How Much Does The Thai Government Lie?

[PeaceBlondie]

In the teaching forum today, I bumped up a thread that started in May, to prove a point. Many of us, in the midst of 128 replies, said that the thing announced by the Thai government would simply never happen. We could post something similar on the news clippings thread, general topics, gays in Thailand, women's thread, etc. The government issues an announcement which we farang take seriously, whereas Somchai out on the soi knows that it is just propaganda. Go way back to some of the older news announcements on those threads, two or four years back, and see what I mean.

Don't we know better than to trust politicians and governments to tell the truth, or do the right thing? Ignore them. They often lie. If Thailand changes to any significant degree, it will be because those in power decided it, not merely because the farangs commented a thousand times on thaivisa.com/forum. However, hopefully, the assistants who advise the sub-managers of the assisstant chiefs to the permanet deputy ministers may read these posts, so let's keep posting.

[ovenman]

I know what you are saying, I don't know that I would call it lying per se. I tend to think of it as some Thai politician simply running their mouth in close proximity to an open microphone. My rule of thumb is that 95% of the government proclamations that are presented as done deals will never come to pass. The trick is knowing which 5% are actually for real.

[samran]

Having worked for the bastards, its not a matter of them lying per se. Its just the truth is very fluid. I don't mean that in a sarcastic way either, at least when it comes to government announcents on plans etc, as at the time, when the announcement is made, some definative decision has been made.

Inevitably what happens though is that the announcement rankles someone in government for a plethora of reasons. Either the logistics of the announcement are not thought through; it treads on their turf; proceedurally it has to go through further consideration at committee or the budget for it gets cut back.

A favourite of mine is when you work quite hard on something for a long time as a part of a huge team, and then the Prime Minister quite independently and innocently, simply wonders out loud anout something to do with your brief. Suddenly, everything that you have worked for ages (sometimes anounced, sometimes not) is null and void, as the PM's utterances are LAW, at least for the time being. So things go off on a tangent for a bit, and nothing ever gets followed up as the government has no real policy framework (unlike in the west where most people going into government have some sort of good or bad legislative agenda).

So this all goes on, things tend to go around in circles for a bit. But eventually, somethings do start to happen. Work that I was part of in 2001 and 2002 is now starting to happen. But it takes time.

[samran]

As an addition to my last post. I once went to a seminar where the PR person for the privatisation programme under Maggie Thatcher gave a fantastic speech.

His basic point was: Announce Nothing. Never Commit, though work on it behind the scenes. Once you have achived what you wanted, announce it then, and then tell the public you have achived your goal, according to/ahead of schedual.

It will make everone think you have you act together, when you really havent.

[ovenman]

So this all goes on, things tend to go around in circles for a bit. But eventually, somethings do start to happen. Work that I was part of in 2001 and 2002 is now starting to happen. But it takes time.

Honestly, that's why it's taken some forty-five years for Suvarnabhumi Airport to get built. Too many changes in government, too many changes in direction, no follow-through on what is already in process. But after forty-five years of bumbling along, what do you know but there is an airport sitting in that old swamp, almost ready to use.

I don't follow the Teaching forum, but am reviewing the topic PeaceBlondie bumped today. A big problem with that alleged plan to hire 10,000 foreign teachers (assuming that anybody was serious about it to begin with) is that it requires the cooperation of too many other governmental ministries for it to ever happen. The Labour ministry doesn't want the Education ministry telling it that it has to give work permits to 10,000 workers, immigrations gets in a snit at the thought of being told to extends these teacher's visas, and so on. Then there is yet another cabinet re-shuffle and a new minister is put in charge of education. The idea simply dies on the vine.

[samran]

Ovenman has it spot on..

The other thing which my former boss taught me was that you have to keep talking about things to keep them on the agenda, even when they are unpopular.

So if you have a new idea, you have to keep talking about it for years, both internally and publically. Eventually, by osmosis, others start mouthing the same thing as it has been the only constant they've been hearing. Eventually, by sheer weight of numbers (the all important thai consensus has been achivied) things start happening.

[marquess]

All governments lie, this one perhaps a bit more so than others. (At least others that most of us would have known having come from a Western country. Anyway what can you expect when TV is controlled by the gov or it's proxies?

[Heng]

We're liberating Iraq dammit. We're not robbing the country of a million barrels of oil a day. Ford confirms gas-A-Hole!

