My Family Really Needs A Car And Cannot Afford Being Screwed.

[cardinalblue]

Original poster....One approach is just lower your standards and expectations and things seem to work out okay. I'm sure more relaxed than when I compared things or expected things to be similar to back home. They are not going to be... BUT you can still get good value for whatever baht you shell out so view every transaction from a value perspective instead of a comarative and things have become more realistic for me here...and thus more positive/satisfied

Lis 41, I don't want to deviate from this thread but would you expand on two items. You mention softball? a league? co-ed. men's a weekend affair,fast-pitch vs slow pitch,etc?

and Bamboo Bar...where specifically in Sansai is it? I keep hearing about this venue...

Thanks,

CB

[Lizard2010]

> Car is an unnecessary luxury in CNX.

> I used to get to the airport for the 10 THB yellow fare from ChiangMai Gate, then I would walk the half a mile to the Airport.

Consider that many people don't actually WANT to live downtown, and/or in a tiny apartment or condo. Some people move on from their student days.

You must be fit if i did that i would be exhausted.

Trying to loose weight, what am i doing wrong.:jap:

[Thighlander]

then just pay red taxi the extra 20 to take you to the gate.

[Cnxforever]

Thanks everyone for responding so fast. These forums are pretty cool! I just wanted to clear up the whole "Gas Man" issue for Gonzo. I did not really tell him he was full of crap. I just enlightened him to the fact that I was savvy to the approximate going rate. I still think I paid 100 more than I should have. Boa pin yang. I do go about my day in the "Learning" and not "Teaching" mentality, but afetr 4 months the things I have learned have changed me in ways I never expected. I really feel strange in some sort of way and I have no idea how to get past it at this point. I am naturally a real happy guy, but the things I have seen and learned, ...well I cannot say I didn't expect it all, but so soon? I really want to give it a real go and plan to be here for the long, long haul, but I feel like something is missing. Say ...friends that I can trust and hangout with without worring about getting popped. There is nothing worth my interest back in the states, and all the farlang friends here that I have made seem to be the sort that could land me in jail. I am simply exhausted and do not know were to begain again. Now I am ranting. Look at me go! Anyway, these are my problems not yours. Thanks for all the advice and I will get a private mechanic to look at all the cars I am considering and start from there. I am sure if I walk into any decent shop and give a mechanic 500B he would be more than happy to help me out. You would think! TIT.

Cheers,

Thankful

P.S. Are there any real nice expat type of pubs that have cool people and not so many backpackers here for the fleeting jollies? I just want to find a place with quality food, fair prices, and great people. Some place to call home, if you will.

See here you are thinking "back home again!"

TIT - If you give a Thai mechanic you don't know well 500 Baht to check out a car for you - he will (behind your back of course) work out a deal with the seller to get a nice fat commission if he recommends a certain car to you! So he will take your 500 and will get a nice sum from the dealer selling you the car - at least HE will be happy after the deal is done!

Be also very careful that the car you are wanting buy is not financed (most second hand cars are) and if - that the finance company is really paid when you make your payment!

[WarpSpeed]

A rookie mistake is A) not living near the main road(s) or living too far from town. Car is an unnecessary luxury in CNX. A good Apartment in town will be less than your car payment. Some of the Songtaews run all night--I think white does to San Kampaeng. I used to get to the airport for the 10 THB yellow fare from ChiangMai Gate, then I would walk the half a mile to the Airport. Save the SUVs for the missionaries, they need them for their fat kids. So many ways to get around. I like the green VIP bus to Chiang Rai. I can remember the days of the Old South in the US. Black families would buy Cadillacs and park them in front of shanty houses that were almost worthless. They were restricted from buying homes in the white neighborhoods, but were allowed to buy the white man's cars. In the long run--houses go up in value, cars go down. You could get a Townhouse in a walkable area for less than a car. It will pay you a nice dividend on the first of every month, and any improvements made will be yours to enjoy. I use a program called www.walkscore.com to find walkable real estate. A little more complicated in Thailand, since people drive like it's Death Race 2000. Pedestrian bridges are a real plus.

All fine and good but convenience and security are funnily enough overlooked in your diatribe.

[Berkshire]

Maybe you should wait until you have 1 million baht, and buy a new vehicle, at the same price as everyone else pays, and not screwed.. Until then, cruise on a bike as the vast majority of Farangs do.

