Do You Think The Russification Of Pattaya Is A Good Thing Or Not?

[Jingthing]

Lately almost every day I go out, some Russians are approaching me and speaking Russian at me, without even bothering asking me if I speak it. It's not a big deal of course but this has only started this year for me, like it's a critical population mass of Russians that is resulting in these kinds of assumptions. OK, maybe I look extra friendly (ha ha) or can pass for the look of a person that might be from Russia.

[tropo]

Recently I was in Vietnam's "Phu Quoc" island and Mui Ne beach, until a few years ago pure backpacker destinations. What was it full of???

You guessed it - - - Russians!

What I find amusing is how some of you seem surprised when you see lots of Russians somewhere in tropical SE Asia. If you go someplace because you like it why wouldn't the Russians like it. You could complement them on their good taste.

Perhaps you need to be reminded (or educated) that Russia is a very populous free nation which is relatively close to Thailand. Add to that the fact that Russia is a very cold country for much of the year and what do you get - instant Russians.

[tropo]

Lately almost every day I go out, some Russians are approaching me and speaking Russian at me, without even bothering asking me if I speak it. It's not a big deal of course but this has only started this year for me, like it's a critical population mass of Russians that is resulting in these kinds of assumptions. OK, maybe I look extra friendly (ha ha) or can pass for the look of a person that might be from Russia.

Could there ever be a critical mass of Russians too much for you to bear and make you consider leaving?

[Jingthing]

Lately almost every day I go out, some Russians are approaching me and speaking Russian at me, without even bothering asking me if I speak it. It's not a big deal of course but this has only started this year for me, like it's a critical population mass of Russians that is resulting in these kinds of assumptions. OK, maybe I look extra friendly (ha ha) or can pass for the look of a person that might be from Russia.

Could there ever be a critical mass of Russians too much for you to bear and make you consider leaving?

I can't imagine it really. This is Thailand, so there will always be lots of Thais around and I can't imagine many of them are going to master Russian, which is more difficult to learn than English. I don't mind being addressed in Russian but I must say I haven't enjoyed most of the responses so much when I politely tell them I don't speak it.

Also I expect over time more non tour bus Chinese travelers and the Middle Eastern demographic is ever increasing.

Edited April 7, 2011 by Jingthing

[morrobay]

Lately almost every day I go out, some Russians are approaching me and speaking Russian at me, without even bothering asking me if I speak it. It's not a big deal of course but this has only started this year for me, like it's a critical population mass of Russians that is resulting in these kinds of assumptions. OK, maybe I look extra friendly (ha ha) or can pass for the look of a person that might be from Russia.

Could there ever be a critical mass of Russians too much for you to bear and make you consider leaving?

Its the critical mass of Thais that would make me consider leaving

[leoalex]

I think peoples here not have any right to speak about 'russians good or bad' or 'is good what russians in pattaya or not'.

most of peoples here is downshifters, it mean what you leave your homeland (very patriotic, haha) and selected another place to live. mostly because summer and girls. so moral is here - you cannot see your own wrong things, but like to judge another peoples and get only pleasures from life..

Basically you just immigrants here (some also illegal immigrants ), who may be have some money (just because lucky), but really your brain is not suit thailand needs. because your western ideas (but here is not your homeland), different money sources (often illegal here), your jugdements (bad because not like in my homeland).

So specially for persons created and supporting this topic - return back your homeland, listen your local propaganda and make your xenophobic ideas grow more and more. But out of your homeland you here just 'third-world' alien (like from ufo) (it because different goverments created this ideas/visas/anti-immigrants things/etc), who just cannot ek-ek-ek about another locals or "frogs from another lake". Otherwise your just creating more and more xenophobic ideas for all "lakes".

PS: any western farangs is also very not ideal here - just read the news.

[leoalex]

The people this survey should be aimed at is the local Thai population.

I only get one view from any Thai I meet.

They are not happy.

They see Russian "lady" work bar.

They see the beaches crowded with them but buy nothing.

They see the swimming pools crowded with them.

They never dress reservedly in the shops and malls.

They comandeer Baht Busses to go where they want and do not consider any one else. I have had several detours to Cozy beach planned for me - I just rang the bell got off and walked back to Thrappaya road - the driver is going to get crazy money any way - he does not need my 10 baht.

