Up Grade

[drum]

just about to up-grade to a 7d,,until i read about the new 60d which i under stand is released in april coming,,reviews are saying there almost the same,but 60d being £400 cheaper, any input about these camera's would be useful

[Tywais]

Actually the Canon 60D has been available for a while now. 60D dpreview August 2010

Comparing 60D 550D and 7D

fotofile.net 60D prices

If you go to YouTube you can find several comparison videos of them. I've been looking at the 60D as a possibility for a while now.

[BangkokImages]

It's impossible to know which comparisons are important to you without knowing what you use a camera for, and with what lenses.

The 7d with it's 8fps frame rate and fast buffers is great for sports and/or wildlife shooters, but not so important for taking portraits or street shooting. The smaller size/weight of the 60d would be an advantage if size/weight is an issue, street shooting, or just packing along for travel.

There's much more to consider. What do you use a camera for?

[drum]

It's impossible to know which comparisons are important to you without knowing what you use a camera for, and with what lenses.

The 7d with it's 8fps frame rate and fast buffers is great for sports and/or wildlife shooters, but not so important for taking portraits or street shooting. The smaller size/weight of the 60d would be an advantage if size/weight is an issue, street shooting, or just packing along for travel.

There's much more to consider. What do you use a camera for?

i have a 450d now,,i just use it for travel and everyday photo's, its light and easy to use,,, now i want to up the anti,for a good all round camera,, i know there is a 60d on the market,the reviews ive read say its on par with the 7d,also the build quality,,,ive handeld both and no way is the 60d has the same build quality, but ive read there is a new 60d being released april coming,??

[BangkokImages]

It's impossible to know which comparisons are important to you without knowing what you use a camera for, and with what lenses.

The 7d with it's 8fps frame rate and fast buffers is great for sports and/or wildlife shooters, but not so important for taking portraits or street shooting. The smaller size/weight of the 60d would be an advantage if size/weight is an issue, street shooting, or just packing along for travel.

There's much more to consider. What do you use a camera for?

i have a 450d now,,i just use it for travel and everyday photo's, its light and easy to use,,, now i want to up the anti,for a good all round camera,, i know there is a 60d on the market,the reviews ive read say its on par with the 7d,also the build quality,,,ive handeld both and no way is the 60d has the same build quality, but ive read there is a new 60d being released april coming,??

Have you considered a new T3i? (600d) They're remarkably capable, much improved over the 450d, and still very small and light. Relatively inexpensive too. And it uses the same sensor as the 60d and 7d unless I'm mistaking.. The 60d frame rate is a bit more, but not much. The T3i universally gets rave reviews.

The new 60d is a different camera than the 50d it replaced. It now has a different frame, more lightweight plastic construction, and has positioned itself right above the T3i in the Canon line up. Size wise, it sits almost exactly between the T3i and the 7d.. performance wise too.

Without knowing what you shoot it's impossible to recommend one over the other, as they're all good cameras at their levels. However, is size/weight is a priority I'd really look a the T3i. It's very different from what you have now.

Personally, I'd either save some money and get the T3i, or go for the 7d for it's more solid build and 8fps frame rate. The 60d doesn't interest me.

[Tywais]

but ive read there is a new 60d being released april coming,??

Have you considered a new T3i? (600d)

Suspect the 600D is what drum is referring to as the release date is in April and a lower price than the 60D.

[ETatBKK]

yeah, all these cameras are good cameras for different needs and applications. share my opinion here :

7D, aim for serious shoots ! before you could see a slightly better image quality - less noise in low light and in high ISO speed, you seriously feel the WEIGHT ! also, with today's DSLR lifecycle, the beauty of 7D will be faded in just a year or two **.

60D, good enough for any non-professional applications ( professional = earn your living ). it has slightly better feature variances than 7D, make shooting more fun.

600D, an entry level that easy for beginners, more fun as well :-)

if you really look for quality, start with 5D mark II then !!

