Sachs Motorcycles In Thailand

[Richard-BKK]

The relation between Tiger motorcycles and Sachs Bikes is finished. The Chinese owners of Sachs Bikes are looking for a new distributor in Thailand.

People who are, seriously interested, can send me a PM and I will bring them into contact with the right persons.

Dealers who currently selling Sachs Bikes don't have to worry, they will soon be able to order the MadAss and KikAss models by alternative means.

[BSJ]

So, does that mean Tiger are heading for stormy times......or already there?

[mbox]

So, does that mean Tiger are heading for stormy times......or already there?

Have made an inquiry at Tiger and expect reply from them today....last i heard from Tiger & Sachs relation was quite different ( that was mid January 2011) .

No , Tiger doesn't face stormy times ,that part i am sure off ...actually quite the opposite since there are new alliances ,as Parts suppliers , Parts sourcers & assemblers, for other manufacturers ( some are worldwide known) have been agreed on.

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[CMX]

So, does that mean Tiger are heading for stormy times......or already there?

I never did understand the nature of the relationship or the certainty of its advantage to Tiger. Sachs has been a Chinese owned company for a while now.

[Richard-BKK]

Motorcycle manufacturers are always operating in “stormy times”, one wrong decision, one wrong model, one serious product problem, or one wrong product introduction timing... and everything seems to turn for the worst.

Motorcycle manufacturers have learned to deal with stuff like that, and most manufacturers adapt very will to changing times. Will Tiger Motor be able to adapt to changing times? I surely hope so, only time can tell for sure...

But, one thing we know for sure. Things will change for Tiger, they will not be alone in the lower 250cc market... within this year the Tiger Boxer 250 RS has to compete against a naked 250cc V-twin bike with modern suspension for roughly the same price...

Tiger has done little to nothing for marketing in the last few years, the Tiger brand name is for most Thai's still only known as the police motorcycles manufactured by a company that paid some under-the-table money to get the police motorcycle deal. The truth is different, but it counts what the public thinks...

Lifan a company that will introduce several new models this year in the 250cc (both single-cylinder and V-twin engine design) is moving very fast. By years end they would likely have about five 250cc machines available in Thailand. Models like scooters, cruisers, off-road, Motard, scrambler, and naked-road bikes and maybe even a liquid-cooled V-twin road racer to compete against the Kawasaki Ninja 250R. With the financial backup to do marketing similar to what Thai people expect from large Japanese companies (TV-advertizing, soccer-events, music, concerts, etc....).

[mbox]

So, does that mean Tiger are heading for stormy times......or already there?

I never did understand the nature of the relationship or the certainty of its advantage to Tiger. Sachs has been a Chinese owned company for a while now.

CMX , the Madass in Thailand is mainly made in Thailand of parts mainly coming from Thailand(no not china)...thats actually starting from Frame, engine, shocks...so there is a certain advantage in producing right in the country where you sell. Madasses sold elsewhere around the world are likely all from china .

Kikass is a fully Tiger developed Bike. I believe mainly made in Thailand too . Even the X-road 250 engine seems a Tiger developed engine- not sure where it is built but it gives you an idea why a relationship would be an advantage for Sachs & Tiger alike

Of course , all the mentioned bikes Ie Kikass , madass parts from Thailand , engine for the xroad 250 have been agreed on by Sachs as well.

Has Sachs Germany still some say? not sure how much- maybe a little.

Here is the Sachs History to date(originating from Sachs Germany' website SFM-bikes.de): http://www.sfm-bikes.de/en/unternehmen_history.php

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[CMX]

Yes, but as Richard BKK points out, Tiger has been known as a manufacturer more than a retail seller. Certainly contracts of size are much of its business. But Tiger has not had sufficient sales to justify necessary resources for advertising, to establish a funded nation-wide distribution network - or local repair. No shock in this for me; Tiger's not a monster compared to Honda.

