Do You Think The Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Were Good?

[Jingthing]

Forgetting the obvious corruption issues, bottom line do you think the decisions were good or bad, objectively, if possible?

Personally, I understand the Russia decision.

Regarding the choice of Qatar, President Obama called it the wrong choice, but I would go further and call it ridiculous.

What do you think?

Edited December 4, 2010 by Jingthing

[smokie36]

Much as I loath the English for not including us in their bid it was ridiculous that they received only 2 votes. Had Russia won over England on the last vote based on bringing the World Cup to a new country...and in large measure politically to Eastern Europe no one could complain. But 2 votes???

The clincher is the Qatar decision which is the most ridiculous nonsense ever and must have seen many millions of petrochemical dollars already hit Swiss bank accounts. 50C in the shade for the afternoon games....if Scotland make the tournament we'll just send a team of corner shop owners to play....with a nod to skin cancer concerns.

EDIT: Re Qatar.....Workers rights....women's rights....alcohol issues....!

Edited December 4, 2010 by smokie36

[jombom]

Voted yes for Russia and no for Qatar.

It is nice to see Russia join the rest of the world, and just simply meeting the ordinary followers of sport, will be good for the Russian people.

The Qatar question is pure crazy. The idea that aircon stadiums can be built, then dismantled, and re-erected in another country, is absolute insanity (and this is Sustainability ---- really ?????). This venue needs to be shared with with Abu Dhabi, Dubai, and maybe Bahrain, to mention a few of the Emirates.

[mrbojangles]

Had Russia won over England on the last vote based on bringing the World Cup to a new country...and in large measure politically to Eastern Europe no one could complain. But 2 votes???

Yep

The clincher is the Qatar decision which is the most ridiculous nonsense ever

And yep again.

[carmine]

Is this a serious thread or is the OP taking the piss?

[chickenslegs]

Is this a serious thread or is the OP taking the piss?

That is the next poll.

[Jingthing]

Is this a serious thread or is the OP taking the piss?

No sex please, we're British!

[smokie36]

Is this a serious thread or is the OP taking the piss?

No sex please, we're British!

Careful JT don;t mock the English!,,,,,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr9qX9k1Y98

[salty]

2018

Russia: Bad decision. Racism is rife there but FIFA only pay lip service to Kick Out Racism. I think their banners should have the word <deleted>: Kick Out Racism. In this day and age nearly all see people as footballers irrespective of colour.

2022

Qatar: Is the Pope a Catholic?

[Jingthing]

2018

Russia: Bad decision. Racism is rife there but FIFA only pay lip service to Kick Out Racism. I think their banners should have the word <deleted>: Kick Out Racism. In this day and age nearly all see people as footballers irrespective of colour.

2022

Qatar: Is the Pope a Catholic?

Yes I understand raciscm is rife in Russia, but maybe they can benefit from the anti-racism message more than perfect countries like the USA and England?

[Moonrakers]

2018

Russia: Bad decision. Racism is rife there but FIFA only pay lip service to Kick Out Racism. I think their banners should have the word <deleted>: Kick Out Racism. In this day and age nearly all see people as footballers irrespective of colour.

2022

Qatar: Is the Pope a Catholic?

Yes I understand raciscm is rife in Russia, but maybe they can benefit from the anti-racism message more than perfect countries like the USA and England?

What an odd thing to say. Does your sarcastic tone mean to suggest that the USA and England are inherently racist?

[Jingthing]

I'll let my text stand without further comment.

Another point about Qatar. With global warming (new term I've heard, global weirding) I wonder if it will be even HOTTER there by 2022?

Edited December 7, 2010 by Jingthing

[SweeneyAgonistes]

I don't understand that one either. Russia has a dreadful history of hate crime and, worse, pretty much no official recognition that this is true.

As for Qatar, you can only think that they must think that by then the world economy will be so screwed that the world cup won't happen. Nobody could really think that playing the world cup in a nation of 1.5 million people - those stadiums will come in handy won't they - where you can't drink, and in potentially lethal weather is a good idea. There must have been truck-fulls of cash handed over.

Edited December 7, 2010 by SweeneyAgonistes

[smokie36]

I don't understand that one either. Russia has a dreadful history of hate crime and, worse, pretty much no official recognition that this is true.