** in the age of Canon F1 film camera, I put money in the camera body; in the era of DSLR, I put money on the super good lens ( that make hell of differences :-)

[astral]

You do not say what you are upgrading from??

I have a 40D and see no real need to change,

it still does the job, and I do not need the video option of the latest models

or the extra pixels.

A good second hand camera might just suit your needs?

[drum]

but ive read there is a new 60d being released april coming,??

Have you considered a new T3i? (600d)

Suspect the 600D is what drum is referring to as the release date is in April and a lower price than the 60D.

my mistake,it could well be the 600d,

why im confused is im reading amature phopographer 12 3 2011, front cover is 7d v 60d, review to be released april coming,,

[drum]

You do not say what you are upgrading from??

I have a 40D and see no real need to change,

it still does the job, and I do not need the video option of the latest models

or the extra pixels.

A good second hand camera might just suit your needs?

450d i have now, and use it for everyday shots,it is a good light camera,i use 55-250 18-135 55-85 lenses,

[drum]

yeah, all these cameras are good cameras for different needs and applications. share my opinion here :

7D, aim for serious shoots ! before you could see a slightly better image quality - less noise in low light and in high ISO speed, you seriously feel the WEIGHT ! also, with today's DSLR lifecycle, the beauty of 7D will be faded in just a year or two **.

60D, good enough for any non-professional applications ( professional = earn your living ). it has slightly better feature variances than 7D, make shooting more fun.

600D, an entry level that easy for beginners, more fun as well :-)

if you really look for quality, start with 5D mark II then !!

** in the age of Canon F1 film camera, I put money in the camera body; in the era of DSLR, I put money on the super good lens ( that make hell of differences :-)

i have priced the 5d mark 2, maybe out of my ability has a beginner, i want to up grade from 450d, so im looking for the next leval or even 2 levals up from this model,

[BangkokImages]

yeah, all these cameras are good cameras for different needs and applications. share my opinion here :

7D, aim for serious shoots ! before you could see a slightly better image quality - less noise in low light and in high ISO speed, you seriously feel the WEIGHT ! also, with today's DSLR lifecycle, the beauty of 7D will be faded in just a year or two **.

60D, good enough for any non-professional applications ( professional = earn your living ). it has slightly better feature variances than 7D, make shooting more fun.

600D, an entry level that easy for beginners, more fun as well :-)

if you really look for quality, start with 5D mark II then !!

** in the age of Canon F1 film camera, I put money in the camera body; in the era of DSLR, I put money on the super good lens ( that make hell of differences :-)

i have priced the 5d mark 2, maybe out of my ability has a beginner, i want to up grade from 450d, so im looking for the next leval or even 2 levals up from this model,

You haven't said what features or needs you need to improve over your current 450d. If you haven't defined this, then no advice will serve you well.

1. It's nonsense to say any of these models are for a beginner, pro, intermediate, etc. It just doesn't work that way. I guarantee you you'll find many wedding photographers and portrait studios making great money who are using entry level DSLR's. They simply fit their needs in a professional capacity. Often the difference between a professional and a beginner, is that the professional knows what they need and only buys to that level. For instance: I enjoy a top level 1ds Mark III full frame body for covering weddings. Must have features for weddings are dual flash cards that write the same file to both cards at the same time, a full frame sensor for the best high ISO image quality as many customers ask for 'flashless" weddings, and the focusing system needs to be the best possible because missing a shot in a wedding means missing the shot forever. No other camera in Canon's line qualifies for MY needs because of the type of weddings I offer my clients. But at the same time I use a 350d (yep, a very old what you already have) at the same weddings for a portrait booth I set up for guests. Since guests are already dressed nice and with family, we provide the opportunity to have professional portraits taken at greatly reduced prices. For such work the strobes are what make this type of portrait and the camera matters very little. In this case a 7 year old 350d is a professional camera. Each wedding photographer I know markets a different 'type' of package, and I've seen them use anything from the lowest level DSLR to the highest. Pay attention in many professional portrait studios and you'll often see them using simple point and shoots. In such cases it's a canned setup, the strobes/lighting are responsible for 90% of the image quality, and a cheap P&S on a tripod with a shutter release is all that's required to turn out entry level portrait packages. Real professionals NEVER buy more camera than they need. They're in it for money and only buy the minimum necessary to get the job done.

