JimsKnight Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 In the aftermath of an attempted robbery of the house I’m staying at I’ve decided to upgrade the security. Afterall I have a variety of expensive, ‘nickable’ items. To that end it's time to obtain and install a safe. Here's what happened: So I set out in the blazing hot day to scour the shops and stores nearby for a gun safe. It had to be affordable, fairly substantial and light enough to transport on my bike. It also had to have digital and a manual key override feature; as thieves often deliberately destroy the keypad in fustration when faced with one of these and without a key back-up your safe is locked forever... Within two day’s I’d found this one for 3300 baht, a bit over the odds but I’d haggled it down as far as the owner’s would go: Here's the stats on it: 16 kilo’s Digital Keypad Manual Key Shelf insert and carpet 4 x expanding masonry bolts You will need: A main’s powered drill with a varied array of masonry drill-bits A spanner or adjustable Rawplugs (in the case of breeze-block construction) A Hammer or suitable blunt instrument Pencil or other marking instrument Back at the ranch it was time to get cracking on installing it. I shouldn’t have to tell you that a safe isn’t much good if it isn’t anchored securely to something, preferably a wall and / or floor... Safe Location First thing it is to decide where you want it. For me it’s right at my bedside where I can get to it from being awoken from sleep etc. I was going to mount it at waist-height but decided upon the floor, this was partly to do with making it much harder for a thief to rip-out of the wall using levering tools and also it would be easier to install and remove at a later date. Next thing is to ‘match-mark’ where the holes that are set into the safe onto the wall itself. I just used a graphite pencil but you can use felt pen etc. This is probably the most important bit of all. Make sure the safe is absolutely flush with the wall, in the case of an uneven / unsquare floor or wall you may have to apply pressure while you ‘match-mark’ it up. Make your Drilling! Next is drilling out the holes. Make sure that the bolts you are using won’t protude through the neighbouring wall. A good rule of thumb is to keep your bolts to at least 2.5 inches but no more than 4-5 inches. If you have an olde-worlde stone / granite wall then you can possibly exceed this with bigger bolts... Don’t attempt to ‘gung-ho’ this bit, unless you are really a beast with a drill. I drilled two pilot holes in each hole before I switched to the proper drill-size. In SE Asia be wary of the cheap drill bits. I drilled out the holes but it took me a lot longer than I thought. The drill was just adequate but the drill bits themselves were glowing red after only seconds of drilling into breeze block! If this is the case you’re in for a long session, I filled up a cup with water and began ‘quenching’ the bit after each ‘buzz’. So you can make it a bit easier if this is the case. If you overdo it you could end up with a molten drill tip and have a devil of a time removing it from the hole! If you have tungsten / carbide drill bits you are laughing in comparison. If you choose to install the safe onto the floor via floor bolts, then you’ll need to be very careful about not cracking any tile’s present. In SE Asia these are a trend in newer houses. Pilot drilling each hole is strongly recommended in this case. Bolt Installation For European style solid house-bricks and concrete foors expanding masonry bolts are brilliant for using to anchor a safe of any description to. But for the breeze block construction that is common to South-East Asia they aren’t so good. The cavity-void in the middle will not suit the bolt and during the expansion it will weaken the block itself, crumbling the wall and weakening it. If this is the case then it’s best to use a screw-bolt with a hefty raw-plug: The Screw-type bolts aren’t perfect but it’s the best method for breeze block, short of having steel plate’s, and welding bolts to it on the other-side of the wall you can’t go far wrong with this method! Then it’s just a case of gently tapping the rawplugs into the holes (or simply inserting the expanding bolts), lining-up the safe then inserting the screwbolts into the holes. You’ll want an even hand on tapping the rawplugs in btw. I buckled one accidently and it was a pliers job to yank it out and put another one it... Ideally you want a small adjustable spanner. In my case all there was to hand in the shops was this bigger one. Meaning tightening them up at a straight-on angle, which takes a bit longer: You want to tighten these up in-sequence preferably in a diagonal order for best results. You want all the bolts to be flush as can be. One flat washer and one spring washer for between the safe-side-bolt and the wall are also a good idea: Drillout out the concrete floor / equiv. is also very suitable for enhancing your gun safe's resistence to levering tools... Once you’ve got all the bolts tightened and in place it’s time to fill-up the safe with goodies and valuables Make sure you use a decent passcode, NOT the factory supplied one or the 1234... Thanks for reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longball53098 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Will you have a guard dog watching this safe when you are not home? As I see it a good crowbar and 2 minutes of prying and they carry it away go home with all the goodies you neatly stored in one place. Sorry but for me it seems a waste of time and money unless you sit on the safe and hold that gun you show everyone you have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I agree, the 4 plastic plugs is a waste of time, might as well just leave it sitting on the floor and save the damage that would be done levering off the wall with a decent crow bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I'd opt for one that was sunk into the floor. Far more expensive to install BUT it can't be taken out of the floor in a matter of moments and then cracked