As for Qatar, you can only think that they must think that by then the world economy will be so screwed that the world cup won't happen. Nobody could really think that playing the world cup in a nation of 1.5 million people - those stadiums will come in handy won't they - where you can't drink, and in potentially lethal weather is a good idea. There must have been truck-fulls of cash handed over.

Richest country in the world....they have a quarter of the world's oil reserves apparently.....no surprises.

[mrbojangles]

Smokie. Sorry but this was from the other thread which has been locked. So, with your permission, can we discuss in this thread? :jap:

Because of this the scheduled first ever international friendly between England and Thailand which was due to be played in June next year has been cancelled.

ianwuk

This in itself is a shocking result. Also its an insult to the Thai people given the reason for the game anyway. Disgraceful behavior by the FA.

Why is it disgraceful Smokie? It's my understanding that the Thai vote was pretty secure for the England bid and he then changed his mind (probably after the Panorama episode). Why should the FA send our team all the way out to Thailand for a friendly, when the Thai FIFA representative showed us just how much of a friend we are to him.

I fully congratulate the FA for this decision. If the Thai people have an issue with it, they should look at the actions of their FIFA rep before condemning the FA. It is he who is the insult to the Thai people. IMO of course.

[smokie36]

Smokie. Sorry but this was from the other thread which has been locked. So, with your permission, can we discuss in this thread? :jap:

Because of this the scheduled first ever international friendly between England and Thailand which was due to be played in June next year has been cancelled.

ianwuk

This in itself is a shocking result. Also its an insult to the Thai people given the reason for the game anyway. Disgraceful behavior by the FA.

Why is it disgraceful Smokie? It's my understanding that the Thai vote was pretty secure for the England bid and he then changed his mind (probably after the Panorama episode). Why should the FA send our team all the way out to Thailand for a friendly, when the Thai FIFA representative showed us just how much of a friend we are to him.

I fully congratulate the FA for this decision. If the Thai people have an issue with it, they should look at the actions of their FIFA rep before condemning the FA. It is he who is the insult to the Thai people. IMO of course.

Agreed on the Thai FIFA representative. I simply feel the FA should rise above this nonsense and honour their previously agreed commitment.

[StevieH]

little bit more on the russia and qatar award:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/dec/08/russia-qatar-zurich-michel-platini

As fans still puzzle over Fifa's decision to hand World Cups to Russia and Qatar last week, Nicolas Sarkozy's pressure on Michel Platini to vote for Qatar's 2022 bid is no secret. Apparently France's president wanted Qatar to increase its order for five Airbus 380s.

And as Qatar Airways' chief executive, Akbar al-Baker, announced seven days before the vote: "Definitely we will consider increasing this order." Perhaps those considerations have been made a little easier by events in Zurich.

Germany has similar business imperatives, and just maybe they also influenced its executive-committee member, Franz Beckenbauer, though we cannot be sure. It is known that Beckenbauer is close to Gerhard Schröder, the former Germany chancellor.

Schröder, who is on the board of Gazprom (which is also the €16m-a-year sponsor of Schalke, the big club in Schröder's native region). Maybe Gazprom's Nord Stream Gas Pipeline, linking Germany to Russia under the Baltic Sea, was bringing Moscow an early dividend ahead of its opening next year when Beckenbauer voted for Russia for 2018.

Industrial Germany's thirst for minerals may also have played a part for 2022. Having been the only one of six voters to keep his first-round promise to Australia's 2022 bid, Beckenbauer joined the Qatari bandwagon after Australia's elimination.

This no doubt pleased Germany's current chancellor, Angela Merkel. She is frowning on the hostile takeover bid from Spain's ACS (which in Florentino Pérez just so happens to share a chairman with Real Madrid) for Hochtief, Germany's biggest builder. This Monday, Hochtief issued 7m new shares for ¤400m (£337m), significantly diluting ACS's stake. The buyer of these discounted shares? Why, the state of Qatar.

Perhaps David Cameron and the country he leads missed out last Thursday not only on a World Cup but a lot more besides.

[ballpoint]

I don't understand that one either. Russia has a dreadful history of hate crime and, worse, pretty much no official recognition that this is true.

As for Qatar, you can only think that they must think that by then the world economy will be so screwed that the world cup won't happen. Nobody could really think that playing the world cup in a nation of 1.5 million people - those stadiums will come in handy won't they - where you can't drink, and in potentially lethal weather is a good idea. There must have been truck-fulls of cash handed over.