2. The 60d/7d/600d use the same sensor and same processing engine. If shooting RAW there will be no difference in image quality. There 'might' be slight differences in image quality when shooting jpegs due to the onboard processing capabilities (the more expensive models will often have dual or triple processors which enhance speed and allow a more complex jpeg processing). There will be differences in the viewfinder which I personally find very important. Look at the numbers and go to a store and using the same lens see the differences with your eyes. There will be differences in the autofocus and exposure systems. Read about them and see if they will make much difference in YOUR style of shooting. Lately there will be differences in video capabilities. Build quality is a double edge sword. My 1d series bodies are built like tanks, and weigh as much as one too. If you don't shoot in the rain or dust and grit, maybe you don't need a certain level of build quality. Maybe the weight savings will be more important to you than weather proofing because you don't shoot in the rain. But if you do shoot in the rain then weatherproofing is mandatory. Look at accessories and make sure the model you want takes the accessories you require. For instance, the 450d uses a very lightweight and simple external shutter release, it won't accept the more heavy duty shutter release nor the Intervalometer required for time lapse photography. Battery capacity might be important to someone who shoots a 1000 shot wedding, but not so much to someone who shoots a 200 shot wedding. It depends on style and needs.

3. Don't make the mistake of thinking any model is 'better' than another based only on price or because one model is newer than the other. Someone mentioned used bodies. This is an excellent suggestion. I have a original 5d which is capable of better high ISO shots, draws a more shallow DOF than a APC-S sensor body, and would excel over ANY current APC-S sensor for landscape or high ISO (low light) photography. You can get a nice used one for about $800 with low shots. I have a 1ds Mark II, a 16mp full frame body with all the top level features. Excellent camera which makes better images than any current APC-S sensor body. Used they're going for $1000-$1200.. If buying a used DSLR become familiar with how long their shutters generally last before having issues and pay attention to the shutter count of any bodies for sale.

4. I also have a 5d Mark II. Great body for what it does. Yet, if you shot sports or wildlife you might be better served with the 7d for it's sensor magnification factor and it's 8fps frame rate. More expensive does not mean it's better for YOUR needs. Know what your needs are and only buy what you need.

5. In most cases money spent on a quality lens will result in better images than will when spent on a body. I think you're safe from this as your 450d is rather old and the T3i (600d) which replaces it offers huge differences, but someone with say a 550d would certainly be better served spending their money on glass because there isn't 'that' much difference between a 550d and 600d. Quality lenses will actually go up in value after you own them for 4-5 years. Don't be afraid to spend money in this area. But again, know what you need, don't buy just any lens.

I could go on and on with examples and comparisons, but they mean nothing until you define your needs. And this isn't easy. I get people all the time in my workshops who have no idea what they need. Usually they start out thinking they do, but when you start asking the right questions they realize they don't. One of the value added features of a quality workshop is being able to try different bodies and lenses and having the instructor point out the relevant differences and how best to take advantage of them. Defining your needs takes a great deal of thought and more self-honesty than most are used to. Most people find it easier to just buy up to what they're comfortable spending, rather than give due thought to defining their needs.

To a great extent, photography is about defining the variables for a certain shot/composition, and often compromising one variable to achieve another. Balance. You might give up shutter speed to gain more DOF, but if you're not careful you then risk poor focus from too slow a shutter speed. You might increase ISO to get back that shutter speed, understanding you'll be giving up image detail and possibly color depth to get that shutter speed. The list is long, and this is why certain types of shooting/photography often requires different levels of cameras.

