Coming to Thailand

[JimGant]

Pib, if I recall correctly, you have a Capital One debit/atm card...? And now you're awaiting another Visa debit card as back-up to your Schwab card.

What happened to Capital One? Daily limit too low? MC/Cirrus definitely inferior to Visa?

I was just about ready to apply for a Capital One...

[JimGant]

With SCB I do not get receiving end fees....(wire transfer)

Well, from another forum:

Siam Commercial Bank advised me yesterday that their fees for an International Money Transfer were 0.25% of the amount transferred (to a maximum of 500 Baht).

Like with Bangkok Bank, this fee is probably not even highlighted -- but can be discerned by subtracting what you got from what you would have gotten using strictly the TT buying rate.

But, understandably, you got tired of getting nicked several times a month each time a direct deposit passed thru the ACH system to Bangkok Bank. Accumulating these deposits in a US account, then once a month sending to Thailand -- is a cost-effective method. Plus, it gives control over amounts to send -- or not to send -- to Thailand.

However, since SCB does appear to have the same receiving fees as Bangkok Bank, you would have been better-off keeping your Bangkok Bank account, then ACHing your required monthly inflow, rather than wiring it. You would save at least $15 -- and maybe even $20, if your monthly inflow was $2000 or less.

[Langsuan Man]

Pib, if I recall correctly, you have a Capital One debit/atm card...? And now you're awaiting another Visa debit card as back-up to your Schwab card.

What happened to Capital One? Daily limit too low? MC/Cirrus definitely inferior to Visa?

I was just about ready to apply for a Capital One...

Don't, I too fell for the Capitol One debit / ATM card program but they changed from the Plus network to the Cirrus network thus making their use at AEON ATM's a non starter. Unfortunately that was half the advantage of Capital One. The other was you don't pay any foreign transaction fee (1%) You will now pay the 150 THB fee at all Thai ATM's using their ATM / Debit Card

[jfchandler]

Jim, re SCB and their fees, I recall doing some research a while back into Thai bank fees, and was surprised at the broad uniformity I found in many categories... for manydifferent things, exactly the same fees at all of the major Thai banks. I'm assuming that's because of some BOT rules or influence, but maybe it's just collusion... I don't know the reason.

But when I was checking, it seemed to be every Thai bank where I could find the info had the same 0.25% commission, minimum 200 and maximum 500 baht, for incoming international funds transfers... We talk about the BKK Bank rate more because of their NY Branch transfer service. But for regular wires that all of the banks receive, they handle those exactly the same in terms of fees...

And, as for Cap One, it's a bit more complicated than explained above... They're still a very good option in a couple ways, and I'm sure Pib will come along to add on this....

On the good side, Cap One's VISA credit cards remain among the few that have no foreign currency fee, period. So for a U.S. credit card abroad, they're one of the best.

Also on the good side, for some types of their accounts, Cap One still issues VISA or MC logo debit cards that should work fine in AEON ATMs because of their VISA/MC logo... And again, no foreign currency fee. Pib has one of those cards/accounts, and it's a checking account that, as I recall, also reimburses up to $10 per mo. in foreign ATM fees.

On the bad side, for other types of their accounts where the Cap One card is a straight ATM card (NO VISA or MC logo), Cap One's recent change to use the Cirrus network has meant that those straight ATM cards will no longer work with AEON ATMs.... because AEON machines don't accept CIRRUS logo cards.

The difference, as I recall, has to do with where a person's U.S. home residence is located, and in particular, in the area of existing Cap One brick and mortar branches or distant from them.

If a person lives away from one of their branches, they'll allow you to open an online checking account that comes with the VISA/MC logo debit card and works fine with AEON.

But if a person has their residence in the area of one of their physical branches, then they won't allow you to open online the same kind of account, and the accounts you can open online (like their Money Market account) only come with the straight ATM card that now won't work with AEON, but does work fine with the Citibank ATMs at Asoke and Sukhumvit, which also have no 150 baht fee.

When a person goes to the Cap One web site, it will demand that you enter your home zip code. And then, based on that, will show you the types of online accounts that are available to you. If you live near any of Cap One's branches, the online checking account with the VISA/MC debit card will be absent/not listed.

Edited May 3, 2011 by jfchandler

[Pib]

Pib, if I recall correctly, you have a Capital One debit/atm card...? And now you're awaiting another Visa debit card as back-up to your Schwab card.

What happened to Capital One? Daily limit too low? MC/Cirrus definitely inferior to Visa?

