Do You Think The Russification Of Pattaya Is A Good Thing Or Not?

[Jingthing]

Russia isn't a real democracy so what does voting once or a hundred times have to with the price of beets? Let me know when you see Spaniards and Germans mostly talking to each other in Russian or Swahila or whatever, any language other than English ...

Next ...

[RabC]

You get the final word, mate. I think readers can make their own decisions on whether English or Russian is the REAL international language in the world today.

again imperialistic view - does the world need 1 international language? or may be current situation, while 7-10 languages are more or less popular is fine for most people?

Again Cold War head stuck in the sand view that does not realise ENGLISH is THE language of international business.

[denismsk]

Russia isn't a real democracy so what does voting once or a hundred times have to with the price of beets? Let me know when you see Spaniards and Germans mostly talking to each other in Russian or Swahila or whatever, any language other than English ...

Next ...

when westerner have to say nothing - he speak about the democracy in Russia?

as i said - take it easy - there's nothing more to discuss.

[Jingthing]

You're right. The sad state of democracy in Russia is a discussion for another day, another place. On the other hand, it couldn't hurt to understand something about the culture and politics of where our new neighbors are coming from, eh?

Edited March 8, 2011 by Jingthing

[neil324]

proof of the fact please? for you - may be. for millions of people - may be not. in Pattaya de-facto Russian is a second international language both of commerce and tourism for example.

When a Russian or any other nationality on this planet goes for a jolly down Soi 6, negotiations are not carried out in Russian, they are in English.

Also the plane that carried your ass to Thailand, which ever air space it flew through, all air traffic control talk is done in English.

Edited March 9, 2011 by neil324

[yermanee]

Some very interesting reactions to this poll.

I belong to a linguistic minority (at least here in Thailand) and having had to endure the Anglification of Pattaya for many a year, I see no harm in the Russification that is happening right now. What amazes me however is the fact that so many native English speakers are still in the " Rule Brittania " mindset, and find it a god given right that the whole world should speak English.

Languages divide peoples into groups and within these groups it is perfectly normal that one prefers his/her language.

End of rant

Yermanee

[Awohalitsiktoli]

The Russification of Pattaya is, no doubt, a good thing for real estate developers who are desperate for suckers (sorry, I meant to say buyers).

Americans, Brits, Germans, Scandinavians, Chinese, Indians, Russians--who will be next in line? Iranians?

Personally, since I hate Russian food, I would prefer more Chinese and Indians.

One thing I like about Pattaya is the mix of cultures.

[dananderson]

English is the 2nd language in all of Thailand. Every road sign as well as in all the airports are either in Thai or English as well as the menus in most large hotels. I have no problem with Russians comming here as they drink and ebjoy themselves in a good natured way, Studying Thai culture and learning a few words of Thai would not hurt either-but that applies to all.

[Michaelaway]

In Pattaya, I've met only about 20 Russians, most were tourists who came here on holiday. Nearly all were very nice, polite, inquisitive and solicitous; about 60% could speak English, at least a little (and I mean nothing by that; I can only say 2 or 3 things in Russian!). And, yes, I also met a few boorish guys, too. These were Russian people who made the effort to mingle with and try to understand the other people (nationalities) they came across here.

We should remember that Russian people haven't been traveling internationally as long as most other nationalities; they're still new at it.

Then, there are the many Russians who you see all the time, buying supplies at all the 7-11's/Family Marts. You see them every day & night- walking & drinking, or going to the beach & drinking or buying beer and booze to go home for drinking. Rather than go into detail, I will only say that trying to get in and out of a mini-mart with a group(s) of Russian people present is a bizarre and excruciatingly long, drawn-out process! Other than their mates, nobody seems to give 1/2 a darn about anybody else who's there, trying to pay and get going!

On Star Trek, weren't the rough, proud & unintelligible Klingons supposed to represent the Russians? No point to make; just askin'...

Maybe, through more interaction and discussion, we all will eventually be able to better understand what it takes to have a good life, living happily together... here in Paradise.

