Farmers Sob Stories

[Lickey]

Ive been a bit disheartened recently , and allthough i always read the forum, i havent posted much atall, below, is the main reason.

5 years ago, i decided [after the house build] that i needed a hobby, as the mrs was busy in the new salon allday, so we went to the family farm, 40rai, it was totally run down, just a jungle, family had made there own way in life and all agreed to let us do what we wanted, so in came the tractor, [hired] cleaned the Tamarind orchards weeds and brush, the trees were pruned, i had the dryed up borehole extended, laid out a Papaya plantation, planted 1000 banana plants, 2 15 raised bed salad covered gardens, once all was in place, fitted irrigation to all sections, things seemed fine, i was making some good beer money on fruit sales ect, and it kept me busy, well, till the thai thing of a more is better mentality killed of the salad beds for 18months,, since then i banned chemicals on the farm, and with loads of help and backing, we got the organic forum started, saved a lot of money on chems, and i was well pleased,

Till just before last Xmas,that is, SiL came to the house and said, in 2 days time, i have tractor coming to clean my ground, so go take fruit tommorow, and she walked away, Mrs went after her, but she was adamant, she was going to do it, we picked the fruit the next day and people were there already cutting down the Tamarind trees, 2 days later and all the banana and papaya had been ploughed in, I bought a small bottle of Regency and a few bottles of Leo that night and got a bit drunk,, it was like loosing a loved one or very similar.

New year was the usual family gathering, [no sil] and we all went to the farm, now 2 brothers were convinced she had taken too much land, so bil [police captain] got the village boss and the land papers from the bank and had it all measured out, she had taken 4 rai too much,so until the new borders are sorted, i cant do much, BiL has said he will have a borehole done on his ground, put electricity on ect, i just use my pump and grow what we want, With which i can re-start my hobby farm on a lot smaller scale, but its gonna take time to re-kindle enthusiasm, once its definenitley sorted border wise, then ok.

I suppose ive lost about 120k in 4+ years, which would be about normal from start-up.

Anybody got any similar type stories, did you get over the problems or just give up,?

Cheers, Lickey.

[khunjepp]

Well, I feel for you.

personally, i'd get the papers sorted, find out what bit belongs to your wife, and save the effort for that area.

[swissie]

Feel for you too. As mentioned, sort out what your wife owns. Otherwise it's almost a "Classic".

a) Thai-Family has no use for land.

Farang comes along and makes something out of it.

c) Thai Family realises by now that land "has value".

= Result: If nothing secured in wifes name: Farang is "out", regardless what he invested in form of labour or money.

OP: YOU can probably not contribute much to resolve the situaton. But your WIFE can. A lot will depend on her negotiating skills and her ability to present the case to the "village-chief".

Luck to you, cheers.

[surayu]

Sorry to hear about your story, i am not surprised however by this, never trust locals on their promises, especially if there are no legal contracts.

Another point you might want to evaluate is, are you really sure you want to start anything next door to a person that just did that to you? don't you think she will try to do something at your disvantage any time you are not around?

Probably better to sell what your wife owns there and try your luck in another area and possibly have your residence there too, good luck on anything you will do

[IsaanAussie]

Hey guys, I think perhaps you have misread the OP's situation here. Of course you are all correct, had Lickey started his "market garden" as a primary source of income, then he would have been well advised to secure the title. But he didnt, it was a hobby on unused land, a bit of beer money.

I read the OP as being disappointed at the change of heart by the family members, but not devasted, and Lickeys tale is one of adapting to circumstances not of defeat.

I am sure there are other members who have had to adapt to situations were plans have veered off course through no fault of their own. I am equally sure that many Thais in the same situation would just walk away from such problems. In Lickeys case, it means his hobby is on hold, not his dreams for the future shattered.

I had a similar experience a few years ago. There is a 30 rai plot that had belonged to my wifes father had for years only been used to grow rice each year by my SIL, it was dirty and undeveloped. The father had been married twice and the children of his first marriage had shown no interest in the land for more than twenty years. Then my tractor arrived and slowly the land was improved. Next thing we are presented with a legal battle to carve up the block. At that point I backed off and stopped all involvement and surprisingly the contest stopped too.

