I Need A Little Help

[atlee]

Hi Guys,

I'm currently filling in Immagration forms 47SP, 40SP to migrate my spouse to Australia, There alot of hard work i have to put into this.

I've been told i need Justice of the peace to sign all Australian copies of the original documents to say they are copy of the real.

For e.g.

Copy of passport

Copy of Marriage certificate etc

Also been told i need to get all the copies of Thai documents translated in English and also Signed to say they are the copies of the original.

Where to translate documents in Thailand? Where do i get them stamped to say they are copies of the orignal? Thailand embassy i'm thinking?

<b>English translations</b>

Documents in languages other than English must be accompanied by an English translation. If you are applying in Australia, the translator must be accredited by the National Accreditation Authority for Translators and Interpreters (NAATI.)

I'll be submitting the documents in Thaliand.

If anyone can help me with this migration stuff, would be great. Also if you can help me on the (Evidence that your Relationship is Genuine)

My relationship is genuine, but what documents and proof will they look for, examples would be great.

Thanks in advance

Josh

Edited September 9, 2005 by atlee

[Mighty Mouse]

There are many Thai-English translation services in Thailand. Usually you will find "translation" signs in the windows of travel agent. (I'm referring to Pattaya where there are many such services in Soi Post Office.)

You need to ensure that the 'service' you choose uses a stamp that will be recognised by the Embassy. You should also shop around for the best price. Prices can vary quite dramitically. Three hundred baht, per paper, is considered a fair price to pay.

Papers that need to be copied in Australia, must be signed to verify that the copy is genuine and an exact copy of the original. The verifying person does not necessarily have to be a JP. There is a long list of acceptable people who can do it for you. Your local court house will provide JP's, but they will usually require that you use their photocopier to duplicate the papers, and they will charge you a fee for this service. If you only want your signature witnessed, they will do that for free.

Your best bet is to make your copies and take them and the original document to your local police station for verification. The Embassy will now accept the signature of any police officer, provided the papers are signed by the officer and stamped with the stations official stamp. The police don't charge for this service.

Evidence of genuine relationship needs to be strong. A marriage certificate alone is not considered strong enough.

You need to show the Embassy that you have been together for at least two years, that the relationship is genuine and continuing.

Letters, copies of emails, dated photographs etc. are all helpful. The Embassy really loves the dated photographs, perhaps taken in front of some identifiable land mark, such as the Sydney Harbour Bridge, Opera House etc.

Any papers that show joint ownership of property is strong evidence. A certified copy of your Last Will and Testament showing her as the benefactor. If you visit licenced clubs and need to sign into the club, keep the dockets that shows time, date of visit. These dockets also contain your signatures.

Statutory declarations from friends, family and neighbours who can verify the length of time you and your wife have been together, and who are prepared to write a glowing opinion of your wife's suitability to be an Australian resident, is strong evidence.

What ever you produce, be sure you know/remember the details written in such documents/evidence, as you will both need to be interviewed and the Embassy staff are expert in knowing who is telling them a heap of BS.

Your spouse's background will be the main focus of these interviews.

The Embassy are basically trying to ascertain whether she intends to stay with you forever, or leave you once she obtains residency and apply for welfare. She then becomes another burdon on the tax payer.

I hope this helps you. Good luck.

[Jamnjam]

Mighty Mouse, you have given some excellent advice here.

I made the mistake four years ago by not being serious about the evidence needed to prove that my relationship with my Thai wife was genuine. The immigration process is ran by the government and as such it is a very impersonal and uncaring system. We just wanted to know what was best for us but we were left all alone trying to figure out what to do. In the end we submitted an application that was a sitting duck. We'd only been together for 3 months too.

Now wiser and 4 years later we are ready to try again. Gratefully I have found this forum to be an oasis of help.

Still things could be clearer for those not down with law.

What evidence can be used to determine the nature of our commitment to each other? We don't have much - no property, no car, no will - but I'll be doing one soon, though we don't really have much to give. The immi booklet for spouse visa states very little for this category.

We've lived together as a married couple for 4 years. We'd like to have our own child but we can only have a test tube baby. We'd like to do this once we are in Australia. She has twin boys that we have supported for 4 years. Is that not evidence of commitment? It seems to me that this category is unclear and too orientated about materilaistic wealth. It does state the extent to which we have combined our affairs - does this cover family affairs or is it just stuff like assets?

