So Many Decaying Housing Estates.

[Richb2004v2]

Recently we spent a day or so driving around housing estates looking for a house to rent. I was really surprised to find that without exception every housing estate older than a couple of years was run down and in some degree of decay. Regardless of the rental being from 15,000 baht to 70,000 baht if the estate was not new or nearly new they were a bit of a mess. On housing estates with different phases of build the gradual decay was obvious. It seems that the standard course is to build the first estate over a couple of years, then build 'Generic estate II' then 'Generic estate III' and so on, all the while neglecting the older estates entirely. The older estates get more of a mess, the rental price drops and so do the sale price I guess. We revisited some estates that I thought were perfect a few years ago only to find even they had many eyesores on them and were now far from impressive. On every estate the grass was overgrown and much paint was needed. Even an 'exclusive' estate with huge houses priced from 50,000 per month up, set in tropical gardens, was really not great and not well maintained. I didn't come across a single estate that looked like a good long term prospect. I can't believe that for 800 uk pounds per month in Thailand we still only found below par housing in anything other than brand new areas.

Don't get me wrong there are plenty of nice single houses on estates but there are no estates with consistently nice houses throughout that are older than 5 years.

It seems to me that in Thailand houses (or estates) are like cars, in that they really need replacing every 4 or 5 years. I wonder if that is what wealthy Thais do, or do they just ignore whats around them?

[Crushdepth]

Finding a place that is well managed is not easy, but some of the more reputable developers (eg. Raimon Land) take care to put good management companies in place before they hand over. They are not usually at the cheapest end of the spectrum though.

[Jaivin2011]

Local Thais and areas where you have the cheaper Brit expats normally do not care abt their dwellings or worst abt the common areas etc. Its common the see estates or even condo projects just "decay" after a while.

[thaimate]

On our estate (mainly Thai ,houses 4.5 to 12 million) we look after it ourselves pay a yearly fee and all the grass is cut ect ,bins emptied and fences painted regularaly , however there are two streets who opted out and they are rough ,everyone around us sweeps the main road every single day ,its a treat to see the place.

[Richb2004v2]

On our estate (mainly Thai ,houses 4.5 to 12 million) we look after it ourselves pay a yearly fee and all the grass is cut ect ,bins emptied and fences painted regularaly , however there are two streets who opted out and they are rough ,everyone around us sweeps the main road every single day ,its a treat to see the place.

It sounds like you have a nice environment. How long have you been there?

We visited a few more estates today. One of them used to be fantastic 5 to 10 years ago, with big roads and European/American style houses and cul-de-sacs. Now the grass is 5 feet high in places and half the houses are in a poor state. The Clubhouse that we used to use is empty and derelict too. Some of the houses were still nice but far outnumbered by others dropping to bits.

[gregb]

I wonder if that is what wealthy Thais do, or do they just ignore whats around them?

Of course wealthy Thais simply ignore whatever is around them. It is a microcosm of the whole country. Simply build a big wall, keep your place immaculate, and let all the peasants do whatever they want. The whole country runs that way. Why do you think an individual housing estate is going to be any different from the cities and the country in general? Why do you think slums are allowed to spring up right next to expensive subdivisions? How can the people tolerate street vendors crowding the sidewalks on an otherwise pristine road? Wealthy Thais simply know that is how the other 90% lives, and they ignore it. It is the Thai way.

It is a very rare development that manages to attract only responsible owners. For the most part, a well kept street is about the best you can hope for.

[Spoonman]

I live in a small "community" it was the first built and the company is up to #6 in the area, mine is well maintained always someone taking care of the communal pool and general "soi" maintenance, I see 2 ladies every morning sweeping the soi from dog shit and such, garbage is collected every 2 days.

Had a mate over a few weeks ago, he borrowed my pickup, the security would not let him out he gate until I gave the thumbs up.

Edited April 28, 2011 by Spoonman

[PingManDan]

SO MANY BUILDERS MONEY RIP OFFS start this senario, also many were from the 97 crash of the Thai baht.

[keestha]

All too often Thai people building housing estates/hotels/resorts are not penny pinching when making the initial investment, but after that all they want is take in money, they are not willing to plough part of the cash back into the place - for maintainance and improvements.

Stumbled across countless examples: Very nicely laid out resort, charming main building built on a slope, alpine style with massive stones in the concrete walls. But in our bungalow the shower had a problem and there were holes in the walls through which lots of noisy cicadas were coming in.

[Richb2004v2]

After moaning about my estate for the past couple of years I know see that compared to all others I've visited this one is the best.

It's hard for me to understand the Thai attitude to houses and where they live. They seem not to be at all concerned about the things that deter westerners. Noise and mess are seemingly not important. It amazes me when I see a huge new house built next door to a slum or a noisy intersection. I guess it's a huge advantage to be able to ignore these things. To them the western way is probably very strange.

[EvilDrSomkid]

The concept of maintainance does not exist here. Pure and simple.

They just let stuff rot and break. That is the way here.

Same as with cars. That's why you see so many second hand cars for sale. They ALL need work.