It seems that not much thought has gone into where the supporters will be staying too. Doha isn't exactly over run with hotels, or are they going to build dozens of them and ship them to Africa when it's all over as well? The consequences of having all those rival supporters staying in one place could also get pretty messy.

[MSingh]

How can you say " forgetting all the obvious corruption issues " then " i understand the Russia decision " in the same Thread from teh original Poster, & expect sensible replies ???

Edited : To add the word " obvious "

Edited December 8, 2010 by MSingh

[StevieH]

It seems that not much thought has gone into where the supporters will be staying too. Doha isn't exactly over run with hotels, or are they going to build dozens of them and ship them to Africa when it's all over as well? The consequences of having all those rival supporters staying in one place could also get pretty messy.

there's a plan to allow people to sleep in the stadiums after matches have finished.

[ballpoint]

It seems that not much thought has gone into where the supporters will be staying too. Doha isn't exactly over run with hotels, or are they going to build dozens of them and ship them to Africa when it's all over as well? The consequences of having all those rival supporters staying in one place could also get pretty messy.

there's a plan to allow people to sleep in the stadiums after matches have finished.

Good idea. After all, it's a world cup tradition that the referees and linesmen are able to sleep in the stadiums while the matches are taking place.

[Jingthing]

How can you say " forgetting all the obvious corruption issues " then " i understand the Russia decision " in the same Thread from teh original Poster, & expect sensible replies ???

Edited : To add the word " obvious "

Huh?

I think my meaning was quite clear. There are other places to whine about the corruption. However, the decisions were made. Are you suggesting as the poll author, I shouldn't have my own opinion? Why? The point was in the Russian case is that even if there was hanky panky it still makes logical sense to give the games to Russia as it is a huge important country which certainly is capable of hosting the Cup and there is a greater good of stimulating the game in Eastern Europe.

As far as expecting sensible replies, who said anyone expects sensible replies here or anywhere on an open opinion forum?

Edited December 8, 2010 by Jingthing

[MSingh]

How can you say " forgetting all the obvious corruption issues " then " i understand the Russia decision " in the same Thread from teh original Poster, & expect sensible replies ???

Edited : To add the word " obvious "

Huh?

I think my meaning was quite clear. There are other places to whine about the corruption. However, the decisions were made. Are you suggesting as the poll author, I shouldn't have my own opinion? Why? The point was in the Russian case is that even if there was hanky panky it still makes logical sense to give the games to Russia as it is a huge important country which certainly is capable of hosting the Cup and there is a greater good of stimulating the game in Eastern Europe.

As far as expecting sensible replies, who said anyone expects sensible replies here or anywhere on an open opinion forum?

So you acknowldge the " obvious corruption ", yet want to ignore it & then talk & encourage others to talk as if it's not there, about a subject that is influenced completely by it ??

Honestly, i'm not sure how it can be done though & i'm not being a smart arse, i just honestly can't see how you're gonna have a constructive thread about something with those guidelines set out..

There is no logic behind Russia at all except for the part that you don't wnat the thread to talk about.

Russia has the worst problems with Racism in the whole of Europe if not the World, the decision makes a Mockery of FIFA's " RESPECT " Campaign on that alone..

On that alone, how can Russia be awarded a World Cup, not even taking into consideration the Corruption ??

[Jingthing]

Oy vey, dude. The corruption is being discussed elsewhere. Discuss it here if you want. Do I look like I am someone who has the power to control what people talk about here? The point was WHILE VOTING, forget that there was likely corruption, how do the decisions sound to people anyway, in an ideal world, which of course, it isn't? I still think the Russian choice was OK (corruption of course isn't OK) looked at that way and the Qatar decision was not OK. The majority agree with me here as well. Thinking a decision was OK is not the same as supporting the bidding nation. I supported the USA bid but would have considered a decision for Australia to be reasonable, but not Qatar.

As far as Russia's racism, I don't deny that and I am no fan of Russia. However, I don't follow that FIFA is rewarding racism by giving it to Russia. They can and should continue with their anti-racism efforts and Russia is a rich target for that good message. What's the problem?

I do get that sporting events are political. Should Hitler have been given an Olympics that he ended up using for Nazi propaganda? Probably not, but the modern Russian situation isn't quite at that level.