Perhaps I'm wrong but in Lickeys case, I see the same reaction. Let the family sort out who owns what, then get back to using the land.

To me, this thread is a good opportunity for we Farang Farmers to discuss these sort of problems and ways of resolving them. Hindsight is fine but with respect, doesn't help once the horse has bolted.

Isaan Aussie

Edited March 29, 2011 by IsaanAussie

[Gary A]

We have two small ten rai farms. The first one we bought was a couple kilometers from our house but fairly isolated. I had a farm pond dug and eventually stocked it with pla nin. My wife found a couple of the most fertile spots and planted all sorts of things, peppers, watermelon, peanuts, ETC. When the fish had grown some and the vegetables started to mature the heartbreak came. The thieves came. How they managed to get every single fish out of the pond is a mystery. The bastards even dug up her peanuts. The entire farm than went to rice. The rice didn't do that well so after three years of rice, in came the tractor to take out the paddy dikes and we now have all sugar cane. The sugar cane has done fairly well but the market stinks. The middlemen have the farmers over a barrel. It cost 250 baht per ton to have the cane cut and transported. The middlemen are paying 850 baht per ton so the farmer is left with 600 baht per ton.

The second ten rai is on a bigger road and within a kilometer of the house. It already had a pond and most of the rest of the property is fruit trees. We stocked the pond and the fish are doing well. The pla duk are doing especially well. The pla nin grow much slower than the catfish. I enjoy feeding them every day. We had a small house built there and occasionally someone stays there over night. Even that close to home, thieves are whittling down the fish population. Naturally most of the fruit is stolen before we have a chance to pick any. Between thieves and corrupt middleman, there is very little joy in trying to make an honest baht from the land.

[slapout]

On a positive note, just be glad the thieves and the in laws have not joined forces. I have heard of this and that is a receipt instant loss of your arse and all the fixtures.

[Lickey]

Thanks for the messages folks, but please understand that things are under control, just as IA suggests, yes, i am sitting on the fence so to speak, [well, when the fence has stopped moving] , It was a real kick in the teeth to what happened, but now thats out of the way, i can plan for a smaller piece of land and perhaps cope better alone,

Mrs sold nearly all her land as her contribution for the new buisness/accomadation for us, about 30% of the builiding cost.and i dont really have any fears about doing something on the land next to the sil land, this land belongs to the police captain bil who will retire in about 6 years, till then we can do what we want on the land, knowing this, i wont be throwing a lot of cash at it, so i will have my hobby back as soon as the family sorts the land out,

IA pointed out a family issue, we have the same also, when mrs sold her land for building, she lent her debt ridden sis 80k, not 1 satang has been returned for over 3.5 years now, her rekoning was to clear her land, sell it, pay off her debts, but has since planted cassava on it??

I cant believe that IA,Gary, and myself are the only farmers to have had problems, if so, the rest of you are extremly lucky or not telling!!

Lickey.

[slapout]

Lickey' If I get started on the in laws, with the exception of the parents and one sister and her husband, my blood pressure hits the bell for winning the Kewpie doll.

They have petty will covered the full spectrum from mortgaging the old mans land and house with no intention of paying bank, to picking my experiment in musk melon while still green. Did I mention golf ball up to soft ball size.

[IsaanAussie]

In Laws, Bah Humbug, Out Laws more like.

I have told the sad story of the SIL's marriage breakdown, and mentioned the value to me of the former BIL's labours before so I wont labour that again.

