South Vs North

[awarrumbungle]

My girlfriend was born in the NE.

We have travelled extensively in Thailand.

We now live in the South.

She's has developed an insecurity about her roots (coming from the NE)

I have witnessed and understood (racist/jealous remarks about the both of us to our face and behind our backs)

Last years students used to pay out on NE N Laos and Myanmar an awful lot (this years don't when I told them about Thailands poor English scores in SE asia)

I have also spoken and read numerous degrading comments about Isaarn etc from farangs.

Tell me.. What is the deal?!

Isaarn is poorer, ok, is that it?

They eat pa-rah but people in the south eat equally weird stuff.

Why is there so much (serious) discrimination? and if so, how do you or your partners deal with it?

[chownah]

I have never seen this prejudice that you are talking about....but then again I haven't seen everything.

[SiamOne]

I would not live in the south as the people are very cruel

OK OK I am just predujiced

[awarrumbungle]

I have given 1 example of this criticism - food. Quite often you will hear or see comments or upturned noses when my girl orders say - somtum pah-rah.

(Ironically they will order it themselves straightafterwards)

A reluctance or refusal to eat anything from the N or NE (quite common - no reason given as to why)

One particular comment, I can't remember it exactly in Thai - but it translates to bread and fish paste. A farang and a NE girl is like bread with fish paste (pah-rah). Money and detritus, is basically what they are alluding to.

Another irony, this is not localised to the sout but anywhere in Thailand even in the NE.

[Diablo Bob]

I am not qualified to answer this topic. But I will anyway, because I can........

I agree, there is racism here in Thailand. There is a prejudice by the government (regardles of party) towards Issan.

Here are a few examples in my opiniom. As you are aware, most of the people in Issan are darker skinned than the rest of the country. Every time you turn on TV, the actors & announcers are all of the "Pale" variety of Thai. Fly on Thai Air, have you ever seen a dark skinned Thai stewardess? If so how often...... My wife being from Buriram is so envious of the light skin that whenever she goes shopping she always tries and sneak some whitening cream into the basket, without me seeing.

Another example is the funding in schools..... the Issan schools lack most of the advancements that schools in Bangkok or Chiangmai might have. A degree from a univrsity in Issan is not treated equally with one from BKK or CNX. Why, well the quality of the education doesn't match! Why, well the funding isn't the same for the schools in Issan, consequently, money is spread thinner by paying less for teachers, Not getting the computer equipment etc.

Now the above examples might not seem extreme or overt. They are not! Most might not even consider the above racism or prejiduce, but they are......

A whole geographical area of Thailand ashamed of their skin color, denied poitions because of skin color. A whole geographical region of parents who want their children to be better off then themselves being given an eductational system which will deny them this goal.

Now on another note, the popularity of Issan music has turned the tables on "whitey" so to speak. This is something that the people of Issan are extremely proud and they can call their own, and can never be taken away from them......

Personally, I LOVE Issan, Buriram in particular. If it wasn't for the sad eduction system, I would be living there rather than Chiangmai.

[awarrumbungle]

Southern people are the darkest Thai people I've seen but it doesn't stop them discriminating.

[Spit the Dog]

I would say it is more of a class issue rather than a racist problem. A rich lighter skinned Issan family will get treated with a lot more respect than a poor darker skinned Issan family.

As Issan is the poorest area in Thailand, they are generally regarded as the lowest class of people in Thailand. That is why most things Issan are looked down upon

[awarrumbungle]

I had a farang laugh at me when I suggest he move to Isaan for a job.... why would he do that?

[Diablo Bob]

Limited night life.......

No Soi Nana, No Pattaya just real people.

[Jai Dee]

I too have travelled extensively throughout Thailand, and my wife (from Isaan) has also experienced the negativity of Southerners...

That is, what she could understand of their dialect anyway...

It's a shame really, because I have never heard or seen an Isaanite make derogatory comments about anyone from another province/ area/ country.

Although in general they may be poor, they are rich within... they are the most open and accepting people in Thailand.

[Scott]

It is sad, but it is true that Issan people are looked down on. They are considered Lao-people and therefore, not "really" Thai. When I taught here in Thailand, I had a 2nd grade teacher who used to make fun of students who did poorly by asking they were from Issan. I politely asked to her to stop doing that (since some students had parents who were from Issan). She did, but just changed it to Lao. I gave up. A bigger problem than I can tackle.

