American Jumps To His Death

[Norcan]

A sad story. But a bit of a long shot to blame Embassy officials for not helping when we don't know if he even sought their assistance. Maybe he was one of those guys who doesn't want help, or refuses to seek it. Maybe he chose to be here and on the streets (heck I've seen it happen back home, so it probably happens here). Or yes, maybe he asked and they refused. But I don't think we can automatically assume that is what has happened.

Jeff was offered help; but flat-out turned it down.

He had terrible problems with his lower legs and feet, they were awful to look at and must have been extremely painful. THB2,000 would have fixed it, but he wouldn't accept it.

Very sad state of affairs.

[simon43]

Are any members interested in forming some sort of informal advocacy/support group for ex-Pats down on their luck?

I know that the embassies can get involved where someone has become mentally ill, and can escort them back to their home country, but presumably only after a relative pays for all costs.

Then there are The Samaritans in Thailand. But I believe they primarily help Thai speakers, (someone correct me if this is incorrect).

I am sure here are any foreigners in Thailand who are down on their luck, or depressed, and who might consider suicide, because they feel that they have no other options. As they say, suicide is a final solution to a temporary problem, and that final action might be avoided if the person was able to talk with a fellow 'farang' and work through their problems.

Helping others in these types of circumstances is not about giving money - it is about giving a little time for others.

I for one, would be happy to give up some of my time if it helped another person in circumstances as Jeff perhaps found himself. Anyone else?

Simon

[IanForbes]

Many are helped all the time. They just don't use the help wisely. I don't see anything wrong with suicide.

That's a personal opinion. One of my best friend comitted suicide a couple of years ago and I took it as a personal failure, I wasn't able to help ...

I come from "socialist" Europe, I guess it's my own problem ....

Why would it be a personal failure for you? It was your friends choice. Maybe he's a peace now.

I helped a sociopathic son in law to a point where I couldn't do it anymore. And, he wasn't a child (22 years old). It would take several pages to list all the things I did to try and help him.The young man is tall, dark and handsome. He's also a brilliant artist. But there is only so much I could take of his smashing my home and stealing my stuff to sell for drugs and steroids. He wouldn't even acknowledge what he did to my marriage with his mother. After his mother took off and left him with me I had to get the police to move him out of my home. He's in his mid thirties now and still hasn't worked more than a day at any job.

You can't get into someone else's brain. All you can do is offer some help to better themselves, but most often they won't use it.

Now I just frustrate myself trying to help Thais who most often continually throw away what ever advice and financial aid I give them.

[WarpSpeed]

Can you please explain what would stop anyone from going to the Embassy and saying "I am broke. Pay for my flight home!"?

We currently have multiple threads on TV running on how to illegally claim social benefits back home while abroad in Thailand.

Yes, but a Ticket home would mean a ticket home to what ?

Many Farangs burn all bridges in their own countries, they would arrive home completely broke, massive debts waiting, nowhere to live, no friends, no Family, no Job, no hope and no foreseeable future, combine this with a feeling of total failure, utter despair, emotional and financial ruin, suicide can be, and is, a way out for some.

:jap: :jap:

[WarpSpeed]

When I first read this forum I expected to see some kind of solidarity between "farangs".

I didn't find any.

Don't blame your country, your embassy or your consulate.

How many people did you help today ?

If you need help tomorrow, remember how many people you did help yesterday.

I have! Sent a destitute elderly Aussie back home when his own embassy labeled him a sex tourist (which was not the case I knew him long enough to understand that he was just a naive, lonely old man who got bilked out of his life savings and being slowly starved to death by the Thai's he had as business partners). We were/are doing our best to keep our own heads above water but human compassion had to take priority...

I have to say so far we've paid the price and made serious sacrfices for our generosity but it was still the right thing to do..

[WarpSpeed]

Can you please explain what would stop anyone from going to the Embassy and saying "I am broke. Pay for my flight home!"?

We currently have multiple threads on TV running on how to illegally claim social benefits back home while abroad in Thailand.

Yes, but a Ticket home would mean a ticket home to what ?

Many Farangs burn all bridges in their own countries, they would arrive home completely broke, massive debts waiting, nowhere to live, no friends, no Family, no Job, no hope and no foreseeable future, combine this with a feeling of total failure, utter despair, emotional and financial ruin, suicide can be, and is, a way out for some.

What?

