So Many Decaying Housing Estates.

[Naam]

But I think you will agree that many "Thai estates" get looking fairly shabby early in their aging.

that's beyond my judgment as i haven't entered any since years because since two decades i basically live like a hermit (except of course when travelling abroad) and hate to cross my property line. friends who spent several times a year a couple of weeks in Pattaya know the ins and outs of the town whereas quite often i have no idea what they are talking about.

but nowadays i force myself to leave home once or twice a week to move my favourite car and show the surroundings to my dogs. acting as a staunch defender of Pattaya when the bashers talk about the "shithole et al" doesn't mean that i particularly like Pattaya. i tolerate the city as it is, appreciate that the Mrs can buy nearly all fancy goodies we require for our kitchen/dining table but apart from that... i live in my home that happens to be located in the Pattaya area.

:jap:

[lannarebirth]

My son just bought a small, 2 bedroom stucco home in Victoria, BC, Canada. It cost him the equivalent of 16 million baht.

My home in Duncan is larger and nicer, but the properties values are lower than Victora. It's listed at about 12 million baht.

I"ve seen far nicer homes than ours in Chiang Mai for much less.

In the nicer neighbourhoods in Vancouver or Toronto my home would be worth over 30 million baht.

Ian is that Victoria or Colwood?

I used to have dual US citizenship / Canadian residence, and lived just a short ferry ride away from Ian on Salt Spring Island. That area Ian lives in and Maple Bay is absolutely beautiful and I'm still kicking myself for not buying something there back in 2002 when the $CDN wa so dam_n cheap, as was the property.

[lovelomsak]

My son just bought a small, 2 bedroom stucco home in Victoria, BC, Canada. It cost him the equivalent of 16 million baht.

My home in Duncan is larger and nicer, but the properties values are lower than Victora. It's listed at about 12 million baht.

I"ve seen far nicer homes than ours in Chiang Mai for much less.

In the nicer neighbourhoods in Vancouver or Toronto my home would be worth over 30 million baht.

Ian is that Victoria or Colwood?

I used to have dual US citizenship / Canadian residence, and lived just a short ferry ride away from Ian on Salt Spring Island. That area Ian lives in and Maple Bay is absolutely beautiful and I'm still kicking myself for not buying something there back in 2002 when the $CDN wa so dam_n cheap, as was the property.

You are right it is one of the most beautiful areas of the world. I owned 3 houses on the island. 2 in victoria and one in Courteney. The whole area is beautiful. I circumnavigated Salt Spring many times.The Ganges Yacht club has an annual round salt spring race great fun. Been all the way to Alaska and back by boat done the inside passage etc. The west coast of Canada is very pristine. Just joking with Ian about the Colwood thing should have said Langford I like Salt Spring a lot too. My Yacht club has an out station there, just a short distance from Ganges townsite. Cowichan Bay has one of the most fun regattas on the island, that is close to Ian too. They donot call it beautiful BC for nothing.

Please excuse my rambling here,sorry for being off topic.

Edited May 2, 2011 by lovelomsak

[seriouseats]

If you don't mind, can I ask how much roughly it costs to buy a house on one of these estates? The estates I've been looking at probably max out at around 10 million baht. I would be really interested in these high end places as I've never seen one.

it all depends on size (land size and home size). a friend of mine lives in a posh gated community in Jomtien (much "posher" than mine!) where land prices have reached 45,000 Baht per wah². there you find rather small homes (150m² on 80w² land) for 12-14 million Baht. land, home, pool and garden fit for dwarfs and the garage size just right for a Jazz or a Vios. all land (like in a neighbouring community) surrounded by high walls divided by narrow roads... = depressing!

where i live (2km east of Sukhumvit) 90% of the homes are built on one Rai or more. no walls, just ornamental fences, wide roads, well kept gardens to look at when passing by, hardly any traffic, no noise especially for us located on a cul de sac.

here's an old picture of our home dated sept 2005, a month after we moved in (garden/trees not yet mature and road dirty because of construction opposite):

that has to be 20million right now

[seriouseats]

Prices in thailand are stupid and i dont understand why people even accept to overpay so much.