I was just about ready to apply for a Capital One...

Jim,

I got a Capital One Mastercard No Hassle Cash Rewards "credit card.' It's Great!!!! Been using it since mid January. The card has no foreign transaction fee. It provides 2% cash back reward on gas & groceries; 1% on everything else. You earn this cash back percentage from day one; no waiting until you reach some yearly annual purchase amount and until you reach that amount you get a much lower percentage. What's really great is I get 2% cash back for purchases at Lotus, Big C, Carrefour, Foodland, fuel stations, etc...and this 2% is on purchase of anything within the stories...not just groceries....I even get 2% on my Chang beer buys...life is good.

My sister in the States recently got her Cap One No Hassle credit card and she gets 2% all her Walmart buys, regardless of what she buys in the store...she loves the card. She has now destroyed her Discover card which had great hype as a cash back card but when you look at the cash back fine print/details you only early 0.25% until you reach at the $3000 annual spending point then you start earning 1%...but your $3000 requirements resets annually which means a lot of yearly buying only earns 0.25%. Discover really ain't a very good cash back card anymore....they use to be about 5 years ago, but no more. She also said her Bank of America Visa credit card is soon heading for very infrequent use or she may just cancel it because its cash back program has slowly deteriorated. Preaching to the choir when saying, banks/credit cards/companies can go from good to bad (or vice versa)....a person always needs to be shopping around for the best services/products.

The Cap One card has all the extra cash back bonuses like many cards, like earning an additional 5% cash back (or more) on purchases from certain retailer promotions. I've used the Cap One Mastercard at many different stores/shops/restaurants/medical clinic/etc., in/around Bangkok for many different types of products/services for over 3 months now; no problem at all. The transaction exchange rate provided by Mastercard falls between the TT Buying Rate and Sight Bill Rate. I just checked the Bangkok Bank exchange page and Mastercard exchange rate pages. The Bangkok Bank TT Buying rate was 29.76 and Sight Bill Rate 29.66; the Mastercard exchange rate was 29.70. Once again, the card charges no foreign transaction fee. Two versions of the card are available, one with no annual fee for people with excellent credit (I'm lucky enough to have this one) and one with a $39 annual fee for average credit...the card for average credit comes with a higher interest rate, but if a person pays off their bill monthly that's a non-player. You can set the cash back reward to be issued out annually, at the $25-$100 points, or pretty much whenever you choose after $25. I set mine to automatically provide a cash credit to my card account when I reach a $25 cash back credit....already got two $25 credits...now working on my third. Here the link to the Cap One card: http://www.capitalon..._01_T_CP77603EW

Regarding no foreign transaction fee "debit" card, I use the Schwab Visa debit card with a $1000 daily limit, which is more than enough for day-to-day living. A couple ATM withdrawals per month keeps me happy, bills paid, and beer in the frig. And I can deposit some of the ATM withdrawals in my Thai bank account to keep a certain minimum, emergency level there and when I need to use my Bangkok Bank debit card. Sure wish I could withdraw $1000 daily and not run my bank account dry; but no, I would be broke quick at that withdrawal rate. I'm hoping to get another Visa debit card from another U.S. bank in case Schwab ever changes it's no foreign transaction fee policy....I should know this week or next if that application gets approved.

Between use of the Cap One Mastercard credit card and Schwab Visa debit card, I now purchase things pretty much like I did when living in the States. That is, flip out the card to pay for most things, earn cash back, helps in building/maintaining your credit report score, and at the end of the month pay the card bills in full....no interest payment. It has greatly cut back on my need to use periodic SWIFT/ACH transfers as my credit card bill is paid in dollars from my US bank account and my day-to-day baht cash needs is provided via the Schwab debit card through ATM withdrawals. My ACH links to Bangkok Bank are now pretty much for sending a big chunk of money within a few business days in case I need to do a big buy. But since I'm pretty much settled in now in terms of having my home setup/furnished and my car bought, I really don't have a need to do any ACH transfer short of some emergency requiring BIG bucks arriving within a few days.

Note: if having a choice in getting a Visa or Mastercard, whether it's a ATM, debit card, or credit card, the Visa card provides an exchange rate a little better than Thai bank TT Buying rate (approx 0.1 baht/USD on the average) and the Mastercard a little less than the TT Buying Rate (approx 0.05/USD on the average).