Apparently the 250 and down market is wide open to Asean manufacturers as well as those companies (Japanese, Chinese) locating here for 80% local content production. Nothing surprising to Tiger management, I should think, what with the electric model production and foray into the "cub" market with the Retro and other semi-custom sidecar models; I've thought of these as niche designs, a possible tactic.

What's going to happen to the rights of production regarding the "ass" models or X-Road is a question too, it seems? Patent rights are murky in the motorcycle business here in Asia, so far as I can tell.

Something of a Thai chauvinist when it comes to manufactured goods, I just hope for Tiger's continued success.

Edited February 14, 2011 by CMX

[Richard-BKK]

I told it before the Sachs X-Road 250 will never be available, since the concept X-Road 250 was build the market moved on... The Sachs X-Road 250 is just to far behind on innovation, even the name "X-Road" is officially dropped by Sachs (according to the Germans). Maybe some day, they will introduce a more modern version of the X-Road 250... but the model we keep seeing at motorshows in Thailand since 2007 is just old...

For the Sachs Kikass, yes it's a unique Thai Sachs product - but it's not developed by Tiger. It's developed by FYM, who sells it as the FYM Kikas 125 (so even the model name is not very unique). FYM is one of the brands owned by the same mother company who also owns Sachs... Guangzhou Panyu Hannan Motors Group has a few more brands available...

Made-in-China FYM KikAs

Edited February 14, 2011 by Richard-BKK

[thaicbr]

Richard....... I have to ask WHY you posted this. Do you have paperwork to confirm what you have said. We know that you seem to have some interest (either business or otherwise) in Chinese products.

It would seem that without official news either on the Sachs website or from Tiger that this "announcement" is just hearsay.

Eg you muddying the water just before the Chinese (Lifan in this case) release bikes that compete with Tiger.

Regards Allan

PS " I told it before the Sachs X-Road 250 will never be available"

Oh dear... see here http://www.sachsbikes.com.au/news.php?catID=&newsID=108&action=view

Edited February 14, 2011 by thaicbr

[LivinLOS]

Richard....... I have to ask WHY you posted this. Do you have paperwork to confirm what you have said. We know that you seem to have some interest (either business or otherwise) in Chinese products.

It would seem that without official news either on the Sachs website or from Tiger that this "announcement" is just hearsay.

Eg you muddying the water just before the Chinese (Lifan in this case) release bikes that compete with Tiger.

Regards Allan

PS " I told it before the Sachs X-Road 250 will never be available"

Oh dear... see here http://www.sachsbikes.com.au/news.php?catID=&newsID=108&action=view

Rumor or not.. Right or wrong.. Its only a forum post not an industry press release.

I personally like to hear rumors right or wrong, and attach my own determination to their relevance, the poster etc.

[Richard-BKK]

Paperwork, you're serious... it's 2011 and yes I have receive a communication in which I was asked to assist in helping to find another distributor for Sachs Bikes.

One of my businesses is actually to bring two parties together – so you could say I'm just doing my work. I not release details about why or what made Tiger and Sachs split the relation...

My intention is just to find a company or private person who says wow that's the business opportunity I was looking for... (people who think it's a good business opportunity are welcome to send me a PM and I will forward your information to the right persons).

About Tiger Motorcyles, it could even be Tiger motor Co. Ltd who terminated the business cooperation. And I'm sure that Tiger Motor produces very good motorcycles, I consider myself a fan of Tiger motors. Still I have to look at the reality of the Thai motorcycle market. Tiger has not moved to being a household name in Thailand. And Chinese manufacturers are coming... The Thai government signed a free-trade-deal with China – I know you believe me if I say I had nothing to do with it... Within 2011 we probably will also see the first Indian motorcycle manufacturers on the market in Thailand.

About the Sachs X-Road 250 you're completely right, so when will it be available in Thailand? And did I not read before that the 250cc engine was designed by Tiger Motorcycles, does Tiger exports this machines to Australia? Sachs also has a few motorcycle models available do they also come available in Thailand?

