Will Advice

[beachyman]

Anybody know how the will procedure works if your wife is not thai? Ie. if I die does dying intestate automatically mean my real estate and other assets revert to my farang wife?

I have a will and prenup registered in my home country and anti ciliary documents tied to the will in other countries where I have bank or real estate assets but not in Thailand.

Any assistance would be appreciated.

[tomallison]

Realising that this is the Pattaya Forum, but I was interested in Langsuan Man's reply, with details, of registering his will with Banglamung Amphur office. I reside in North Thailand and decided that I would try this procedure with a simple will leaving all to my Thai partner. After getting all the paperwork together and presenting it to my local Amphur office, I can report nil success. A senior lady looked at the paperwork, my partner explained the requirements (only Thai spooken here) the lady understood what was required then she passed it on to the head man who was less interested. After a long spiel from him about this and that not being right etc (seems like he did not want to get involved with a Farangs will) the last words were: take it to a Lawyer.

Have others had success with this procedure at Amphur offices other than Banglamung? Just out of interest. We will visit a Lawyer later this week.

[phomsanuk]

If you don't want the Thai government to get your assets then don't let a Thai lawyer get them either

Get an English simple will translated from one of the translating companies you see here at Thai Visa

Go to the Amphur in Bamlamung and have them process and register it for you

You will need 1. copy of your Passport (Face page and Visa) 2. A medical certificate available for 100-150 THB from any clinic 3. Original and copy of the Thai and English Will 4. You will need two Thai witnesses (the girls at the Amphur will be most happy to be your witnesses (don't forget to tip) 5. Take your girl so she can show them her Thai ID card 6. 20 THB baht to pay for it all

They will witness everything, place the information in their registry book, and will seal the envelope containing the Will in an envelope, place it into storage, and will give you a receipt

Using a lawyer is fraught with danger since they will not register the Will until you are dead and then how do you know that what you wrote is what was registered

This way you maintain control through the whole process. The only caveat is that in case of any dispute the Thai version of the Will will take precedence

BTW. I did the above process less than a year ago and the requirements I cited are directly from the Banglamung Amphur

Who do you trust the most, a lawyer or yourself ? This is one time where the DYI route is the best and safest way to go

Had mine done recently and reasonably. 089 890 4023

[cdnvic]

Please don't post people's email addresses (removed).

[Dillpickles98]

Having just completed ours, I'll add my $0.02, We went to Siam Legal, registered with the U.S. Dept of State with offices in Los Angeles, New York & Chicago. Mine was a bit of work because my wife will get survivor benefits as long as she lives from the city of Los Angeles, which will not make deposits in foreign bank, there will also be soc. sec. survivor benefits, we have bank acts. & mutual funds which may have to be liquidated, & transferred to her.

Even after death she would still be responsible for filing tax returns. So we are tied to the city, & IRS for life. Stipulations had to be made for that aswell as to send her hard copy retirement checks. Our will had to include all the above agencies, & act.#s', in English & Thai. All she needs do is alert them & provide proof of my passing. to any Siam Legal office. Of course she is listed as beneficiary by the agencies involved they just need to know how & where to disperse it. We both have seperate bank act.s here, she already has access to, as well as access to both in the U.S. If she had the slightest interest in learning how to handle it by computer we wouldn't even need a will.

Presently we own no property other than furnishings which will change in 3 yrs when we buy a house, survivor benefits will insure she will able to keep it. Our assets in the U.S. are just funds. But there is some difficulty in getting it, my retirement can only be direct deposited in a U.S. bank, to keep a U.S. bank I must have a residence local to the bank, or be mailed hard copy check. Which is what must happen after me. We live here, with no living relatives in L.A.

We are married 12 yrs. U.S. marriage license, with Thai marriage registration at her home Amphor. As of last yr. it is a requirement of a Married 'O' visa. Which for me is the only road to permanent residence, though could easily make retirement visa requirements, but have no plans for a business investment, I just want to see the day of no more 90 day report dates or any further dealings with Imm.

We were given one original, with the other on file & scanned into their system. As copies are invalid. For this I paid 20,000 THB. Checking with the Buearu of Comsumer Affairs in the state of California, before using them I did find complaints, but none regarding wills.

As anyone might guess if your only dealing with whats here, probably a lot simpler than dealing with Int'l law, which is why I paid more than others using a law firm.

DP.

