Work Permit For Online Working

[ChiangMaiFun]

I meet many folk who say they 'work' here but online - and so do not need a work permit - as payment is from overseas etc.

but I have doubts about this... any views?

[7by7]

On the assumption that 'here' is Thailand, I am moving this to Thai visas, work permits etc.

If 'here' is not Thailand, then say where it is and I'll move this back to Visas for other countries.

[PoorSucker]

All work by a foreign national in Thailand requires WP.

On-line or not.

Paid or volunteer work.

All needs a WP.

[Soutpeel]

Technically you need a work permit...where the payment comes from or even if you get paid is irrelevant under the labour law.

Do some research on TV...lot of debates on this exact subject

[jazzbo]

All of the above is accurate.

So is the WWII admonition: Loose Lips Sink Ships

[Jingthing]

Yes it's illegal but that doesn't mean it's really practical in most cases to make it legal. Sadly the laws here like most countries haven't kept up with globalization technology.

[ChiangMaiFun]

On the assumption that 'here' is Thailand, I am moving this to Thai visas, work permits etc.

If 'here' is not Thailand, then say where it is and I'll move this back to Visas for other countries.

whoops sorry - yes please move it

[camo007]

Interesting is what is considered "Working"

Many I know have Wages and OS Jobs that allow them to work remote. (IBM Staff and many others such as software developers)

If your salary is paid into an OS bank account and you just take money out of an ATM here in Bangkok whats the point?

No need for company and work permit in Thailand based on the fact that you are already paying 37%+ tax in another country.

If you are working on your PC from your home with an IP phone and nothing else (No office and no local business or trading at all) I fail to see the need for work permit. Asking my landlord who is an Immigration officer she also felt that a work permit is not required as we have no operations and or money etc in Thailand. Thin line I know..

So I gave up and have setup a BOI approved company in Thailand with work permit just to be sure as I would not want to fight. My Thai lawyer still thinks I am wasting my money....

[maswov]

All work by a foreign national in Thailand requires WP.

On-line or not.

Paid or volunteer work.

All needs a WP.

Most need a WP.

I work with FPV in Pattaya and was concerned about not being able to get a work permit since I am on ED visa. I do not fully understand why they made the exception but I believe it has something to do with the cost involved that we are working for the ones who would enforce it anyway.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Interesting is what is considered "Working"

Many I know have Wages and OS Jobs that allow them to work remote. (IBM Staff and many others such as software developers)

If your salary is paid into an OS bank account and you just take money out of an ATM here in Bangkok whats the point?

No need for company and work permit in Thailand based on the fact that you are already paying 37%+ tax in another country.

If you are working on your PC from your home with an IP phone and nothing else (No office and no local business or trading at all) I fail to see the need for work permit. Asking my landlord who is an Immigration officer she also felt that a work permit is not required as we have no operations and or money etc in Thailand. Thin line I know..

So I gave up and have setup a BOI approved company in Thailand with work permit just to be sure as I would not want to fight. My Thai lawyer still thinks I am wasting my money....

my understanding is... because you could potentially take jobs from Thai's and mostly that Thailand has loose laws but when it does enforce them it goes 100% overboard! in Chiang Mai 4 guys were arrested 3 weeks ago for playing guitar (for free) at a pub - no wages, just jamming - all were arrested and in jail.

[sausageandmash]

The problem is, any company needs to be registered in Thailand, which requires 2,000,000 Baht in tied-up capitol and of course 4 Thai staff per 1 work permit. So there really is no point for someone who is working online. My main job is music. I definately have a work permit for that, as playing in bars and hotels without one would be stupid. However, I sometimes top-up my income by teaching a couple of private students in their homes. There is no way I could get a work permit for 2 professions and again, no point, as immigration are hardly likely to follow you to people's homes.

All work by a foreign national in Thailand requires WP.

On-line or not.

Paid or volunteer work.

All needs a WP.

[sausageandmash]

4 guys were arrested for playing guitar. Did they take it in turns or was it an orchestra. 4 guitars on stage???