[Ulysses G.]

When a Russian or any other nationality on this planet goes for a jolly down Soi 6, negotiations are not carried out in Russian, they are in English.

Also the plane that carried your ass to Thailand, which ever air space it flew through, all air traffic control talk is done in English.

Hear, hear!!

[eyebee]

Here, from Wikipedia is a list of the most widely spoken languages in the world by native speakers (spoken as a first, second or foreign language, however, pushes English way into first place with up to 1.8 billion speakers).

Mandarin 845 million

Spanish 329 million

English 328 million

Hindi-Urdu 240 million

Arabic 206 million

Bengali 181 million

Portuguese 178 million

Russian 144 million

Japanese 122 million

Punjabi 109 million

Just for information...

Edited March 9, 2011 by eyebee

[denismsk]

seems English-lovers aren't able to read in English properly - may be it's the time to switch on your brains for a bit, and write your bla-bla-bla after that? please read what i've written carefully - MORE or LESS popular language. that's it. English is popular in most of the parts of the life (I AGREE!), Italian used in Music, etc. Russian is used by 285 Mln of people, and widely used in the touristic places, like German and French as well. and that's why i don't see any reason to cry about Russification. that's it.

next mr 'i-read-across-and-understand-nothing' welcome

[tropo]

Here, from Wikipedia is a list of the most widely spoken languages in the world by native speakers (spoken as a first, second or foreign language, however, pushes English way into first place with up to 1.8 billion speakers).

Mandarin 845 million

Spanish 329 million

English 328 million

Hindi-Urdu 240 million

Arabic 206 million

Bengali 181 million

Portuguese 178 million

Russian 144 million

Japanese 122 million

Punjabi 109 million

Just for information...

This is definitely incorrect for English speakers.

Just for starters:

Population of main English speaking countries:

USA: 313 million

UK: 62 million

Australia & NZ: 26 million

Canada: 34 million

That's a total of 435 million

Add to that the Philippines of population 100 million where English is an official language and all educated people speak it. In Hong Kong (7 million) and South Africa (49 million) it's also an official language.

This would easily put English in 2nd place on the above list.

[Jingthing]

Add India.

Official language(s)

Hindi, English

Population -- over a BILLION

Another thing I would like to clarify. I think some people are reading this topic, Russification, as being all about the increase in the use of Russian LANGUAGE in Pattaya. That isn't the intended meaning for the topic and poll. It's about ALL aspects of the demographic bubble of Russian people in town. Including language of course, but that's just one part of it.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Jingthing

[tropo]

Add India.

Official language(s)

Hindi, English

Population -- over a BILLION

Another thing I would like to clarify. I think some people are reading this topic, Russification, as being all about the increase in the use of Russian LANGUAGE in Pattaya. That isn't the intended meaning for the topic and poll. It's about ALL aspects of the demographic bubble of Russian people in town. Including language of course, but that's just one part of it.

I think it's a great idea to introduce other languages to Pattaya. Arabic, Chinese, Korean, Russian and Indian tourists combined would surely surpass English speaking ones at this stage.

What a shock to English speakers who arrogantly expect all others to be able to speak or understand it due to its supposed world dominance.

It's all about business. We had the same thing occur on the Gold Coast, Australia in the 80's. Japanese flocked to the area and Japanese language schools sprung up everywhere.

[Jingthing]

Personally, I LOVE diversity. I just don't love if one group gets overly dominant. That is not good for diversity. Also agree more Chinese would be great, because lets face it Chinese food is seriously better than Russian food.

[Darrel]

lets face it Chinese food is seriously better than Russian food.

Most food is better than Russian food. Possible exceptions are those unpronounceable -istan places where they serve tepid mutton fat to guests. Actually I think they may still be part of Russia (no one else wants them).

[tropo]

Personally, I LOVE diversity. I just don't love if one group gets overly dominant. That is not good for diversity. Also agree more Chinese would be great, because lets face it Chinese food is seriously better than Russian food.