They rather spend 4 mil up on a new car than maintain them.

[thaimate]

On our estate (mainly Thai ,houses 4.5 to 12 million) we look after it ourselves pay a yearly fee and all the grass is cut ect ,bins emptied and fences painted regularaly , however there are two streets who opted out and they are rough ,everyone around us sweeps the main road every single day ,its a treat to see the place.

It sounds like you have a nice environment. How long have you been there?

We visited a few more estates today. One of them used to be fantastic 5 to 10 years ago, with big roads and European/American style houses and cul-de-sacs. Now the grass is 5 feet high in places and half the houses are in a poor state. The Clubhouse that we used to use is empty and derelict too. Some of the houses were still nice but far outnumbered by others dropping to bits.

6 years.

[StreetCowboy]

I'm surprised when I see the new luxury housing estates with quite fancy houses jammed shoulder to shoulder.

I'd rather live in a tenament with a decent back green and a view over the street than in a villa with no space to swing a cat around it (not that I have a cat, anyway...)

SC

[MrsMills]

The concept of maintainance does not exist here. Pure and simple.

They just let stuff rot and break. That is the way here.

Same as with cars. That's why you see so many second hand cars for sale. They ALL need work.

They rather spend 4 mil up on a new car than maintain them.

The concept of maintainance does not exist here. Pure and simple. = Wrong.

They just let stuff rot and break. That is the way here. = Wrong again.

Same as with cars. That's why you see so many second hand cars for sale. They ALL need work. = Wrong again.

They rather spend 4 mil up on a new car than maintain them. And guess what, wrong again.

It's like saying ALL Farangs are bigoted a-holes who think they are doing Thailand a huge favor by living here, whilst that tag fits many, its certainly not all.

Edited April 29, 2011 by MrsMills

[mstribling]

MrsMills- I served in Iraqi Freedom in 2003 with your son Eric. He was a FO in my company. Please tell him I said hello.

[seriouseats]

No the simple problem is, no matter how well some thais keep their house. There's always 1 house in the middle of the street that's rotten and just throws their dogs to shit everywhere, then they let their garbage fly away to neighbors, etc etc etc. At some point the neighbors stop caring about anything but their own yard, not even the street right infront of their house.

I know, its exactly like that where i am. Everyone has nice garden, even in front of the walls.. and on each street of 12-25(depending on size) there's 2-3 guys that have rubbish falling off the top of the wall, dirty animals roaming, 3 old beaten up cars leaking around. They kill the whole street by themselves.

Funny story, one of those dirty people kept putting leftover food right in front of a common wall not used for any house, but close to mine.. I decided to take it and throw it right in their driveway and now there's no more food anywhere outside, they might have learned a little, if they start again its on top of their brand new camry 2.4.

A neighbor also beat their dog badly and it is now not coming outside of their yards for its multiple daily public poopoo and barking at motorbikes(a 5pound ugly little thing)

[scorecard]

What part of Thailand are you referring to, Bkk, Pattaya, South, Chiang Mai or?

[Crushdepth]

There's always 1 house in the middle of the street that's rotten and just throws their dogs to shit everywhere

There's a lot to be said for a nice apartment complex, which is walled in and has a "no pets" policy.

[scorecard]

After moaning about my estate for the past couple of years I know see that compared to all others I've visited this one is the best.

It's hard for me to understand the Thai attitude to houses and where they live. They seem not to be at all concerned about the things that deter westerners. Noise and mess are seemingly not important. It amazes me when I see a huge new house built next door to a slum or a noisy intersection. I guess it's a huge advantage to be able to ignore these things. To them the western way is probably very strange.

There's obviously multiple sitations here. One point I'm aware of is that Thai's are very relectant to pay into funds for village / condo maintenance, because there have been so many cases of corruption involving large 'commissions; to money simply disappearing, etc.

I recently moved out of a condo in Bkk, in the last 4 years there have been at least 10 incidents of office staff, the office manager, committee members raking of small and large amounts. One example, the committee decides to replace the ceiling in the office area (it did need replacing). Nothing wrong with the aluminium suspended framing, just needed to replace the drop in tiles. On site maintenance man got two quotes, 28,00Baht and 40,000Baht.

After some heated discussion neither quote was accepted. One committee member then got an independant quote with no involvement from the building staff, 4,000Baht.

[Richb2004v2]

What part of Thailand are you referring to, Bkk, Pattaya, South, Chiang Mai or?

Pattaya, Ban Chang (where I live) and Bangkok. I can't imagine anywhere else being much different since I've visited a lot of estates and driven down many soi over the past week, and none of them were cheap, at least to begin with.

[jimbeam1]

I read somewhere that the modern way that Thais build is, with a 30yrs life span for buildings? So no need to maintain?

jb1

[trogers]

The reason for the decay is that there is no law and enforcement to compel social order, and no significant property taxes to compel economic use of real properties (rather then leaving them vacant and uncared for). And why so? Because most politicians are also big property/land owners.