I understand this is a lot to think about, but that's why you're asking questions. Define your needs as completely and accurately as you possibly can, and I'm sure the people who have already responded can tell you what each model offers for your needs. Lots of good advice so far, but it can't be applied without knowing your needs.

I hope this helps.

[ETatBKK]

5D mark II not always the right solution, depends on what combinations of equipment you have now and what applications you need next ! Bangkokimages already stretched a very good bandwidth !

not that difficult thought, draw a straight line and one end is your 450D; then layout what desire quality, experience and effects along the line. check what camera and lenses could meet your needs, not jump too quick into functions and features. you need couple of these lines before you go into a camera shop :-)

perhaps, these are the COVER PAGES on top of a pile of camera catalogues :-)

** in the age of Canon F1 film camera, I put money in the camera body; in the era of DSLR, I put money on the super good lens ( that make hell of differences :-)

i have priced the 5d mark 2, maybe out of my ability has a beginner, i want to up grade from 450d, so im looking for the next leval or even 2 levals up from this model,

[drum]

thanks for the advice,,i use my 450d for just general photo;s i do like close up shots,and i thought the photo's i had taken were quite good,until i viewed photo;s my friend had taken on is 7d 18-135 lens,they just seemed more clear sharper and more colourful, so either i have not masterd my 450d as i thought,,

can i ask this question,to the professionals here,,, if some one asked you your advice on buying a new camera and lens for £1200 ish,,,what would you recomend

im talking for everyday use,holidays portraits close ups so on,

[powderpuff]

On television now they are running ads for 600D.

Has the swivel screen. A feature I wouldn't need.

The 18 MP CMOS is nice.

Why would you shop in pounds? The VAT will kill you. Buy in Thailand.

Edited March 22, 2011 by powderpuff

[BangkokImages]

thanks for the advice,,i use my 450d for just general photo;s i do like close up shots,and i thought the photo's i had taken were quite good,until i viewed photo;s my friend had taken on is 7d 18-135 lens,they just seemed more clear sharper and more colourful, so either i have not masterd my 450d as i thought,,

can i ask this question,to the professionals here,,, if some one asked you your advice on buying a new camera and lens for £1200 ish,,,what would you recomend

im talking for everyday use,holidays portraits close ups so on,

My guess, is that you're not using what you currently have to its full potential. I guarantee you I could put up images taken with my old 350d next to images from my 5d Mark II, and people would have a hard time telling them apart.

There's a lot to be said for proper post processing to get the most from your images. This is an essential skill and for every level of workshop I teach, I make sure at least 30% and preferably 40-50% of our time is spent on the computer critiquing the images and learning how to post process for the genre of photography we just shot.

There is also a lot to be said for learning how to focus the camera. Knowing which focus modes to use and when, which focus points to choose in the frame, and what shutter speeds and apertures produce the sharpest results (most clarity)..

1200 pounds is about $1700 USD's? If the person didn't have a camera I'd recommend something like this Canon T3i (600d) 18-135mm IS kit for $1099 USD's. If they could afford the 7d kit with the same lens at $1899.. so much the better.. but I wouldn't sweat the difference unless you shot sports or wildlife. And while the EF-S 18-135mm IS lens has received decent reviews, its still a lower end lens. Don't get me wrong, it's capable of very good results. But it leaves a lot of room for lens improvement.

Now.. if the person already had a 450d and 1200 pounds? I'd recommend no more EF-S lenses. As your photography skills improve you'll eventually want to go to a full frame sensor (5d Mark II, 1d4, 1ds3) and if you carefully choose your lenses the they could transfer just fine to a full frame body. So EF lenses, but no more EF-S lenses. For 1200 pounds you could get the Canon 24-105mm F4L IS lens.. and don't let anyone tell you this lens under performs. Properly used it's an awesome lens. If you like I'll link you to some images and crops that will show you the great detail the lens is capable of. The MFD (minimum focusing distance) is .45 meters.. or a foot and a half. If that's close enough for your "close ups" fine, if not you'd have enough left over for an entry level Macro lens such as this one. The 24-105mm F4L IS is as close to quality general purpose lens as Canon makes in an EF mount.