all house between 12-20million baht, 5mins from montreal, canada one of the nicest city in the world and i think the city with the most restaurant per person in the world. right next to a regional park with hundred of km's of bike/walk/cross country ski trails, that also extend to every major street in the city and surrounding cities. Right next to a top notch hospital. No traffic, no noise, no crappy skycrappers.

http://www.remax-que...fromsearch=true

http://www.remax-que...fromsearch=true

http://www.remax-que...fromsearch=true

http://www.remax-que...fromsearch=true

http://www.remax-que...fromsearch=true <- this one is 20mil. would be 100mil in thailand. It's basically on the main street in the old town, right next to local music park, old chapel, old style pubs and high class restaurants.. all festivals are there.

All of them have insanely nice construction standards.

Edited May 2, 2011 by seriouseats

[Richb2004v2]

10 - 12 million is a lot of money in any country to ensure a decent standard. That kind of money would buy a great house in the uk, or probably anywhere in Europe.

wrong assumption Rich! 12 million Baht = 270,000 €URos will buy you a nice rowhouse in good suburb of Hamburg, Frankfurt or Düsseldorf and in a real posh München area you might get a big double garage for that price if you are lucky (i exaggerate a wee bit )

no exaggeration is that we couldn't have afforded to build our Thai home anywhere in Germany. an (expert) friend of mine estimated in 2006 the building cost (ex land) at approximately 1.8-2.2 m €UR.

Sorry, my calculation was well out there. I guess in that case 12 million baht won't get you that much in the Uk, but it will still get a decent house in most areas other than central Cities.

Your house looks very nice, but I still wouldn't pay 270,000 Euros for what at the end of the day is still in a developing country, with it's noise, smells, litter, inefficiencies, ultra corruption, abundant slums and general chaos. They don't say 'location, location, location' for nothing. The 270k house in Germany of England would likely be largely minus the undesirable attributes I mention. No matter how nice the 'estate' the house is on once outside the compound gates you are back into the real Thailand. However, if you spend your time inside away from the chaos then all is probably fine.

Anyway, my original point was that the majority of new estates do go down hill very quickly. So far I haven't seen anything with my own eyes to make me think otherwise. Even on a 10 million plus estate I'd have to see it to believe it as I just can't imagine an estate full of Thais all keeping everything neat and tidy even if they had the money to do it.

[GreenSnapper]

10 - 12 million is a lot of money in any country to ensure a decent standard. That kind of money would buy a great house in the uk, or probably anywhere in Europe. I've been looking at houses for a third to half that price in the Uk and all were in streets and areas cleaner and better kept than any I've seen in Thailand, other than maybe the ones you talk of. It doesn't seem quite right that in a developing country like Thailand you need to spent 500k pounds to enjoy a decent standard. Than again, maybe it does. I wonder what proportion of Thais live in houses priced 10 - 20 million?

I have seen 'luxury' condos (!) in Pattaya for around 20-30 million Baht.

Only a few years old, but already crap. The mostly farang owners where desparetly trying to sell them. Without much success.

Prices here are well out of any reason. Third world building standards and workers get 30 baht an hour.

But Western prices and more. But ok, that's market. People pay for such crap, so it is right.

If i shell out 30 million baht, I'd chose a Western country with high living standards, but not a dump like Pattaya.

[IanForbes]

You are right it is one of the most beautiful areas of the world. I owned 3 houses on the island. 2 in victoria and one in Courteney. The whole area is beautiful. I circumnavigated Salt Spring many times.The Ganges Yacht club has an annual round salt spring race great fun. Been all the way to Alaska and back by boat done the inside passage etc. The west coast of Canada is very pristine. Just joking with Ian about the Colwood thing should have said Langford I like Salt Spring a lot too. My Yacht club has an out station there, just a short distance from Ganges townsite. Cowichan Bay has one of the most fun regattas on the island, that is close to Ian too. They donot call it beautiful BC for nothing.

Please excuse my rambling here,sorry for being off topic.

