Ex-Landlord Threatening To Go To Police

[davedragonfly]

Hi

I rented a house with 4 other people until a few months ago. A couch worth just under 20k was damaged during the year that we rented the house. We have all moved out to separate locations now, and nobody has been willing to put up the cash for the couch and the landlord is threatening that he will take the matter to the police.

The issue is this:

• None of us believe that we are responsible for the damage.
• We are all poor students and can't afford the replacement.

What is the worst that can happen if this landlord carries through with his threat?

Thanks.

[Mario2008]

It is not a criminal offense, but a civil one. You seem to agree that the couch was damaged, so the person(s) on the rental contract is/are responsible for the damage.

Coming to an agreement would be better to avoid legal costs. Also look at how damaged the couch is, is it necessary to buy a new one or not. How old was it and what would have been its expected life. For a very old couch it would be too much to pay the full price.

[robblok]

It was damaged just pay up. If the landlords decides to pay the police a bit it could get bad for you guys.

[Berkshire]

Wasn't there a rental deposit? Unless the damage exceeded the deposit amount by a sizable margin....?

[davedragonfly]

thanks for your replies.

A Thai friend of mine reckons that we should just ignore it and call his bluff because the cost of actually taking legal action is more than the value of the couch.

What do you think?

[davedragonfly]

We used our deposit to pay for the last month's rent, so he's not holding any of our cash.

Do you reckon re-upholstering the couch would be a cheaper option, and if so, do you have any idea as to how could I find out how and where this be done?

Thanks, I really appreciate the replies!

[MrMakMak]

just ignore it. First he should of checked the house and kept your deposit if anything was broken, if it exceeded the amount its worth, that's not your problem. The rental contract will take care of this. If he did not put a clause that says you should pay the fair value for every damage you caused, you don't have to pay anything. Thai landlord are rather dumb at making contract, they make it easy for them to steal the small money you leave them, but they dont insure themselves against theft or damage to valuable items(if there's any)

also remember, a 20k couch is no designer couch, after 1 year it's already not worth more than 10k and if its older than that.. not worth more than 5k for sure.

My rental is almost finished and my cat destroyed almost all of the couch, rental agreement has nothing in it about damages, so i will sue my landlord if he doesn't give me back 100% of it but this is because this idiot let people inside the house to "clean" while i was away and they stole 100k worth of perfume and made the house more dirty than it was.

on a last note, my guess is anyways you overpaid your rent as we almost all do. so dont feel bad

[robblok]

Hmm some people seem to think its fair to rip of a landlord. But i bet they would cry a lot when the shoe was on the other foot.

Of course you should not have to pay full value but if you damaged it you should pay. I really hope the guy has some pull and gets you guys.

I believe in being fair and in this case the landlord is in the right (unless he wants new value for it)

[dave111223]

It's not a matter for the police. He could file some kind of civil suit against you to make you pay for the couch, but at that point you could choose to either fight it or pay up the 20K.

Either way there is no action required on your part until you are served with the court notice documents etc... (which would probably be never).

[theoldgit]

When you say it was worth 20k, was that what it cost when it was new? if so old do you think it was? Do you think the damage could be put down to normal wear and tear? if not then maybe you all should make a realistic offer based on the age of the sofa and what could realistically be regarded as it's life expectancy.

[Tonto21]

Davedragonfly……..Bummer!

You admit there is some damage, right, but not only will no one take responsibility, you all actually believe that none of you are responsible………….it would appear you and you house mates have managed to adopted Thai culture pretty quick, well done for that.

Simple, go and talk to the bloke, haggle out a deal, get a grip of your x-house mates and pay the guy or, ignore the landlords request, keep on thinking “what’s the worst he can do” for a while till, possibly the crappola hits the fan…………………Up to you.

Poor students....What has that got to do with your topic?

[steelepulse]

A few of thousand baht should be enough to reupholster and keep both parties happy. If nothing else, buy a used one from craigslist or whatever and replace the one that was damaged. Why not do the right and responsible thing?