Interesting is what is considered "Working"

Many I know have Wages and OS Jobs that allow them to work remote. (IBM Staff and many others such as software developers)

If your salary is paid into an OS bank account and you just take money out of an ATM here in Bangkok whats the point?

No need for company and work permit in Thailand based on the fact that you are already paying 37%+ tax in another country.

If you are working on your PC from your home with an IP phone and nothing else (No office and no local business or trading at all) I fail to see the need for work permit. Asking my landlord who is an Immigration officer she also felt that a work permit is not required as we have no operations and or money etc in Thailand. Thin line I know..

So I gave up and have setup a BOI approved company in Thailand with work permit just to be sure as I would not want to fight. My Thai lawyer still thinks I am wasting my money....

my understanding is... because you could potentially take jobs from Thai's and mostly that Thailand has loose laws but when it does enforce them it goes 100% overboard! in Chiang Mai 4 guys were arrested 3 weeks ago for playing guitar (for free) at a pub - no wages, just jamming - all were arrested and in jail.

[ChiangMaiFun]

The problem is, any company needs to be registered in Thailand, which requires 2,000,000 Baht in tied-up capitol and of course 4 Thai staff per 1 work permit. So there really is no point for someone who is working online. My main job is music. I definately have a work permit for that, as playing in bars and hotels without one would be stupid. However, I sometimes top-up my income by teaching a couple of private students in their homes. There is no way I could get a work permit for 2 professions and again, no point, as immigration are hardly likely to follow you to people's homes.

All work by a foreign national in Thailand requires WP.

On-line or not.

Paid or volunteer work.

All needs a WP.

you would be surprised - I met a guy only this week who was teaching poor and disadvantaged kids in his moobaan (for free) and the Police came and knocked at his door one night - NO working free or otherwise - its ridiculous but it happens - God forbid but if you get caught you are likely out - it only requires a jealous 'somebody' to phone Immigration. I believe you are taking a huge risk - good luck though!

[ChiangMaiFun]

4 guys were arrested for playing guitar. Did they take it in turns or was it an orchestra. 4 guitars on stage???

Interesting is what is considered "Working"

Many I know have Wages and OS Jobs that allow them to work remote. (IBM Staff and many others such as software developers)

If your salary is paid into an OS bank account and you just take money out of an ATM here in Bangkok whats the point?

No need for company and work permit in Thailand based on the fact that you are already paying 37%+ tax in another country.

If you are working on your PC from your home with an IP phone and nothing else (No office and no local business or trading at all) I fail to see the need for work permit. Asking my landlord who is an Immigration officer she also felt that a work permit is not required as we have no operations and or money etc in Thailand. Thin line I know..

So I gave up and have setup a BOI approved company in Thailand with work permit just to be sure as I would not want to fight. My Thai lawyer still thinks I am wasting my money....

my understanding is... because you could potentially take jobs from Thai's and mostly that Thailand has loose laws but when it does enforce them it goes 100% overboard! in Chiang Mai 4 guys were arrested 3 weeks ago for playing guitar (for free) at a pub - no wages, just jamming - all were arrested and in jail.

the thread is in the Chiang Mai forum - I guess they were 'observed' playing - someone must have reported them - it's just not worth the risk

[Mario2008]

All work by a foreign national in Thailand requires WP.

On-line or not.

Paid or volunteer work.

All needs a WP.

Most need a WP.

I work with FPV in Pattaya and was concerned about not being able to get a work permit since I am on ED visa. I do not fully understand why they made the exception but I believe it has something to do with the cost involved that we are working for the ones who would enforce it anyway.

There is no exception or police volunteers. As you say, they will not be checked. But in a dispute with someone one can make the point that you are working illegally.

[TimeBandit2]

The "system" here is incredibly hostile to any Non-Thai who does anything except eat, sleep, screw and spend money. The insipid "you're a guest here" notion permeates the society and is quite common among expats as well who have had their minds infected by local primitive notions of territoriality and hostility to human rights.