Definitely apply for the card. I applied for mine via phone since their online system couldn't handle an APO address, but over the phone no problem. Plus I had several questions I wanted to ask before apply. So far, I'm very pleased with the card....the no foreign transaction fee and cash back is great!

Cheers,

Pib

[Pib]

Also on the good side, for some types of their accounts, Cap One still issues VISA or MC logo debit cards that should work fine in AEON ATMs because of their VISA/MC logo... And again, no foreign currency fee. Pib has one of those cards/accounts, and it's a checking account that, as I recall, also reimburses up to $10 per mo. in foreign ATM fees.

JFC,

No, I didn't end up getting a Cap One bank account with debit card; I only have their credit card. Since their online system couldn't handle APO addresses I called up about a month ago and tried to apply for a bank account over the phone like I did for their credit card, but the particular rep I was talking to said I would need an address physically within the 50 United States. Now I know there are ways to overcome that and I may try again in the near future. But getting their credit card only using my APO address via phone application was no problem at all. Definitely different rules relating to applying for bank accounts and credit cards; and actually banks have completely different business units for their banking and credit card operations. But right now I have a application in the works with another bank which will hopefully work out and provide that second no foreign transaction fee Visa debit card with ATM reimbursement. I'm keeping my fingers crossed...should now semi-soon...as the bank and I have been mailing bank account application-related forms back and forth to each other. Definitely faster to apply online "if possible" but it's usually the address thing and sometimes the detected IP address that can cause issues. This is just another lesson to me regarding how I thought I was setup pretty good banking-wise with free ACH transfers for retirement to Thailand....but a person soon learns funds transfer fees can add up, getting a Unsecured Thai credit card without a work permit can be challenging, and security/consumer protection associated with Thai bank accounts/credit cards/debit/ATM cards has its shortcomings. Preaching to the choir I know.

Cheers,

Pib

[jfchandler]

Excellent posts and good information, Pib... And thanks for clarifying your result with the Cap One debit card...

That said, what I mentioned earlier is correct. Cap One does offer a MC logo debit card with no foreign currency fee that will work fine in AEON ATMs... It's via their Interest Online Checking account, and possibly some other accounts as well. But as I mentioned, only those with a residence address NOT located where Cap One has physical branches can apply for that account online.

And, as Pib alluded to above, Cap One is particularly finicky about their account holders using and maintaining a U.S. account address.

The MC above will be a Cirrus network card on the back...but because it's also a MC logo card, will work fine with AEON.

Cap One also may have changed their language relating to ATM fee reimbursements on this account. I thought it was $10 per month, but now I see a higher limit.

^† Fees assessed at any ATM within the United States and at some ATMs located outside the United States will be reimbursed within 5 business days, up to $25 per statement period.

Edited May 3, 2011 by jfchandler

[jfchandler]

BTW, on a related topic, apparently there's a new J.D. Power customer satisfaction survey out on U.S. retail banks.... Guess where Bank of America ranks among customers in pretty much every region of the country? Along with some company from Chase.

http://www.clarkhowa...l-banks-/nCXK4/

The links to the specific bank-by-bank results divided by state/region are located here:

http://www.jdpower.c...anking-ratings/

And here's a screen cap of the results for customers/banks in Cali...

Edited May 3, 2011 by jfchandler

[Pib]

Bank of America sure has went down hill over the last several years....they got greedy...but I'm sure they just call it good business. They should rename Bank of America to Fees R Us.

[Jingthing]

OK, FYI, Suntrust's daily transfer limit out using this method is 2000 dollars (with a $3 fee each time). So is Citibank at a daily 2K limit. Now I get the issue with fees. So each 2K transfer gets hit with fees on both ends (not sure about the out fee from Citibank). Lovely. SWIFT is looking better for larger chunks. However, I really do like having MULTIPLE transfer options at the ready in case one or two of them suddenly goes sour. Thanks again.

Can anyone say what the daily transfer limit is from etrade for these kinds of transfers? 2,000 is really too low.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Jingthing

[jfchandler]

Jing, as I believe I mentioned above, the brokerage related bank providers tend to have higher limits on ACH transfers... But even among regular banks, those amounts you mention are VERY low...

In looking at the E*Trade web site, I see the following:

Quick Transfer has an aggregate limit of $100,000.00 per day for transfer to/from accounts at external institutions.

I'm sure Schwab has a higher limit as well on its bank accounts.

[Pib]

..... But even among regular banks, those amounts you mention are VERY low...

They sure are low!...and they charge a ACH fee!