I hope you succeed with all of your personal issues soon. You can't survive here very well, otherwise

Really have to agree with this. A new, say, even a Honda Civic, is a much better value than a used BMW/Mercedes. Buying a used car in Thailand is just like anywhere else--you have no idea the history of that vehicle. And being a newbie know-it-all with zero Thai language skills probably has the used car dealer foaming at the mouth.

By the way, I don't understand why some farangs would come to Thailand and feel the need to own a top end Euro vehicle, but don't/can't cough up the cash to buy a new one, so end up buying a used one. Is it a status thing? I had a friend from Canada who bought a used Volvo and the thing was a piece of crap. He finally got himself a new Japanese vehicle and could kick himself for wasting time with the used Volvo.

As for this comment from the OP...."This forum seems to be the only thing I can trust at this point and I really need the help." I about choked on my coffee after reading that. I'd say if the OP could speak Thai, he'd solve about 90% of his "communication" problems. The other 10% is just attitude calibration.

[transam]

Maybe you should wait until you have 1 million baht, and buy a new vehicle, at the same price as everyone else pays, and not screwed.. Until then, cruise on a bike as the vast majority of Farangs do.

I hope you succeed with all of your personal issues soon. You can't survive here very well, otherwise

Really have to agree with this. A new, say, even a Honda Civic, is a much better value than a used BMW/Mercedes. Buying a used car in Thailand is just like anywhere else--you have no idea the history of that vehicle. And being a newbie know-it-all with zero Thai language skills probably has the used car dealer foaming at the mouth.

By the way, I don't understand why some farangs would come to Thailand and feel the need to own a top end Euro vehicle, but don't/can't cough up the cash to buy a new one, so end up buying a used one. Is it a status thing? I had a friend from Canada who bought a used Volvo and the thing was a piece of crap. He finally got himself a new Japanese vehicle and could kick himself for wasting time with the used Volvo.

As for this comment from the OP...."This forum seems to be the only thing I can trust at this point and I really need the help." I about choked on my coffee after reading that. I'd say if the OP could speak Thai, he'd solve about 90% of his "communication" problems. The other 10% is just attitude calibration.

Volvo ''crap''.

[mallmagician]

Any car can turn out to be a lemon, that includes Volvo. :-)

[NancyL]

There are beautiful homes available for rent in and around the old city/Nimmanheiman area. Some are in family compounds or small moo baans where the neighbors look out for each other; at least for the other neighbors who are friendly and have a good attitude. Also nice, large condos for rent in many high rises like Rim Ping, Floral, etc with excellent security. I'm so glad we lived in a high rise condo during our first year. We meet so many other westerners in the elevator, condo restaurant, etc and were able to get helpful advice from people who had been here slightly longer than us. The OP is isolated and having a car isn't going to help that.

[zippydedodah]

you might try these folks.... i have never used them, but they have a good reputation among those that i have asked. They have been in CM awhile and i know the wife on a social basis... but they definitely understand the falang mindset and concerns with thai vehicles.

http://expatautocm.com/carsforsale

[Puwa]

The problem with buying used Euro cars in Thailand is the risk of paying too much and getting too little. You pay a premium for the brand name, but the cars sold here are usually the lower-spec models, especially the older ones. They'll have the smaller, less popular engine sizes, poorer interiors, maybe rear drum brakes not discs, and fewer options. But they sell in the Thai market because that's what's on offer and the brand is irresistible. The other problem is that once the car has passed hands a few times it may be full of low quality replacement parts like exhausts, brake rotors, and steering components. Silver lining is that cosmetically the cars tend to be well looked after. It's not bad situation if you like to improve the specs with used premium parts from Japan-- there's a whole Thai car subculture in it. But you have to know your stuff and be willing to spend. Personally, I like the solidity of the Euros. I've seen too many Japanese cars crushed in accidents on Thai roads--give me a big old Swedish tank.

[naboo]

http://expatautocm.com/carsforsale

They have a Yamaha Nouvo Elegance on there for 59,900B which I'm sure is the same price as new. Beat this, its got over 20,000km on the clock. So I looked on Thai Visa and found 7 Nouvo Elegances on there with far fewer km and at least 20,000Baht cheaper, some 50% cheaper!

Not exactly the sort of value the OP is looking for! Bad recomendation based on the Nouvo price! Some of the other motorbike prices seemed top end for 2nd hand bikes. 40k+ for 2nd hand Clicks? I certainly wouldn't be paying it!

[transam]

Any car can turn out to be a lemon, that includes Volvo. :-)

But But But, Warps, help me out here.