Anyone planning to leave Thailand or who came here as a backpacker can claim that they are broke and need a free ticket home, as some here are advocating the governments should provide to them. I am simply pointing out how such a policy would be abused.

So what?? At what cost?? A few $100,000 lost at most?? Not enough reason not to offer to those who are in real need and let the few scam artists love with themselves it's still better to error on the side of compassion IMO..

[MrRichard2009]

Are any members interested in forming some sort of informal advocacy/support group for ex-Pats down on their luck?

I know that the embassies can get involved where someone has become mentally ill, and can escort them back to their home country, but presumably only after a relative pays for all costs.

Then there are The Samaritans in Thailand. But I believe they primarily help Thai speakers, (someone correct me if this is incorrect).

I am sure here are any foreigners in Thailand who are down on their luck, or depressed, and who might consider suicide, because they feel that they have no other options. As they say, suicide is a final solution to a temporary problem, and that final action might be avoided if the person was able to talk with a fellow 'farang' and work through their problems.

Helping others in these types of circumstances is not about giving money - it is about giving a little time for others.

I for one, would be happy to give up some of my time if it helped another person in circumstances as Jeff perhaps found himself. Anyone else?

Simon

I offer to escort them to the top of the roof with my vid cam and make em famous ........ free superman suit as well !

I know, I know, don't feed the troll, but l think you have a bigger problem than the diseased. You take care.

Actually I have a lot of respect for people like this Jeff guy, he was a loser for a long long time and decided rather than being a burden on others he made a solution fitting for his situation, I wish more bums and dopers and all others who can't make a life on their own would do the right thing as Jeff did. I don't feel sorry for people like him I respect them for doing the right thing and would encourage others to follow in his responsible decision if they were as ill suited for life as he was.

[WarpSpeed]

Can you please explain what would stop anyone from going to the Embassy and saying "I am broke. Pay for my flight home!"?

We currently have multiple threads on TV running on how to illegally claim social benefits back home while abroad in Thailand.

Yes, but a Ticket home would mean a ticket home to what ?

Many Farangs burn all bridges in their own countries, they would arrive home completely broke, massive debts waiting, nowhere to live, no friends, no Family, no Job, no hope and no foreseeable future, combine this with a feeling of total failure, utter despair, emotional and financial ruin, suicide can be, and is, a way out for some.

What?

Anyone planning to leave Thailand or who came here as a backpacker can claim that they are broke and need a free ticket home, as some here are advocating the governments should provide to them. I am simply pointing out how such a policy would be abused.

Try looking at all the thousands of foreigners going to farang land with sod all and are taken care of from the word go. I KNOW cos l was involved with supplying stuff. The odd guy with a problem here is a piss in the ocean to the cost their native tax payer is paying for these people.

I find myself in a very unfamiliar position here of totally agreeing and even unintentionally echoing you on this topic.. +1 back at ya!

[WarpSpeed]

Are any members interested in forming some sort of informal advocacy/support group for ex-Pats down on their luck? It seems like we could be doing more? I have limited organizational/leadership skills, and no experience in social work, but would be more than willing to contribute my time in order to help people like Jeff. Comments? Do organizations like this exist?

I guess my first steps would be talking with embassy staff to see what they might recommend. In Jeff's case I might have tried to track down family, and try to get him re-patriated.

If they exist they're the best kept secrets as I was seeking one myself a few years ago in relation to the Aussie I spoke of and our own personal situation...

[WarpSpeed]

aplogies if this appears an unwelcome thread diversion but it is about depression and failing to cope.

Many things go through my mind when reading a sad tale such as this.

Were depressed back in the UK 12 years ago for about a year.

Popping seroxat every day to keep the demons in my head that tried to take over me at bay.

Problems inside family and wife pushed me to looking at the pill bottles and a large whisky on more than a few occasions.

When I put my head on the pillow at night did not care if I woke in the morning. Just wanted all my worries to go away.

Job kept me sane, now seperated from the ex, work out in Asia (Offshore) live thailand 6 years and have a dream of a partner.

That poor guy will have woken up and said today is the day............. He was probaply smiling since his torment was over.

3 years ago a friend from my old town came out here. Met a girl and married her. Bought a house then he was kicked out?

H went back the UK, max'd the credit cards, took out bank loans from a load of banks/lenders. Came back out here and bought a bar. The rest we all know.

Told a few of us he was going back the UK, He had lost the bar and ended up sleeping in one of the girls room, near walking street. He just vanished one day. Thought he had went back the UK, but his son had never seen him. To this day no one knows where he is?? Just vanished without trace??