Another thing too, does anybody know how much is too much when writing the statement outlining our history together?

Do they just want to know the broad facts or a long winded biography?

Some people are generally saying the more the better but is this true for this written statement? The interviewer would probably take her ammo from these personally written statements too. I suppose the answer to my question is in the word 'statement'. I have no background in law but to me, the word statement conjures briefness and to the point. Any opinions appreciated.

Also the booklet states that having a joint bank account for a REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME is good evidence for the financial category. Is 6 months a reasonable period of time? The booklet has a defination for a substantial period of time but not for a reasonable period of time.

I think help on the all important evidence would be great. Has there been a previous discussion on this topic?

Good luck to all you couples trying to be united back in Oz.

Thanks guys.

[Sporting Dog]

All the Thai language documents we submitted were translated (there's lots of translators in BKK) and then taken to a Thai Govt Office to verify the translation. It might have been the office of Foreign Affairs - I'm sure someone else must know. It takes a few days and like everything to do with the visa, costs more than you expect. Also I was under the impression that the verification from the Thai Govt was a requirement for a Spouse Visa - but maybe not.

For evidence we had no joint bank accounts but had lived together for 18months in Thailand. We submitted photos, telephone bills, statements from friends and family, anything that showed the relationship was genuine. Also I think they make a judgement about the relationship based on the whole body of evidence you submit, so if its a bit lacking in some areas it can be overcome by having strong evidence in other areas.

As for length of statement - put yourself in their shoes. Be as brief as possible but make sure you clearly get your information across. Err on the side of comprehensiveness but try to only make statements that can be backed up by evidence. Lots of "We'll be together until our dying days" statements are a bit meaningless to the reader who doesn't know you from a bar of soap.

Make a big effort to get all the documents together and correct for when you submit your application - getting documents at later stages is a hassle and could slow down the process.

All copies of submitted documents from Australia need to be certified. The Embassy will certify Australian documents in BKK but there could be a charge. Keep a copy of all documents.

Oh and make sure you and your partner are fully aware of what you have written in all parts of your application - it won't look too great if they ask about something at the interview and your missus doesn't know what they are talking about!!

Good Luck

Edited September 24, 2006 by Sporting Dog

[Livinginexile]

Hi Josh

My wife just recieved her visa and all up it only took about 6 weeks.

Remember, what immigration want to see is "a committed and lasting relationship"

Gather everything that shows that you have been sharing a committed relationship with each other and then get everything certified, I got all my certifications done by my local member...I think it helps when they see a politician's stamp on all your documents.

Also get as many stat dec's as you can from friends that have seen you together and can vouch for your "committed relationship". They say 2 minimum but I gave them 5. Again, I got my local member to wittness all the stat dec's.

Here is a little trick. My wife out of the blue wrote an email to John Howard (he has a web page where you can do this) telling him she loved one of his citizens and felt that the Australian system was keeping us apart. It was a long letter. When she told me what she had done I told her for sure that would be the end of it because she was not even an Australian citizen. Low and behold, about 2 weeks later she got a letter (not email) from the minister of multi cultural affairs telling her what she must do...wishing her the best of luck. This letter was really personal and obviously dictated or written himself. I was absolutely shocked. It even started with "the prime minister has forwarded to me your email because it falls into my..."

Anyway we included the letter in our application. I really think it helped because it looked like we had the minister on our case....try it.

Keep us informed dude and best of luck

[Jockstar]

hey say 2 minimum but I gave them 5

They dont say that. They say that you will know within 9 months. But its is usually quicker.ie with in 5 months. The wifes took 3 months 3 weeks. Every case is different. Bare that in mind when you apply!

Edited September 24, 2006 by Jockstar

[Mighty Mouse]

Jamnjam, you state that your first application for a visa was rejected. This would still show on the immigration computer records so your next application needs to be spot on.

With all the water that has flowed under the bridge since your first application, you should now be able to put together a most convincing argument about the genuineness and strength of your on-going relationship.

Both Livinginexile and Sporting Dog have given some excellent advice taken from their experiences in dealing with the embassy.

Evidence from others about the strength of your relationship cannot be reputed, therefore you need to ask your friends, family, neighbours, government officials with whom you have had dealings, to supply statements/stat.decs. on their opinion of your relationship. Provide as many as you can.