[jackjones]

OP? Have you considerd an older japanese car like a Mitsu Lancer, Toyota Corolla or even a Nissan sunny. I am tallking about the early to mid 90's ones. You can pick them up from about 60K onwards and they seem very solid, uncomplicated, easy to fix or improve and reliable and not too much to lose if something really bad happens. I see loads of them still on the road and an Aussie mechanic once told me they were a really good buy compared to the modern stuff. Just a thought.

[orang37]

... snip ... Basically what I may be trying to offer to you is no matter who or what you had ,or were back home....... it will be a much better life for you and your family if your mindset fits into a 'learn' don't 'teach' mode

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Gonzo,

Most eloquently, and kind-heartedly, said, Sir ! There are issues suggested by the style and tone of this post that involve many more than four wheels.

best ~o:37;

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed.

[Thighlander]

Ever notice how bad the suspensions are on the mini-vans? Look at the roads.......

[WarpSpeed]

Any car can turn out to be a lemon, that includes Volvo. :-)

Ok T/A fixed it for ya ..

Especially Volvo ...

Edited April 18, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[CMX]

OP,

I'm sure it is clear now that the auto market here in Thailand is different to the West. Cars do not (presently) depreciate as fast, because until recently all imports were subject to a brutal taxes. Now, Asean nations can avoid the worst; vehicles built here according to Thai "content" regulations pay much less. In fact, two little new "city" cars from Nisan or Hyundai that qualify for lowest taxes because of fuel economy and low pollution are offered at 375K, with air-con but not much else. Trucks and their ilk, built here, are taxed less because they're "farm vehicles." In short, while the market situation is changing, Thailand has been protective, through heavy taxation, of their own industry.

This means that Euro vehicles were overpriced in the first place and tend to stay that way. Their parts are generally more expensive and finding mechanics fully trained in the vehicles more tricky than it is for more popular brands. What we are up against here is an utterly different market situation, where, however, most repairs can be done more cheaply than in the west, but perhaps not as well.

There are those who hold out for Euro cars, but their thinking, truth to tell, is more about style, fashion, status, and habit than reality. The cars you see here, which are far better known to mechanics and far more likely to receive satisfactory service, are Toyotas and Japanese brands which are built here. Popular models were (or are) built here.

Thing is that your title indicates an interest in cost-efficient transportation for your family, and yet your memory leans toward a Euro-luxury brand. Alas, these are incompatible, which is probably why folks are talking about learning about the realities here in Thailand and adapting to them. It calls for a considerable flexibility in thinking and some letting go of old ideas (which may well not apply here). I find this tough, because it seems to happen a lot.

As for contacts and information, I can add that I have moved five times since retirement in order to see the world. If there is one useful thing I have learned, it is to be aggressive in making contacts with those with whom I can communicate and, sometimes, befriend. Aggressive! Yes, some go to bars, farang bars that have a clientele that suits. But as an example, I even went so far as to join Chiang Mai Expats. What was of considerable benefit to me at first, here, was not the mother group but a couple of others that are loosely associated - everything from eating to computers, books to bicycling. The Chiang Mai Forum, if you like to pick and choose, can be of help as well. Just as you see here and above, perhaps, there are ideas that may appeal or not, ease the way of settling in, or not. G'luck,

Edited April 18, 2011 by CMX

[bifftastic]

Thanks everyone for responding so fast. These forums are pretty cool! I just wanted to clear up the whole "Gas Man" issue for Gonzo. I did not really tell him he was full of crap. I just enlightened him to the fact that I was savvy to the approximate going rate. I still think I paid 100 more than I should have. Boa pin yang. I do go about my day in the "Learning" and not "Teaching" mentality, but afetr 4 months the things I have learned have changed me in ways I never expected. I really feel strange in some sort of way and I have no idea how to get past it at this point. I am naturally a real happy guy, but the things I have seen and learned, ...well I cannot say I didn't expect it all, but so soon? I really want to give it a real go and plan to be here for the long, long haul, but I feel like something is missing. Say ...friends that I can trust and hangout with without worring about getting popped. There is nothing worth my interest back in the states, and all the farlang friends here that I have made seem to be the sort that could land me in jail. I am simply exhausted and do not know were to begain again. Now I am ranting. Look at me go! Anyway, these are my problems not yours. Thanks for all the advice and I will get a private mechanic to look at all the cars I am considering and start from there. I am sure if I walk into any decent shop and give a mechanic 500B he would be more than happy to help me out. You would think! TIT.