I had thought all of that was behind me, but oh no, far from true. The BIL has left a trail of debt and those that sold him things are coming to collect. Fishing net, mattresses, you name it he had it on the "tick" and now it's tick, tick, BOOM time. Stupid me, had thought he was pretty careful with his money, whose money? I have had a stream of pickup truck guys loaded with "pay later" stuff pull up to collect from the "don't worry, my pet farang will pay if I dont have it". One guy travelled some 40 kms to collect 400 baht, not once but three times. He even brought the police with him on the last occasion. The boys in brown explained that it would be easier for me to just pay the 400. After all I was rich and this was such a small thing. I told them that I was too sad to pay, my money tree had just died. No way Jose. Bugger off! The BIB are nice guys actually and had attended the house during the SIL and BIL domestic violence periods, they knew the story.

Then you have the "bring the thugs" brigade. We have had a couple of those. Out with the camera pictures of car and people and they usually leave, ring the police and they go. I tell the persistant ones that I am going to the police to file a report and submit the pictures, just in case. To reinforce that message I have a few blank report forms in the drawer and they get the message when you flash one of those. We havent had them return, yet... If they do then I will have to pay up I suppose as much as that erks me.

Now I am a pretty soft touch, but not when the family spends my money without at least discussing it first. No wonder this country is full of locked cupboards and padlocks. They arent to stop burglars, they are to keep the thieving family out of your wallet. It is definitely a country where "Whats yours is mine and whats mine is my own!"

I am of the opinion that it is impossible to lend money to family here. Give it to them, well that's only natural and expected. You'll sleep better feeling generous and awake refreshed to yet another day when all you have to do, is go water the money trees. Saying no is about as unexpected as ever getting the money back. Is that what I do? Hell no, bugger off! I like surprises!

Isaan Aussie

[jamescollister]

This kind of stuff goes on not only where a Farang is involved. Wifes Aunt has to stay in BKK for medical reasons, Son moves up to take care of her rubber. Son never lifts a finger, hires a guy to do the work then takes off with all the money and never even paid the worker.

End of last year I nearly lost it, we have 12 Rai [ charnot] that the MIL gave us as a wedding present. It now is covered in rubber, up rocks the MILs brother allegedly claiming the lands was ment for him or so the wife told me. and he wants some money. Well I was not in one of my better moods that day and told the wife to tell him to come round and I would give him a few hundred Bahts worth of 9 mil slugs in his head.

Now after a week or so and the fear of a mad farang going on a killing spree had deminised the real story comes out. Seems that the Uncle never made a claim on the land, he had had a barny with another sister who he worked for on her rubber. She had told him to sling his hook and get out. Now poor old Uncle with 4 young kids and motor bike TV etc payments found himself on the street so to speak. Like any good Thai he turns to family and comes to see my MIL. She then asks FIL to help. FIL offers him 500 Baht bus fare to BKK so he can get a job. FIL does not get on with MILs family. Next step MIL speaks to my wife to see if we can help. Now my wife controls all the money and does as she sees fit, but knowing that I may take her giving money to Uncle less than favourably she comes up with a story to justify giving him money. Often what you are told is not what is really going on.

End of story, Uncle makes up with his sister and is back tapping her rubber. Uncle has not shown his face here in fear that the crazy farang shoots him. Jim

[Tod Daniels]

You guys (and gurls) might find this story of interest too.

Sadly these are far from isolated incidents!! I’m sure they happen more amongst thai/thai goings-on than foreigners living here realize.

I watched a fairly successful ‘small scale’, fish, pig and rice farm be totally destroyed by in-fighting amongst the siblings. Even though NOT one of them did a lick of work or contributed a single satang to it save the youngest son.

The youngest son, who never left home, looked after the house, his ailing parents, and did all the development of the land, front loaded all the cost, worked it all himself, etc. When the father was about to die the rest of the siblings descended on the place and literally tore it apart in the endeavor to get 'their fair share' of the land.

About the only good that came out of it was the guy who'd done all that work, after enduring two weeks of in-fighting about the land; waited until his brothers and sisters had went back to their 'real' jobs. Then he harvested the rice, knocked down the berm around the paddy, caught/sold the fish, drained the pond, partially filled it in, and sold off all the pigs. He even went so far as to knock down the small concrete block pig-house. I wish I coulda seen the look on their faces when they went back up to 'claim' their rightful piece of the proverbial pie!!