later at a different location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsKnight Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Will you have a guard dog watching this safe when you are not home? As I see it a good crowbar and 2 minutes of prying and they carry it away go home with all the goodies you neatly stored in one place. No they can't, and your dog can be bribed, poisoned or killed just prior to the thieves ransacking your house. Firstly, thieves aren't pro's for the most part in Thailand. Secondly if they are opportunists there's not much they can do. Thirdly if they come back equipped, having first attempted and fled, I'll of moved the valuables elsewhere. Fourthly, the safe is concealed, the gun is concealed and nobody knows where the dickens the safe house is anyway. So tonight, down the bar, I'll be having a drink thinking of your bs knowing that my gun and valuables are safe in my safe without carrying a bunch of heavy stuff around with me every time I want to leave the house :jap: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsKnight Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 I agree, the 4 plastic plugs is a waste of time, might as well just leave it sitting on the floor and save the damage that would be done levering off the wall with a decent crow bar. 4 plastic plugs are (let me say this slowly for you) E x p a n d i n g r a w p l u g s. With screw bolts inside they E X P A N D are strong enough to resist attack from an opportunist thai or farang. With a HEAVY pry bar, which in conjunction with a sledgehammer you'd have to destroy the wall itself. Now you've just made noise noise and more noise. What breezes about on an internet forum and what really cuts it in real life are two different things. But when it comes to the crunch it doesn't go down like that, so the internet keyboard know-it-alls keep dreaming their illusions and the other people keep things solid and realistic rather than bleating about it, we do it and show it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsKnight Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 I'd opt for one that was sunk into the floor. Far more expensive to install BUT it can't be taken out of the floor in a matter of moments and then cracked later at a different location. I'd opt for a moated castle with an armed prowler guard unit but I'm not going to get it. The sunken-in-floor-safe is a white elephant. Great for security, however risk of ground water seeping in during rainy season and the fact the owner would be none too pleased when I come to leave finding a bloody great square hole in the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Well if you are happy with "PLASTIC" plugs then that's probably ok by most of us " internet keyboard know-it-alls" as it's not our stuff we are trying to protect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsKnight Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 I agree, the 4 plastic plugs is a waste of time, might as well just leave it sitting on the floor and save the damage that would be done levering off the wall with a decent crow bar. Are you for real? You might as well leave your door wide open and offer the thieves a glass of whisky as they leave! Grow a set of balls and try not act so spineless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonman Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Bwahahahahahahahaha @ Rawl plugs !!! Use the crow used to enter the house and pop it off the wall, If you seriously think your valuables are safe you need you head read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I'd opt for one that was sunk into the floor. Far more expensive to install BUT it can't be taken out of the floor in a matter of moments and then cracked later at a different location. I'd opt for a moated castle with an armed prowler guard unit but I'm not going to get it. The sunken-in-floor-safe is a white elephant. Great for security, however risk of ground water seeping in during rainy season and the fact the owner would be none too pleased when I come to leave finding a bloody great square hole in the ground. The safes that are placed in cement in the ground are watertight and firesafe (I would hope the one you glue to your wall is as well!) I didn't know you were renting since "your house" to me indicated ownership, but I am sure if you asked the owner he would approve it conditional to you leaving said safe where you put it and giving him access when you leave. The wall mount would be "gone in 60 seconds" and whoever took it would have plenty of time to crack it wherever he bothered to take it. BTW --- the suggestion of leaving it on the floor isn't a bad one for the wall mount .. just pile your dirty underwear on it (in other words --- no need for the attack on the person that suggested that the wall mount was a poor idea) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Place your valuables in a "book safe" and place the book amongst your other books in your bookcase. Guaranteed not to be stolen in Thailand: http://www.topspysecrets.com/book-safe.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Rawl bolts, at least 8mm. Plugs are useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) Place your valuables in a "book safe" and place the book amongst your other books in your bookcase. Guaranteed not to be stolen in Thailand: http://www.topspysec.../book-safe.html LOL ... as long as the book cover doesn't show a cartoon! edit .... ouch! I didn't type that, did I? Edited February 28, 2011 by jdinasia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrel Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 If you want to do a good job in breeze blocks then you need to use epoxy bolts like this. They are stronger than the wall itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damman1 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Why do you have a gun ? That is a serious question by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsKnight Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) Why do you have