Yes, I'm fortunate that I live where I do and bought when I did. It has tripled in value since I bought it 18 years ago. My son's house is not far from Beacon HIll park, but it's 50 years old and built BEFORE everyone "needed" a big, opulent home. And, both Langford and Colwood are now becoming "upscale" neighbourhoods. There IS no cheap housing anymore near Victoria.

But, that contrasts widely from what I see in Thailand. In Bangkok I see million dollar homes right next to tin shacks. It is only in the various moobans that I see some consistency... either for the good or for the bad. I think some people are trying to compare apples to oranges.

[Naam]

Your house looks very nice, but I still wouldn't pay 270,000 Euros for what at the end of the day is still in a developing country, with it's noise, smells, litter, inefficiencies, ultra corruption, abundant slums and general chaos.

and i wouldn't accept an offer of €UR 1 million for my home. whatever negatives you cited do not concern me because either they don't apply or are more than outweighed by positive factors (the latter seen and judged from my personal perspective). but then... we all know that individual mileages vary.

[Naam]

Prices in thailand are stupid and i dont understand why people even accept to overpay so much.

how true! people must be indeed stupid because they pay these stupid prices. intelligent people live in Montreal, enjoy the highest number of restaurants per capita but can't afford a posh restaurant very often because the Québecois taxman takes 48.22% income tax out of their pockets and adds a 14.97% sales tax on goods and services (as opposed to the Thai taxman who takes ZERO income tax and charges a modest 7% VAT).

next intelligent suggestion please

[seriouseats]

Prices in thailand are stupid and i dont understand why people even accept to overpay so much.

how true! people must be indeed stupid because they pay these stupid prices. intelligent people live in Montreal, enjoy the highest number of restaurants per capita but can't afford a posh restaurant very often because the Québecois taxman takes 48.22% income tax out of their pockets and adds a 14.97% sales tax on goods and services (as opposed to the Thai taxman who takes ZERO income tax and charges a modest 7% VAT).

next intelligent suggestion please

im not talking about buying a house in general, im talking about the ever growing ammount of stupid people overpaying for what they have.

If you're seriously less than 2km away from the main road of pattaya, with a view and 1+rai and your house is spot on inside, 1mil is not overpriced.

and im not just talking about big houses, im talking about the high overpricing in small houses that thais happily pay.

Big moobaan. 3 rows of small 36 square wah 1 storey twin houses. Dirty, Noisy. sold at 1.5mb a few years ago. No care to it, they sell at 2.5 right now (all sold) from previous owners. Location is nothing special. The 2 storey 40square wah twin house, 2.3mil before(new model 2.9) they sell for 3.1-3.5 when the new model is cheaper and still not run down, 4 of them sold recently. for 2.6 there's a new project by a western company 1.5km away which has larger, better standards(almost a western house in western land) and a park/lake etc etc(very small ammount of houses that were sold at small profit just to make the company's commercial project look populated)

What the hell goes through the mind of those thais?

on a side note, living on the side of montreal.. even if you'd have to pay taxes. Food is cheap, farms are close so fresh veggies and fruits are so so cheap, great public schools, every service possible is included in those taxes so you get what you pay for. In thailand you rarely get what you pay for unless you're talking about something really cheap. Personally it took me 3 years of canceling in the middle of paying for a house, to find one that i wasn't being ripped off.

Edited May 3, 2011 by seriouseats

[Richb2004v2]

Prices in thailand are stupid and i dont understand why people even accept to overpay so much.

how true! people must be indeed stupid because they pay these stupid prices. intelligent people live in Montreal, enjoy the highest number of restaurants per capita but can't afford a posh restaurant very often because the Québecois taxman takes 48.22% income tax out of their pockets and adds a 14.97% sales tax on goods and services (as opposed to the Thai taxman who takes ZERO income tax and charges a modest 7% VAT).

next intelligent suggestion please

I personally think that the Thai taxman should start taking some income tax and put the money to good use in improving the country. I think you would have a hard time convincing an impartial party to choose Pattaya over Montreal.

[sarahsbloke]

Nobody would ever convince me to live in a toilet, no matter how good the tax breaks were.

Even if it was a toilet with my own private stall and a golden throne, that I never had to leave.