It was sad for me to see that happen, because you'd never meet a harder working, easier going thai guy than he is. He was up at dawn, working on this that and the other thing all day, fixing motocy’s, iron-buffalos, sleeping in the hut by the rice field or by the fish pond some nites. He was really one of the hardest working thais I've ever met in almost 6 years here.

Now, almost 3 years after the father died, I had a chance to pass the land the other day when I was going up country. It's STILL FALLOW! All overgrown with weeds and not a thing has been done to it! I'm sure once the siblings realized they might actually hafta do something which resembled work instead of claiming their share of an already successful thing, they lost ALL interest.

The only good outcome was the youngest guy was able to take what ever he made from his 'close-out' sale and buy his OWN small piece of land, to restart. I spoke to him; he's doing well and thinking of buying another piece of land.

I say GOOD ON HIM !!

So, it's just not foreigners who're involved with Thais that this happens to. Although with a “foreign money-tree” in the mix the financial things can get skewed a little (or a LOT)!

It would appear, laziness, short-sightedness and all out greed knows NO boundaries; no matter the color of your skin.

Edited March 31, 2011 by tod-daniels

[farmerjo]

How things change,i thought i was buying 23 rai only to turn out it was 16 rai,a 23 rai paper anyway all good brought from son off paper off father.

12 Months later son comes to me and says his father is sick and needs operation so he wants paper back so he can go to land office and split paper.

Get this he wanted to put 7 rai in fathers name and the 16 i brought in his name,after telling him to p off,he said he would declare paper lost,once again i told him to p off.

Anyway he sent police around and after me explaining to them this would be fraud but willing to buy out the remaing 7 rai at 20000/rai,i never heard anymore.

Will take me at least 7-8 years to get money back off that land and this drongo thought he could sell it and keep it.

[IsaanAussie]

It seems that we are cruising for a bruising regardless of what we do. In a thread on Thai farming mindsets, many of the things recently talked about here were also mentioned. Perhaps its cultural for most, perhaps its the relocation of the younger generation, but it seems constant that you find people who know what a days work is all about and those who just watch it happen. What has me tricked is the people who believe they are entitled to a fair share of the pie and the proceeds when they have contributed nothing towards it.

My wifes father was an old man when he died. He had for years just sat watching the world go past, his needs were simply and his life style cheap. For twenty years his eldest daughter and her husband had grown the rice and tended the animals without any assistance from the rest of the family. But the vultures descended the moment he died. So much for family spirit. So much for any consideration of the individual efforts of one couple. None of these people could agree on how to carve it up and all fell by the wayside with it came to anti up for the legal costs to sort it out. The land just sits, idle. If they did manage to agree they would all get about 1 rai each and it bets me how they can do anything with that from their cold water flats outside Bangkok.

But we are not immune either. I had a close friend here for many years who went home for Christmas and his yearly checkup only to discover he had pancreatic cancer and was dead within weeks. In Sydney on his death bed and heavily sedated he overheard his own adult children planning ways they could get control of all his assets here in Thailand. Assets that had been built up by himself and his Thai wife and nothing to do with them. They did not intend to include her at all.

Excuse the language, but the world has money grubbing bastards everywhere.

Isaan Aussie

[Lickey]

A falang came to our house last December, ive met him a couple of times over the last 2 years,, he asked mrs if she knew a tipper truck company, mrs uncle has a fleet of 8 tippers, he wanted to build up a rice paddy to build on, and he asked for a quote, mrs motivated uncle next day, he went to the site, measured it up, access, distance to cart soil, fuel ect, and added 500bht per truck on a wear and tear basis, done a written quote and gave it to falang, and guaranteeing he would stick to the quote, come hell or high water.

He came back 2 days later and said his gf knew somebody who could do it cheaper, mrs said ok, how about a drink for my uncle for his time ect, reply was, hes a buisness man, he should take a knock now and again!!!, i said that he had probaly lost near 3k bht that day cos he wasnt driving tipper truck, and it would be only fair to give him a drink, 3/4 leos or similar, and that if his new contractor put anything less than red clay backfill on an old rice paddy, it wouldnt last long,,and it hasnt, the recent small rain has taken down the sides of the raised area, it looks like pure dirt topsoil, no good atall.