They haggle with local vendors on items that cost pennies in the first place...

On the property front - they are creating ghettos.

When I transfer money from my UK bank I am asked all sorts of questions about "money laundering" for security reasons.

But I know for a fact Russian/Eastern Block people buy blocks of condo apartments - 10 at a time - fully furnish them and .....walk away.

They never rent them out or come back to holiday in them.

Drug money well hidden.

The only locals that seem to benefit are 7/11's Family Marts, Baht taxi drivers and and Food Courts in the likes of Tesco and Big C...

One local RAG newspaper was quoting from its own survey that some Russian Tourist was on about people from the UK being surly and abusive....even my Thai GF laughed at that....she knows the people from UK are only surly and abusive to to ones that started the surly competition.....

please post a headline when you hear or see any of them having a good time !!!!!

By the way it is not just Pattaya the Russians are moving in on...Cypres, Spain, Portugal and for a long time now the South of France.

But, believe me there aint no way to turn back this tide of humanity.....I remember seeing the wall come down and thinking.....no good will come of this.....

just my humble opinion...

did you see british bangkok bums? i have seen and asked for money by them. i think locals who seen that guys also will have simular emotions about british peoples. also thais see how many british/usa business here taking money out abroad, and see how most of farangs using their girls (both ways of course) and trashing money everywhere. how them drink and drunk, how them stupid sometimes. of course thai not will say you it directly, but if not related you (to not lost face locally) - them can tell you it about another farangs.

also - just for fun - ask what they think about indians, here is not too much tourists from india by the way.

btw - cannot make decisions based on only few individuals from big nation. but you trying to do it. not forget what russians come here for holiday, not to make 'presentation" for you.

just 2 cents, in responce.

[Naam]

I think peoples here not have any right to speak about 'russians good or bad' or 'is good what russians in pattaya or not'.

most of peoples here is downshifters, it mean what you leave your homeland (very patriotic, haha) and selected another place to live. mostly because summer and girls. so moral is here - you cannot see your own wrong things, but like to judge another peoples and get only pleasures from life..

Bravo leoalex!

when the high and mighty Farangs are bored making derogatory statements about their host country Thailand and its indigenous population they focus on something else to bitch about. and those who (most probably) don't own a pot to piss in complain with obvious envy about people who buy "blocks of condos which are not rented out" as if it is any of their concern and top it with allegations such as "drug money"

[leoalex]

I already explained why. That ENGLISH if the international language of commerce and tourism is a clear FACT. It doesn't matter if more people in the world speak a form of Chinese than English -- they are mostly in China or part of the Chinese diaspora.

I am not objecting at all to a business serving incoming Russian tour needs is an all Russian business. On the other hand, I was very annoyed the other day when a Russian restaurant not only stated they won't ever have an English menu, but refused to even try to tell me about they food they offered (given the person telling me this was speaking clear English). Hopefully this is not a trend, and I am not singling out Russians, I have had even worse experiences, most dramatically at a Korean restaurant where I was rudely ordered to GO AWAY. I applaud the effort many places are making now to offer Russian translations; the Russians are here, why not fully serve and welcome them? Of course.

not true. english is not international language in any way. lot of peoples not speaking english, their country not speaking english, most of europe not speaking english. lot of examples. germany, where most of peoples not speaking english, lot of other countries.

you get this idea just because you see english signs everywhere here you think what it international language. Is here any official document to proove it? Oh, no. not have a such document.

It Thailand english is everywhere because first farangs here was americans border-visitors. only that reason.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Rimmer

[leoalex]

You get the final word, mate. I think readers can make their own decisions on whether English or Russian is the REAL international language in the world today.

funny to read it in 'pattaya russification' topic. some peoples tell here what not liked russification here, but you give our 'final words'

your 2 cents, our 2 cents, who cares. all countries is great ;-)

[leoalex]

Russia isn't a real democracy so what does voting once or a hundred times have to with the price of beets? Let me know when you see Spaniards and Germans mostly talking to each other in Russian or Swahila or whatever, any language other than English ...