a gun ? That is a serious question by the way. This ain't Kansas Dorothy. Seconds count, and in Thailand the police are hours away, especially at nightfall away from provincial cities and towns. Also why shouldn't I own a gun? That's a serious question by the way JD, I wasn't attacking the guy either. Edited February 28, 2011 by JimsKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsKnight Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 If you want to do a good job in breeze blocks then you need to use epoxy bolts like this. They are stronger than the wall itself. Great stuff, but they don't sell it anywhere I've seen in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonman Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Why do you have a gun ? That is a serious question by the way. This ain't Kansas Dorothy. Seconds count, and in Thailand the police are hours away, especially at nightfall away from provincial cities and towns. They are airpistols, must really put the fear of god in to your intruders, make sure to keep a distance so they don't flog with the pry bar they are using to pop out them cute little rawl plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonman Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 If you want to do a good job in breeze blocks then you need to use epoxy bolts like this. They are stronger than the wall itself. Great stuff, but they don't sell it anywhere I've seen in Thailand. That actual brand may not be available but epoxy bolts defo available, even homepro sell them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAS21 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Security is a problem. We have a small safe which I attached to the wall ‘fortunately’ using expanding bolts. It wouldn’t open on the buttons and I didn’t have the key to open it mechanically. Even though it was located as shown I managed to extract it without doing too much damage. I then took it downstairs and opened with an angle grinder. Then I realized that if I had drilled a small hole, in the correct place, I could have opened it with a piece of welding rod. The top has now been stitch welded back and the safe replaced. We only use it for keeping odd bits of money, bank books, the occasion ring etc. Madam doesn’t have much gold..she has a house instead! We have a more secure safe elsewhere. As we live in a guarded complex, have a maid and also a burglar alarm which will phone us, we don’t have too many worries. So if you want to secure your valuables may I suggest getting a decent safe and good burglar alarm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I agree, the 4 plastic plugs is a waste of time, might as well just leave it sitting on the floor and save the damage that would be done levering off the wall with a decent crow bar. Are you for real? You might as well leave your door wide open and offer the thieves a glass of whisky as they leave! Grow a set of balls and try not act so spineless! I was wondering what plastic wall plugs had to do with balls, but then if I have a gun locked away in a safe I wouldn't need balls and could act spineless as well.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katabeachbum Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Rawl bolts, at least 8mm. Plugs are useless. I have approx 20 of these safes installed, heck even one in my garage for car and bike keys. 890 baht at Carrefour, they all came with rawl bolts, and in addition Sikaflex glue to wall or floor. Problem is one doesnt work any more, and impossible to remove without ruining the wardrobe its build into Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsKnight Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) I agree, the 4 plastic plugs is a waste of time, might as well just leave it sitting on the floor and save the damage that would be done levering off the wall with a decent crow bar. Are you for real? You might as well leave your door wide open and offer the thieves a glass of whisky as they leave! Grow a set of balls and try not act so spineless! I was wondering what plastic wall plugs had to do with balls, but then if I have a gun locked away in a safe I wouldn't need balls and could act spineless as well.. It wasn't the plastic or gun I was making any connection with, it was the defeatist and 'might as well do nothing' emphasise you put into your post that got you the 'man-up' response. The Gun has nothing to do with I'm not carrying the thing about like john wayne and if I have it left out I don't want it getting stolen and misused. That's common sense so enough of the liberal whining please. Edited March 1, 2011 by JimsKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damman1 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Why do you have a gun ? That is a serious question by the way. This ain't Kansas Dorothy. Seconds count, and in Thailand the police are hours away, especially at nightfall away from provincial cities and towns. Also why shouldn't I own a gun? That's a serious question by the way JD, I wasn't attacking the guy either. Thanks for the reply Mr Scarecrow, I did not realise it was only a BB air pistol or that you lived in the boonies - I thought it was the real deal, and you are quite correct, why shouldn't you own a gun - please accept my apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsKnight Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 Why do you have a gun ? That is a serious question by the way. This ain't Kansas Dorothy. Seconds count, and in Thailand the police are hours away, especially at nightfall away from provincial cities and towns. Also why shouldn't I own a gun? That's a serious question by the way JD, I wasn't attacking the guy either. Thanks for the reply Mr Scarecrow, I did not realise it was only a BB air pistol or that you lived in the boonies - I thought it was the real deal, and you are quite correct, why shouldn't you own a gun - please accept my apologies. LOL! Just to let you know I've just had my permit to own a gun given the ok, so a real gun (legally held) will be going in there soon also ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardog Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 (edited) Seriously Jim what you need to do is install a safe in the cement hidden. My safe in Hawaii was 110 pounds & was metal plated to girders & then steel with cement over the rafters. The safe was then welded onto the metal plate.The floor had a hidden panel to get to the safe.In addition to that I had a safe in my closet with $87 a fake Rolex watch & some defunct stocks from Roan copper mines(Now defunct) Worth zip but traceable. The Thai safes are pretty bogus & any angle grinder & 4 or 5 other ways mentioned to get in.Also get a 1000 baht phone so if they use the cell the GPS feature will let the heat trace the whereabouts if they are dumb enough to use the phone & most of the Komoies are bumbling idiots.That is how Sattahib caught 4 of 5 of the idiots that robbed us.