Since this happened, he has lost his pick-up, the ground he bought, 200k from a joint bank account, poor sod, he was likeable enough, and has gone home vowing never to return, he couldnt see that his thai gf was on the make from him all the time, she has gone back to her thai BF..

Love really is blind!!

[jazzbo]

I have been involved with a Thai farming land melodrama but not as a spouse ... The aged Father died and because my TGF's Mother was not married to the Father, the younger brother of the Father did a bunch of tricks as he was in possession of the actual land deed -- eventually the land was split 2:1 in my TGF's favor but not after considerable lawyer's and other fees ... BTW the value of the land went up because they built an airport near the farm land: Swampy.

[IsaanAussie]

Newspapers sell because they contain bad news. Thai culture is much the same apparently.

Everything that you lend comes back broken. I have finally determined that the logic (there is a joke in that word around here!) must be something like this:

Never do anything to actually help. If money is involved wait until its in your hand before you let whatever it is go wrong. Then offer to do it all again as long as there is a further quid in it.

[slapout]

One of my favorite songs "Lemon tree" should be required listening for anyone who is contemplating farming, in any way, shape or form, including financial involvement, here as well as anywhere else.

I have heard the statement "thats not fair" so many times that I do not even respond with thew standard reply any more.Many of us went in to our life here with some idea of what to expect. We many have been lulled into a sense of well being for some time, before something jump up and bit us in the arse. If plans are made initially for this to happen and the avenue of escape/acceptance has been put in place, it can be overcome.

As we get old (I am already there), we will have stories, experiences to share, although most will be ignored as "that could not happen to me" denial seems prevalent.

[IsaanAussie]

One of my favorite songs "Lemon tree" should be required listening for anyone who is contemplating farming, in any way, shape or form, including financial involvement, here as well as anywhere else.

I have heard the statement "thats not fair" so many times that I do not even respond with thew standard reply any more.Many of us went in to our life here with some idea of what to expect. We many have been lulled into a sense of well being for some time, before something jump up and bit us in the arse. If plans are made initially for this to happen and the avenue of escape/acceptance has been put in place, it can be overcome.

As we get old (I am already there), we will have stories, experiences to share, although most will be ignored as "that could not happen to me" denial seems prevalent.

How absolutely appropriate Slapout, well said.

Puts me in mind of the old saying, When I was a young man there are certain things out there that I could just eat. Now at times, I wish to God that I had!

[Gary A]

A good farang friend of mine paid for 82 rai. He eventually decided that he wanted to sell out. The company he bought the land with is long since dissolved. He is at the mercy of the Thai whose name is on the land papers. I figured that could be a disaster. As it worked out, my friend had to split the land and half (the tillable half) went to his previous partner plus 1.6 million baht for the partner to build a new house. The partners house was on the half that my friend got.

The government surveyors came and did the split. It turned out that his original 82 rai was actually 56 rai. His Thai partner says there is nothing they can do about the land measurement. The property did NOT have a chanote. Since the split the sales deal my friend had going has fallen through, he is in serious trouble with no income. I don't know what is going to happen to the guy.

This is a long story. My friend had fish ponds, started a sewing factory and had many rai of various fruit trees. My friend never received a single baht from those investments. Now the fruit trees are gone and the 26 rai his partner has is now planted in sugar cane.

The moral of the story is to never spend more than you can afford to walk away from. If my wife were to throw me out tomorrow, I assure you I wouldn't miss any meals and would still have a roof over my head. The loss of my wife would hurt much more than the financial loss.