I have made it a point to let a lot of people know that Laos did perform better on the TOEF scores and they really, really don't like that. You will also notice that the PM has decided something has to be done to improve English after that one was released in the papers!

[awarrumbungle]

That article was a godsend!

Just yeterday I was teaching teachers. I was talking to one of them at lunch who told me he was travelling to Los Angeles. I semi-seriously said be careful don't get mugged. He was shocked, a little taken back, so I gave him so practical pointers i.e. don't look up too much etc etc. He then said 'yeah I don't like the negroes' When I tried to enlighten him about the cycle of discimination he gave me a blank look and said once again 'I don't like dark people'..........

All you can do is try and lead by example. But I do try to crack down on anything like thta with my students.

[sbk]

Actually, my husband is from the South and finds Northerners/Central Thais making derogatory remarks about the South as well. For instance, the dialect he speaks.

It is human nature, not just Thailand.

Ask a northern German what they think of Bavarians, ask an American what they think of people from the South, ask English people what they think of people from Yorkshire and the north. etc etc etc.

Discrimination is part and parcel of human nature. I read somewhere that it goes way back to when humans were divided into tribes and it made sense to distrust anyone not of your own tribe.

[meemiathai]

Well said, sbk.

Agreed maak maak.

[Thai_as_a_kite]

Actually, my husband is from the South and finds Northerners/Central Thais making derogatory remarks about the South as well. For instance, the dialect he speaks.

It is human nature, not just Thailand.

Ask a northern German what they think of Bavarians, ask an American what they think of people from the South, ask English people what they think of people from Yorkshire and the north. etc etc etc.

Discrimination is part and parcel of human nature. I read somewhere that it goes way back to when humans were divided into tribes and it made sense to distrust anyone not of your own tribe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its all part of evolution..Come back to LOS in 2000 years and it will be a thing of the past.

[ProfessorFart]

Regional snobbery is not exclusive to Thailand. I'd wager that most countries in the world have a region which the rest of that particula nation look down upon. As far as human nature dictates it tends to be the poorest region of a particular nation which appears to be on the butt end of the snobbery which in Thailand's case is Isaan.

In the past I have often come across Central Thais who will ridicule Isaan Thais as backward hicks before heading off to belt out some Luuk Thung at the local karaoke bar and dive into mountains of Isaan food.

Its a rummy world all right.

[chownah]

Actually, my husband is from the South and finds Northerners/Central Thais making derogatory remarks about the South as well. For instance, the dialect he speaks.

It is human nature, not just Thailand.

Ask a northern German what they think of Bavarians, ask an American what they think of people from the South, ask English people what they think of people from Yorkshire and the north. etc etc etc.

Discrimination is part and parcel of human nature. I read somewhere that it goes way back to when humans were divided into tribes and it made sense to distrust anyone not of your own tribe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its all part of evolution..Come back to LOS in 2000 years and it will be a thing of the past.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great idea....let's see....OK...my calendar is empty for Oct 3, 4005....I'll just write in "Check on racism in Thailand"...that should do it.....thanks again for the great idea.

[Diablo Bob]

Actually, my husband is from the South and finds Northerners/Central Thais making derogatory remarks about the South as well. For instance, the dialect he speaks.

It is human nature, not just Thailand.

Ask a northern German what they think of Bavarians, ask an American what they think of people from the South, ask English people what they think of people from Yorkshire and the north. etc etc etc.

Discrimination is part and parcel of human nature. I read somewhere that it goes way back to when humans were divided into tribes and it made sense to distrust anyone not of your own tribe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe I am misunderstanding your reply.......

There is a distinct difference between Racism & Discrimination. To put it more simply Racism is "I don't like you because your skin is dark!" Discrimination is "You can't get an equal education because you are from Issan!" Let's not confuse the issues'

Where not necessarily liking someone because they are from an area different from your own, doesn't seem to be either Racism nor Discrimination if the unliked has equal benefits, regardless of where they come from.

The comments being made about another group of people aka. Centrals vs. "The rest of Thailand" are actually inconsequential. It is the government policy of excluding the benefits afforded their groups vs. the rest of the country which has consequence. It is the use of skin color to determine if you are fit for the job that is racist and carries consequences that breach not only the economic wealth of a region but the spiritual health of a region.