Cheers,

Thankful

P.S. Are there any real nice expat type of pubs that have cool people and not so many backpackers here for the fleeting jollies? I just want to find a place with quality food, fair prices, and great people. Some place to call home, if you will.

See here you are thinking "back home again!"

TIT - If you give a Thai mechanic you don't know well 500 Baht to check out a car for you - he will (behind your back of course) work out a deal with the seller to get a nice fat commission if he recommends a certain car to you! So he will take your 500 and will get a nice sum from the dealer selling you the car - at least HE will be happy after the deal is done!

Be also very careful that the car you are wanting buy is not financed (most second hand cars are) and if - that the finance company is really paid when you make your payment!

I'd also be very wary of giving a Thai mechanic 500 baht to check the car for you. Even if he doesn't want to scam you, he might just think you want the car to be OK so he'll tell you what you want to hear, he may find something but won't want to give you bad news. He won't think like a mechanic 'back home' because he isn't a mechanic 'back home' he's Thai. You want the car to be OK? You gave him 500 baht? The car's OK. Everyone's happy!

If there's a problem later, that's later. ie. not now, ie. not important (now). If you push the smoking lemon into his garage in 2 weeks time? No problem, he'll fix it for you!

Seriously, why stretch your finances to have a BMW? You're already a 'target' for higher prices, do you think that will change if you drive around in something that cost (a lot) more than everyone's house?

[elektrified]

I have to laugh when I hear people endlessly state that Thais will rip you of whenever they can. Thais are no different than any other people anywhere else in the world. People are people. There are good and bad in all walks of life. I lived in Eastern Europe for 4 years. Ever had any dealings with Russians? Romanians? Ever dealt with an Egyptian? Some Americans will rip you off given the chance. Sure some people are fairly straightforward business people. The Japanese come to mind.

And the people who complain (like the OP) about a 100 Baht difference in the price of cooking gas (or whatever), that is not being "ripped off". This is a free market. If you don't like the price of one vendor, then ask the price from another vendor. Prices vary. Shop around. Pay what you think is fair. One seller at the market near my house charges 70 Baht for celery from the Queens Garden. I can buy it elsewhere for 20 Baht. I don't run around telling people that seller is a kamoy. I just don't buy it from him.

Regarding the two price issue - in the Czech Republic when you go to a restaurant, the menu in the Czech language always has lower prices for the same items than the menus printed in English, French, German or Italian. If you go yo a bar and order a drink speaking a little Czech you will get charged less than if you order in English or another language. Just the way it is. If you choose to be an expat living in a foreign country, then get used to the customs of the country. Don't complain; adapt.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Lite Beer

[mallmagician]

Whilst I agree with electrifieds sentiment, there is a difference between what could be construed as racist, and a genuine observation.

The example given is very very common here. Whilst looking at cars with my Thai wife, I have come across racist farang double pricing constantly, with little exception. This is not this common in other countries. Is Thailand the worst for this practice? Maybe not. But its a valid point of discussion.

I don't agree with saying all thais do this, but it is extremely common. Don't fight it. Be aware of it and as you say, adapt so that you know the price before they see you!

I have a simple rule of asking the price again when they see me, (after my wife has checked the Thai price), if they give me a higher price, I either walk away after telling them politely why, or I end up buying at the lower price as I explain my wife has been given the other price. I. E. I abandon my principal depending on if I can buy the item elsewhere. :-) but I never ever pay the higher price.

[Blinky Bill]

Regarding the two price issue - in the Czech Republic when you go to a restaurant, the menu in the Czech language always has lower prices for the same items than the menus printed in English, French, German or Italian. If you go yo a bar and order a drink speaking a little Czech you will get charged less than if you order in English or another language. Just the way it is. If you choose to be an expat living in a foreign country, then get used to the customs of the country. Don't complain; adapt.

Just going a little off topic for a moment (which is most unusual for me).

I am presently staying long term in a hotel about 145 nautical miles west of Chiang Mai where there are two menus in the restaurant, one in US$'s and the other in the local currency. I pay in US$'s and the locals pay the local currency. My bill for food and drinks is approximately 20% less than that of the locals when converted to the local currency for the exact same items.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

Nice hotel by the way.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Blinky Bill

[mallmagician]

I should add, I in no way agree with chiangmaifun.

But he hit on a valid point in between his rant.

Edited April 19, 2011 by mallmagician

[elektrified]

Whilst I agree with electrifieds sentiment, there is a difference between what could be construed as racist, and a genuine observation.