Next ...

real democracy is just beautifull word. nothing more. nowhere in world have real democracy, it just cute idea which everybody using for own purposes. just everywhere goverments takes national control and using them as they want and trying to control another nations using 'this cute word'.

[leoalex]

Some very interesting reactions to this poll.

I belong to a linguistic minority (at least here in Thailand) and having had to endure the Anglification of Pattaya for many a year, I see no harm in the Russification that is happening right now. What amazes me however is the fact that so many native English speakers are still in the " Rule Brittania " mindset, and find it a god given right that the whole world should speak English.

Languages divide peoples into groups and within these groups it is perfectly normal that one prefers his/her language.

End of rant

Yermanee

totally agree with you. really here is nothing to discuss, all this topics/posts happen only because one peoples think what them better then anothers. and them discuss only level of them brain propaganda here.

[leoalex]

The current crop of Russian tourists may get Thailand businesses through a difficult period, and in that sense they are useful and helpful. But they do not help Pattaya (or Thailand more generally) to develop into a broadly accepted/desireable tourist destination. And the focus on Russian language is, in my view, a real and serious detriment to Thailand's tourist development in the long run. Thailand needs and wants to attract "higher grade" tourists with relatively better education and incomes (and therefore spending capacity). Those tourists will have English speaking ability and come from many countries, which, like it or not, is now the universal language of the moderately educated groups when outside their home countries, and Thais for their own benefit and mobility in and outside Thailand need to learn English, not Russian. The lower class Europeans that used to fill Pattaya didn't help the tourist industry develop, but they didn't hurt it either -- they spoke and understood English. The non-English speaking Russians, especially in controlling numbers, seriously hurt Pattaya's efforts to develop into a middle class tourist destination for the general public. Thai businesses should resist the signs in Russian and hotels should avoid employing Russian interpreters, and focus on English (and Thai) only. But we live in the short run (and in the long run we are all dead), so we will likely need to put up with the undesireable but "necessary" lower class Russians that are here in large numbers now, and accept the fact that growth does not always move in a straight line.

Want something is not mean "get or have something". if you not keep what you have, have chances to lost it. also tourists usually make decission themself where to go and where to spent their money. for business it no matter language spoken. your company for example can learn russian now to get more new customers, otherwise you just will lost them. It all about "english is universal", if you will don't know russian - you will loose russian customers but will still keep idea what "english is universal". true is it not universal. If it really universal - we not have such talks about it.

In touristic place all languages can co-exists easily (what happing right now at pattaya and at others touristic destinations).

any toursts (english or not, high level or not) also not help to thailand, them just go here for beach, sun, drink & fun and nothing else. even expats here for same reasons, but somebody can found own business or wife - factor which keep them here.

tourists is just way to bring money to country, not to "help". but some "tourists" work here as volunteurs, some give money to isaan gf - this is real help to real peoples. spending money is only help to local business and goverment as taxes. But also any tourists creating workplaces for locals. So it can considered as help to locals.

It not matter which language spoken in hotel, peoples here to

1. spend money

2. pay taxes via local busines/hotels to local goverment

3. give work places for locals (any services/hotels/etc). even sex tourism.

no tourists = no money, no non-english speaking tourists = less money, less workplaces for locals. so it can show you importance of any tourist groups. capitalism here, not high moral language ideals.

[leoalex]

2) Did you notice, that some of them actually try and talk to you.

LOL. Yes, quite a few Russians have tried to talk to me in Russian. They seemed surprised I didn't speak it.

I didn't know Russians read Thai Visa.

wow, lot of them here. but i think him mean 'talk with him locally'.

just for note - because of this topics at russian forums this forum often mentioned as xenofobic forum. Sorry to administration, but such topics is really aganist your own rules.

[Jingthing]

I don't think I ever said "English is universal" nor would I expect everyone to speak English. I did say something like if a Spaniard is trying to talk to a German in a third country, chances are they will be speaking in English (if they can). It would be much rarer if both could speak some Russian. That's just the way it is, and continues to be, and appears to be becoming more so, so DEAL WITH IT.