[Asiantravel]

I am wondering if anyone has any knowledge or experience regarding being a beneficiary to a will

in the UK?

in May of this year I was advised I am a beneficiary and after receiving a copy of the will it was quite specific as to what would happen to the assets if I had died before the person who left the will.they would half passed to somebody else.

But now that I have outlived that person and now all that needs to be done is for properties

to be sold and the proceeds distributed I would just be interested to know what would happen

legally to the assets I have inherited should I happened to die before this matter has been finalised

and the money has been distributed?

in the event of my death is there any way I could insure those assets could be passed on to somebody else?

Thanks very much in advance for any comments or advice

[topt]

I am wondering if anyone has any knowledge or experience regarding being a beneficiary to a will

in the UK?

in May of this year I was advised I am a beneficiary and after receiving a copy of the will it was quite specific as to what would happen to the assets if I had died before the person who left the will.they would half passed to somebody else.

But now that I have outlived that person and now all that needs to be done is for properties

to be sold and the proceeds distributed I would just be interested to know what would happen

legally to the assets I have inherited should I happened to die before this matter has been finalised

and the money has been distributed?

in the event of my death is there any way I could insure those assets could be passed on to somebody else?

Thanks very much in advance for any comments or advice

This may be a simplistic answer but from what you have said they should fall under your will as the assets would go to your estate as you were alive when the other person died?

If they are specific disbursements and not covered yet you need to add a codicil or change the will I would presume.

If you don't have a will.........

edited for typo

[Asiantravel]

I am wondering if anyone has any knowledge or experience regarding being a beneficiary to a will

in the UK?

in May of this year I was advised I am a beneficiary and after receiving a copy of the will it was quite specific as to what would happen to the assets if I had died before the person who left the will.they would half passed to somebody else.

But now that I have outlived that person and now all that needs to be done is for properties

to be sold and the proceeds distributed I would just be interested to know what would happen

legally to the assets I have inherited should I happened to die before this matter has been finalised

and the money has been distributed?

in the event of my death is there any way I could insure those assets could be passed on to somebody else?

Thanks very much in advance for any comments or advice

This may be a simplistic answer but from what you have said they should fall under your will as the assets would go to your estate as you were alive when the other person died?

If they are specific disbursements and not covered yet you need to add a codicil or change the will I would presume.

If you don't have a will.........

edited for typo

thanks very much for your reply topt

yes I have now established that I just need these assets to be covered in a will.

Since I originally posted this question I have learnt from a lawyer in the UK that it's dangerous to have two Wills in 2 different jurisdictions. so I would just like to clarify if the proceeds of these assets should be attached to my will in Thailand ? also can I rest assured my Thai will would be legally enforceable in the United Kingdom covering assets that are in Britain

and left under a British will ? Or does the will covering these assets in particular need to be prepared

and witnessed in the United Kingdom?

I wrote to the solicitor in England who originally advised me of my inheritance and who is acting for the two executors to ask this question.

I did this because naturally he would be the person that would naturally be presented with my Thai will if anything happened to me. But he hasn't replied perhaps because he feels is a conflict of interest?

thanks very much for any advice

[topt]

I am wondering if anyone has any knowledge or experience regarding being a beneficiary to a will

in the UK?

in May of this year I was advised I am a beneficiary and after receiving a copy of the will it was quite specific as to what would happen to the assets if I had died before the person who left the will.they would half passed to somebody else.

But now that I have outlived that person and now all that needs to be done is for properties

to be sold and the proceeds distributed I would just be interested to know what would happen

legally to the assets I have inherited should I happened to die before this matter has been finalised

and the money has been distributed?

in the event of my death is there any way I could insure those assets could be passed on to somebody else?

Thanks very much in advance for any comments or advice

This may be a simplistic answer but from what you have said they should fall under your will as the assets would go to your estate as you were alive when the other person died?

If they are specific disbursements and not covered yet you need to add a codicil or change the will I would presume.

If you don't have a will.........

edited for typo

thanks very much for your reply topt

yes I have now established that I just need these assets to be covered in a will.

Since I originally posted this question I have learnt from a lawyer in the UK that it's dangerous to have two Wills in 2 different jurisdictions. so I would just like to clarify if the proceeds of these assets should be attached to my will in Thailand ? also can I rest assured my Thai will would be legally enforceable in the United Kingdom covering assets that are in Britain

and left under a British will ? Or does the will covering these assets in particular need to be prepared

and witnessed in the United Kingdom?