[mbox]

Paperwork, you're serious... it's 2011 and yes I have receive a communication in which I was asked to assist in helping to find another distributor for Sachs Bikes.

One of my businesses is actually to bring two parties together – so you could say I'm just doing my work. I not release details about why or what made Tiger and Sachs split the relation...

My intention is just to find a company or private person who says wow that's the business opportunity I was looking for... (people who think it's a good business opportunity are welcome to send me a PM and I will forward your information to the right persons).

About Tiger Motorcyles, it could even be Tiger motor Co. Ltd who terminated the business cooperation. And I'm sure that Tiger Motor produces very good motorcycles, I consider myself a fan of Tiger motors. Still I have to look at the reality of the Thai motorcycle market. Tiger has not moved to being a household name in Thailand. And Chinese manufacturers are coming... The Thai government signed a free-trade-deal with China – I know you believe me if I say I had nothing to do with it... Within 2011 we probably will also see the first Indian motorcycle manufacturers on the market in Thailand.

About the Sachs X-Road 250 you're completely right, so when will it be available in Thailand? And did I not read before that the 250cc engine was designed by Tiger Motorcycles, does Tiger exports this machines to Australia? Sachs also has a few motorcycle models available do they also come available in Thailand?

Sachs X-road 250 should become available the first half of 2011- but i check back with them now to see what is current . Tiger designed the engine on the 250 x-road...but i mentioned that i am not sure if it was built by Tiger.

As you can see on the Sachs Bikes there are differences in manufacturing ...while the madass is to 80% Thai parts assembled here ,the X-road 250 is mostly imported parts assembled here.

Last i heard, that the first lot of X-roads are here already ( not sold as yet ) and on a recent Tiger Service Trip to Chiang Mai there was some x-road fieldtesting by Tiger Engineer & Chief Mechanic. That was on 1st February 2011 .

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[thaicbr]

"About the Sachs X-Road 250 you're completely right, so when will it be available in Thailand? And did I not read before that the 250cc engine was designed by Tiger Motorcycles, does Tiger exports this machines to Australia? Sachs also has a few motorcycle models available do they also come available in Thailand? "

No idea.. You seem to know about everything. I'm just asking

As for the engine, I think that Mbox was talking about the Thai X-road (which is in concept form only..still)

Your Business is to bring two parties together and your posting on here a foreign language forum...wow

Mods please delete this thread as it is a blatant commercial advert (which must be against the rules)

Edited February 14, 2011 by thaicbr

[mbox]

"About the Sachs X-Road 250 you're completely right, so when will it be available in Thailand? And did I not read before that the 250cc engine was designed by Tiger Motorcycles, does Tiger exports this machines to Australia? Sachs also has a few motorcycle models available do they also come available in Thailand? "

No idea.. You seem to know about everything. I'm just asking

As for the engine, I think that Mbox was talking about the Thai X-road (which is in concept form only..still)

Your Business is to bring two parties together and your posting on here a foreign language forum...wow

Mods please delete this thread as it is a blatant commercial advert (which must be against the rules)

+1

sneaky advertising Campaign for Lifan

[LivinLOS]

"About the Sachs X-Road 250 you're completely right, so when will it be available in Thailand? And did I not read before that the 250cc engine was designed by Tiger Motorcycles, does Tiger exports this machines to Australia? Sachs also has a few motorcycle models available do they also come available in Thailand? "

No idea.. You seem to know about everything. I'm just asking

As for the engine, I think that Mbox was talking about the Thai X-road (which is in concept form only..still)

Your Business is to bring two parties together and your posting on here a foreign language forum...wow

Mods please delete this thread as it is a blatant commercial advert (which must be against the rules)

+1

sneaky advertising Campaign for Lifan

-1.. And you have a Tiger commercial interest.

We are all big boys and can make our own minds up on the validity of information.. Richard has posted enough things that haven't made it to market that anyone can choose what to take as firm and what as possible.