You would then supplement these with a comprehensive written submission of your own, outlining the positives of the last four years with your partner, and your future plans together.

Your partner should do the same with her own written (and translated) submission.

Stick to the facts, no long winded biography.

You don't need to jointly own property to be convincing in your submission. The fact that you support her children is excellent evidence of commitment. Your joint bank account is also good evidence of commitment.

You pay the rent and take care of all household debt, so outline this in your submission.

You should be able to provide ample evidence that you socialise together. Photos can help here.

Explain how you interact with her family and if you assist them in any way, (eg. financially) give an explanation.

If there are any doubts in the minds of those at the embassy who read your application, these doubts will be addressed at the interview by way of questions.

It is therefore advisable that you write out a list of likely questions that your partner might be asked and coach her in the best way of answering them.

She will certainly be asked some questions about you, how you earn your income, about your family members and probably some questions about Australia.

You should then fire these questions at her until she can answer them properly without thinking, so by the time she gets into the official interview, she will have confidence.

The best advice that I can give you is to take your time compiling your application and that you present it properly. No need for an index, just make sure that it is neat and that everything that needs translating/verification has been done.

Some people stick their photographs on a separate sheet of paper and write a small note alongside them stating date taken, location and circumstances. Photos of you both with your respective family members is strong evidence of family acceptance.

Please keep us informed of your progress.

[gburns57au]

Just adding to this....A marriage certificate, certified copy or not is not acceptable as proof of marriage....you will need a wedding extract from the Dept of Births, Deaths and Marriages.

[Vegemite]

Anything with your address on is good. Snail mail envelopes or courier packs, stamped.

Photos are good to.

I went through it in N.Z. so maybe similar.

At the interview we were asked ( seperately ) to draw a picture of our bedroom.

The interviewer was from India and I was waiting for the question about underwear colours but it never came.

I found it to be a humiliating experience and basically threatened the Indian with marriage ( my wife and I ).

The interview was terminated and it took 2 1/2 years to get permanent residence.

Keep on thier back if they muck you around and phone the immigration as often as you want, every time that you phone it is recorded on the computer. Dont forget that it is a government department and as such they have to follow certain guide lines wether the person you are dealing with likes you or not.

I talked with some real sh#ts of the highest order but also some very helpfull people at THE DEPARTMENT.

A friend of mine told me " you can either kiss arse or kick it ". He kissed it all the way through and got permanent residence 6 months before us.

I could never do it that way.

In the end it has been worth it for sure for me. My wife is a great lady.

Make sure you tick ALL the boxes.

Sorry to ramble. Hope it helps and best of luck.

[Sporting Dog]

Just adding to this....A marriage certificate, certified copy or not is not acceptable as proof of marriage....you will need a wedding extract from the Dept of Births, Deaths and Marriages.

...and...

If you are in Thailand and someone else has to go to Births, Deaths and Marriages, you will need to send/fax signed authority for them to be able to pick up the extract. Then they will have to get the copies certified (unless you want to give the embassy the original).

See - piece o' piss.

Edited September 26, 2006 by Sporting Dog

[Jamnjam]

Thanks for the confident boost guys!

Just trying to document a mountain of digital photos together, but today my old computer system lost half its RAM. Has anybody submitted DVD videos and DVD photo slides? I'm planning too along with some prints as well. Back in 2005 I bought a video camera for the wife to take videos of family in Thailand. I wasn't thinking at the time that it would create useful evidence for the visa application. But looking at it now, I see that it has created a lot of evidence.

We'll be visiting Bangkok to get custody papers, passport for the kids and police and medical checks. We're living in Nakhonsitammarat in the south so we'll try to do all these drawn out things in one go. I'll have to check up on the medical tests again. Some threads are saying that the tests are sent straight to the embassy.

In terms of certifying documents copied in Thailand I was thinking of my manager in the school I work at. Its a very well known school (Benjamaratchutit School) and they can stamp it with the school stamp. Has anybody done this before?

Anyway thanks again for all the great tips you guys keep posting.

Cheers!

James and Jamaree.

[Sporting Dog]

I think you will need the docs to be certified at the embassy - It may be a well known school in NST but I doubt the embassy will be aware of it. My wife took docs in for certification, when she mentioned they were for a spouse application they waived the fees. However the embassy isn't the easiest place to get into but they will certify documents - maybe only between certain hours.