( before I thought about securing the property & the most important portion US!.)Not to handy for a piece to be in a safe when you need it. I had my Mossberg shotgun proudly displayed & my Smith & Wesson handgun hidden in a custom flip down panel I built near the air conditioner. I still prefer my blades over the guns, But the guns are the right thing for a gunfight! I also paid the local heat & my safe doors & flip down panel were all wired to the cop shop. I realize here you may not have the options as home But seriously I would only use that safe as a decoy so your piece doesn't grow wings if they steal the safe or get into it. My girl can easily pick up & carry 20 kilos -Our dogs weigh more. You sound like you are capable of crafting a hidden panel somewhere assessable for the gun.A gun in the safe is too late by the time you get it out.Neither of our dogs will eat from strangers when we are not right there. If you tossed a nice steak they would just keep barking.They jump over the barb wire fence & they get a load full of teeth from the Black Lab. The Retriever not to great at biting unless your close to him. The Lab stays away from the fence but will rush after a breach. I can't get them to do tricks but all they need to be good at is keeping the un-wanteds out. Really a good option if you can have a dog at your place. You would have to train the dog from a puppy to get it to not eat a pitched hunk of food. I was foolish once & built this house as close to a fortress & have great protection 1 minute away that is a cop that really loves to unload his gun on any perps. Well worth it!!!!! Good luck on the safe. Edited March 8, 2011 by Beardog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axelg Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 lol @ BB gun in the safe... and then lol at the safe... yeah 3300 THB... thats gonna secure your valuables! Besides most likely if you get robbed... it is by the local BiB. (or their friends). My advice... rent a safe at the bank... or buy properties instead of gold and BB guns. Also if you want to fix something and dont want it to disappear get the chemical tabs (epoxy) not the plastic ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DumFarang Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 16 kg. isn't a very heavy safe. I have one that weighs much, much more and with the smooth metal on the outside and the awkwardness of holding it, it is really difficult to pick up and walk with; and I'm no weakling nor am I old. You want that to be part of your defense if it gets to the stage where somebody can pick it up. They will quickly realize that they are not going very far and will look 100% suspicious, and knowing this country they wouldn't have thought that far ahead. Thieves don't tend to back vehicles up to houses to they can load something heavy and get away. I've had a few friends who were robbed and there were commonalities shared in each, and, incidentally, the biggest one accounts for me never having been robbed--staying out of sight. I live on a road that usually has people around and things going on. Here are some other things to be aware of if you're not already: 1 Naturally someone will case the joint, but you could easily not see this. 2 They will likely be prepared to open a door or window easily, but apart from that they will want to have parked nearby, walk in not looking too suspicious, and walk away the same way. So dropping a laptop, netbook, or iphone into a bag, or of course stealing money, works great. 3 The cleverest I heard of happened a few years ago when some thieves got a hold of some kind of sleeping gas. Dark areas, in the middle of the night they would find a way to get a little tube into the house and knock everybody unconscious. Then they just broke in and walked around confidently doing whatever they wanted, very scary. 4 There are stories of armed burglaries in Thailand, but I reckon one of these happens per 100 or more. Normally the thief slips in and out while the house is empty, or something to this effect. 5 Lastly, thieves are lazy, but they are opportunists. A lot of times construction provides a great opportunity for them. A friend of mine who lives in a small gated community got robbed while part of the wall was down due to construction (a new house caused the wall to have to be extended to get around it). While there was a nice big hole there a thief or thieves just couldn't resist. If the wall were in place the last thing they wanted to be doing was climbing it (all that extra effort) and something like my friend's laptop could've been broken in the process. They did it in broad daylight just past midday while the community was totally empty (obviously with help to know that for sure). Hope I've been helpful somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quisie Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Also why shouldn't I own a gun? That's a serious question by the way Maybe you'd like to check out this thread which will answer why you shouldn't own a gun http://www.thaivisa....ws-in-thailand/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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