I wrote to the solicitor in England who originally advised me of my inheritance and who is acting for the two executors to ask this question.

I did this because naturally he would be the person that would naturally be presented with my Thai will if anything happened to me. But he hasn't replied perhaps because he feels is a conflict of interest?

thanks very much for any advice

Not sure I understand why "naturally he would be the person that would naturally be presented with my Thai will"?

Unless you are talking about property then one properly written, witnessed and registered will should be able to cover everything and would leave no room for confusion. If property in more than one country what I have read suggests you may need separate wills as inheritance laws vary more from country to country - I came across this for example - http://www.howto.co.uk/family/making-a-will/the_international_element_of_wills/

I think the bottom part of the article makes a lot of sense.

[Asiantravel]

This may be a simplistic answer but from what you have said they should fall under your will as the assets would go to your estate as you were alive when the other person died?

If they are specific disbursements and not covered yet you need to add a codicil or change the will I would presume.

If you don't have a will.........

edited for typo

thanks very much for your reply topt

yes I have now established that I just need these assets to be covered in a will.

Since I originally posted this question I have learnt from a lawyer in the UK that it's dangerous to have two Wills in 2 different jurisdictions. so I would just like to clarify if the proceeds of these assets should be attached to my will in Thailand ? also can I rest assured my Thai will would be legally enforceable in the United Kingdom covering assets that are in Britain

and left under a British will ? Or does the will covering these assets in particular need to be prepared

and witnessed in the United Kingdom?

I wrote to the solicitor in England who originally advised me of my inheritance and who is acting for the two executors to ask this question.

I did this because naturally he would be the person that would naturally be presented with my Thai will if anything happened to me. But he hasn't replied perhaps because he feels is a conflict of interest?

thanks very much for any advice

Not sure I understand why "naturally he would be the person that would naturally be presented with my Thai will"?

Unless you are talking about property then one properly written, witnessed and registered will should be able to cover everything and would leave no room for confusion. If property in more than one country what I have read suggests you may need separate wills as inheritance laws vary more from country to country - I came across this for example - http://www.howto.co....ement_of_wills/

I think the bottom part of the article makes a lot of sense.

Not sure I understand why "naturally he would be the person that would naturally be presented with my Thai will"?

what I mean by this is I am only concerned about the timeframe between now and when the will is finalised and the proceeds are distributed. I understand sometimes it takes a year or more?

after I receive my share of the proceeds the solicitor acting for the executors of the Will to which I am a beneficiary will be out of the picture entirely because he would have completed his job. But if I died before the proceeds are distributed by him ,he would be the person who would have to redirect these assets to the beneficiary I name in my will whether under a Thai or British will. Is that a bit clearer?

again I am learning that you are probably right and that I need a British will. I have an old school friend who is a solicitor in North Wales

and I have just sent an e-mail regarding this matter so hopefully he will be able to provide some assistance.

[Asiantravel]

I think the bottom part of the article makes a lot of sense.

thanks a lot for that link

yes indeed I can see what you mean ! ha ha you have to be very careful about specifying what you want to revoke

and not revoke

[Asiantravel]

So I have just signed my will in the presence of two witnesses in Thailand and sent it to my solicitor in North Wales. What I've learnt from this exercise is that if you need to prepare a will regarding assets in the United Kingdom it needs to be done through a UK solicitor if it involves real estate.

If it is only cash in the bank at Thai-based will is enough.

So I just have one more question regarding how the will would work in practice. Say for example I go over to Cambodia on a visit and get run over and killed how would my solicitor in North Wales become aware of this so that he in turn would advise the beneficiary that I have nominated in my will ?

[Eneukman]

I spent 25 years in Edinburgh dealing with the administration of estates. If you have UK assets, the authorities in the UK (Commissary Office in Scotland or the Probate Registry in England & Wales will require sight of originals of BOTH Wills. A court certified copy can be accepted in place of a foreign Will should the original not be available though an explanation for this will also be required.

It is not essential to have two Wills but having one for your Thai assets and a separate one for your assets elsewhere does make administration of your Thai estate much easier. If you do have more than one Will, it is ESSENTIAL that nothing in the later Will supersedes anything in the earlier Will so therefore make it absolutely clear when changing either Will exactly what assets it covers - i.e. ONLY assets in Thailand or EXCLUDING assets in Thailand.