Photos are good but just give them a cross-section - different things showing the passing of time together. I don't think they need 30 photos of the holiday in Phuket, 40 pics of the trip to Australia etc...just a couple of each 'event' showing BOTH of you in the pics.

I think medical tests are sent straight to the Embassy. Thats what they did in our case - I guess its to stop people tampering with them. Its a bit of a worry because they get to the embassy before the application goes in (ours did anyway) and we thought they may get lost. No problems tho'.

Good luck

[Mighty Mouse]

I agree with the advice given by Sporting Dog.

I'm sure your case officer will not be interested in sitting through travel videos, or slides.

If you take your DVD's to most photographic shops they can extract a few photos and print them onto photographic paper for presentation.

With regard to certifying copies in Australia, the embassy have enlarged the types of professions whose certification they will accept. I'm not sure what the current attitude is for copies made in Thailand.

I suggest that you contact them by phone and ask.

Click here for details.

[vinny]

See also Requirements for certifying documents - agent FAQS

Within Australia, documents must be certified by people before whom a statutory declaration can be made. See: Schedule 2, Statutory Declarations Regulations 1993

Outside Australia, documents may be certified as being true copies of originals by people or agencies recognised by the law of the person's home country.

[Jamnjam]

I'll throw in the DVDs anyway. I've been editiing them afor ages now, slimming them down and cutting out the junk. They contain loads of evidence, especially socialising at budist events, cycling to China together, family day trips, holidays, weekend trips, birthdays, family visits etc. They also convey the closeness of the family. I can't imagine anyone looking at them for long but I would expect that they'd skim through them. That alone should be enough to convey the closeness of the relationship. It's also easy to date and add text to the digital picture.

But I'll definately take the advice and compile a timeline of hard prints that just show a couple of pics for each event. That's been in the planning too.

Anyway the whole process seems like a hel_l of a job.

I've also asked more questions about certifying documents in Thailand. People have been telling me that lawyers can. My wife is finishing a law degree and has contact with a few lawyers that come in to teach time-to-time. We'll go talk to one one of these guys. Being so far from Bangkok, I'd rather find an option of certifying documents here in NST.

Also do statements from Thai relatives need to be witnessed. The Australian Statutory form asks for a witness to sign that they have witnessed the trueness of the declaration. Did you guys have relatives go to the embassy to do this? Or is it not necessary to have witnesses for each declaration made by Thai relatives. So many questions - enough to give a guy a headache.

Thanks once again.

Cheers,

Jamaree and James.

[gburns57au]

Also do statements from Thai relatives need to be witnessed. The Australian Statutory form asks for a witness to sign that they have witnessed the trueness of the declaration. Did you guys have relatives go to the embassy to do this? Or is it not necessary to have witnesses for each declaration made by Thai relatives. So many questions - enough to give a guy a headache.

Thanks once again.

Cheers,

Jamaree and James.

I would say the answer to this is yes...

And even if the answer is no...having them witnessed is going to do no harm to your application.

[Mighty Mouse]

Also do statements from Thai relatives need to be witnessed. The Australian Statutory form asks for a witness to sign that they have witnessed the trueness of the declaration.

If the statements from any person are written on a statutory declaration form, the statement must be witnessed by a prescribed person under the Statutory Declarations Regulations 1993 (the Regulations) (usually a JP.) Statutory declarations are regarded as sworn evidence.

Your relatives are under no obligation to use statutory declaration forms. A simple typed and signed statement will suffice.

It may not have quite the same impact as a Stat. Dec. but that choice is yours. The embassy will accept either format.

[gburns57au]

Also do statements from Thai relatives need to be witnessed. The Australian Statutory form asks for a witness to sign that they have witnessed the trueness of the declaration.

If the statements from any person are written on a statutory declaration form, the statement must be witnessed by a prescribed person under the Statutory Declarations Regulations 1993 (the Regulations) (usually a JP.) Statutory declarations are regarded as sworn evidence.

Your relatives are under no obligation to use statutory declaration forms. A simple typed and signed statement will suffice.

It may not have quite the same impact as a Stat. Dec. but that choice is yours. The embassy will accept either format.