[bina]

farming stories. not sure how it is in the states but here is similar to thailand. here, the land , while not exactly deeded, is rented from the govt' for 99 years. so the land is 'owned' by the farmer, as long as he farms it. and builds on the part that is allowed to be built upon.

the law here says that the first born (and male, tacitly, though not explicitly, stated) gets a percent parcelled out of the lot, even when family is still alive. it is called 'right of the descendant first born'to a piece of the land. (this law must date back to biblical times). and in arab villages it works similarly. no one else can use that parcel, sell it, or claim it. but the family can persuade the 'owner' to sell/rent/farm/mortgage out... and since many of these families have 5-9 siblings, u can imagine what happens among the family members. there are parcels laying farrow for same reasons. and farms of peppers/chickens whatever that are running at a loss if at all because of the greed of the siblings. there are lawyers here that specialize in dealing with 'first born parcels (a kind of inheritance law)and all the in fighting/loans/liens/that are connected to it.so not just a thai thing.

i feel that my husband has decided to stay here with me (as opposed to our original plan to move at some point to thailand, to his piece of land that has as yet got its chanote after 1.5 years. ) his oldest (under him( sister is the farmer. drunk abusive husband, but they succeed in their farming. other two sisters are nice, both their husbands work, and one sister works on and off and one looks after collective kids. but they wont farm. hubby has expressed his refusal to go back to farm because, he says, they 'will suck him dry' wihtout working.

bina

israel

[ttthailand]

I am not really a farmer but have tried unsuccessfully a few times to grow some plants. 5 rai of tomato and on the same 5 rai cucumbers. In both cases the little amount of produce I got was taken by the family. I think I once received 400 baht once...The problem was with the land. It was dead for sure...I then went and invested about 8k baht into the land to help the soil. It took 6 months but in the end it looked really good and it was ready to plant. I had it again plowed and was waiting for the rain to start to plant. A few days later the wife and I went to take a look. I could not believe what we saw. The brother ( a pain in the ass) planted his crap crop on the entire 5 rai.... My wife and her mother was in the truck at the time and were not aware what he did and was as surprised as I was. Well....I lost it... took my 4WD truck and did donuts on the entire 5 rai. The mother was flipping out. She thought I went totally nuts. I then told the wife to sell the 5 Rai tomorrow with the current crop as part of the deal, brother to get nothing. I didn't care if I took a loss. Well we sold and made a good profit and brother got nothing. That was a few years ago and he just started talking to me again recently. Loved it and would do the exact same thing again. The family knows that they don't screw with me as I will not put up it for one minute. I am good to them and treat them with respect. I overlook the small things. The brother knew that I was going to plant ( for sure) and just planted knowing there would be trouble but thinking he would win in the end...he lost and I won..well maybe ????

My wife tells this same story differently but my version is closer to the truth. I laugh about it now but at the time it was not funny. Never stand for any disrespect on any level or you loose control. They will walk all over you for sure.

[RedBullHorn]

14 years ago, orphaned wife told me the SPK title land of her granny was a total of 17 rai, 2 rai each for 2 uncles and an aunt, the remaining 11 rai is shared between her and the younger brother because both grandparent live in the house i build and is considered our responsibility. BiL said to me he is not interested in his share of the claim for maybe the next 20 or so years, "do what you want to your advantage..." he said, so BiL is out of the picture.

Grandpa passed a few years later and grandma was sick...very sick ! Here it's comes~ The youngest UiL had plans up his arse...saying that as a son he has the priority right to decide what share the "nephew and Niece" whom have no right to claim in the eye of the law should get.

I totally saw this coming the moment her grandma was bed ridden and told the wife to secure whatever land title papers that had our involvement in it. My wife even caught the UiL going thought the drawers and cabinet in search of them papers. If he got hold of them he could turn my farm on the plot and everything i've worked for ALONE would becomes his...nice try smart ass, but i'm wittier~

Next we report this to the village chief, also an uncle, called on the UiL to the table and he contested the share and insisted that the sons level should get the right to decide than the grandchildren level, so village chief make arrangement and land authorities came and interview the UiL, the wife and consulted with village chief.