OK, so native English speakers are kind of lucky that way, we can travel to most countries in the world and be pretty sure we can get by at least for simple tourist things, so more of us feel comfortable traveling independently without tours. Pattaya has now become a place Russians without English can expect to navigate OK without speaking English or the native language. Certainly that isn't the case of much of the world. Thus, the topic here, Russification of Pattaya.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Jingthing

[leoalex]

I think peoples here not have any right to speak about 'russians good or bad' or 'is good what russians in pattaya or not'.

most of peoples here is downshifters, it mean what you leave your homeland (very patriotic, haha) and selected another place to live. mostly because summer and girls. so moral is here - you cannot see your own wrong things, but like to judge another peoples and get only pleasures from life..

Bravo leoalex!

when the high and mighty Farangs are bored making derogatory statements about their host country Thailand and its indigenous population they focus on something else to bitch about. and those who (most probably) don't own a pot to piss in complain with obvious envy about people who buy "blocks of condos which are not rented out" as if it is any of their concern and top it with allegations such as "drug money"

it true, it really thing which i never understand in some westeners. Them was enough lucky to born in 'developed country' and get some money, but it is not give them any right to judge peoples who not such lucky as them.

[leoalex]

I don't think I ever said "English is universal" nor would I expect everyone to speak English. I did say something like if a Spaniard is trying to talk to a German in a third country, chances are they will be speaking in English (if they can). It would be much rarer if both could speak some Russian. That's just the way it is, and continues to be, and appears to be becoming more so, so DEAL WITH IT.

OK, so native English speakers are kind of lucky that way, we can travel to most countries in the world and be pretty sure we can get by at least for simple tourist things, so more of us feel comfortable traveling independently without tours. Pattaya has now become a place Russians without English can expect to navigate OK without speaking English or the native language. Certainly that isn't the case of much of the world. Thus, the topic here, Russification of Pattaya.

ok, but this is thailand forum. so we speaking not about how german and spanish peoples will talk together. funny, but it can be italian language, french or dutch, not only english. Just check statistics how many % of peoples learning in EU schools english language.

also here we speaking about russians, how you can see most of them not speaking english. So you can just accept it or not. but answer is only one - at least at pattaya here english is not so universal language. just because first here was english speaking peoples - most of locals learn english for their business. But time changing and some local business starting to learning also russian because huge % of peoples who don't know which language is universal and speaking their own language.

[surayu]

In light of some of the recent posts, i decided to develop a " rational for the dummyes" kit.

Before reading how it works, bear in mind which the english language is not my first language (as you can probably already see), by no means i consider a particular language superior/inferior to another (however some deep technical and not biased study on this, might actually proof that a particular language might hit his target in a better way than another).

Lets start.

Take a plane and go visits many different countries of the world, then start using the english language as a way to communicate and see the response you get.

Now try the same with any other of the world's languages and compare.

These are facts, either if you like them or not, you might decide to go against the rationality to choose the best of the available options, i am not sure for what reasons, you might be an english language hater, a lover of the chaos or just a "bit" thick, whatever the reasons might be, i hope this little diy system can help you to find the truth, for your own good....and ours

:jap:

[actiondell4]

Sorry to disagree with all of you,but I find the young Arabic males much much more bad mannered and itimidating than the Russians.

One only has to walk thru Soi Yensabai to see them roaring up and down the soi on their rented motorbikes without disregard for anyone.

[surayu]

it true, it really thing which i never understand in some westeners. Them was enough lucky to born in 'developed country' and get some money, but it is not give them any right to judge peoples who not such lucky as them.

Have no fear brothers, Surayu today is here to help you understanding the part of the "westerners" he belongs to (belonging to a "way to see life" in a certain manner rather than another, not intended as a race/country as we have many different point of views as a quick glance at the forum itself can demonstrate).

Start with this, having or not having money should never prejudice your right to have your own opinion on something, we all make mistakes, talking about our different "views" might help in understanding something we might have not previously even considered.

Knowledge is power and freedom, don't be afraid to fight for other people rights because next time it might be you needing some "backup", eradicating the bad things of this society can only help, think of a field full of weeds, if you don't take them out quickly they will spread all over at the expenses of your veggies, does it make sense to you?