[thaicbr]

"About the Sachs X-Road 250 you're completely right, so when will it be available in Thailand? And did I not read before that the 250cc engine was designed by Tiger Motorcycles, does Tiger exports this machines to Australia? Sachs also has a few motorcycle models available do they also come available in Thailand? "

No idea.. You seem to know about everything. I'm just asking

As for the engine, I think that Mbox was talking about the Thai X-road (which is in concept form only..still)

Your Business is to bring two parties together and your posting on here a foreign language forum...wow

Mods please delete this thread as it is a blatant commercial advert (which must be against the rules)

+1

sneaky advertising Campaign for Lifan

-1.. And you have a Tiger commercial interest.

We are all big boys and can make our own minds up on the validity of information.. Richard has posted enough things that haven't made it to market that anyone can choose what to take as firm and what as possible.

And the difference is that Tiger sachs club was a sponsor here on TV. Richard has never been one. No one knows who he works for or why he posts.. we can make speculation.. it still does not stop the fact that .. Richard is asking for clients here on TV. Which as far as i'm aware is against the rules.

[Richard-BKK]

First to clear the air - hereby the first official communication I received.

-------------------------------------------

Dear Sir

Good day

First, my name is Sam from FYM & Sachs Bikes Company. We are Sachs Bikes manufacture and supplier in China. The model Madass, X-road and Kikass are supplied by our factory

In Thailand we used to cooperate with Tiger Motor, but no more now. However, we know in Thailand there are still large fans of Madass, Kikass, and maybe X-road too. So we plan to find another partner to continue these products in Thailand.

so we may ask your help to supply us some motorcycle distributors information and contact. will you be pleasure to do that, or if you have other good suggestion to us

i am look forward to you

regards

sam

--------------------------------------------

[Richard-BKK]

"About the Sachs X-Road 250 you're completely right, so when will it be available in Thailand? And did I not read before that the 250cc engine was designed by Tiger Motorcycles, does Tiger exports this machines to Australia? Sachs also has a few motorcycle models available do they also come available in Thailand? "

No idea.. You seem to know about everything. I'm just asking

As for the engine, I think that Mbox was talking about the Thai X-road (which is in concept form only..still)

Your Business is to bring two parties together and your posting on here a foreign language forum...wow

Mods please delete this thread as it is a blatant commercial advert (which must be against the rules)

+1

sneaky advertising Campaign for Lifan

-1.. And you have a Tiger commercial interest.

We are all big boys and can make our own minds up on the validity of information.. Richard has posted enough things that haven't made it to market that anyone can choose what to take as firm and what as possible.

And the difference is that Tiger sachs club was a sponsor here on TV. Richard has never been one. No one knows who he works for or why he posts.. we can make speculation.. it still does not stop the fact that .. Richard is asking for clients here on TV. Which as far as i'm aware is against the rules.

I'm only posting the information because it has a news value to the topic Bike in Thailand. Sachs Bikes are sold in Thailand and therefore the news value is surely on topic (I believe).

[thaicbr]

That would be ok IF you had not then tried garnering information about new partners.

Personally though having read that email. I would have serious reservations about dealing with a company that can not even provide a surname or reference to his position in the company. Also before you posted did you in fact check to see if it was real. by contacting Tiger or the owner of the Sachs name (which may or may not be this company)

[Richard-BKK]

That would be ok IF you had not then tried garnering information about new partners.

Personally though having read that email. I would have serious reservations about dealing with a company that can not even provide a surname or reference to his position in the company. Also before you posted did you in fact check to see if it was real. by contacting Tiger or the owner of the Sachs name (which may or may not be this company)

I have full detail of the contact, including surname. I removed them, the person send me the communication, and I'm sure that Tiger Motor knows who the person is. If not I'm willing to share that information with them...

Board rules prevent me to publish business contact information, if I did, I would be conducting commercial activities, or not?

No I did not discussed the information with Tiger Motor. Yes, I verified that the person from who I got the communication was working for the people who make the decisions of distribution rights. I even have pictures of the person who contacted me signing distribution contracts with companies in other ASEAN countries.