Personally I don't really dig Chinese food, but I don't like to diss any particular food because the people from those countries like their food. When I visit my wife's province in the Philippines I can hardly find anything I like to eat - but they all love it. She does't like the same food I like. Who's to say which is best?

[andrew55]

I wonder back in the 70's or 80's if someone was asking if 'Westernizing' (OR..Germanizing, Britishizing, or Americanizing) of Pattaya was a good thing or not? i am a Westerner who grew up with the "Cold War" and wonder if the post WWII generation of Westerners cannot give up their stereotype of people from the former Soviet Union and still carry their negative feelings left from the propaganda that they grew up with as a child???? I moved here 6 years ago (because of job) and there were very few Russian visiting Pattaya so i have also witnessed the boom of numbers. If it wasn't for the tourists being 80% (my estimate) Russians, many hotels, restaurants, shops and tourist sights would be hurting. I find it refreshing to see families and couples visiting Pattaya other than just the single horny male tourist. True, the mannerisms of most Russians are a bit abbrasive...cold...'"different" but one has to understand that every culture is different and the fact that the older generation grew up under communism would make them less 'people friendly" The younger generation is more 'worldly" than their parents and are speaking the internnational language of English. Yes, there have been some rude (according to my upbringing) actions of some Russians that i have runned into (such as Russian men at the fitness center always wanting to 'butt in" my use of a weight machine; or not waiting their turn to get on a baht bus) but i just roll my eyes thinking they are just clueless to what is being polite. I remember when I first went overseas, some of the mistakes I made... not standing in a straight 'cue' when waiting for a bus in London; eating with my left hand in Arabia; not getting out of my seat when an elderly lady entered a Skytrain in Bangkok; not properly greeting the elders at a dinner in Turkey...the list goes on. Yes, there are many Russians visiting Thailand, but i do not think they are "taking over the city" -- I still see American fast food restaurant chains/ European clothing chains/ British mega stores being the major international businesses here; not a Volga or Moscow shopping complex.

Good post.

Thank you.

[Jingthing]

Who's to say which is best?

Food experts.

[tropo]

Who's to say which is best?

Food experts.

LOL

I need a food expert to tell me what I prefer? My lady needs a food expert to tell her what she should be eating?

That's ridiculous.

Edited March 9, 2011 by tropo

[Jingthing]

Not what you prefer. What is the best. They aren't the same thing, most likely.

Maybe you don't get what I mean, so here's what I mean. I defy you to find even one internationally recognized non-Russian member of the foodie elite (could be a master chef, food writer, food critic, etc.) who would say that Russian food rates higher than Chinese food or even Mexican food as among the most wonderful cuisines in the world. I know its a cliche but generally the two national cuisines that invariably rate near or at the top of these kinds of lists are Chinese (including the vastness of the regions there of course) and French. There are a number of others that often rate very high. Russian? Not so much.

BTW, I like Russian food well enough, as another option in the banquet of choices.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Jingthing

[tropo]

Not what you prefer. What is the best. They aren't the same thing, most likely.

Maybe you don't get what I mean, so here's what I mean. I defy you to find even one internationally recognized non-Russian member of the foodie elite (could be a master chef, food writer, food critic, etc.) who would say that Russian food rates higher than Chinese food or even Mexican food as among the most wonderful cuisines in the world. I know its a cliche but generally the two national cuisines that invariably rate near or at the top of these kinds of lists are Chinese (including the vastness of the regions there of course) and French. There are a number of others that often rate very high. Russian? Not so much.

I do actually get what you mean, but when it comes to taste, smell and art I strongly disagree that "experts" can tell people what is best.

Perhaps Russian food critics would not agree. Do you not think that Russians may consider their food the best in the world for them - the food that they most enjoy eating.

Certainly if you get off the beaten path you'll find 10's of millions, even 100's of millions of people who could not even stomach what these so called "food experts" consider good food.

