rubl Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 This incidence was brought to you by TPN (Terrorism Participating Networks) and the PAD (Participants Acting Demolition). If the govt and the army doesn't clear within it's own ranks then the future of this country will be at stake. Somehow I think the only reason this situation evolved was because someone pointed out what was visible and known by all locals without them seeing a reason to react. In that sense you may indeed blame PAD and mostly TPN. As for government & army cleaning up their own ranks. Mmmh, a bit more difficult. We do have a democracy here, you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsailor35 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 CH3 reporter on scene says clash began about 3pm and is still continuing at this moment. /via@terryfrd Reporters said gunfire sounded like both artillery as well as assault rifles. /RT @tulsathit: /RT @Neaw_NBC: CH 3 reporter says he can hear fighting very clearly w. artillery and smaller weapons being used. /via@terryfrd Hope that no international media reporters get in there as they might collect a Thai Army bullet. Or a Cambodian mortal shell. Or even a Cambodian mortar shell that can be mortal... such as to the Thai villager killed. a Thai army bullet.....................guess i should have added "like they did in the Bangkok crackdown" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsiam Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 What next? The government won't be able to handle it, Its different fighting with another country as opposed to slaughtering your own civilians, the army will come out and say the government don't know how to handle it, and then fast forward to the coup that we all know is coming based on the reds coming back into power at the next election, and a desire by the elite to stop that at all costs. LOL! What a joke of a post! you're losing your numbers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Hope that no international media reporters get in there as they might collect a Thai Army bullet. Or a Cambodian mortal shell. Or even a Cambodian mortar shell that can be mortal... such as to the Thai villager killed. a Thai army bullet.....................guess i should have added "like they did in the Bangkok crackdown" oh ok, in that case, you could have also added... or hit by a Red Shirt firing a Grenade Launcher like Wanlop Pitheeprom, shown demonstrating his skill during a re-enactment. Perhaps that could use some of the Red Shirts adeptness with weapons on the border. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi007 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 What next? The government won't be able to handle it, Its different fighting with another country as opposed to slaughtering your own civilians, the army will come out and say the government don't know how to handle it, and then fast forward to the coup that we all know is coming based on the reds coming back into power at the next election, and a desire by the elite to stop that at all costs. LOL! What a joke of a post! you're losing your numbers! What does that mean in plain english? Do you think this little border incident will turn into a war and a coup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Some posts have been removed for not having a source link and not in line with fair use. It is generally accepted, but not written into law, that quoting the first two or three sentences of an article and giving a link to the source is considered “fair use” and not a violation of copyright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Yes thats true - they are so used to killing unarmed civilians - they might be a bit surprised that somebody is actually shooting back at them - killing unarmed civilians with war waepons - or suffocating them on trucks and never being held accountable is a real difficult task for any armed forces . Last time they encountered an enemy who shot back was in Laos - where they showed the glorious Thai army how to beat them in "flip-flops" many of them did not even wear shoes when they chased them of the hill - ups if memory serves me right - that was after the glorious Thai air force dropped bombs on their own ! But that is of course banned reading and not in the selective history teachings here. Lets face it the Thai armed forces are a sorry excuse for an in politics meddling business enterprise - with not much else to show! Their entire leadership is an insult to any real professional law abiding soldier wherever they are in the world! "killing unarmed civilians with war waepons" Your revision of history borders on the comical - when unarmed civilians have war weapons they become insurgents and legitimate targets. So many ranters about the thai army killing civilians - lets forget about the killing fields. So much crap about battle hardened khmer troops - from doing what? the Vietnamese pulled out over 20 years ago, and for 10 years before that the Khmer Rouge hid in the jungle and achieved very little, after a few years of mass slaughter, and they were innocent civilians they were killing. As for the Cambodians here rising up as a terrorist group, what a crock. What would they achieve in the long run except a mass deportation. Offer a Cambodian a free one-way ticket home and he'll ask "what's second prize?" It may surprise you but being a 2nd class citizen here is a lot better than being there; that's why they vote with their feet. China and Vietnam ( a real loving couple) will side with Cambodia - yeah sure! The Viets will stand back and yell encouragement, and the Chinese will weigh a few acres of low grade dirt and a couple of mouldy temples against