[mbox]

So having had some feedback i try to elaborate this a bit. All in all it is a confuse situation.

Firstly, Tiger explained they discontinued cooperation with FYM FYM had a Main Shareholder in SFM (aka Sachs) a Chinese/Hongkong owned Investment group , this main shareholder has however sold most of his shares in FYM.

The Model's Kikass , Madass & X-road will still be sold/buil/assembled/distributed by Tiger Motors in Thailand . But under a differnet Brand-name.

FYM will discontinue the Brand Name Sachs by September this year as well , possible new name is Sachxxx.

Yes, the X-road 250 is still to come and is guessed , by or shortly after, the BKK Bikeshow available.

Obviously there is a lot more to it but it may be mis-understood as badmouthing some Company which i am not going to.

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[thaicbr]

I know who it is you only have to look at the chinese selling sites to see it. Also you only have to look at the same sites to see that the Sachs products in Thailand are somewhat different to the chinese products eg upside down forks and rear rack on the Tiger. Not on the chinese bikes.

So i would conclude that the Thai ones have a larger amount of Thai sourced products.

We will wait and see what happens.. I would think that the Chinese will find it pretty hard to find a factory / assembler here in Thailand. So good luck in your search.

I am still not sure if the company you mentioned is in fact the owner of the Sachs name!

[mbox]

I know who it is you only have to look at the chinese selling sites to see it. Also you only have to look at the same sites to see that the Sachs products in Thailand are somewhat different to the chinese products eg upside down forks and rear rack on the Tiger. Not on the chinese bikes.

So i would conclude that the Thai ones have a larger amount of Thai sourced products.

We will wait and see what happens.. I would think that the Chinese will find it pretty hard to find a factory / assembler here in Thailand. So good luck in your search.

I am still not sure if the company you mentioned is in fact the owner of the Sachs name!

Thaicbr,

FYM is not owner of the Sachs or SFM .

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[mbox]

That would be ok IF you had not then tried garnering information about new partners.

Personally though having read that email. I would have serious reservations about dealing with a company that can not even provide a surname or reference to his position in the company. Also before you posted did you in fact check to see if it was real. by contacting Tiger or the owner of the Sachs name (which may or may not be this company)

I have full detail of the contact, including surname. I removed them, the person send me the communication, and I'm sure that Tiger Motor knows who the person is. If not I'm willing to share that information with them...

Board rules prevent me to publish business contact information, if I did, I would be conducting commercial activities, or not?

No I did not discussed the information with Tiger Motor. Yes, I verified that the person from who I got the communication was working for the people who make the decisions of distribution rights. I even have pictures of the person who contacted me signing distribution contracts with companies in other ASEAN countries.

No need to share them they already know....obviously the person is desperate, Tiger sourced now direct at the manufacturers .

Good luck in finding someone for FYM here in Thailand.

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[Richard-BKK]

That would be ok IF you had not then tried garnering information about new partners.

Personally though having read that email. I would have serious reservations about dealing with a company that can not even provide a surname or reference to his position in the company. Also before you posted did you in fact check to see if it was real. by contacting Tiger or the owner of the Sachs name (which may or may not be this company)

I have full detail of the contact, including surname. I removed them, the person send me the communication, and I'm sure that Tiger Motor knows who the person is. If not I'm willing to share that information with them...

Board rules prevent me to publish business contact information, if I did, I would be conducting commercial activities, or not?

No I did not discussed the information with Tiger Motor. Yes, I verified that the person from who I got the communication was working for the people who make the decisions of distribution rights. I even have pictures of the person who contacted me signing distribution contracts with companies in other ASEAN countries.

No need to share them they already know....obviously the person is desperate, Tiger sourced now direct at the manufacturers .

Good luck in finding someone for FYM here in Thailand.

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Thanks for wishing me luck, but normally I not need luck. Second I'm not looking for a company or person who has the capability to do production. If you read everything before you would know that they are looking for a DISTRIBUTOR (nothing more, nothing less).