If you can't appreciate the spirit of my point, forget the corruption for a moment while considering a vote on this, so be it, too bad. If you are seeking a protected argument with me on this arcane point, too bad also, because it's over.

Cheers.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Jingthing

[MSingh]

Oy vey, dude. The corruption is being discussed elsewhere. Discuss it here if you want. Do I look like I am someone who has the power to control what people talk about here? The point was WHILE VOTING, forget that there was likely corruption, how do the decisions sound to people anyway, in an ideal world, which of course, it isn't? I still think the Russian choice was OK (corruption of course isn't OK) looked at that way and the Qatar decision was not OK. The majority agree with me here as well. If you can't appreciate the spirit of my point, forget the corruption for a moment while considering a vote on this, so be it, too bad. If you are seeking a protected argument with me on this arcane point, too bad also, because it's over.

Cheers.

Sorry, i don't understand, what's over ??

I have given you a point ( Racism ) which with that alone & the hypocricy of FIFA's RESPECT Campaign shows how ludicrous giving the WC to Russia was but you seem to have ignored it & have instead said that something is " over ", which i'm not entirely sure what you're referring to..

Do the majority here think that the Russian decision was ok then ??

I have re read the Thread & all i see is you having digs at the USA & England ( of which you wouldn't clarify what you meant when asked ) & one Poster saying he voted YES for Russia because " it will be good for the Russian people ".. The WC would have been good for the people of North Korea too but that doesn't mean they shoudl have got it does it ??

That's hardly a majority Jingthing is it ??

Where are you from Jongthing, i'm from England, please tell me where you are from ??

[StevieH]

Sorry, i don't understand, what's over ??

I have given you a point ( Racism ) which with that alone & the hypocricy of FIFA's RESPECT Campaign shows how ludicrous giving the WC to Russia was but you seem to have ignored it & have instead said that something is " over ", which i'm not entirely sure what you're referring to..

Do the majority here think that the Russian decision was ok then ??

i don't think it's the scandal that many english people are making it out to be. qatar in 22 is a joke but there's a very genuine and real case to be made for russia getting it in 18. the awarding of a world cup is a massive incentive for russia to get its football racism house in order because it is of course simply unacceptable at present. that said, italy's football crowds are about as racist as russia's and nobody is saying italy shouldn't get world cups based on that.

there seems to be a huge feeling of 'entitlement' surrounding the english bid, and it smells funny. it wasn't england's 'turn', england didn't 'deserve' the 18 world cup and they didn't play the politics game well enough. reap what you sow and don't moan about it afterwards really. complaining about fifa being corrupt is like moaning about rain in monsoon season.

[MSingh]

Sorry, i don't understand, what's over ??

I have given you a point ( Racism ) which with that alone & the hypocricy of FIFA's RESPECT Campaign shows how ludicrous giving the WC to Russia was but you seem to have ignored it & have instead said that something is " over ", which i'm not entirely sure what you're referring to..

Do the majority here think that the Russian decision was ok then ??

i don't think it's the scandal that many english people are making it out to be. qatar in 22 is a joke but there's a very genuine and real case to be made for russia getting it in 18. the awarding of a world cup is a massive incentive for russia to get its football racism house in order because it is of course simply unacceptable at present. that said, italy's football crowds are about as racist as russia's and nobody is saying italy shouldn't get world cups based on that.

there seems to be a huge feeling of 'entitlement' surrounding the english bid, and it smells funny. it wasn't england's 'turn', england didn't 'deserve' the 18 world cup and they didn't play the politics game well enough. reap what you sow and don't moan about it afterwards really. complaining about fifa being corrupt is like moaning about rain in monsoon season.

I don't think it's moaning about FIFA curruption Stvie, more like exposing it no ??

& i certainly don't feel we were entitled to anythign at all, i actually woulnd't have minded the Spanish & Portugese bid being successful, aswell as the Dutch..

I did however think that we had a bid that was MUCH more deserving than 2 votes...

Panirama didn't moan about anything, they just exposed it to the eyes of the World & Warner certainly didn't like, he was even quoted yesterday as saying that England were never gonna get it afte rthe Pnaorama thing because " it would be the ultimate insult to FIFA " if they did so..

Nothing about the actual stuff that Panorama did uncover of course though..

& i simply can't agree that as Russia got it, it may make them get their House in order as like you said, the Italians are on a Par of not worse & that doesn't mena they shoudl get the next European turn..