Bear in mind that your Immigration Officer landlady does not work for the Ministry of Labor, and they issue Work Permits, not Immigration.

If your friends were caught then they could be charged with working illegally. They would probably have to be directly reported for this to happen since the police aren't generally interested doing much investigating here.

[jazzbo]

This from the Ministry of Labour website:

1. Definition

“Alien” means a natural person who is not of Thai nationality; “ Work ” means to engage in work by

exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits.

So as long as you are not exerting energy or using knowledge you are OK.

[sausageandmash]

Hardly taking any risk at all. It's one-on-one and away from where I live. This guy that got nicked probably advertised the fact "summer camp" style and attracted publicity. Cops bursting into someone's home, running upstairs, would just see a Thai talking to a foreigner with no books around. Cant get arrested for that. They've got much bigger things to worry about for God's sake. You have as much chance of being struck by lightening in the next 2 seconds.

The problem is, any company needs to be registered in Thailand, which requires 2,000,000 Baht in tied-up capitol and of course 4 Thai staff per 1 work permit. So there really is no point for someone who is working online. My main job is music. I definately have a work permit for that, as playing in bars and hotels without one would be stupid. However, I sometimes top-up my income by teaching a couple of private students in their homes. There is no way I could get a work permit for 2 professions and again, no point, as immigration are hardly likely to follow you to people's homes.

All work by a foreign national in Thailand requires WP.

On-line or not.

Paid or volunteer work.

All needs a WP.

you would be surprised - I met a guy only this week who was teaching poor and disadvantaged kids in his moobaan (for free) and the Police came and knocked at his door one night - NO working free or otherwise - its ridiculous but it happens - God forbid but if you get caught you are likely out - it only requires a jealous 'somebody' to phone Immigration. I believe you are taking a huge risk - good luck though!

[ChiangMaiFun]

This from the Ministry of Labour website:

1. Definition

"Alien" means a natural person who is not of Thai nationality; " Work " means to engage in work by

exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits.

So as long as you are not exerting energy or using knowledge you are OK.

haha so Thai politicians should be ok

[sausageandmash]

That's not my point. No-one has FOUR guitars in a band, even Iron Maiden have 3, and that's excessive. Sounds like an overblown version of the truth.

4 guys were arrested for playing guitar. Did they take it in turns or was it an orchestra. 4 guitars on stage???

Interesting is what is considered "Working"

Many I know have Wages and OS Jobs that allow them to work remote. (IBM Staff and many others such as software developers)

If your salary is paid into an OS bank account and you just take money out of an ATM here in Bangkok whats the point?

No need for company and work permit in Thailand based on the fact that you are already paying 37%+ tax in another country.

If you are working on your PC from your home with an IP phone and nothing else (No office and no local business or trading at all) I fail to see the need for work permit. Asking my landlord who is an Immigration officer she also felt that a work permit is not required as we have no operations and or money etc in Thailand. Thin line I know..

So I gave up and have setup a BOI approved company in Thailand with work permit just to be sure as I would not want to fight. My Thai lawyer still thinks I am wasting my money....

my understanding is... because you could potentially take jobs from Thai's and mostly that Thailand has loose laws but when it does enforce them it goes 100% overboard! in Chiang Mai 4 guys were arrested 3 weeks ago for playing guitar (for free) at a pub - no wages, just jamming - all were arrested and in jail.

the thread is in the Chiang Mai forum - I guess they were 'observed' playing - someone must have reported them - it's just not worth the risk

[ChiangMaiFun]

Hardly taking any risk at all. It's one-on-one and away from where I live. This guy that got nicked probably advertised the fact "summer camp" style and attracted publicity. Cops bursting into someone's home, running upstairs, would just see a Thai talking to a foreigner with no books around. Cant get arrested for that. They've got much bigger things to worry about for God's sake. You have as much chance of being struck by lightening in the next 2 seconds.