[Naam]

i consider the "russification" of Pattaya as a positive factor for the indigenous Thais living here. the Russians seem to provide a perfect alternative and welcome diversion for frustrated Farangs to bitch about which gives Thais a (temporary) relief.

[surayu]

"russification" of Pattaya

Whatever "countryfication" of Pattaya it's good, as long as it did not create an additional barrier to people or bring more bad habits to a place which is not exactly already excelling in self or other people respect.

Obviously if you have a gardner that speak both english and russian languages than it's an easy life...

[leoalex]

i consider the "russification" of Pattaya as a positive factor for the indigenous Thais living here. the Russians seem to provide a perfect alternative and welcome diversion for frustrated Farangs to bitch about which gives Thais a (temporary) relief.

looks like money not have nationality :jap:

[Schooner]

I don't mind them as long as they keep bringing their blonde women. Pattaya has room for everyone as far as I'm concerned and it's really up the the Thai's. It is still their country not with standning certain farangs who think they know what is better.

I agree with LeoAlex, just because we were lucky enough to be born in a developed country it dosn't make us any better.

[Naam]

"russification" of Pattaya

Whatever "countryfication" of Pattaya it's good, as long as it did not create an additional barrier to people or bring more bad habits to a place which is not exactly already excelling in self or other people respect.

Obviously if you have a gardner that speak both english and russian languages than it's an easy life...

incidentally i had russian guests in my house last week who spoke English and German. but i never saw any Russians in my garden. perhaps i should check more often especially the vegetable section?

[surayu]

perhaps i should check more often especially the vegetable section?

...

[tropo]

I don't mind them as long as they keep bringing their blonde women. Pattaya has room for everyone as far as I'm concerned and it's really up the the Thai's. It is still their country not with standning certain farangs who think they know what is better.

I agree with LeoAlex, just because we were lucky enough to be born in a developed country it dosn't make us any better.

You hit the nail on the head. I reckon 99% of Farang think they are better even if they'll never admit it.

BTW, what happened to Jingthing? I would have thought he'd be posting more fervently seeing it's Songkran and he won't be venturing out of his home.

Edited April 19, 2011 by tropo

[surayu]

I agree with LeoAlex, just because we were lucky enough to be born in a developed country it dosn't make us any better.

You hit the nail on the head. I reckon 99% of Farang think they are better even if they'll never admit it.

Being born in a developed country doesn't make an individual better, but supposedly put that particular individual in a better position because of all the tools and freedom available he can make use of, even with this clear advantage, someone still can manage to become "worse" of whom hasn't got that luck....

Even with worksmanship, if you had a choice and not be legally challenged if employing a foreigner, which professional would you hire to fix your electricity,plumbing,etc... , personally i would still hire a "local" just for the fun of it and the many "surprises" you get when the job is done, it's like Christmas Day everyday(the one with a Bad Santa)..... ....well, hold on, can i get a few more minutes to think about it?

[samran]

"russification" of Pattaya

Whatever "countryfication" of Pattaya it's good, as long as it did not create an additional barrier to people or bring more bad habits to a place which is not exactly already excelling in self or other people respect.

Obviously if you have a gardner that speak both english and russian languages than it's an easy life...

incidentally i had russian guests in my house last week who spoke English and German. but i never saw any Russians in my garden. perhaps i should check more often especially the vegetable section?

I thought it was reds under the beds? Ha ha.

If the russkies help transform Pattaya from knock shop of Asia into some sort of Cryllic lettered Minsk by the sea full of families and other tourists going to the beach, getting drunk and pushing in on the baht bus, then it is a step up me thinks for Pattaya as a whole.

So I say, Da!

[Jingthing]

Update on the Russification of menus in town.

While I welcome Russian translations of menus, do I detect a trend now to offer ONLY Russian menus with no English?

If so, I say phooey!

There is a newish place on Jomtien Beach Road called AREMENIA.

They serve Armenian food aimed at the Eastern European market here. Great! There is no English signage on the outside except for the place's name.

Ask for an English menu, get a blank state, but presented with a picture menu with Russian but no English. Well I can tell what about half the dishes are, but not the other half.

Anyway, I don't like this possible trend but I guess I'll try their food sometime. They didn't seem to have a problem with pointing at the pictures.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Jingthing