Courageous admission :jap: ....

[WarpSpeed]

aplogies if this appears an unwelcome thread diversion but it is about depression and failing to cope.

Many things go through my mind when reading a sad tale such as this.

Were depressed back in the UK 12 years ago for about a year.

Popping seroxat every day to keep the demons in my head that tried to take over me at bay.

Problems inside family and wife pushed me to looking at the pill bottles and a large whisky on more than a few occasions.

When I put my head on the pillow at night did not care if I woke in the morning. Just wanted all my worries to go away.

Job kept me sane, now seperated from the ex, work out in Asia (Offshore) live thailand 6 years and have a dream of a partner.

That poor guy will have woken up and said today is the day............. He was probaply smiling since his torment was over.

3 years ago a friend from my old town came out here. Met a girl and married her. Bought a house then he was kicked out?

H went back the UK, max'd the credit cards, took out bank loans from a load of banks/lenders. Came back out here and bought a bar. The rest we all know.

Told a few of us he was going back the UK, He had lost the bar and ended up sleeping in one of the girls room, near walking street. He just vanished one day. Thought he had went back the UK, but his son had never seen him. To this day no one knows where he is?? Just vanished without trace??

For sure life has it's twists and turns, some can cope, some cannot, unless you have been there it is hard for some to understand. I always wondered how can anyone jump under a train or jump off a roof, l thought it was daft BUT when l lost my wife l learnt a big lesson and will NEVER talk a bad word about anyone who takes his own life..

Wow!!! You lost a wife T/A? Passed or divorce? In either case but most especially if she passed my sincere condolences I lost my wife too shortly before I came here.. Small world..

[WarpSpeed]

A sad story. But a bit of a long shot to blame Embassy officials for not helping when we don't know if he even sought their assistance. Maybe he was one of those guys who doesn't want help, or refuses to seek it. Maybe he chose to be here and on the streets (heck I've seen it happen back home, so it probably happens here). Or yes, maybe he asked and they refused. But I don't think we can automatically assume that is what has happened.

Don't see anybody doing that BUT I can speak from personal experience they fall far short of helping when requested and especially for a single man on his own..

[Chunky1]

Can you please explain what would stop anyone from going to the Embassy and saying "I am broke. Pay for my flight home!"?

We currently have multiple threads on TV running on how to illegally claim social benefits back home while abroad in Thailand.

Yes, but a Ticket home would mean a ticket home to what ?

Many Farangs burn all bridges in their own countries, they would arrive home completely broke, massive debts waiting, nowhere to live, no friends, no Family, no Job, no hope and no foreseeable future, combine this with a feeling of total failure, utter despair, emotional and financial ruin, suicide can be, and is, a way out for some.

What?

Anyone planning to leave Thailand or who came here as a backpacker can claim that they are broke and need a free ticket home, as some here are advocating the governments should provide to them. I am simply pointing out how such a policy would be abused.

So what?? At what cost?? A few $100,000 lost at most?? Not enough reason not to offer to those who are in real need and let the few scam artists love with themselves it's still better to error on the side of compassion IMO..

Are you joking? Half the losers on here will be requesting a free plane ticket home for Xmas.

[WarpSpeed]

I offer to escort them to the top of the roof with my vid cam and make em famous ........ free superman suit as well !

I know, I know, don't feed the troll, but l think you have a bigger problem than the diseased. You take care.

Actually I have a lot of respect for people like this Jeff guy, he was a loser for a long long time and decided rather than being a burden on others he made a solution fitting for his situation, I wish more bums and dopers and all others who can't make a life on their own would do the right thing as Jeff did. I don't feel sorry for people like him I respect them for doing the right thing and would encourage others to follow in his responsible decision if they were as ill suited for life as he was.

Karma's a bitch Rich...

[WarpSpeed]

Yes, but a Ticket home would mean a ticket home to what ?

Many Farangs burn all bridges in their own countries, they would arrive home completely broke, massive debts waiting, nowhere to live, no friends, no Family, no Job, no hope and no foreseeable future, combine this with a feeling of total failure, utter despair, emotional and financial ruin, suicide can be, and is, a way out for some.

What?

Anyone planning to leave Thailand or who came here as a backpacker can claim that they are broke and need a free ticket home, as some here are advocating the governments should provide to them. I am simply pointing out how such a policy would be abused.