A further complication is that in the UK at least your UK Will must be valid in the country in which you are domiciled. Domicile is a highly complex subject and the simplest way to ensure that this is the case is to sign a Thai Will in Thailand and a Will dealing with assets in your home country in your home country.

Alan

[chiang mai]

This thread may shed some light on a few aspects of the Will system, costs and process:

[antpet]

The simplest way is to put the m/c in her name. It's her bike. No problem there.

The accounts can be accessed by a pin code / card if you share that with her.

Total cost free.

The 'my girlfriend' bit is the clue to this.

Leaving money to 'girl friends' isn't the best idea.

Why not marry her?

[chiang mai]

So I have just signed my will in the presence of two witnesses in Thailand and sent it to my solicitor in North Wales. What I've learnt from this exercise is that if you need to prepare a will regarding assets in the United Kingdom it needs to be done through a UK solicitor if it involves real estate.

If it is only cash in the bank at Thai-based will is enough.

So I just have one more question regarding how the will would work in practice. Say for example I go over to Cambodia on a visit and get run over and killed how would my solicitor in North Wales become aware of this so that he in turn would advise the beneficiary that I have nominated in my will ?

Via the UK Embassies in Cambodia and Thailand and the Foriegn Office.

[harryfrompattaya]

Leave the money to me I will pay for the Lawyer

[allexx]

I’ve done a will but dunno if it is registered. Can I just go to the Amphur in Banglamung and check if it is?

[prakhonchai nick]

HELP NEEDED

I am in need of obtaining a copy of the grant of probate recently issued by a Thai court.

I believe the deceased's widow fraudulently applied for the grant despite there being a will in which I amongst others (not the widow) was named as executor.

Can anyone advise how to go about obtaining a copy from the court?

Thanks in advance

[auserb]

all I can sat it is a greatest will ansurely I will folow up and do the same. thanks budy

regards

Auserb

Yes I did and also included an alternate


Since there have been so many questions regarding this, here is mine with individual names redacted I have bolded the areas of special importance here in Thailand (IMHO)

I, xxxxxxxxxxx , residing at (address) Kingdom of Thailand, an unmarried male, declare this to be my Last Will and Testament, and I revoke any and all wills and codicils I previously made in the Kingdom.

ARTICLE I: Funeral expenses & payment of debt

I direct my executors to pay my enforceable unsecured debts and funeral expenses, to include but not limited to the cremation of my remains, the expenses of my last illness, and the expenses of administering my estate.

ARTICLE II: Money & Personal Property

I give all my tangible personal property, bank accounts, cash, automobiles, and all policies and proceeds of insurance covering such property that is located in the Kingdom of Thailand, to my partner, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Thai ID number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. If she does not survive me, I give that property to her minor (under 18) children who survive me, in equal shares, to be divided among them by my executors in their absolute discretion. My executors may pay out of my estate the expenses of delivering tangible personal property to beneficiaries.

ARTICLE III: Real Estate

I give all my residences, that are in my name or in the company name of xxxxxxxxx, subject to any mortgages or encumbrances thereon, and all policies and proceeds of insurance covering such property, to my partner, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx . If she does not survive me, I give that property to her minor children.

ARTICLE IV: Residuary Clause

I give the rest of my estate (called my residuary estate) to my partner, xxxxxxxxxxxxx, If she does not survive me, I give my residuary estate to her minor children who survive me, in equal shares, to be divided among them.

ARTICLE V: Fiduciaries

I appoint my partner, xxxxxxxxxxxxx, as Executor of this will. If she is unable or unwilling to act, or resigns, I appoint her son-in- law, xxxxxxxxx, as her successor. If this successor also predeceases me or is unable or unwilling to act, his survivor shall serve as executor. My executor shall have all the powers allowable to executors under the laws of this country. I direct that no bond or security of any kind shall be required of any executor.

ARTICLE VI: Simultaneous Death Clause

If my partner, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, and I shall die under such circumstances that the order of our deaths cannot be readily ascertained, my partner shall be deemed to have predeceased me. No person, other than my partner, shall be deemed to have survived me if such person dies within 30 days after my death. This article modifies all provisions of this will accordingly.



I have signed this will this ____ day of ____, 20___ .

___________________
(legal signature)



SIGNED AND DECLARED by xxxxxxxxxxxxx on________________to be his will, in our presence, who at his request, in his presence and in the presence of each other, all being present at the same time, have signed our names as witnesses.