Naam is a great one for telling us all how financially stupid we are, but when you see where he chooses to live, all credibility is lost.

Edited May 3, 2011 by sarahsbloke

[Richb2004v2]

Prices in thailand are stupid and i dont understand why people even accept to overpay so much.

all house between 12-20million baht, 5mins from montreal, canada one of the nicest city in the world and i think the city with the most restaurant per person in the world. right next to a regional park with hundred of km's of bike/walk/cross country ski trails, that also extend to every major street in the city and surrounding cities. Right next to a top notch hospital. No traffic, no noise, no crappy skycrappers.

http://www.remax-que...fromsearch=true

http://www.remax-que...fromsearch=true

http://www.remax-que...fromsearch=true

http://www.remax-que...fromsearch=true

http://www.remax-que...fromsearch=true <- this one is 20mil. would be 100mil in thailand. It's basically on the main street in the old town, right next to local music park, old chapel, old style pubs and high class restaurants.. all festivals are there.

All of them have insanely nice construction standards.

There are some fantastic houses there, that look well worth the money, and at comparable prices to the badly built efforts offered in Thailand. I doubt there are any houses in Thailand as well built and as high quality as those. I doubt there are any tin shed estates close by either, or bunches of cables hanging along the road.

[bonobo]

I know several developers, and the construction costs here are not that high. I can build a reasonable house for less than 5,000,000 baht using standards more akin to western building codes. The problem in BKK is the cost of land.

I was told of a parcel which was getting subdivided outside of Kachanapisek on the Thonburi side, so I went to take a look. I liked one lot, not too terribly big, but with a nice view. I called the owner of the parcel, and the lot was $13,000,000 baht.

I also looked at some bank foreclosures. One was in an abandoned development where less than 20% of the lots had houses on them. 220 rai, and the bank wanted 8,000,000 baht for the lot. No improvements to the lot, just the road leading up to it. The bank has owned the lot since 1997. This one was also outside of Kachanapisek

[seriouseats]

Prices in thailand are stupid and i dont understand why people even accept to overpay so much.

all house between 12-20million baht, 5mins from montreal, canada one of the nicest city in the world and i think the city with the most restaurant per person in the world. right next to a regional park with hundred of km's of bike/walk/cross country ski trails, that also extend to every major street in the city and surrounding cities. Right next to a top notch hospital. No traffic, no noise, no crappy skycrappers.

http://www.remax-que...fromsearch=true

http://www.remax-que...fromsearch=true

http://www.remax-que...fromsearch=true

http://www.remax-que...fromsearch=true

http://www.remax-que...fromsearch=true <- this one is 20mil. would be 100mil in thailand. It's basically on the main street in the old town, right next to local music park, old chapel, old style pubs and high class restaurants.. all festivals are there.

All of them have insanely nice construction standards.

There are some fantastic houses there, that look well worth the money, and at comparable prices to the badly built efforts offered in Thailand. I doubt there are any houses in Thailand as well built and as high quality as those. I doubt there are any tin shed estates close by either, or bunches of cables hanging along the road.

The white house, i used to live in 10years ago. it sold for 7mil baht, not maybe 15-17. 2km from main highway, 5km from montreal. Bike path that leads to city'S forest/bike trails. Great school 500meters. Highschool 1.1km college 1.2km. Thai food 1.25km, tim horton 1.25km, other great school 1.6km, public pool 1.6km , walmart 1.8km, hospital 2km. etc etc.

The nice houses under have their backyard next to the golf club and a good highschool.. 1km from a provincial highway. 800meters from an awesome place with cinema, bowling 25 restaurants. An indoor Kid's playground etc etc. other bridge to montreal is 2km from there

Quality of life = nothing bad there. When i turn 30 i hope i can afford to buy one of those house $ and move back there.

Those house go from 12mil to 30mil. 12mil you get a really nice one, just a little smaller (3-4br) in thailand what do you get for 12mil near amenities ? a 40 square wah rundown house? add to that no noise/no wires/good schools.. you get a 75 square meter condo with 8 million put into noise isolation

[Naam]

Nobody would ever convince me to live in a toilet, no matter how good the tax breaks were.