But in Thailand for Thai relatives the same may not apply

[Jamnjam]

I've just come back from Bangkok after 3 manic days in Bangkok. We managed to get everything done as planned but local Thai authorities were making it twice as difficult. The best thing that we did was to scope out everything and place on the first day. Things change all the time. Both the translator office we were using and the passport office had moved.

The hardest thing was getting passports for the step sons (twins). The passport division put us on a wild goose chase. In the end we had to get the boys father to meet us twice at a local authority building to get documents written and witnessed to prove a) he is the real father (my wife had never married him and the birth certificates wern't enough) and he gives consent for his boys to get a passport and migrate to Australia with my wife and I. All this had to go along with copies of the father's ID card and House card. We also asked about witnessing declarations made by Thai people. They told us that it was our business and that they only had to be signed by the person making the declaration along with copies of ID card and house card. Government officials only sign official documents given out by official bodies like the passport office etc. Anyway we got the boys father to sign his own statement as well.

We then raced back to the passport office in the slowest taxi ever to make it with 10 minutes to spare. It was now Friday with a long weekend ahead. However the lady at the front desk gave us a hard time. She wanted to see the real ID card of the father. She told us we had to follow her rule. A typical problem when dealing with government workers. My wife managed to convince her that we'll show the real card when we pick up the passports and she finally let us in. Once inside we didn't need the original ID card. The copies were enough. So the passports will be sent out in 5 days. Tip: Be well prepared and don't give up in the face of front desk clerks who are on the bottom of the pecking order.

Another little problem. Make sure that the wife's passport has her new married surname (if she changed her maiden name that is) in it. We couldn't use it to get police clearance certificate. Fortunately it only took two hours to have the name change amended to her passport. The police were by far the best to work with.

The BNH hospital was fantastic. Nice lounge with free coffee and cakes - the only place we had time to relax. This hospital is only 500 m from the Australian embassy.

If our application is successful I'll post up everything we got done for my wife and her sons to migrate to Oz. We'll also get official paperwork as evidence that we've looked after her sons for the previous 4 years too. We plan on submitting everything on 10th November 2006.

Best of luck to All.

Jamaree and James.

[gburns57au]

I've just come back from Bangkok after 3 manic days in Bangkok. We managed to get everything done as planned but local Thai authorities were making it twice as difficult. The best thing that we did was to scope out everything and place on the first day. Things change all the time. Both the translator office we were using and the passport office had moved.

The hardest thing was getting passports for the step sons (twins). The passport division put us on a wild goose chase. In the end we had to get the boys father to meet us twice at a local authority building to get documents written and witnessed to prove a) he is the real father (my wife had never married him and the birth certificates wern't enough) and he gives consent for his boys to get a passport and migrate to Australia with my wife and I. All this had to go along with copies of the father's ID card and House card. We also asked about witnessing declarations made by Thai people. They told us that it was our business and that they only had to be signed by the person making the declaration along with copies of ID card and house card. Government officials only sign official documents given out by official bodies like the passport office etc. Anyway we got the boys father to sign his own statement as well.

We then raced back to the passport office in the slowest taxi ever to make it with 10 minutes to spare. It was now Friday with a long weekend ahead. However the lady at the front desk gave us a hard time. She wanted to see the real ID card of the father. She told us we had to follow her rule. A typical problem when dealing with government workers. My wife managed to convince her that we'll show the real card when we pick up the passports and she finally let us in. Once inside we didn't need the original ID card. The copies were enough. So the passports will be sent out in 5 days. Tip: Be well prepared and don't give up in the face of front desk clerks who are on the bottom of the pecking order.

Another little problem. Make sure that the wife's passport has her new married surname (if she changed her maiden name that is) in it. We couldn't use it to get police clearance certificate. Fortunately it only took two hours to have the name change amended to her passport. The police were by far the best to work with.

The BNH hospital was fantastic. Nice lounge with free coffee and cakes - the only place we had time to relax. This hospital is only 500 m from the Australian embassy.

If our application is successful I'll post up everything we got done for my wife and her sons to migrate to Oz. We'll also get official paperwork as evidence that we've looked after her sons for the previous 4 years too. We plan on submitting everything on 10th November 2006.

Best of luck to All.

Jamaree and James.

Good luck with it and look forward to your future contributions...

[aussiestyle1983]

Good on ya! I hope all goes well for yall. Keep us posted with the news.........................