Production of MadAss, Kikas, X-Road and ZR/ZZ models can be happening in any ASEAN country as import duties on motorcycles below 250cc can benefit from the special arrangements in the ASEAN free-trade-rules.

I also know some insides... and I will not be surprised that in a few months everybody will be around the same table and the Malaysian Momos MadAss, the Thai “Tiger” MadAss, and all other MadAss'es around will all be named the same again... and Everyone Lives Happily Ever After...

Anyway multiple manufacturers who all make the same model.... probably not so good for market confident in the product(s)...

“obviously the person is desperate”

Often desperate people pay pretty good...

[thaicbr]

IF i was buying i would still want the Thai Madass as it has a higher spec than the Momos (chinese) model.

But as you say we will see if the Sachs name will even exist let alone be be used by a Chinese company here in Thailand.

Also China is NOT a member of ASEAN

Edited February 14, 2011 by thaicbr

[Richard-BKK]

IF i was buying i would still want the Thai Madass as it has a higher spec than the Momos (chinese) model.

But as you say we will see if the Sachs name will even exist let alone be be used by a Chinese company here in Thailand.

Hmmm ThaiCBR,

The Momos MadAss is the Malaysian version, which has a closer relation with the Thai version... If you ask me, the whole thing about the MadAss is MadNess...

Edited February 14, 2011 by Richard-BKK

[Richard-BKK]

Also China is NOT a member of ASEAN

Yes, you're right. China is not, same as India which is also not an ASEAN member country. Still with both countries Thailand has a free-trade-agreement, which include motorcycles powered with an engine less than 250cc. Kawasaki is using the rules to export the Ninja 250R to India...

[thaicbr]

Also China is NOT a member of ASEAN

Yes, you're right. China is not, same as India which is also not an ASEAN member country. Still with both countries Thailand has a free-trade-agreement, which include motorcycles powered with an engine less than 250cc. Kawasaki is using the rules to export the Ninja 250R to India...

True dat

[mbox]

That would be ok IF you had not then tried garnering information about new partners.

Personally though having read that email. I would have serious reservations about dealing with a company that can not even provide a surname or reference to his position in the company. Also before you posted did you in fact check to see if it was real. by contacting Tiger or the owner of the Sachs name (which may or may not be this company)

I have full detail of the contact, including surname. I removed them, the person send me the communication, and I'm sure that Tiger Motor knows who the person is. If not I'm willing to share that information with them...

Board rules prevent me to publish business contact information, if I did, I would be conducting commercial activities, or not?

No I did not discussed the information with Tiger Motor. Yes, I verified that the person from who I got the communication was working for the people who make the decisions of distribution rights. I even have pictures of the person who contacted me signing distribution contracts with companies in other ASEAN countries.

Thanks for wishing me luck, but normally I not need luck. Second I'm not looking for a company or person who has the capability to do production. If you read everything before you would know that they are looking for a DISTRIBUTOR (nothing more, nothing less).

Production of MadAss, Kikas, X-Road and ZR/ZZ models can be happening in any ASEAN country as import duties on motorcycles below 250cc can benefit from the special arrangements in the ASEAN free-trade-rules.

I also know some insides... and I will not be surprised that in a few months everybody will be around the same table and the Malaysian Momos MadAss, the Thai "Tiger" MadAss, and all other MadAss'es around will all be named the same again... and Everyone Lives Happily Ever After...

Anyway multiple manufacturers who all make the same model.... probably not so good for market confident in the product(s)...

"obviously the person is desperate"

Often desperate people pay pretty good...

Richard,

Fym had parts supplied from other manufacturers ( ask the suppliers if they got paid?)

Fym got payment from Companys for Bikes to be sent ( ask them what they received?)

You need luck in whatever you have been promised

The part manufacturers are still the same but FYM seems to be out of the game now ( well they outed themselfs)....but good on you for trusting them.

Desperate people may pay well...if they pay.

happy Valentines is calling...and it ain't gonna happen on the PC

have a great day everyone & your loved ones,

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