Even if it was a toilet with my own private stall and a golden throne, that I never had to leave.

Naam is a great one for telling us all how financially stupid we are, but when you see where he chooses to live, all credibility is lost.

could you elaborate? when did i tell anybody he is financially stupid? and what has my home to do with credibility? is the reason for your posting perhaps Lao Khao?

[Naam]

oops! i withdraw my questions. this posting self-explanatory and full to the brim with "credibility":

...and finally settled on a nice 2 bedroom house just off the road to Mae Rim for 5,000bht a month, Thai estate near Huay Tung Tao.

[seriouseats]

oops! i withdraw my questions. this posting self-explanatory and full to the brim with "credibility":

...and finally settled on a nice 2 bedroom house just off the road to Mae Rim for 5,000bht a month, Thai estate near Huay Tung Tao.

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4085013

Yeah that link shows exactly why i hate these type of topics with thai expats. So many of them see in that 5000 house, a large 3br house with a garden

I see Pastel colors, uneven doors, floors and stairs, holes at every corner full of insects. a run down thai kitchen, white run down concrete walls. space between walls and windows so that the AC costs 3x as much. A bathroom that smells rancid with a little electric shower that would give queen elizabeth a heart attack on the spot. etc etc. It's close to living in a ghetto/projects yet many here think this is 'quite nice' just because next to them there is a tin foil hut making their rundown house look spacious and expensive

[FarangBuddha]

The other thing which surprised me is that people don't seem to get their house ready to show when they have it up for sale. I have been in houses with children's scrawling on all the walls, dead birds on the floors, no yardwork, etc.

Being an American where home improvements are almost a religion, this is a huge culture shock to me.

And where did all that home "improvement" fetishism get them...the largest real estate crash since the Great Depression

[lovelomsak]

The other thing which surprised me is that people don't seem to get their house ready to show when they have it up for sale. I have been in houses with children's scrawling on all the walls, dead birds on the floors, no yardwork, etc.

Being an American where home improvements are almost a religion, this is a huge culture shock to me.

And where did all that home "improvement" fetishism get them...the largest real estate crash since the Great Depression

you are so right . Many of them were speculators doing the right thing s for the wrong reason. Many did it only for resale value. Some did it for personal comforts . The people who did it for personal comforts probably werenot effected by the real estate crash, just kept living comfortably.

[lovelomsak]

oops! i withdraw my questions. this posting self-explanatory and full to the brim with "credibility":

...and finally settled on a nice 2 bedroom house just off the road to Mae Rim for 5,000bht a month, Thai estate near Huay Tung Tao.

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4085013

Yeah that link shows exactly why i hate these type of topics with thai expats. So many of them see in that 5000 house, a large 3br house with a garden

I see Pastel colors, uneven doors, floors and stairs, holes at every corner full of insects. a run down thai kitchen, white run down concrete walls. space between walls and windows so that the AC costs 3x as much. A bathroom that smells rancid with a little electric shower that would give queen elizabeth a heart attack on the spot. etc etc. It's close to living in a ghetto/projects yet many here think this is 'quite nice' just because next to them there is a tin foil hut making their rundown house look spacious and expensive

serioueats that is why they are called ghetto castles.

[sarahsbloke]

white run down concrete walls. space between walls and windows so that the AC costs 3x as much.

Not a problem if you don't have a/c

My last months electricity bill was 690bht

My wife previously lived in a corrugated iron hut in the jungle with no doors, windows, back wall, furniture or running water.

I can assure you, she thinks our current home the height of luxury.

Compared to most expats in Thailand who live in a one room condo, it is.

Edited May 3, 2011 by sarahsbloke

[bonobo]

The other thing which surprised me is that people don't seem to get their house ready to show when they have it up for sale. I have been in houses with children's scrawling on all the walls, dead birds on the floors, no yardwork, etc.

Being an American where home improvements are almost a religion, this is a huge culture shock to me.

And where did all that home "improvement" fetishism get them...the largest real estate crash since the Great Depression

Strange post. What does keeping up your property have to do with banks making bad loans? Whenever I go back to my US home on a visit, nothing much has changed other than perpahs the paper value of the homes. People still live and work and play. And fix up their houses.