The example given is very very common here. Whilst looking at cars with my Thai wife, I have come across racist farang double pricing constantly, with little exception. This is not this common in other countries. Is Thailand the worst for this practice? Maybe not. But its a valid point of discussion.

I don't agree with saying all thais do this, but it is extremely common. Don't fight it. Be aware of it and as you say, adapt so that you know the price before they see you!

I have a simple rule of asking the price again when they see me, (after my wife has checked the Thai price), if they give me a higher price, I either walk away after telling them politely why, or I end up buying at the lower price as I explain my wife has been given the other price. I. E. I abandon my principal depending on if I can buy the item elsewhere. :-) but I never ever pay the higher price.

Good post. I do the same as you when shopping for high-ticket items. We have learned to adapt.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I have to laugh when I hear people endlessly state that Thais will rip you of whenever they can. Thais are no different than any other people anywhere else in the world. People are people. There are good and bad in all walks of life. I lived in Eastern Europe for 4 years. Ever had any dealings with Russians? Romanians? Ever dealt with an Egyptian? Some Americans will rip you off given the chance. Sure some people are fairly straightforward business people. The Japanese come to mind.

And the people who complain (like the OP) about a 100 Baht difference in the price of cooking gas (or whatever), that is not being "ripped off". This is a free market. If you don't like the price of one vendor, then ask the price from another vendor. Prices vary. Shop around. Pay what you think is fair. One seller at the market near my house charges 70 Baht for celery from the Queens Garden. I can buy it elsewhere for 20 Baht. I don't run around telling people that seller is a kamoy. I just don't buy it from him.

Regarding the two price issue - in the Czech Republic when you go to a restaurant, the menu in the Czech language always has lower prices for the same items than the menus printed in English, French, German or Italian. If you go yo a bar and order a drink speaking a little Czech you will get charged less than if you order in English or another language. Just the way it is. If you choose to be an expat living in a foreign country, then get used to the customs of the country. Don't complain; adapt.

Privet! yes I've been to Russia 17 times, Czech 6 times and many other places... it's not about 'adapting' it's about their thinking... and it's true no matter what you say.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Whilst I agree with electrifieds sentiment, there is a difference between what could be construed as racist, and a genuine observation.

The example given is very very common here. Whilst looking at cars with my Thai wife, I have come across racist farang double pricing constantly, with little exception. This is not this common in other countries. Is Thailand the worst for this practice? Maybe not. But its a valid point of discussion.

I don't agree with saying all thais do this, but it is extremely common. Don't fight it. Be aware of it and as you say, adapt so that you know the price before they see you!

I have a simple rule of asking the price again when they see me, (after my wife has checked the Thai price), if they give me a higher price, I either walk away after telling them politely why, or I end up buying at the lower price as I explain my wife has been given the other price. I. E. I abandon my principal depending on if I can buy the item elsewhere. :-) but I never ever pay the higher price.

which is why I ask my Thai friends to phone first - I was just making an observation - I always hit them with 'this is my Thai friend you told her/him bla bla' and I get the reduced price.

[mallmagician]

Yes, I apologise for accusing you of ranting. It just seemed like u were tarring all with the same brush. As an observation in certain dealings, I would agree with u. But not all thais are like this. On the whole they're lovely people. :-)

[ChiangMaiFun]

But it IS true that people are quick to insult and be rude to fellow posters on TV - we should all agree to disagree and debate without resorting to insults. I have only occasionally got annoyed and insulted someone but that is after they have been rude to me first (and I have been in the 'naughty boy corner' for doing it).

I believe my observation is sound and accurate - and is shared by many. Thais, generally, do see farangs as 'walking ATMs' which is one reason they don't put the price on car windscreens, for instance, because they want to judge the wealth of the prospect and adjust their price accordingly.

Of course there are crooks everywhere - Russia has been mentioned, Africa, Egypt but we are in Thailand and that's what we are discussing. I don't see the double pricing I see here in the western world - I'm sorry to the Thai apologists (who often think they are more Thai than Thais) but I don't see it - but I see it here.

Edited April 19, 2011 by sbk
deleted quoted post removed

[ChiangMaiFun]

Yes, I apologise for accusing you of ranting. It just seemed like u were tarring all with the same brush. As an observation in certain dealings, I would agree with u. But not all thais are like this. On the whole they're lovely people. :-)

Thanks - which is why I am always careful to use words like 'generally' and the 'majority' because all Thais are NOT like that

(but generally the majority are lovely people too )