[Semper]

just ignore it. First he should of checked the house and kept your deposit if anything was broken, if it exceeded the amount its worth, that's not your problem. The rental contract will take care of this. If he did not put a clause that says you should pay the fair value for every damage you caused, you don't have to pay anything. Thai landlord are rather dumb at making contract, they make it easy for them to steal the small money you leave them, but they dont insure themselves against theft or damage to valuable items(if there's any)

also remember, a 20k couch is no designer couch, after 1 year it's already not worth more than 10k and if its older than that.. not worth more than 5k for sure.

My rental is almost finished and my cat destroyed almost all of the couch, rental agreement has nothing in it about damages, so i will sue my landlord if he doesn't give me back 100% of it but this is because this idiot let people inside the house to "clean" while i was away and they stole 100k worth of perfume and made the house more dirty than it was.

on a last note, my guess is anyways you overpaid your rent as we almost all do. so dont feel bad

Good luck with that

[davedragonfly]

We have been told that the value of the couch was 12k when the landlord bought it. It was supposed to have been new, but he bought it at some temple sale which probably meant that it was second hand even then. When asking, he could not produce an invoice and he says that this couch is "one of a kind."

I have no gripes about being an ass_hole to this landlord. Some other mates had been renting another house owned by him and between us our water pumps broke down 4 times. They broke because they were the crappest Chinese pumps that money could buy, and weren't suited to a 4 story house. Wear and tear is his onus to fix, but after the first two times they broke he did not reply to our request for him to fix them, and we were forced to pay ourselves.

Robblok: I completely understand and agree that one should be fair and honest in ones dealings, but in this case the phrase "som nam na" comes to mind.

About the couch: A cat urinated on it and then my house mates decided that putting vinegar and some white chemical thing on to it would clean it. Of course it didn't work, and the couch is now stained and smelly.

Our options seem to be this:

• Try to clean or repair the couch. (only problem being that a clean may not return it to an acceptable state)
• Pay the 12k
• Pay a fairer value of the couch
• Wait to be served court notice documents and then come to a compromise

Which option would you take?

Thanks!

[robblok]

We have been told that the value of the couch was 12k when the landlord bought it. It was supposed to have been new, but he bought it at some temple sale which probably meant that it was second hand even then. When asking, he could not produce an invoice and he says that this couch is "one of a kind."

I have no gripes about being an ass_hole to this landlord. Some other mates had been renting another house owned by him and between us our water pumps broke down 4 times. They broke because they were the crappest Chinese pumps that money could buy, and weren't suited to a 4 story house. Wear and tear is his onus to fix, but after the first two times they broke he did not reply to our request for him to fix them, and we were forced to pay ourselves.

Robblok: I completely understand and agree that one should be fair and honest in ones dealings, but in this case the phrase "som nam na" comes to mind.

About the couch: A cat urinated on it and then my house mates decided that putting vinegar and some white chemical thing on to it would clean it. Of course it didn't work, and the couch is now stained and smelly.

Our options seem to be this:

• Try to clean or repair the couch. (only problem being that a clean may not return it to an acceptable state)
• Pay the 12k
• Pay a fairer value of the couch
• Wait to be served court notice documents and then come to a compromise

Which option would you take?

Thanks!

I think you dont understand the concept of som nam na. It means that if you did something bad and it came back at you. The landlord did not cheat you so no som nam na for him. However if you were served a court notice and you ended up paying loads of money it would be som nam na because you were trying to cheat him and it backfired.

I would go for paying fair value for the couch. I would not accept new value.

[davedragonfly]

Robblok: Its a tangential argument, but we were cheated when the landlord refused to replace the broken water pumps... twice. We were without water for a week, and we used our money to replace the pumps. If he ends up paying for a new couch then that returns the scales to 0.

I appreciate your input however, and as you wrote; if this actually does go legal then we stand to lose more. The question is whether he actually will take it that far. Would it be worth it for 12k?

[pjclark1]

In the UK landlords write off furniture over 3-5 years (depending on its use).

After 5 years no household furniture is considered to have any value.

If it's older than 5 years then its value is nothing (only a fool would put unique furniture in a rental)

Ask to see the original receipt for the item.

If he can't produce it, assume it's old and worthless.

[IanForbes]

When you say it was worth 20k, was that what it cost when it was new? if so old do you think it was? Do you think the damage could be put down to normal wear and tear? if not then maybe you all should make a realistic offer based on the age of the sofa and what could realistically be regarded as it's life expectancy.