Please........ spare me the adage "This is Human Nature!" If it is wrong now it surely was wrong then and naturally will be wrong tomorrow.

Ps. I am from the United States and have no problem with the Southerners, its those ###### people from New York City (Don't confuse with NY State) I don't really like..........

[sbk]

I would think you could ask any region outside of Central Thailand if they feel the govt is not giving equal benefits and most would agree.

And whether you like it or not, doesn't mean complaining about it is going to change it. It is human nature, just like complaining

[Sunderland]

It's not a big deal. People make fun of people from other parts of the country in England too. Sometimes it is light hearted and sometimes it can be quite cruel. If you let it bounce off you, people eventually accept you for who you are. If you're a decent person, they will see that.

I don't think Thai people are any more racist than English people were 20 years ago. Many areas of Thailand are still catching up with Bangkok, let alone the rest of the world. Let evolution work its magic.

[chownah]

I went out and googled for a definition of 'racism' and most of the definitions (there were probably more than 10) talked about races but a couple of them just talked about people with different colors or physical characteristics.

My opinion is that if someone speaks badly of all Thai people from anywhere in Thailand who have dark skin then that is racism.

My opinion is that if someone speaks badly of all Thai people from Isaan regardless of their color then that is ethnocentrism.

Seems to me that the Thai people who speak poorly of Thais from Isaan probably think that Tiger Woods is a cool guy...if they were racist then they would not.

[sbk]

Somehow, I think they talk about Tiger Woods as a cool guy because he's rich, successful and talented.

True, I suspect the OP mistakes bigotry for racism. But, when you look at it they are both just variations on a theme.

Bigot:

One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

n : a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own

Racim: 1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

[chownah]

Certainly it is Tiger Woods' money and success that creates the admiration....if some Isaan person is rich and successful then would Thais admire him/her too....if so then what is really the basis for the disparaging attitude. I think its good to analyze these things because if you can get down to the actual prejudice then its more likely to find an answer to the problem....or at least understanding the problem.

[CarlBkk]

The vast majority of Thais will look down on Thais from other regions and folk from neighbouring countries. I can't think of many neighbouring countries in the world which actually have a pleasant history and generally "like" each other even now either. The difference is that I think a lot of Thais can be pretty cruel and blatant about it...especially Bangkokians.

Each region of Thailand has it's own generally acknowledged characteristics of the people, more or less divided into the South, Bangkok, Isan, the North. I've known Bangkokians being classed as overly Westernised, materialistic, impolite, non-ethnic Thais. I've known Southerners being classed as hot-hearted, crafty and tough. I've seen Isan Thais being branded either as less-attractive low-class bargirl or gold-digging types (especially those coming from Korat, Buri Ram, Roi Et, Ubon, Khon Kaen) and the remainder having the reputation as Lao, simple lives and possibly lazy. The only region I don't hear many opinions on either way are the Northerners!

I can see why the regional descrimination exists from some people samples: A fair few people (myself included) have experience of the aforementioned attributes of Southerners both socially and professionally. It's a massive generalisation but regional people do have different positive and negative attributes. Where are the majority of prostitutes in BKK originally from and what colour skin do they have? What facial features? Thais know it and that's when reputations are formed. Some Thais will also admit that a true Isan person is incredibly humble, gentle and kind-hearted...but you have to dig deep to find that admission. Unfortunately we as foreigners tend to be associated with the lower class of Isan women who came to the city to find $$$ and we're less attracted to the born and bred Bangkok woman copying the Western ways and looking to be treated like a Princess.

[Guest endure]

Actually, my husband is from the South and finds Northerners/Central Thais making derogatory remarks about the South as well. For instance, the dialect he speaks.

It is human nature, not just Thailand.

Ask a northern German what they think of Bavarians, ask an American what they think of people from the South, ask English people what they think of people from Yorkshire and the north. etc etc etc.

Discrimination is part and parcel of human nature. I read somewhere that it goes way back to when humans were divided into tribes and it made sense to distrust anyone not of your own tribe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe I am misunderstanding your reply.......