___________________
(signature and Thai ID number)

___________________
(signature and Thai ID number)

[auserb]

Totonjoy, agreed - your will should be in your native language (although not necessarily "English" for all "Western expats") unless you can read and write fluent Thai, as I explained above at some length. It does not, however, have to be made by a lawyer (Western or Thai) and if it is made by a "Western lawyer" you should ensure that he is versed in Thai law - there are considerable differences, such as the trust laws which I touched on briefly, and a "Western lawyer" may not be aware of these.

I should also point out that unless your solicitor is also the executor/administrator of your will (something I would avoid personally, unless you have no option as well as no friends) he will not "make sure ..... that it is executed correctly". If you have only paid him to draw up your will that is where his responsibilities begin and end; anything done with it after your demise is up to your administrator.

NALAK, I don't know which solicitor you finally used, but you did name a lawyer on 14 March; you are definitely not using me - most of my legal work is pro-bono, but when I charge my minimum fee to simply look at a case is 7 figures (baht).

Hi Mr. Pie, could you please tellme your address an phone numberand I would like to come and visit you to do the last will.. here is my email

I will be comeing to Pataya in october 2014

thanks

[DisparateDan]

Totonjoy, agreed - your will should be in your native language (although not necessarily "English" for all "Western expats") unless you can read and write fluent Thai, as I explained above at some length. It does not, however, have to be made by a lawyer (Western or Thai) and if it is made by a "Western lawyer" you should ensure that he is versed in Thai law - there are considerable differences, such as the trust laws which I touched on briefly, and a "Western lawyer" may not be aware of these.

I should also point out that unless your solicitor is also the executor/administrator of your will (something I would avoid personally, unless you have no option as well as no friends) he will not "make sure ..... that it is executed correctly". If you have only paid him to draw up your will that is where his responsibilities begin and end; anything done with it after your demise is up to your administrator.

NALAK, I don't know which solicitor you finally used, but you did name a lawyer on 14 March; you are definitely not using me - most of my legal work is pro-bono, but when I charge my minimum fee to simply look at a case is 7 figures (baht).

Hi Mr. Pie, could you please tellme your address an phone numberand I would like to come and visit you to do the last will.. here is my email

I will be comeing to Pataya in october 2014

thanks

This guy contacted me, and I responded, I guess my needs were outside his scope, OK but not even the simple courtesy of a reply.

[jacko45k]

HELP NEEDED

I am in need of obtaining a copy of the grant of probate recently issued by a Thai court.

I believe the deceased's widow fraudulently applied for the grant despite there being a will in which I amongst others (not the widow) was named as executor.

Can anyone advise how to go about obtaining a copy from the court?

Thanks in advance

Ask the lawyer perhaps.

If you know who prepared the probate paperwork go there, otherwise ask the lawyer on here.

[DisparateDan]

It appears that the concept of getting answers on the "Ask a Lawyer", not detailed but just simpleprocedural has ground to an unfortunate halt.

[maphraw]

I have two Thai joint bank accounts and a joint mutual fund with my Thai wife. I was under the impression that, in the event of my death, all of the assets in these accounts would automatically belong to her. That is one of the reasons for having the joint accounts.

As it stands now she can take as much money out of the accounts as she wants to without my permission as I can without her permission. So I just assumed that my death would in no way necessitate a will. I am going to ask the bank manager and someone from the mutual fund company if this is not the case. Also, I just assumed that if my wife dies, I would assume ownership of the Thai bank accounts and mutual fund. Would anyone happen to know if I am totally misguided.

[BlackJack]

no Will ??

so Section 1629 and Section 1635 kicks in

this is regarding statutory heirs of which your wife is one

if no heirs then no problems - she gets all

if you want to be sure then state in your Will that your wife gets all

if you have no property or any other assets then no Will OK

what about your funeral costs and any repatriation is that covered?

Giving someone complete access to your accounts is somewhat risky

[maphraw]

Only my wife and me, no kids, The car is in my name but it's old. My assets in the states are made out to her with instructions on what she has to do for the investment company to forward them into her bankk account in Thailand. Of course she has complete access to our accounts. She is my wife. It's our money.

[BlackJack]

So you were not married before and have no other living relatives and you do not own any house or condo in

thailand

[BlackJack]

Spend 5000 bht and get it done properly

then you wont have to worry enough bout it to post online

[soioldkentroad]

I am a farang and would like to make a will here,. I have a condo in my name but would like to leave it to my daughter in the UK. How much would that cost and is it safe to do that ?