The problem is, any company needs to be registered in Thailand, which requires 2,000,000 Baht in tied-up capitol and of course 4 Thai staff per 1 work permit. So there really is no point for someone who is working online. My main job is music. I definately have a work permit for that, as playing in bars and hotels without one would be stupid. However, I sometimes top-up my income by teaching a couple of private students in their homes. There is no way I could get a work permit for 2 professions and again, no point, as immigration are hardly likely to follow you to people's homes.

All work by a foreign national in Thailand requires WP.

On-line or not.

Paid or volunteer work.

All needs a WP.

you would be surprised - I met a guy only this week who was teaching poor and disadvantaged kids in his moobaan (for free) and the Police came and knocked at his door one night - NO working free or otherwise - its ridiculous but it happens - God forbid but if you get caught you are likely out - it only requires a jealous 'somebody' to phone Immigration. I believe you are taking a huge risk - good luck though!

not at all - he was very discrete and was probably reported - you go ahead but don't come back complaining if you get caught! and you CAN get arrested if you are teachings kids and are reported - a foolish risk in my view

[ChiangMaiFun]

That's not my point. No-one has FOUR guitars in a band, even Iron Maiden have 3, and that's excessive. Sounds like an overblown version of the truth.

please don't be pedantic - they were caught jamming in a pub ok? ALL were arrested - go read the thread

[ChiangMaiFun]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/454199-musicians-arrested/

[sausageandmash]

Sorry sir, I was only joking. Won't happen again. The reason Immigration arrest even volunteer musos is that they could be being paid by the landlord, who could just tell the cops that they're doing it for nothing. So glad I got my WP for playing drums. On the downside, musos only get a WP for 6 months at a time and only 4 month visas, on the upside I am allowed to work anywhere as long as the venue informs the Labour dept first.

That's not my point. No-one has FOUR guitars in a band, even Iron Maiden have 3, and that's excessive. Sounds like an overblown version of the truth.

please don't be pedantic - they were caught jamming in a pub ok? ALL were arrested - go read the thread

[ChiangMaiFun]

Sorry sir, I was only joking. Won't happen again. The reason Immigration arrest even volunteer musos is that they could be being paid by the landlord, who could just tell the cops that they're doing it for nothing. So glad I got my WP for playing drums. On the downside, musos only get a WP for 6 months at a time and only 4 month visas, on the upside I am allowed to work anywhere as long as the venue informs the Labour dept first.

That's not my point. No-one has FOUR guitars in a band, even Iron Maiden have 3, and that's excessive. Sounds like an overblown version of the truth.

please don't be pedantic - they were caught jamming in a pub ok? ALL were arrested - go read the thread

write 100 times... 'I am a naughty, naughty boy and need my WP'

[lopburi3]

On the downside, musos only get a WP for 6 months at a time and only 4 month visas,

Please expand on "4 month visas". I am not aware of any such visa.

[sausageandmash]

The labour dept will only issue 4 month visas for musicians. This is because the majority of foreign musicians only come to Thailand on 3 month contracts.

On the downside, musos only get a WP for 6 months at a time and only 4 month visas,

Please expand on "4 month visas". I am not aware of any such visa.

[Lite Beer]

The labour dept do not issue Visas. Thai Consulates do..

[sausageandmash]

Haha. Sure thing. As long as I receive six of the best from an attractive female immigration official (do they exist?)

Sorry sir, I was only joking. Won't happen again. The reason Immigration arrest even volunteer musos is that they could be being paid by the landlord, who could just tell the cops that they're doing it for nothing. So glad I got my WP for playing drums. On the downside, musos only get a WP for 6 months at a time and only 4 month visas, on the upside I am allowed to work anywhere as long as the venue informs the Labour dept first.

That's not my point. No-one has FOUR guitars in a band, even Iron Maiden have 3, and that's excessive. Sounds like an overblown version of the truth.

please don't be pedantic - they were caught jamming in a pub ok? ALL were arrested - go read the thread

write 100 times... 'I am a naughty, naughty boy and need my WP'

[sausageandmash]

Sorry, that's what I meant.

The labour dept do not issue Visas. Thai Consulates do..