It's true that your 450d is dated, and the new 600d boasts significant improvements.. but you can probably get a lot more out of your 450d through proper focusing technique and post processing.. and it will rock with the right lens.

[powderpuff]

BI. I really enjoyed your discussion of lenses. Because that is where I am at the moment.

The 24-105 L IS USM go from $500 to $750 on eBay.

My next lens will be the EF-S 28-135 IS USM which can be had for $400.00. Still have only the supplied lens at the mo. 500D

I'm talking used prices here.

Edited March 23, 2011 by powderpuff

[ETatBKK]

your desired experience ( everyday use, holiday portraits, close up ) are in fact very close to your 450D on that straight line ! a new camera 'may' help you to achieve the quality easier - a newer image sensor, a better focusing system . . . nice to have thought :-) do some homework on the 450D again, you may able to acquire somewhat better quality too !

if the budget for a new camera is an emotional need, then the 600D may not give you too much 'wow' for long. 60D and 7D deliver all your technical needs, one just 'feel' better and weigh heavier than other :-)

look into your lens combination, your 3 zooms are in overlapping zone, yet good enough for almost all daily shooting. if your budget extends, you may consider a EF lens ( 16-35 f/2.8 L II USM or 24-70 f/2.8 L USM ) for the advantage of bigger aperature. they are serious glasses, you get a better control on depth of field ( background ) and better colour rendering, from close up application to general portrait.

thanks for the advice,,i use my 450d for just general photo;s i do like close up shots,and i thought the photo's i had taken were quite good,until i viewed photo;s my friend had taken on is 7d 18-135 lens,they just seemed more clear sharper and more colourful, so either i have not masterd my 450d as i thought,,

can i ask this question,to the professionals here,,, if some one asked you your advice on buying a new camera and lens for £1200 ish,,,what would you recomend

im talking for everyday use,holidays portraits close ups so on,

[astral]

thanks for the advice,,i use my 450d for just general photo;s i do like close up shots,and i thought the photo's i had taken were quite good,until i viewed photo;s my friend had taken on is 7d 18-135 lens,they just seemed more clear sharper and more colourful, so either i have not masterd my 450d as i thought,,

Will your friend let you borrow the 18-135 for a few days?

You may not need a new camera, perhaps a better lens may be the answer.....

Not definitive, but worth considering.

I know I am very happy with the 18-85mm that was bundled with my 40D.

On the "colourful" side.

Have you tried tweaking the jpg processing in the camera menu.

I know I was very unhappy with my 40D, out of the box,

but now it produces good results.

[powderpuff]

Did a little research in Pantip Plaza - 4th floor.

The miracle lens is out of stock & will be for another 30 days. Price 36,000 baht.

The EF-S 18-135 IS runs 9900 baht.

Edited March 26, 2011 by powderpuff

[drum]

ive decided to up-grade to a 7d,, after reading many reviews it seems tobe faultless,,plus i like the feel of it,,i know having a good camera wont make my pictures any better but im thinking i wont have to up-grade again once ive learned how to use it,,,,,,( has for buying one in Thai its no more costly than buying in the uk,,has for buying secound hand of ebay ive been there brought a faulty lens so never again)

a 7d is about £1100 in the UK, so again back to the lens issue,,,i like to take close up pictures of people i like to catch real face expressions ,,i photo relatives children just playing around and you need tobe quick to catch them,,

ive read reviews on the 24 105 ,as sugested,at a cost of £650,,would this be a good lens for my set up ? the lens now is big concern ,so any advice welcome,,

[drum]

canon announced there is a problem with the 24 105,when used with back lighting,wont effect me,,but maybe useful information if any one is thinking of buying one,, im thinking of a 50mm ef 1.4usm £360 ( i know some 50mm are costing over £1200 out of my budget)