Food experts may argue over which particular dish is best within a cuisine, but saying one cuisine is better than another is like saying that bananas taste better than strawberries or apples...or perhaps that snails and frogs legs are better than cockroaches and scorpions.

I've seen too many people salivate over what I wouldn't even consider edible to prescribe to your theories.

You have to consider also that Chinese food served up in Western Chinese restaurants is not usually the genuine Chinese article. This reminds me of an Australian friend who could not find Pad Thai in Thailand to compare with what he ordered in his favourite Thai restaurant in Australia. The food is usually given a local flavour to suit the local palete.

[Jingthing]

The latest buzz in the foodie world is that the best Chinese restaurants in the world are in Vancouver, Canada and that's also coming from experts from China. Now, that's western. Of course Russians would tend to be more biased towards Russian, just as French are more likely to be more biased towards French. I am talking about more internationally seasoned opinions that go beyond national bias. Anyway, this discussion has become silly. We are talking about two different things, personal tastes vs. more objective criteria, and you say you get it, but I don't really believe you.

Next ...

Edited March 9, 2011 by Jingthing

[tropo]

The latest buzz in the foodie world is that the best Chinese restaurants in the world are in Vancouver, Canada and that's also coming from experts from China. Now, that's western. Of course Russians would tend to be more biased towards Russian, just as French are more likely to be more biased towards French. I am talking about more internationally seasoned opinions that go beyond national bias. Anyway, this discussion has become silly. We are talking about two different things, personal tastes vs. more objective criteria, and you say you get it, but I don't really believe you.

Next ...

(If you think the discussion is silly, then don't respond. I'll decide for myself when I'm ready to quit)

I know exactly what you're on about. You have it in your head that certain food is better than other food because "food experts" say it's so. I'm saying this is as ridiculous as saying apples taste better than oranges or snails taste better than grasshoppers.

Back to topic.

Russian food is no better or worse than other food. It all depends on who's eating it.

IMO the only reason why Chinese restaurants have flourished in many Western countries is because it's fast, cheap and easy to prepare and lends itself to takeaway.

Next...

[neil324]

The latest buzz in the foodie world is that the best Chinese restaurants in the world are in Vancouver, Canada and that's also coming from experts from China. Now, that's western. Of course Russians would tend to be more biased towards Russian, just as French are more likely to be more biased towards French. I am talking about more internationally seasoned opinions that go beyond national bias. Anyway, this discussion has become silly. We are talking about two different things, personal tastes vs. more objective criteria, and you say you get it, but I don't really believe you.

Next ...

(If you think the discussion is silly, then don't respond. I'll decide for myself when I'm ready to quit)

I know exactly what you're on about. You have it in your head that certain food is better than other food because "food experts" say it's so. I'm saying this is as ridiculous as saying apples taste better than oranges or snails taste better than grasshoppers.

Back to topic.

Russian food is no better or worse than other food. It all depends on who's eating it.

IMO the only reason why Chinese restaurants have flourished in many Western countries is because it's fast, cheap and easy to prepare and lends itself to takeaway.

Next...

Horse crap.

It's because it taste's nice.

[Jingthing]

Oy. You really don't get it! I am not talking about Chinese takeout from a mediocre joint. I am talking about the richness and breadth of all Chinese cooking styles, and no, it's not all going on in China.

[tropo]

Horse crap.

It's because it taste's nice.

Now you do have unusual taste. How do you serve your horse crap? With ketchup?

[tropo]

Oy. You really don't get it! I am not talking about Chinese takeout from a mediocre joint. I am talking about the richness and breadth of all Chinese cooking styles, and no, it's not all going on in China.

You don't get it at all. No one cuisine is better than another. It is all about personal taste.

FYI, I don't like Chinese food cooked at any joint. I prefer Russian food.

(Didn't you say this discussion was too silly to continue?)

Edited March 9, 2011 by tropo

[Ulysses G.]

I'm not trying to give Jingthing a hard time as he seems to have excellent taste in food and I much prefer Chinese food too, but it really is up to the individual.