While waiting on the result from authority official, UiL made another ass move...criticizing that my wife was incompetence in looking after his mother, created a big scene and loaded her grandma to the back of his pickup truck and drove off to his house...Now that was heart breaking for my wife who had looked after her for 6 bed ridden years.

Village chief certainly affected the favor vote for us getting our rightful share as he had secretly alert the official in charge of the split, from SPK to SK1...UiL was very confident that he'd win our 11 rai share...

He Lost !!!

...and grandma was sent back to our house immediately !...UiL's excuse was mother said she wanted to go home~~~

The whole drama was played in front of a crowd of criticizing villagers who were whispering ear to ear.... Chaiyo !

(SPK was split to 2 SK1, 1 for us 11 rai and another for 6 rai of the all the UiLs and aunt)

Edited April 3, 2011 by RedBullHorn

[jamescollister]

I am not really a farmer but have tried unsuccessfully a few times to grow some plants. 5 rai of tomato and on the same 5 rai cucumbers. In both cases the little amount of produce I got was taken by the family. I think I once received 400 baht once...The problem was with the land. It was dead for sure...I then went and invested about 8k baht into the land to help the soil. It took 6 months but in the end it looked really good and it was ready to plant. I had it again plowed and was waiting for the rain to start to plant. A few days later the wife and I went to take a look. I could not believe what we saw. The brother ( a pain in the ass) planted his crap crop on the entire 5 rai.... My wife and her mother was in the truck at the time and were not aware what he did and was as surprised as I was. Well....I lost it... took my 4WD truck and did donuts on the entire 5 rai. The mother was flipping out. She thought I went totally nuts. I then told the wife to sell the 5 Rai tomorrow with the current crop as part of the deal, brother to get nothing. I didn't care if I took a loss. Well we sold and made a good profit and brother got nothing. That was a few years ago and he just started talking to me again recently. Loved it and would do the exact same thing again. The family knows that they don't screw with me as I will not put up it for one minute. I am good to them and treat them with respect. I overlook the small things. The brother knew that I was going to plant ( for sure) and just planted knowing there would be trouble but thinking he would win in the end...he lost and I won..well maybe ????

My wife tells this same story differently but my version is closer to the truth. I laugh about it now but at the time it was not funny. Never stand for any disrespect on any level or you loose control. They will walk all over you for sure.

Too right, if you let someone get away with ripping you off, you will be seen as a solf touch. Then you will have big problems ahead. Best advice when you start over here, tell the family that where you come from you eat babies for breakfast and the last time you were crossed, you cut out his heart with a blunt butter knife and had it with onions for dinner. Set down the rules and stick to them and life will be much easier.

Have to say that it being the end of the dry season, no rubber and no money. It is us doing the borrowing, from the family. What goes around comes around. Jim

[JurgenG]

When I 'joined" this family I was not welcomed. When I tried to run the small piece of land we have in Isaan, very soon everybody was hating me. I'm a no nonsense kind of guy, my way or the highway (and I have to say, half of the time I'm the one taking the highway, but it doesn't matter ....).

I'd no financial incentive to run the Isaan land so when I saw the trouble I was running into, even my gf was turning on me, I thought, what the hell and I gave up. What happen ? People are disappointed. They loved to hate me but it seems they loved even more the results I was having.

Lately I heard from an aunt that the family who used to hate me now thinks I'm much better than my other in-laws. Instead of spending the family wealth, we (my gf and I) try to do something on our own.

A couple of times, I fought with my gf against her other siblings, and, again, it was my way or the highway. She hated me for that but at the end I was proved right.

Today it's still a mixed record but I've a feeling it's going the right way. Of course many times my life would have been much easier if I had turn a blind eye to what was going on. But my parents, both my father and my mother in their own way, didn't raise me this way.

People in Thailand are no different from people elsewhere, they respect you for what you are.

[IsaanAussie]

The last two posts bring up an interesting point, that is to be consistent.

From my own experience I know I would do things differently if I had the chance to start over. It is hard to see the reality of merit making and Big Face at the get go, well it was for me. I thought it was the same as generousity or charity, stupid me. By the time I had learnt that it was just a fit up and tried to adjust, I had already been branded as an easy mark and hence was instantly relabelled as having turned black hearted and sticky.