That is the same principle that I used with lawyers about my ex-wife. She was worth a fortune when we first got together, but after 20 years whe wasn't worth zilch. Unfortunately, that is not what the court decided. They figured she deserved half of everything that I had paid for. Never trust those dam_n courts.

[robblok]

Robblok: Its a tangential argument, but we were cheated when the landlord refused to replace the broken water pumps... twice. We were without water for a week, and we used our money to replace the pumps. If he ends up paying for a new couch then that returns the scales to 0.

I appreciate your input however, and as you wrote; if this actually does go legal then we stand to lose more. The question is whether he actually will take it that far. Would it be worth it for 12k?

That changes the story of course but how you presented it at first id go for the landlord.

I don't know if its worth going to court for only 12k if he can get verdict that makes you pay for court costs too then yes. Else of course not.

[Bagwan]

Robblok: Its a tangential argument, but we were cheated when the landlord refused to replace the broken water pumps... twice. We were without water for a week, and we used our money to replace the pumps. If he ends up paying for a new couch then that returns the scales to 0.

I appreciate your input however, and as you wrote; if this actually does go legal then we stand to lose more. The question is whether he actually will take it that far. Would it be worth it for 12k?

If he sues then counter sue for the costs of the pumps - or take the pump with you.

[alantheembalmer]

Why don't you try and come to a reasonable arrangement with the landlord i.e. the inconvenience of no water, and the cost of replacing the water pumps, is equal to the damage to the settee? That way both parties come out of the situation without losing face.

Alan

[whybother]

Start with the value of the couch. Reduce it for normal wear and tear and age. Reduce that by the what you spent on the water pumps and your inconvenience.

If he can't prove the cost of the couch, see if you can find something similar in one of the furniture stores (don't go to too much effort ofcourse).

See what he says about that. Do it in writing so that if he goes to court you can show what you offered and reasoning for it.

[Heng]

Barking dogs tend not to bite. I'd be more concerned with folks that don't threaten in general (much less threaten to get the police involved).

[inmysights]

'What will happen'. Sod all.

But just have a whip round to appease please.

[mstribling]

What is the worst thing that could happen?

Well he could easily stash a bag of ice in the house. Say these dirty white boys just moved out, and he "found" this. Him and the cops could gave a wink-wink moment and there you go. The worst thing that could happen.

Why?

Because you 'tards tried to clean cat piss with vinegar, and now between 4 men you can't pool together 12k.

[pjclark1]

Don't forget that income tax on rental properties in Thailand is 15%.

I'm willing to bet he didn't report the rental earnings to the local tax office.

Ask him if he minds you informing the local tax office?

He goes to police, you go to tax office!

[davedragonfly]

Start with the value of the couch. Reduce it for normal wear and tear and age. Reduce that by the what you spent on the water pumps and your inconvenience.

If he can't prove the cost of the couch, see if you can find something similar in one of the furniture stores (don't go to too much effort ofcourse).

See what he says about that. Do it in writing so that if he goes to court you can show what you offered and reasoning for it.

Don't forget that income tax on rental properties in Thailand is 15%.

I'm willing to bet he didn't report the rental earnings to the local tax office.

Ask him if he minds you informing the local tax office?

He goes to police, you go to tax office!

Alright Whybother, that makes sense. It is worth just 12k, so i'm hoping he reckons that the effort really outweighs the cost of going to court.

Its just the principle of sticking it to this prick which is motivating us

Pjclark, thanks for the idea. That may come in handy if things get sticky.

What i'll do then is ask for proof of the cost of the couch, reduce that amount for depreciation and the cost of the pumps, and see if he'll accept our new offer. If he refuses then we'll see how far he wants to take it.

Cheers.

[mstribling]

Would not advise being a snitch to the tax man. That is a road you do not want go down.

You guys will work it out.

[jimbeam1]

If I were you I would try and come to an agreement with him, as others have said. What is his character like, even more so what are his friends like? You are in a foriegn country, I would be very careful if I was you.

jb1

[glomp]

Offer him half, hold out the cash to him and say "we pay half and you never bother us again".

Seeing the cash up for grabs might just make him forget the other half as he might just be fishing anyway.