor etc. are implementing a maze of messed up and antiquated laws. Someone in these areas sees a problem and they twiddle with the processes in an attempt to address the problem. They don't have the authority to address the problem correctly, so the solution is always flawed creating further problems that require further twiddling and there is a hole in my bucket.

This is just another example. Immigration got pissed at the long term overstayers laughing at them. They can't charge more than 20k Baht to dissuade them. They can't throw them in jail for an extended period (a judge has to do that). So they decide that it is now going to take a day or two to process the paperwork, during which time you are stuck in jail. So no attempt at a correct solution - lobbying the lawmakers to change the penalties so they affect the people they want to affect. Instead one more gotcha in the process, because someone with no authority to change the law wants to change the law.

The point is they don't have to change the law as they are operating within the law and have the required authority.

During the time you are held they can make the decision to send you to a judge for a criminal conviction. In circumstances they will do that.

[hjvdhoef]

Why give an amnesty - if you overstay then you have broken the law. You do not do it accidentally you set out to do it so take the punishment. I am all for the law being applied fairly and firmly. A period in the slammer would at least go some way to making sure these people do not do it again but I think it should be a day for day punishment overstay 50 days then 50 days inside. Blacklisting is pointless as it only ensures that the passport does not return to the kingdom it does nothing to stop the person getting a new passport and re-entering under a new name etc etc.

As soon as Thailand does something positriver everyone thinks they do it for money - well I can asure you that most countries have strict immigration laws and they apply them - Thailand tolerates foreigners and we should never forget we are mere visitors in the kingdom and should act accordingly.

Put them in the slammer day for day.

if you overstay then you have broken the law......... Did you hear about corruption?Some people get a good pay rise when you overstay.Money is the key here.

[Mario2008]

Hey, quick question!

My stamp is good until the 15th of October, my actual flight leaves on the 16th of October.. 1 day overstay.

I am aware there is a 500baht fine. But where do I pay this, at the same place where I fill in and drop off my disembarkation card?

thanks!

Yes,they will take it from there and send you to an office. But for one day overstay at the airport no fine is collected. They will mark your passport that you had an overstay.

Don't know how this new policy will effect people returning to Thailand who had an overstay. So far it had no consequences.

[Patsycat]

A nice man takes you into an office in the Airport. I know - you pay the fine and on your way.

It may have changed, but 4 years ago i changed my ticket to stay for an extra week and overstayed.

I was shaking like a leaf leaving, but as i had the ticket it was ok.

One week is nothing compared to months!!! In that case, they may as well take me out in a box!!!

Edited September 24, 2010 by Patsycat

[HahSipBaht]

Hey, quick question!

My stamp is good until the 15th of October, my actual flight leaves on the 16th of October.. 1 day overstay.

I am aware there is a 500baht fine. But where do I pay this, at the same place where I fill in and drop off my disembarkation card?

thanks!

Yes,they will take it from there and send you to an office. But for one day overstay at the airport no fine is collected. They will mark your passport that you had an overstay.

Don't know how this new policy will effect people returning to Thailand who had an overstay. So far it had no consequences.

Thats no good, I hate this kind of stuff, is there somewhere I can go and get approval for an 1 day overstay in order to avoid this circumstance. I visit thailand twice a year, and I dont want any overstay remorse!

[JSL]

Korea has allowed for 5 year multiple entry visa for more than 20 years now. Compare their economic progress to Thailands. Enough said.

[taff33]

Can't see why some people are upset by this, about time really.

There really is no excuse for overstays of more than a week IMO, unless someone has a valid reason like a medical emergency which can sorted out anyhow. However, those that have a total disregard for the rules and are on long overstays already will probably just not bother at all and will only get caught if the police go looking for them. There are plenty of those long time over stayers around who have been on overstays of years - sure if the police were really bothered they would know where s significant number are.

Your assumption that all "over 1 week" overstayers who do not have a medical emergency have a disregard for the rules clearly makes no account for those of us who rarely leave because we're working and lose track of the dates. Those among us who need to keep a constant vigil on the expiry date of their visa will be largely unaffected in any case. But please remeber that some of us do work and we are busy and we don't leave very often so checking the dates in the passport is something that is easily overlooked. I think the new regulation of "over 21 days" is about right.

Why do you need a to keep 'a constant vigil on the expiry date' all you need to do is go to the calendar on your mobile(if you have one) and make note on it it then remines you

[beechguy]

Hey, quick question!

My stamp is good until the 15th of October, my actual flight leaves on the 16th of October.. 1 day overstay.

I am aware there is a 500baht fine. But where do I pay this, at the same place where I fill in and drop off my disembarkation card?

thanks!

Yes,they will take it from there and send you to an office. But for one day overstay at the airport no fine is collected. They will mark your passport that you had an overstay.

Don't know how this new policy will effect people returning to Thailand who had an overstay. So far it had no consequences.

Thats no good, I hate this kind of stuff, is there somewhere I can go and get approval for an 1 day overstay in order to avoid this circumstance. I visit thailand twice a year, and I dont want any overstay remorse!

If you want, you can apply for an extension at an immigration office.

[Mario2008]

Thats no good, I hate this kind of stuff, is there somewhere I can go and get approval for an 1 day overstay in order to avoid this circumstance. I visit thailand twice a year, and I dont want any overstay remorse!

You can get an extension of 7 days at immigration at Cheang Wattana for 1,900 baht. You will need your ticket and a photo.

Location:

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/location1.html

[jbrewer]

A welcome move. Let us just hope they stick with it.

now....lets wait for the "if it wasn't for me, Thailand would fall in a heap" replies.

A welcome move, indeed.

x 2

[rafval]

never understood the fixation some farangs have about overstayers, I personally am more worried about cases like the drunk farang that went thru a roundabout the wrong way in Pattaya and killed several people and bought his way out with the help of his Thai wifes police connections, probably one of the folks here bitching about overstayers

[Mario2008]

1 post deleted as off-topic. This is not about visas, but about overstay.