So what?? At what cost?? A few $100,000 lost at most?? Not enough reason not to offer to those who are in real need and let the few scam artists love with themselves it's still better to error on the side of compassion IMO..

Are you joking? Half the losers on here will be requesting a free plane ticket home for Xmas.

No I'm not joking, not a topic to joke about though it may seem so for some. A system to weed out the unwarranted recipients is easy enough to institute...

Edited November 9, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[taxout]

The US State Department doesn't seem to like to advertise the service, but they will loan funds to destitute Americans for direct return to the US when they demonstrate they have no other funding sources to turn to.

"ACS [American Citizen Services] also approves repatriation loans to pay for destitute Americans' direct return to the U.S. Each year over $500,000 is loaned to destitute Americans."

http://www.travel.state.gov/travel/about/about_1245.html

[WarpSpeed]

The US State Department doesn't seem to like to advertise the service, but they will loan funds to destitute Americans for direct return to the US when they demonstrate they have no other funding sources to turn to.

"ACS [American Citizen Services] also approves repatriation loans to pay for destitute Americans' direct return to the U.S. Each year over $500,000 is loaned to destitute Americans."

http://www.travel.state.gov/travel/about/about_1245.html

Well that's what the website officially states but I can personally tell you that the reality is far different and that figure of $500,000 dollars has not changed for several years ironically making it seem like far more of a PR campaign then any thing else or a very low ceiling in the grand scheme of things world wide...

[GM1955]

Are you joking? Half the losers on here will be requesting a free plane ticket home for Xmas.

Agreed.

I know guys on full benefits in UK that come out to Thailand 3 times a year, one has even bought some land and has built a house in Isaan, this is a guy that has never done a days work and paid tax in his life, he's been on benefits all of his working life.

This same guy has a friend that has done the same thing, of course they work also, but its cash in hand, no tax, and everything is paid by the UK government, including his house !!

One guy I know is on full benefits in UK and makes on average 700 to 800 Pounds a week selling on ebay, he spends months at a time in Pattaya living the good life and even has people paying to stay in the Flat that he has been given by and paid for by the UK Government in London.

Suicidals from Uk should really stop and think, if you arrive back in the UK with nothing, you'll have minor problems, so arrive back with nothing and get arrested for anything that will get you prison time, Air Rage for example is a tried and trusted offence for the skint UK guy wanting some quick benefits when he arrives back in UK.

Air Rage is usually dealt with by a Magistrates court and a short custodial sentence is given, be careful though, make sure you do enough to get a short prison sentence, but not enough to get a real problem. If it goes to Crown court you could be in for a longer sentence than you bargained for, so get it dealt with as soon as you can by pleading guilty at magistrates court.

All of the supposed debts mean nothing, you will never have to pay them, you just wont be able to open a bank account and get credit cards, although you will be able to open an account, I mean, you have to have your Social Security payments paid into an account don't you ?

Don't suicide guys, just get back home and get put back in the system.

Edited November 9, 2010 by GM1955

[GM1955]

I think you and others have know idea what some of us are talking about.

We are not talking about £ notes.

I'm talking about suicidal guys that really have nothing to fear going back to UK as everything will be taken care of.

What are you talking about ?

[WarpSpeed]

Are you joking? Half the losers on here will be requesting a free plane ticket home for Xmas.

Agreed.

I know guys on full benefits in UK that come out to Thailand 3 times a year, one has even bought some land and has built a house in Isaan, this is a guy that has never done a days work and paid tax in his life, he's been on benefits all of his working life.

This same guy has a friend that has done the same thing, of course they work also, but its cash in hand, no tax, and everything is paid by the UK government, including his house !!

One guy I know is on full benefits in UK and makes on average 700 to 800 Pounds a week selling on ebay, he spends months at a time in Pattaya living the good life and even has people paying to stay in the Flat that he has been given by and paid for by the UK Government in London.

Suicidals from Uk should really stop and think, if you arrive back in the UK with nothing, you'll have minor problems, so arrive back with nothing and get arrested for anything that will get you prison time, Air Rage for example is a tried and trusted offence for the skint UK guy wanting some quick benefits when he arrives back in UK.

All of the supposed debts mean nothing, you will never have to pay them, you just wont be able to open a bank account and get credit cards, although you will be able to open an account, I mean, you have to have your Social Security payments paid into an account don't you ?

Don't suicide guys, just get back home and get put back in the system.

I think you and others have know idea what some of us are talking about.

We are not talking about £ notes.