[ovenman]

We're liberating Iraq dammit.  We're not robbing the country of a million barrels of oil a day.  Ford confirms gas-A-Hole!

Same-same but different, I think. The difference between the two is that you refer to things that are actually happening in which the stated intention may differ from the actual intention (i.e. the powers-that-be are actually lying). In the case of the Thai government, stuff is continually announced as a done deal and then never heard from again. The frustration in this circumstance is "what happened?" (or "what didn't happen?"). Others may disagree with me, but I don't think the intention of the Thai government in these instances is to deceive.

[bannork]

Peace Blondie,

I believe I read on one of your posts you are 58 and American. At your age you shouldn't believe spin doctors; you should know in Asia, as in the West, things are said by politicians for underlying reasons. Diverting attention, attracting attention,jockeying for positions, etc you have to look below the surface- and for that you have to know the country well.

Only the naive believe the printed word must be true.

[PeaceBlondie]

Peace Blondie,

I believe I read on one of your posts you are 58 and American. At your age you shouldn't believe spin doctors; you should know in Asia, as in the West, things are said by politicians for underlying reasons. Diverting attention, attracting attention,jockeying for positions, etc you have to look below the surface- and for that you have to know the country well.

Only the naive believe the printed word must be true.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for accusing me of being only 58. I am no longer being mistaken for actor Patrick Swayze.

Sure, I know better, but as Heng pointed out, we Americans are kind of spoiled. We were led to believe that if a person in authority says, "We've definitely decided that we're surely going to do this, in 2.5 years!" that it will be done, according to plan, within 2.7 years. It has taken me two years to realize these are just pontifications, just defecatory exhalations, not statements of truth.

[britmaveric]

Announcements - give the impression smth is being done. No one bothers to ever followup if they made good on what they said they were going to do.

[PeaceBlondie]

Announcements - give the impression smth is being done. No one bothers to ever followup if they made good on what they said they were going to do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And that, britmaveric, is precisely why I bumped the thread and started this one. The truth-seeking part of my brain can't help following up. I guess the solution is simply to note, with every stupid senseless lying announcement, that it will never happen.

[Heng]

Peace Blondie,

I believe I read on one of your posts you are 58 and American. At your age you shouldn't believe spin doctors; you should know in Asia, as in the West, things are said by politicians for underlying reasons. Diverting attention, attracting attention,jockeying for positions, etc you have to look below the surface- and for that you have to know the country well.

Only the naive believe the printed word must be true.

Thanks for accusing me of being only 58. I am no longer being mistaken for actor Patrick Swayze.

Sure, I know better, but as Heng pointed out, we Americans are kind of spoiled. We were led to believe that if a person in authority says, "We've definitely decided that we're surely going to do this, in 2.5 years!" that it will be done, according to plan, within 2.7 years. It has taken me two years to realize these are just pontifications, just defecatory exhalations, not statements of truth.

Mega airport/buffet built on a swamp aside... I've found the local gov't does pretty well on the road/bridge construction estimates, which are posted for everyone to drive by and read.

[britmaveric]

Announcements - give the impression smth is being done. No one bothers to ever followup if they made good on what they said they were going to do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And that, britmaveric, is precisely why I bumped the thread and started this one. The truth-seeking part of my brain can't help following up. I guess the solution is simply to note, with every stupid senseless lying announcement, that it will never happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly start thinking whatever they say will never happen and you will be ok. If it does happen then you will be pleasantly surprised. How many people here actually believe the new airport will open next summer. *sounds of crickets chirping*

[chownah]

Announcements - give the impression smth is being done. No one bothers to ever followup if they made good on what they said they were going to do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And that, britmaveric, is precisely why I bumped the thread and started this one. The truth-seeking part of my brain can't help following up. I guess the solution is simply to note, with every stupid senseless lying announcement, that it will never happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly start thinking whatever they say will never happen and you will be ok. If it does happen then you will be pleasantly surprised. How many people here actually believe the new airport will open next summer. *sounds of crickets chirping*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But I thought that the new airport already opened....a couple of days ago!!!

[Siripon]

Before the General Election the TRT MPs of Nontaburi, Bang Sue and other districts promised their voters a mass transit system, underground or skytrain would be built.

Now the government has announced some lines are not financially viable, the lines would only be busy during the rush hour, bus lanes may replace the planned tracks. Of course any survey pre-election would have revealed these facts.

The promises look like vote buying or assistance for property developers, sure helps to sell houses if you promise it's near a mass transit system.