And what that has to do with my surprised that people selling their houses here don't try to make them look good to maximize their sales price is also beyond me.

[Richb2004v2]

A south African once said to me 'better to be a king in the land of kaffirs than a kaffir in the land of kings'. In my naivety I agreed with him. After 7 years in Thailand I realize he was talking nonsense, but probably made himself feel better.

Ghetto castles is a great term I've never heard.

[Naam]

oops! i withdraw my questions. this posting self-explanatory and full to the brim with "credibility":

...and finally settled on a nice 2 bedroom house just off the road to Mae Rim for 5,000bht a month, Thai estate near Huay Tung Tao.

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4085013

Yeah that link shows exactly why i hate these type of topics with thai expats. So many of them see in that 5000 house, a large 3br house with a garden

I see Pastel colors, uneven doors, floors and stairs, holes at every corner full of insects. a run down thai kitchen, white run down concrete walls. space between walls and windows so that the AC costs 3x as much. A bathroom that smells rancid with a little electric shower that would give queen elizabeth a heart attack on the spot. etc etc. It's close to living in a ghetto/projects yet many here think this is 'quite nice' just because next to them there is a tin foil hut making their rundown house look spacious and expensive

there's nothing wrong with a 5k Baht/month home. you stretch as far as your financial blanket covers you (german proverb). but if you live the lifestyle what i call <snip> you shouldn't have a big mouth and make derogatory, even insulting remarks, as the "Bloke of Sarah" did today.

alas, some people have no shame, don't mind shooting their own foot and seem to enjoy ridiculing themselves.

[sarahsbloke]

alas, some people have no shame, don't mind shooting their own foot and seem to enjoy ridiculing themselves.

But I do agree with you on some points, if I were unable to leave my home, I would want it to be very nice, but also in a very nice area.

From you previous posts, I have to assume you are either ill or disabled, but I still wouldn't choose to live where you are.

I've been and done the big house thing.

Now I live a different life, and wonder why anyone needs so many rooms.

One room to have the Tv and computer in, one room to sleep in.

Why would you need more than that?

Edited May 3, 2011 by sarahsbloke

[Naam]

i am neither disabled nor ill my friend. i (actually we) enjoy pure refined luxurious living in each and every respect. that is the reason why we built (for the second time) a home which, down to the very last detail and square foot, was designed to meet our demands more or less regardless as far as cost is concerned.

but i don't blame you if you don't understand why and how we live our lives because most of our numerous friends from various countries who visit us quite often don't understand either. however, your remark concerning "credibility" was extremely unfair and definitely not warranted.

all said, nothing to add. let's go back to the "decaying estates" even though i give a flying fàrt whether decaying estates do or don't exist in the Land of Smiles.

:jap:

[seriouseats]

white run down concrete walls. space between walls and windows so that the AC costs 3x as much.

Not a problem if you don't have a/c

My last months electricity bill was 690bht

My wife previously lived in a corrugated iron hut in the jungle with no doors, windows, back wall, furniture or running water.

I can assure you, she thinks our current home the height of luxury.

Compared to most expats in Thailand who live in a one room condo, it is.

When i drop off my kid to school and see about 40-50 expats everytime.

More than half of them are driving a honda accord or better (up to 10mil baht cars)

40% are driving low model like city and jazz, of the year

and 10% are driving old beat up cars.

I doubt most of the people driving honda accord or better are living with their 2-3 kids in a 1room dump

[seriouseats]

i am neither disabled nor ill my friend. i (actually we) enjoy pure refined luxurious living in each and every respect. that is the reason why we built (for the second time) a home which, down to the very last detail and square foot, was designed to meet our demands more or less regardless as far as cost is concerned.

but i don't blame you if you don't understand why and how we live our lives because most of our numerous friends from various countries who visit us quite often don't understand either. however, your remark concerning "credibility" was extremely unfair and definitely not warranted.

all said, nothing to add. let's go back to the "decaying estates" even though i give a flying fàrt whether decaying estates do or don't exist in the Land of Smiles.

:jap:

You have inside pictures? It's really nice outside.