[BangkokImages]

ive decided to up-grade to a 7d,, after reading many reviews it seems tobe faultless,,plus i like the feel of it,,i know having a good camera wont make my pictures any better but im thinking i wont have to up-grade again once ive learned how to use it,,,,,,( has for buying one in Thai its no more costly than buying in the uk,,has for buying secound hand of ebay ive been there brought a faulty lens so never again)

a 7d is about £1100 in the UK, so again back to the lens issue,,,i like to take close up pictures of people i like to catch real face expressions ,,i photo relatives children just playing around and you need tobe quick to catch them,,

ive read reviews on the 24 105 ,as sugested,at a cost of £650,,would this be a good lens for my set up ? the lens now is big concern ,so any advice welcome,,

The 24-105 would be ideal. It's a fine lens. And the back lighting issue is actually flare and only happens under certain circumstances and most will never notice it.

The 50 F1.4 is probably the best balance of all the 50mm's between image quality, aperture, and price.. so that's a good choice too.. though I doubt you'll use it much if you have the 24-105..

[Rastaputin]

I am a 7D user too, and must say that the most important feature for me is the excellent Autofocus, with 19 AF points and lots of ways to configure it to your needs. It takes some tinkering and training, but once you understand it the results speak for themselves.

This is a feature not available in 600, 60 or 5D MkII models. For dynamic moving motives, the latter are a big letdown.

One word about the 24-104 4.0 L lens: I had it, and sold it soon after.

While it is certainly a high quality lens, the range is just not that useful for a crop camera. It works like a 40-165 mm lens, nice to have the extra reach, but lacks wide angle completely.

Have a look at the Canon EF-S 17-55 2.8 IS, which is optically on par with the best L lenses, very fast, and has a much more useful range of 28-90 mm. Or, if you need more reach, and don't care for high aperture speed, the EF-S 15-85 is a solution with similar quality, giving you a range of about 24-135 mm if you count in the crop factor.

Both lenses should cost about the same as the 24-105 4.0.

[BangkokImages]

I am a 7D user too, and must say that the most important feature for me is the excellent Autofocus, with 19 AF points and lots of ways to configure it to your needs. It takes some tinkering and training, but once you understand it the results speak for themselves.

This is a feature not available in 600, 60 or 5D MkII models. For dynamic moving motives, the latter are a big letdown.

One word about the 24-104 4.0 L lens: I had it, and sold it soon after.

While it is certainly a high quality lens, the range is just not that useful for a crop camera. It works like a 40-165 mm lens, nice to have the extra reach, but lacks wide angle completely.

Have a look at the Canon EF-S 17-55 2.8 IS, which is optically on par with the best L lenses, very fast, and has a much more useful range of 28-90 mm. Or, if you need more reach, and don't care for high aperture speed, the EF-S 15-85 is a solution with similar quality, giving you a range of about 24-135 mm if you count in the crop factor.

Both lenses should cost about the same as the 24-105 4.0.

1. I'd agree with this, an important point I completely missed.

2. Not so much agree with this. It's a decent lens for sure, but not there optically against the 'best' L lenses. Yet, I'm sure the OP would love this particular lens.

This is one of the issues that prompts me to stay away from APC-S sensor bodies. The OP describes shooting people, close ups, etc.. which doesn't require the particular strengths of the 7d, but would benefit from the specific strengths of a full frame camera. But then there is the costs. I noticed recently that the 5d Mark II's were down to 68,000? And the 7d 48,000? Significant difference, but money well spent if it means a camera that fits your needs. JMHO..

[drum]

camera and lenses,dose the camera compliment the lens,or is it the lens that makes the camera, is there a table to help chose a lens that a novice will understand,

[Tywais]

camera and lenses,dose the camera compliment the lens,or is it the lens that makes the camera, is there a table to help chose a lens that a novice will understand,

How to pick a dSLR lens

dSLR lens selection

Of course review sites such as dpreview are good choices for specifics.