This whole thing is farcical, laughable even & i find it insulting as a Human Being that FIFA continue to get away with this..

They're made of of Men who are not really that smart, like Warner for a prime example..

Edited December 8, 2010 by MSingh

[StreetCowboy]

I suppose the Brits will just have to make do with the Olympics, the Commonwealth games and a few rugby world cups...

I'm sure people in the UK will be glad of a rest...

Apart from obvious prejudices regarding the countries concerned, what do reckon on the bids that were submitted? I imagine that might have had something to do with the decision...I've not analysed the bids, so I'm quite happy to accept FIFA's decision, regardless of my own bigotries.

SC

[StevieH]

I don't think it's moaning about FIFA curruption Stvie, more like exposing it no ??

& i certainly don't feel we were entitled to anythign at all, i actually woulnd't have minded the Spanish & Portugese bid being successful, aswell as the Dutch..

I did however think that we had a bid that was MUCH more deserving than 2 votes...

Panirama didn't moan about anything, they just exposed it to the eyes of the World & Warner certainly didn't like, he was even quoted yesterday as saying that England were never gonna get it afte rthe Pnaorama thing because " it would be the ultimate insult to FIFA " if they did so..

Nothing about the actual stuff that Panorama did uncover of course though..

& i simply can't agree that as Russia got it, it may make them get their House in order as like you said, the Italians are on a Par of not worse & that doesn't mena they shoudl get the next European turn..

This whole thing is farcical, laughable even & i find it insulting as a Human Being that FIFA continue to get away with this..

They're made of of Men who are not really that smart, like Warner for a prime example..

but none of this is news though mate. there's nothing to expose with fifa because it's well known that it's a despicable, corrupt organisation. russia played the fifa game better than england and won. i'm not saying it's you personally that is moaning, but the english press reaction has been laughable. russia is an enormous nation, a big football country and it's never hosted a world cup - from that perspective i can't really see an argument against them getting it in 18.

also, that england only got 2 votes as well shouldn't be a surprise as england is reaping what it sowed years ago when backing lennart johannsson against sepp blatter, blatter's hated english football ever since really. it's a rigged voting system, no event like this should have a secret ballot conducted by 22 doddery old gets who are clearly open to bribery. england and all other sensible footballing nations should have nothing to do with it and should even withdraw from all fifa competitions. they won't though.

[MSingh]

I don't think it's moaning about FIFA curruption Stvie, more like exposing it no ??

& i certainly don't feel we were entitled to anythign at all, i actually woulnd't have minded the Spanish & Portugese bid being successful, aswell as the Dutch..

I did however think that we had a bid that was MUCH more deserving than 2 votes...

Panirama didn't moan about anything, they just exposed it to the eyes of the World & Warner certainly didn't like, he was even quoted yesterday as saying that England were never gonna get it afte rthe Pnaorama thing because " it would be the ultimate insult to FIFA " if they did so..

Nothing about the actual stuff that Panorama did uncover of course though..

& i simply can't agree that as Russia got it, it may make them get their House in order as like you said, the Italians are on a Par of not worse & that doesn't mena they shoudl get the next European turn..

This whole thing is farcical, laughable even & i find it insulting as a Human Being that FIFA continue to get away with this..

They're made of of Men who are not really that smart, like Warner for a prime example..

but none of this is news though mate. there's nothing to expose with fifa because it's well known that it's a despicable, corrupt organisation. russia played the fifa game better than england and won. i'm not saying it's you personally that is moaning, but the english press reaction has been laughable. russia is an enormous nation, a big football country and it's never hosted a world cup - from that perspective i can't really see an argument against them getting it in 18.

also, that england only got 2 votes as well shouldn't be a surprise as england is reaping what it sowed years ago when backing lennart johannsson against sepp blatter, blatter's hated english football ever since really. it's a rigged voting system, no event like this should have a secret ballot conducted by 22 doddery old gets who are clearly open to bribery. england and all other sensible footballing nations should have nothing to do with it and should even withdraw from all fifa competitions. they won't though.

But this is just it isn't it, it so badly corrupt that it's just ridiculous & add to the fact that no one will actually do anything about it & will still participate under FIFA, then it's actually soemthing i personally am not sure i'll be up for at all in the future..

Brazil 2014 aside though of course..