Even evil Bank of America allows up to a $10K transfer with a $3 ACH fee (but you'll also need their SafePass card which you can get...no SafePass card then you are limited to $1000 per transfer...if in the States you could also get a SafePass SMS to complete the transfer instead of having a SafePass card). USAA allows up to $5000 with no fee, and you can get that limit raised by sending them a letter requesting a permanent increase. Can't remember what the exact Schwab brokerage/checking/savings online ACH limits are (no ACH fee); but they are large amounts.

SWIFT would rarely be a cost saver over ACH, unless you had some type of premier account (usually with big bucks deposited) where they gave free or low cost SWIFT transfers. Almost always, a SWIFT transfer has a pricey sending bank fee.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Pib

[JimGant]

JFC and Pib -- many thanks for the data dump. Very helpful.

the Visa card provides an exchange rate a little better than Thai bank TT Buying rate (approx 0.1 baht/USD on the average) and the Mastercard a little less than the TT Buying Rate (approx 0.05/USD on the average).

Yeah, the discrepancy between MC/Cirrus and Visa/PLUS exchange rates had been noted on another thread -- and personally noted, as I have both a Visa and a MC credit card.

Ok. The Capital One MC debit/ATM card, with a $10 reimbursement cap, is a loser -- for me -- compared to ACHing $10,000 periodically, and using my Bangkok Bank ATM card:

With BB's TT buying rate at 29.78, my effective rate, after the $10 front fee, and 500 baht back fee, is 29.70. The Capital One rate, per Pib's data, would be 29.73. So, with four pulls of 25,000 baht each -- what I've averaged lately each month -- I'd be better off with Capital One to the the tune of 100 baht (25 baht per pull), assuming the ATM fees are reimbursed. (AEON is not an option -- I'm too far away, so the cost of gas makes it prohibitive, not to mention the inconvenience. And, it violates rule #1: if the ATM machine breaks/eats your card, make sure it's the machine attached to your local bank.)

But, if the cap for ATM reimbursements is $10/mo, I'll have to eat the last two pulls -- or 300 baht. Thus, a net loss of 200 baht per month with the Capital One MC debit/ATM card.

Now, using the same example,the Schwab Visa debit/ATM card, which would get me the Interbank Exchange Rate, or 29.88, would be 600 baht better per month over ACHing. And, apparently, I would be reimbursed the over $20 in ATM fees (600 baht for four pulls). So, yeah, Schwab would be worth looking into. (Interestingly, it just a coincidence the per pull 150 baht advantage is equivalent to the ATM fee. So, if Schwab canceled their reimbursement policy, it would be a wash between Schwab and ACH.)

Now, the Capital One MC credit card looks like a winner, as the cash back feature more than makes up for the less-favorable MC/Cirrus exchange rate.

So, Pib, I'd say you have the winning combination (anyone disagree?). Oh, what about using a Thai home address -- and if not, what about an agent address, like USA2ME?

Thanx.

[Jingthing]

What about Wells Fargo? What's their ACH fee and daily limit per transfer?

[Pib]

Can't speak to the Thai addresss thing or USA2ME as I use my APO address. Hopefully others with such experience can. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

[jfchandler]

Jim, if you look at my post #67 above, you'll see that Cap One appears to have increased their monthly ATM reimbursement limit on their Interest Online Checking account -- the one with the MC logo debit card -- to up to $25 -- not the $10 you mention and I remember from the past when I perused their account info.

Also, as I noted above, Cap One is very finicky about account holders having/using a U.S. address of record. They're definitely non-friendly to anyone trying to use a non-U.S. address... I believe the USA2Me type approach ought to work OK.

JFC and Pib -- many thanks for the data dump. Very helpful.

Edited May 3, 2011 by jfchandler

[JimGant]

Jim, if you look at my post #67 above, you'll see that Cap One appears to have increased their monthly ATM reimbursement limit on their Interest Online Checking account -- the one with the MC logo debit card -- to up to $25 -- not the $10 you mention and I remember from the past when I perused their account info.

Sounds like the reimbursement of ATM fees is very competitive -- which bodes well that it won't go away.

But, the 100 baht per month I'd "earn" by switching to Cap One hasn't lit a fire. Now, 600 baht from Schwab sounds like real money, especially when annualized. However, I'm still feeding off the last batch of ACH cash, that had an effective rate of 30.21. So, with the dollar going south, ACH is currently superior. And with "democracy for dummies" seemingly in play, ACH may remain superior for a long time.