[BangkokImages]

camera and lenses,dose the camera compliment the lens,or is it the lens that makes the camera, is there a table to help chose a lens that a novice will understand,

Drum -

If only such a chart existed.. Canon makes a Lens Book.. it's actually a nice hardcover book (about $30) that has nice color pictures of all their lenses and descriptions of their optics and mechanics with some example images. And there's no shortage of people on forums who have made their own lists trying to pigeonhole lenses in certain slots. But I don't think any of these will be useful to you.

And the answer is neither. Camera bodies and camera lenses combine to make a photographic tool, each is necessary. With that said, older conventional wisdom used to hold that upgrading a lens is far more advantageous than upgrading a body. This mindset came about when you could expect the latest film body to last decades before any new technology produced a 'must have' new body. This is still 'mostly' true today, but there are exceptions. The technological 'shelf-life' of a digital body is significantly shorter. It's not that difficult anymore to have a digital body that's so far outdated, that it's replacement wouldn't make a significant and noticeable difference in your final product. So, in short the issue is even more cloudy than before.

Perhaps being forward is the way I can be most helpful at this point. I teach photography for a living. It's what I do. I encounter students/clients at levels ranging from "I've never touched a camera before" to "I'm a professional sports photographer and I'm having issues nailing the focus on.." Mostly though I get people who have 'dabbled' for a good part of their lives and probably know a lot more than they think they do. I help these people organize and apply what they already know, and during the process I fill in the pertinent blanks they don't know.

Based on this I'll offer the following observations:

a. Most of these people started at some point with film. "Digital" might not be new to them, but they've had no formal instruction in post-processing.

b. To get the 'most' or 'all' from a digital camera you need to know the specific traits of digital cameras, AND how to post process your images properly.

c. Most people I instruct are surprised and then delighted with what their current camera can achieve and how easily they can learn to make the most of it.

d. Once they see how much they can get from their current gear, and understand how to find the limits, they can't help but start looking to more capable gear.

I've already said somewhere in this thread a quality workshop will give you the opportunity to try different bodies and lenses and the knowledge to evaluate that which you're test driving. I'm not plugging my business as I've recently announced I'm returning to the states soon. I'll return twice a year to hold workshops, but I won't be back until December.. so you would need to look around where you live and see if you can find someone qualified. I think you'll find a quality workshop the best money you ever spent in photography. My final workshop was last week and it was with a young man from Belgium.. once the blanks were filled in for him on the knowledge front, he had a heck of a good time playing with the gear and seeing what each body and lens could do. Such a good time that we were up till after midnight so he could test drive as much as possible..

With all that said.. if you've already made up your mind on the 7d and you're not going to budge from that.. then the recommendation for the 17-55mm F2.8 IS is probably the best advice for a lens..

Good luck.

[drum]

thank you all for the advice, these canon lenses like the 17 55 the reviews rank them top quality with a price to match,, would it be wise to buy say tamron (ie 17 50) seems to do the same job but for a fraction of the cost,,? or would this compromise the quality I'm looking for,,

[BangkokImages]

thank you all for the advice, these canon lenses like the 17 55 the reviews rank them top quality with a price to match,, would it be wise to buy say tamron (ie 17 50) seems to do the same job but for a fraction of the cost,,? or would this compromise the quality I'm looking for,,

It is very rare when anything does the "same" job as something that's a fraction of the price.. but it does happen.

I can tell you that out of 30 lenses currently sitting in my equipment room.. 2 are Sigma's and all the rest are Canon's. One of the Sigma's covers a range (12-24mm) not covered by Canon, and the other covers a range/aperture (20mm F1.8) not covered by Canon. Both do a respectable job, but both are exceptions and I'm sure if Canon made these lenses they'd be a much better quality.

I think you'd be shooting yourself in the foot to go to the expense of the 7d and then cripple it with a Tamron lens.

I have this thought.. that maybe you'd be better served by something that's not a DSLR. Sometimes we go with what we know because it's comfortable and in the process skip over what 'may' be better options.

Read my latest piece called "Perfect Camera"and see if it rings any bells..