There is a distinct difference between Racism & Discrimination. To put it more simply Racism is "I don't like you because your skin is dark!"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is that right? It's only possible to be a racist if you have light skin? It's not possible to say "I don't like you because your skin is white" and be a racist?

[Narachon]

Actually, my husband is from the South and finds Northerners/Central Thais making derogatory remarks about the South as well. For instance, the dialect he speaks.

It is human nature, not just Thailand.

Ask a northern German what they think of Bavarians, ask an American what they think of people from the South, ask English people what they think of people from Yorkshire and the north. etc etc etc.

Discrimination is part and parcel of human nature. I read somewhere that it goes way back to when humans were divided into tribes and it made sense to distrust anyone not of your own tribe.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your reply.......

There is a distinct difference between Racism & Discrimination. To put it more simply Racism is "I don't like you because your skin is dark!"

Is that right? It's only possible to be a racist if you have light skin? It's not possible to say "I don't like you because your skin is white" and be a racist?

That would be true If the majority population were dark/black skinned and had historicaly had economic, social, etc. power over the minority light /white skinned population. Unfortunately, because of special geographic factors in the development of socieites ( read Jared Diamond's Pulitzer Prize book, "Guns Germs, and Steel " ) this is rarely the case thoughout the world....

[Narachon]

Ps. I am from the United States and have no problem with the Southerners, its those ###### people from New York City (Don't confuse with NY State) I don't really like.......... 

And where pray tell are YOU from?

[Guest endure]

Actually, my husband is from the South and finds Northerners/Central Thais making derogatory remarks about the South as well. For instance, the dialect he speaks.

It is human nature, not just Thailand.

Ask a northern German what they think of Bavarians, ask an American what they think of people from the South, ask English people what they think of people from Yorkshire and the north. etc etc etc.

Discrimination is part and parcel of human nature. I read somewhere that it goes way back to when humans were divided into tribes and it made sense to distrust anyone not of your own tribe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe I am misunderstanding your reply.......

There is a distinct difference between Racism & Discrimination. To put it more simply Racism is "I don't like you because your skin is dark!"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is that right? It's only possible to be a racist if you have light skin? It's not possible to say "I don't like you because your skin is white" and be a racist?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That would be true If the majority population were dark/black skinned and had historicaly had economic, social, etc. power over the minority light /white skinned population. Unfortunately, because of special geographic factors in the development of socieites ( read Jared Diamond's Pulitzer Prize book, "Guns Germs, and Steel " ) this is rarely the case thoughout the world....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to tell you that I have no interest whatever in the opinions of Pulitzer Prize winning authors. As far as I'm concerned "I don't like you because your skin is dark!", "I don't like you because your skin is white!" and "I don't like you because your skin is a different colour than mine!" are all racist.

[Narachon]

Actually, my husband is from the South and finds Northerners/Central Thais making derogatory remarks about the South as well. For instance, the dialect he speaks.

It is human nature, not just Thailand.

Ask a northern German what they think of Bavarians, ask an American what they think of people from the South, ask English people what they think of people from Yorkshire and the north. etc etc etc.

Discrimination is part and parcel of human nature. I read somewhere that it goes way back to when humans were divided into tribes and it made sense to distrust anyone not of your own tribe.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your reply.......

There is a distinct difference between Racism & Discrimination. To put it more simply Racism is "I don't like you because your skin is dark!"

Is that right? It's only possible to be a racist if you have light skin? It's not possible to say "I don't like you because your skin is white" and be a racist?

That would be true If the majority population were dark/black skinned and had historicaly had economic, social, etc. power over the minority light /white skinned population. Unfortunately, because of special geographic factors in the development of socieites ( read Jared Diamond's Pulitzer Prize book, "Guns Germs, and Steel " ) this is rarely the case thoughout the world....

I have to tell you that I have no interest whatever in the opinions of Pulitzer Prize winning authors. As far as I'm concerned "I don't like you because your skin is dark!", "I don't like you because your skin is white!" and "I don't like you because your skin is a different colour than mine!" are all racist.

Very enlightened reply....

[CarlBkk]

He's right though. You don't have to be in the economically stronger majority to be the only segment accused of racism. Racism is simply one person disliking a group of people based on skin colour and/or nationality, whichever way round it is. Can you be racist towards your own countryfolk (as per the topic) if they have different physical characterists, discriminatory or neither?