A case in point - how many houses or even condo units leave a basin or urn of stagnant water breeding mosquitoes with no thought about potential health issues?

[Richb2004v2]

I read somewhere that the modern way that Thais build is, with a 30yrs life span for buildings? So no need to maintain?

jb1

I'd say that without maintenance a house here would begin to look very jaded after 10 years, but probably less. There are houses on my Soi that have been up around 5 years and now look a bit worse for wear.

The worst I've seen is when they build a pond in the garden and within two months is is neglected and full of stagnant water never to be touched again. That really adds to the aesthetics of the property.

[Sakeopete]

I think it boils down to there being no investment value in Thai homes. Unlike the west (except recent bubble burst)housing doesn't increase in value so Thai's may not be interested in maintaining or improving their property. They don't like buying second hand homes because there isn't big face in it for them unlike new homes.

[zzaa09]

What part of Thailand are you referring to, Bkk, Pattaya, South, Chiang Mai or?

Pattaya, Ban Chang (where I live) and Bangkok. I can't imagine anywhere else being much different since I've visited a lot of estates and driven down many soi over the past week, and none of them were cheap, at least to begin with.

Rather limiting yourself to the Patters-Bangers region, yes?

[Richb2004v2]

What part of Thailand are you referring to, Bkk, Pattaya, South, Chiang Mai or?

Pattaya, Ban Chang (where I live) and Bangkok. I can't imagine anywhere else being much different since I've visited a lot of estates and driven down many soi over the past week, and none of them were cheap, at least to begin with.

Rather limiting yourself to the Patters-Bangers region, yes?

I guess so, but are other regions so different? Is neglect a feature only of the particular areas I've visited? I don't think that the Rayong and Pattaya area is below average as far as wealth goes. I have unfortunate friends in Bangkok that have experienced the same situation: buying or building fine houses on new estates 6 - 7 years ago only now to be stuck on what are really sink estates. I've experienced the same with condos and even Hotels that we've returned to after a couple of years only to find they have entirely changed. I really seems that in Thailand new is good, but anything else is more often than not much less than good. Only my observation though.

[trogers]

I hate to imagine how those developments that have major water features as part of their marketing effort age...

It is common for developers not to spend capital outlay on water treatment system. and only spent enough to construct these features. How then will these water features be maintained, and how can money be collected from each property owner to get it done.

Example of one 30+ yo housing estate - Samakorn at Sukhapiban 3 road (Ram/Minburi).

Recent projects - Blue Lagoon off Bangna/Outer Ring, and Metro Sathorn.

[EvilDrSomkid]

The concept of maintainance does not exist here. Pure and simple.

They just let stuff rot and break. That is the way here.

Same as with cars. That's why you see so many second hand cars for sale. They ALL need work.

They rather spend 4 mil up on a new car than maintain them.

The concept of maintainance does not exist here. Pure and simple. = Wrong.

They just let stuff rot and break. That is the way here. = Wrong again.

Same as with cars. That's why you see so many second hand cars for sale. They ALL need work. = Wrong again.

They rather spend 4 mil up on a new car than maintain them. And guess what, wrong again.

It's like saying ALL Farangs are bigoted a-holes who think they are doing Thailand a huge favor by living here, whilst that tag fits many, its certainly not all.

I was generalizing, you understood that did you not? (Good) Maintainance is exception rather than rule.

[MrsMills]

What part of Thailand are you referring to, Bkk, Pattaya, South, Chiang Mai or?

Pattaya, Ban Chang (where I live) and Bangkok. I can't imagine anywhere else being much different since I've visited a lot of estates and driven down many soi over the past week, and none of them were cheap, at least to begin with.

Rather limiting yourself to the Patters-Bangers region, yes?

I guess so, but are other regions so different? Is neglect a feature only of the particular areas I've visited? I don't think that the Rayong and Pattaya area is below average as far as wealth goes. I have unfortunate friends in Bangkok that have experienced the same situation: buying or building fine houses on new estates 6 - 7 years ago only now to be stuck on what are really sink estates. I've experienced the same with condos and even Hotels that we've returned to after a couple of years only to find they have entirely changed. I really seems that in Thailand new is good, but anything else is more often than not much less than good. Only my observation though.

Some nice well maintained older condo units in Wong Amat beach area.

[bonobo]

I have been pretty amazed at the lack of quality of homes built here. I have looked extensively on the Thonburi side of the river, and while the new homes look nice, home over 5 years old are really run down. One major problem is that the soil sinks and the home pads crack. I found a beautiful home for a reasonable price near Bang Khae, but I noticed that the rooms on one side of the house had floors which sloped a bit. I called in an engineer, and I was told that half the house was signficantly higher than the other house, and to fix it , it would cost about 3,000,000 baht. What happened was half the house settled while the other half didn't.

The other thing which surprised me is that people don't seem to get their house ready to show when they have it up for sale. I have been in houses with children's scrawling on all the walls, dead birds on the floors, no yardwork, etc.

Being an American where home improvements are almost a religion, this is a huge culture shock to me.