For a newbie reading this for advice, heres mine. Take it slowly and do exactly as you would at home. As JG pointed out, just like your parents taught you. Worthy causes will be explained as will the need for someone to make merit with you footing the bill. The freeloaders will get the flick by others around you, you do not need to get involved. Perhaps think of it as single entry accounting, there is rarely the need for a reciprocal entry on the ledger here. One good turn does not deserve another. The one exception is the pile of ledgers that every Thai keeps to balance the gifts at funerals, weddings etc... not bad for a race of people who can't add up!

If in doubt the best weapons are silence and a smile. If you can master those, come give me a lesson!

Isaan Aussie.

[transam]

I myself have heard loads of stories (rip off's) that l could not believe but there have been so many l expect anything if land/money is involved.

OP, wish you luck and a happy ending. T/A

[ozzydom]

Hi Lickey ,old mate,sorry to hear of your trials and tribulations, I only arrived back late last week, I guess the silver lining may be that you will have more time for OTHER pursuits.

Still have a bit to do in Cambodia but probs here at the farm required my attention,so am back for a month or so.

Family decided to do a bit of burning off last week so they lit a fire and promptly decided they were hungry and went to lunch, Yep, the fire took off and burnt heaps of pipe and hoses plus the goose and duck sheds (luckily the birds flew out into the ponds)then they decided to use the big pump to douse things down but as atypical forgot that internal combustion engines need lubricating oil so she seized and threw a rod out the block.Ah well ,life wasnt meant to be easy.

Hope to catch up later in the year.

[Lickey]

Thankyou TA, ive been very wary for a few years now, i dont really have a lot of money to throw about, so tread carefully and think things through is my motto..

Dom, good to hear from you mate, pity it wasnt in a better light, have you found the responsible family members yet, or you still wandering about with a scatter gun?

Yes what you say is true, i can concentrate more on a smaller piece of land now for a few years, it will suit me better, BUT i would have liked to know the family plans at the onset, and plan acordingly, and as we all know [and at a great expense to you Dom] thais cant plan beyond the next meal,

Cheers Lickey..

[ozzydom]

I think that many of us would, with hindsight stay well clear of land deals and farming in Thailand if we had our time over.

Our (TW,s)small holding was part of 30 rai river frontage paddy owned by the family matriarch (TW,s mother) and each of the five siblings just utilised a smallish part to plant one crop of sticky rice per year.

The deal was that the land would be split equally upon the demise of MiL, however when I happened along a few years ago I was hit up to buy the title out of mortgage after it was used by a neice who failed to pay any principal or interest for several years.

I was not really interested so called a family get together, where I suggested that each sibling beg borrow or steal 60K to pay the debt on provision the land was sub-divided immediately.

This idea was rejected (bloody tightwads)so I suggested plan B,this was that I would pay the debt as long as subdivision took place forthwith and that each sibling contributed land from their share to make up 3 rai extra for TW, (3 rai @100k per rai.

This effectively meant that TW got 9 rai and her siblings a bit over 5 rai each , this was agreed and each sibling chose the piece they wanted and TW got what was left, (which of course was the worst section, of course the siblings had a good laugh about how they had out-smarted the stupid farang until they learnt that we had always planned to make major changes in turning it into a fish farm.

I used the same diligence in the dealings that I would in Oz so legally it was watertight ,but I did not count on the angst that can be found in a dysfunctional Thai family.

We put up with full on war for a few years,fences cut and cattle let into ponds ,poaching ,ponds poisoned,equipment and poultry stolen etc etc,but a couple of split skulls and a couple of short stays in the local lockup(plus having to pay restitution and they have learnt that this farang ,nice a bloke as I am ,is not to be messed with.

Many times I have suggested to TW that she sell up and we go live out our latter years in a more friendly environment,but she is as pig headed as the rest of her family and reckons that would be a win for them.