their high-speed rail link - a real no-brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitterbatter Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 THAI-KHMER BORDER Thai-Khmer border skirmish breaks out By The Nation It looks like a beautiful temple, I do hope that they don't fill it with bullet hole. Jeruselem, Brussels, and here its all the same kind of problem, fighting over the rights to some special piece of land. THis really gets old. A temple is supposed to house peace. <deleted> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) Very lucky there weren't more Thai casualties from the Cambodian shelling: A house burns in a Thai village near a 11th-century Preah Vihear temple at the border between Thailand and Cambodia February 4, 2011. Thai and Cambodian soldiers exchanged fire in a two-hour border clash on Friday that killed two Cambodian soldiers and a Thai villager, the latest in an ancient feud over land surrounding the 900-year-old Hindu temple. REUTERS http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//110204/ids_photos_wl/r806077240.jpg/ . Edited September 18, 2011 by metisdead Copyrighted Reuters photo removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovinglife Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 "The Khmer are battle hard. They have fought a war till 15 years ago. They are holding the highland. Good luck with it. " The high ground is all on the Thai side and if it came to a war the Cambodians would be slaughtered in days, get your facts right before letting your hatred for the country that you live in run away with you. No hatred of Thailand on my part. I love the country and people, but YOU need to get a few things straight. First, the only "war" experience the Thai military has in recent history was the Thai-Lao Border War of 1988, in which the vaunted, and much superior Thai army invaded and took over village of Ban Romklao, only to be chased out that night by the Lao, a country whose entire population is about the same as BKK. Cambodia has had years of fighting, with many well seasoned officers and troops, whereas Thailand has zero. And the fact that the Thai military is bigger and better equipped is NO guarantee of any victory. I'm an American, retired Marine, and 2 tour Vietnam vet, so I know exactly what I'm talking about in that. You also have to consider the fact that China has been, for a number of year now, pouring the latest weapons and weapons systems into Cambodia, and in any clash between Thailand and Cambodia, Vietnam and China will side with Cambodia, as would, most likely, Lao. The Thai military looks great on paper, but armies don't win battles on paper, they win them in the field. In a contest between a large, untested military against a smaller, battle seasoned one, I'll put my money on the "little guy". So I would say your comments about it being a "slaughter" are somewhat delusional and highly overrated. Or perhaps you're merely suffering from the well known malady of "Thai Superiority" thinking. High ground! I seem to remember you mentioning it, have you been there? Cambodia would be sitting ducks due to the geography. And if you seriously think China would take up arms against Thailand then you are deluded. This would be a skirmish in which Thailand would prevail in days due to the lie of the land. Laos border war was a totally different scenario, take a look at an OS map of the area and then see if you disagree. You really should learn to comprehend what you read. I said China and Vietnam would SIDE with Cambodia which, in any normal conversation, the comprehension would be to understand that they would SUPPORT Cambodia. I never mentioned anything about China "taking up arms" against Thailand. They don't have to, as they've been supplying Cambodian troops with all the latest military technology, and training on how to use it. And I notice you didn't comment about Vietnam, which HAS signed a treaty for "joint support and defense" with Cambodia (as has Lao), but not with Thailand, and they (Vietnam) have an "old bone" to pick with Thailand. And in this day of modern technology, geographical "high ground" doesn't mean squat. I stand by my comments that Thailand would face major problems if they seriously went to war with Cambodia, because it would be a war they could not hope to win. International condemnation would be piled on them for being the "bully" picking on a smaller country over an issue that was settled by the ICJ years ago, in which Thailand lost the case, and even though they had 7 years to appeal, they didn't bother because they knew the outcome, and a second loss of "face" in the international community would be too much to bear. Add to that the fact that while the Cambodian military was engaged with the Thai military, Cambodian agents would also target BKK, Chiang Mai, Phuket, Pattaya and other major tourist destinations with a rash of bombs and killings that would totally destroy Thailand's tourism industry. BKK could end up looking like Beirut, or Cairo does now, with car bombs and other forms of destruction. The Thai military may be bigger, and have more "toys", but lack any form of experience in actual combat, as apposed to Cambodia's smaller, but well trained military. Thai vs Cambodia? I'm still putting my money on Cambodia. Today is a good example. Cambodian forces captured Thai solders AND a Thai tank. Oh, yeah, really good these Thai. lol. I understand entirely, what you are now saying is that after defeat, Cambodia would fight a war of terrorism, and it sounds like you would welcome it! You really should go and reside in another country and stop your bitterness towards Thailand, I guess you're pissed off about visa laws or something. I'm