And even still he's but one poor example so the rest of the worth while victims who've generally been good citizens and taxpayers but have one spate of bad luck or unforeseen misfortune should suffer for one or even a thousand scam artists such as the above mentioned tosser??? Sorry....Empty argument..

[Chunky1]

The US State Department doesn't seem to like to advertise the service, but they will loan funds to destitute Americans for direct return to the US when they demonstrate they have no other funding sources to turn to.

"ACS [American Citizen Services] also approves repatriation loans to pay for destitute Americans' direct return to the U.S. Each year over $500,000 is loaned to destitute Americans."

http://www.travel.state.gov/travel/about/about_1245.html

Well, I am sure at least $15,000 of that went to people who actually needed it.

[WarpSpeed]

The US State Department doesn't seem to like to advertise the service, but they will loan funds to destitute Americans for direct return to the US when they demonstrate they have no other funding sources to turn to.

"ACS [American Citizen Services] also approves repatriation loans to pay for destitute Americans' direct return to the U.S. Each year over $500,000 is loaned to destitute Americans."

http://www.travel.state.gov/travel/about/about_1245.html

Well, I am sure at least $15,000 of that went to people who actually needed it.

Hardly................It's not a gift by any means.....

[Chunky1]

The American welfare system is even more lucrative.

Yeah, it's a loan. I wonder how much of it has been paid back.

[GM1955]

I think you and others have know idea what some of us are talking about.

We are not talking about £ notes.

I'm talking about suicidal guys that really have nothing to fear going back to UK as everything will be taken care of.

What are you talking about ?

The guy is American, etc.

OK fair enough, but he can still get arrested for Air Rage in a decent European country and be taken care of !

Have you seen the Jails in Norway and Sweden ??

Much better than 500 baht per Night rooms in Pattaya !!

[Chunky1]

Btw, I am not saying that people shouldn't be charitable to these types, I am simply saying that government welfare systems always end up being abused and inspire laziness, thus I can't blame the UK office for not helping.

Since there are so many concerned in this thread does anyone here know of any other loss souls that TransAm and Warp can pay for to get home?

[GM1955]

Btw, I am not saying that people shouldn't be charitable to these types, I am simply saying that government welfare systems always end up being abused and inspire laziness, thus I can't blame the UK office for not helping.

Since there are so many concerned in this thread does anyone here know of any other loss souls that TransAm and Warp can pay for to get home?

Or for me to fly Business instead of Economy.

[WarpSpeed]

Btw, I am not saying that people shouldn't be charitable to these types, I am simply saying that government welfare systems always end up being abused and inspire laziness, thus I can't blame the UK office for not helping.

Since there are so many concerned in this thread does anyone here know of any other loss souls that TransAm and Warp can pay for to get home?

Oh dear. No hope for some but l hope they take care.

And it's LOST souls. ( sorry about the grammar thing but for those who are OBVIOUSLY right about everything in their thoughts etc, just pointing it out ).

Well stated....

[WarpSpeed]

The American welfare system is even more lucrative.

Yeah, it's a loan. I wonder how much of it has been paid back.

Sure it is, don't make me go racial on ya to wake you out of your oblivious stupor......

[metisdead]

Btw, I am not saying that people shouldn't be charitable to these types, I am simply saying that government welfare systems always end up being abused and inspire laziness, thus I can't blame the UK office for not helping.

Since there are so many concerned in this thread does anyone here know of any other loss souls that TransAm and Warp can pay for to get home?

The bloke is AMERICAN, god it's difficult.

Yea, for some, reading comprehension is difficult.

We'll likely never know the whole story, however, I hope the fellow is at peace with himself now. :jap:

[manarak]

Nobody gives a hoot about these people when they're alive, but suddenly everybody is concerned when they're dead.

Yep, truer words were never spoken....I might add though instead of "concerned" when they're dead I'd use the term suddenly compassionate...

I'd even go a step further and say that if he had for example come on here and sought out help I can just imagine the lambasting he'd a gotten about his being a loser, tosser in life etc. he'd just have off'd himself a bit sooner is all ...

If he was living rough for three years I wonder how the BIB never picked him up or imigration ?

It seems too many of us these days have expectations of our embassies beyond reasonable measures.

I think booking such guys on flights home using empty seats is not "beyond reasonable" especially as illegal migrants are booked on charter flights back to their country.

It seems governments have a greater responsibility for illegal foreigners than for looking after their own people.

It is just a disgrace - one more.