sick of people like you, especially Yanks, that enjoy the hospitality of this country but love to ridicule and criticise it all the time. "Settled by the ICJ", who cares, who are the ICJ in terms of this region? This land was taken from Siam by the French, take it back and no one will do a thing! I repeat, this would be over in days and the Chinese would have no interest at all, the Cambodians will moan like hell but who cares about Hun Sen, the Vietnamese are not so stupid to get involved in this. "Geographical high ground means Squat", explain please? Thailand would take quickly, how would Cambodia take back? Please check your maps, I know it's not something Us forces are keen on but it is really the deciding factor on this piece of land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) Thai villagers find shelter in Si Sa Ket after fleeing the area near a 11th-century Preah Vihear temple at the border between Thailand and Cambodia February 4, 2011. REUTERS http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//110204/ids_photos_wl/r806077240.jpg/#photoViewer=/110204/ids_photos_wl/r1458466473.jpg Edited September 18, 2011 by metisdead Copyrighted Reuters photos removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qualtrough Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 "The Khmer are battle hard. They have fought a war till 15 years ago. They are holding the highland. Good luck with it. " The high ground is all on the Thai side and if it came to a war the Cambodians would be slaughtered in days, get your facts right before letting your hatred for the country that you live in run away with you. What facts are you talking about? Outside of the war with the Colonial French, during which the Japanese had their backs, which wars, skirmishs, or battles have the Thai military won against armed opponents? I am genuinely curious, please enlighten us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theanimaster Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I'm with Just1Voice... Even without him saying he's a vet. The fact that the Thai military just lost 2 tanks ina skirmish is pretty pathetic. Same way they let a couple red shirts block a small contingent of reinforcements during the Bangkok Protests. Thais are just too proud sometimes. Let's see how mai-Ben-rai this will turn out to be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuffki Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I'm with Just1Voice... Even without him saying he's a vet. The fact that the Thai military just lost 2 tanks ina skirmish is pretty pathetic. Same way they let a couple red shirts block a small contingent of reinforcements during the Bangkok Protests. Thais are just too proud sometimes. Let's see how mai-Ben-rai this will turn out to be... Do not forget red shirts also managed to take/hold the entire train, not just block small contingent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJP Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I'm with Just1Voice... Even without him saying he's a vet. The fact that the Thai military just lost 2 tanks ina skirmish is pretty pathetic. Same way they let a couple red shirts block a small contingent of reinforcements during the Bangkok Protests. Thais are just too proud sometimes. Let's see how mai-Ben-rai this will turn out to be... I suppose, like many countries around the world, they think they can rely on the United States to get them out of a real tough spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theanimaster Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 You guys really need to play a game of Civilization IV to see what happens when one nation declares war on the other. Granted the real thing is more complex... There are a few basic things to understand about wars and support from other nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 "Settled by the ICJ", who cares, who are the ICJ in terms of this region? This land was taken from Siam by the French, take it back and no one will do a thing! I repeat, this would be over in days and the Chinese would have no interest at all, the Cambodians will moan like hell but who cares about Hun Sen, the Vietnamese are not so stupid to get involved in this. "Geographical high ground means Squat", explain please? Thailand would take quickly, how would Cambodia take back? Please check your maps, I know it's not something Us forces are keen on but it is really the deciding factor on this piece of land. Read about the ICJ statement in 1962: http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?sum=284&code=ct&p1=3&p2=3&case=45&k=46&p3=5 Since then silence followed by lots of talks, moral high ground, nationalism. Still read the ICJ statement first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuffki Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I'm with Just1Voice... Even without him saying he's a vet. The fact that the Thai military just lost 2 tanks ina skirmish is pretty pathetic. Same way they let a couple red shirts block a small contingent of reinforcements during the Bangkok Protests. Thais are just too proud sometimes. Let's see how mai-Ben-rai this will turn out to be... I suppose, like many countries around the world, they think they can rely on the United States to get them out of a real tough spot. Nah, i reckon they can send in PAD and all the PAD protesters around the Gov house for reinforcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 We are in Phetburi Road Bangkok. CTN is now back after 2 hr of blackout. I suppose their website isn't design to receive traffic surge. She she is glue to the box and I can't get her back to bed. I think I need more beer. Where that's darn cap opener? The can opener is watching TV, apparently... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianf Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 What next? The government won't be able to handle it, Its different fighting with another country as opposed to slaughtering your own civilians, the army will come out and say the government don't know how to handle it, and then fast forward to the coup that we all know is coming based on the reds coming back into power at the next election, and a desire by the elite to stop that at all costs. Yes, I understand the government, under Thaksin, slaughtered nearly 3000 of its own citizens in a spate of extra-judicial killings. If, by any chance, you are referring to the red invasion of central BKK, then you may not be correct in your assertion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SICA Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Does anybody know if the Chong Chom/O'Smack border crossing is open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayjay0 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 What next? The government won't be able to handle it, Its different fighting with another country as opposed to slaughtering your own civilians, the army will come out and say the government don't know how to handle it, and then fast forward to the coup that we all know is coming based on the reds coming back into power at the next election, and a desire by the elite to stop that at all costs. Couldn't (DIS)agree with you more on everything in your posting!!!!! That's OK he dosen't believe it either. He has a reputation to uphold. To not post negativity goes against his grain.LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exona Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 As an old campaigner this reminds me of the great Nana war of 01 ( not to be confused with the "Great Opium war of 67") when the "girls(re, RTA) of Carousal Bar took on the invading force of the "others" from the revamped (no pun intended) Cascade Bar. Oh brothers it was sharpened stileotos at no passes!!!!! What do our Khmer brothers, the fathers of our Bootirum beauties, have to gain from any of this nonsense???? On a day when "The papers" lead with opinions saying all this talk of coupes ( yes hot 2 door cars) is null and void because there's no reason for it. Bugger me another skirmish. For all these "long term" observerse who comment on the capability of border dualists, do a bit of reasearch about Chavilits logging war of 88, and the 20,000 odd border "volunters" who were unacounted for at the end. Jesus have you forgoten hill 160 or whatever it was, held by the Karen for 2 weeks ,7 kms inside Thailand for the loss of over 150 thais not 5 years ago?????? That really was in Thailand.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landofthefree Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 ups, somoby didn't follow the orders. agree fully with random. just only today suthep wanted mediation about preah vihear http://www.thaivisa....-vihear-temple/ the nationalist card is the best bet to keep populace under controll and oppressed. this time there was no need for the airport occupations etc - just crossing the border by some political lunatics in the hands of the generals and the rulling class trying to steer to war. lets see how many casualties on each site and how many more before end of this week Abhisit is just doing what many other leaders such as Margaret Thatcher did when she was about to lose an election ie have a war as in the Falklands in Maggie T's case it got her re elected I guess that what this unelected man is also trying to do, win the populist vote by stirring up nationalism he doesnt really otherwise stand much hope with the old PAD allies against him as well as Pheua Thai. Lets see where it gets him. I hope he wins it because we really don't need another coup when the ruling classes see a party elected in that they don'tlike. Same same as ever TIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagwan Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I'm with Just1Voice... Even without him saying he's a vet. The fact that the Thai military just lost 2 tanks ina skirmish is pretty pathetic. Same way they let a couple red shirts block a small contingent of reinforcements during the Bangkok Protests. Thais are just too proud sometimes. Let's see how mai-Ben-rai this will turn out to be... If the performance of the Thai Army in the South is any guide I'd say the Cambodians would win hands down. The Thai Army cannot even stop their weapons being stolen by anybody that takes a fancy to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Border clashes kill six PM says Thai troops reacted to Cambodian firing in worst flare-up over a decade; Phnom Penh vows to take the issue to UN Security Council today Artillery exchanges between Thailand and Cambodia yesterday in the disputed area near the Hindu Preah Vihear Temple killed at least six soldiers and civilians on both sides as well as damaged property in one of the worst border flare-ups in a decade. Phnom Penh plans to complain today to the United Nations over what it terms a "Thai invasion", Cambodian Foreign Ministry spokesman Koy Kuong said yesterday. "We will lodge a complaint with the UN Security Council on Saturday [today]," he was quoted by Agence France-Presse as saying. However, Thai Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan played down the significance of the incident. "We are negotiating now and I am sure that everything will be fine," he said. Army chief Prayut Chan-o-cha said the situation calmed down after 6pm and some Thai soldiers were slightly injured but a soldier on the ground contacted by The Nation via telephone said they were still engaged in the battle late last night. "So far we have lost two, and I was injured. We cannot go down the Phu Ma Khua hill," the injured soldier said in a short conversation before the line was cut. After the fighting ended, Second Army Area commander Lt-General Thawatchai Samutsakhon and Si Sa Ket Governor Somsak Suwansujarit held talks with a Cambodian army commander at the Phra Viharn National Park about the clash. Charoen Thahom, a 50-year-old resident of Si Sa Ket's Phum Srol village, was killed by an artillery shell that landed in his village while he was leading his family to seek shelter after the border skirmish broke out. At least seven buildings, including one owned by Phum Srol School, were hit by artillery shells fired from the Cambodian side. Three houses were set ablaze. Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said last night that the Thai side fired warning shots and then responded to the Cambodian fire when the warnings were ignored. He added that the fighting now was over. However, he declined to confirm a report that Thai soldiers had been captured during the clash. The clash occurred at a disputed border area near Phu Ma Khua hill at 3.15pm and the sound of gunfire was heard at Si Sa Ket province's Ban Phum Srol about 5 kilometres from the hill, villagers said. "We were at a sports event when the sound of many weapons, including small arms and heavy weapons, was heard from the battlefield," a resident told The Nation via telephone. Besides the civilian and soldiers fatality, five Thai soldiers were injured in the clash, according to Public Health Minister Jurin Laksanawisit. Authorities told villagers to seek shelter and later evacuated them to safe areas deeper into Thai territory. Some of them moved to a downtown area of Kantharalak district, about 30km from the Preah Vihear Temple. Thailand and Cambodia have been at loggerheads over the border area adjacent to Preah Vihear for a long time. Both sides boosted troop numbers in the area recently after the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) staged a protest near the Prime Minister's Office demanding the government use force to kick Cambodians out of the area. PAD leader Chamlong Srimuang said he was not happy with the border clash, since it damaged both sides. "It happened because Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva showed weakness to Cambodia," he said. Troops clashed in 2008 and 2009 in the same area, resulting in the deaths of more than 10 soldiers on both sides. The clash this time was fiercer as it saw the use of artillery that hit civilians and their homes. Residents saw many shells land near their villages in tambon Sao Thong Chai. Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban said Cambodian troops opened fire first, triggering the exchange of fire. However, Cambodian government spokesman Phay Siphan said Thai soldiers had crossed 500 metres into Cambodian territory and opened fire first despite efforts of Cambodian troops to avoid violence. "Although Cambodian soldiers tried to negotiate to stop the Thai soldiers from invading Cambodia, the Thai Army kept moving deeper into Cambodian territory and opened fire without provocation by Cambodian forces. We have the right to self-defence to protect our land against Thai invasion," he said. Cambodian media reported that least two Cambodian civilians and one soldier died after Thai shells landed on the Cambodian side. Cambodia reportedly held four Thai soldiers at Keo Sikha Kiri Svara Pagoda, which is in the disputed border area near Preah Vihear. The clash broke out shortly after Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya finished a Joint Commission meeting with his Cambodian counterpart Hor Namhong in Siem Reap. They told reporters there that they were happy with the improving relations and agreed to use peaceful means to settle the boundary conflict. -- The Nation 2011-01-05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somnana Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Don't they gave GPS these days for deputed borders these days to sought out these problems? Maybe a no mans land like America and Mexico is needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayjay0 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 picked this up on BBC "The Cambodian government has called it an "invasion", while the Thai military said it was a misunderstanding." Sounds like the Thai's started it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow1red1 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 What next? The government won't be able to handle it, Its different fighting with another country as opposed to slaughtering your own civilians, the army will come out and say the government don't know how to handle it, and then fast forward to the coup that we all know is coming based on the reds coming back into power at the next election, and a desire by the elite to stop that at all costs. Where did you get that crystal ball? add Mara releasing all heck >>> it's documented in the last paragraphs. here >>> http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2011/02/04/opinion/A-flawed-model-of-growth-and-stability-30147875.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow1red1 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 picked this up on BBC "The Cambodian government has called it an "invasion", while the Thai military said it was a misunderstanding." Sounds like the Thai's started it. unless? Cambodia feels strong and sees Thailand as weak to invade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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