However, Schwab's debit/ATM card does look interesting.

Oh, are Schwab's reimbursements "automatic," or do I have to send in ATM receipts?

Thanx.

[jfchandler]

Schwab is automatic at month's end on ATM fee reimbursements with their High Yield Checking account. No sending in of ATM receipts.

They say that if they ever miss a legitimate one, that you can call their CSR and they will correct it.

I've heard few if any complaints over the years of how Schwab has handled this, so I'd presume their system works pretty well.

And their debit card is a VISA logo card, meaning it also has a slight edge over its MC competitors.

They also don't charge the 1% card networks fee...making it quite a good package.

BTW, in my experience, I don't think you should assume that the normal exchange rate for the Cap One MC either credit or debit card is going to be less than the BKK Bank buying TT rate.

That's not been my experience. It's true that the MC logo cards, all else being equal, do have a slightly lower exchange rate than their VISA counterparts. But in my experience, the MC logo cards (the ones with no foreign currency or card network surcharges) usually seem to beat BKK Bank by just a tad, or at least be equal.

And, since Cap One appears now to be doing up to $25 per mo in ATM fee reimbursements, that would cover 5 Thai bank ATM withdrawals per month....

Though I'd add the caveat, I have no personal experience with Cap One's international ATM fee reimbursements from their MC debit card, so I can only point to and speak on what their web site says, and my experience with some other MC logo cards.

Edited May 3, 2011 by jfchandler

[JimGant]

JFC, would you choose the Schwab debit/ATM card over the Cap One debit/ATM card? I would assume so. But if not -- or if a close race -- why not?

To me, it's a 'no brainer.'

[jfchandler]

Jim, if I only was going to choose ONE, I'd pick Schwab of course....because of it being a VISA logo debit card with a slightly better exchange rate than MC, unlimited ATM fee reimbursements, an established track record of being good about that, and the ability having the checking account gives to get a free/no minimums Schwab brokerage account (that automatically comes with their checking account).

But if I was eligible for the Cap One checking account based on my residence not being where Cap One has physical bank branches, then I'd get and keep BOTH...because it never hurts to have multiple options... And you never know when some bank is going to change their fees/policies/procedures in a way that is not favorable for the customer. And with the Cap One account, there are basically no account minimum or usage requirements.

However, FYI, Cap One does have branches around the USA2Me area, so that rules out the combination of those two.

JFC, would you choose the Schwab debit/ATM card over the Cap One debit/ATM card? I would assume so. But if not -- or if a close race -- why not?

To me, it's a 'no brainer.'

[Langsuan Man]

OK, for all these Capital One proponents, How does one guarantee that you get the MC logo debit card that will work in AEON ATMS ?

When you talk to Capital One they continually cloud the issue with the terms ATM card and Debit Card, they treat them as being different things

Dear Valued Direct Banking Customer,

Thank you for your message. Capital One does not offer a debit card for your Money Market account. You currently have an ATM card which will only allow you to make cash withdrawals from an ATM. You will not be able to make purchases or deposits using this ATM card. You are able to use your ATM card at any Cirrus network.

Thank you for choosing Capital One Direct Banking.

Can anyone decipher Capital one speak ?

[Pib]

They are different. Some accounts will come with only a ATM card and other accounts will come with a Debit card.

ATM cards are used to withdraw cash (you can't make a purchase with them like with a debit or credit card). Some ATM cards don't even have a Visa/Mastercard logo on the front, but a logo/name on the back of the card. Usually these cards come with Money Market and Savings accounts because you are limited to six withdrawals per month by banking regulations...Money Market and Savings accounts are primarily meant for saving money, getting a higher rate of interest, etc., and not to be used for frequent cash withdrawals, cash transfers like ACH out transfers, etc. That is, you have basically parked your money/won't move you money around much/won't pull money out often, etc., in order to earn a higher rate of interest than you get with a checking account. Usually you don't even get checks issued with a Money Market/Savings account; only an ATM card.

Debit cards can be used to withdraw cash and make purchases like a credit card (when making a debit card purchase the money is immediately pulled from your bank account; not enough money in the account, then the purchase transaction will be disapproved). Well, it may go through if you have overdraft protection on your account, but you will be paying the bank a healthy overdraft fee. Usually a debit card (and checks) are issued with a Checking account (lower rate of interest than a Savings/Money Market) and there are usually no limits on the number of debit card cash withdrawals, except a daily limit. Basically, you could withdraw your daily limit over and over until the account is drained.

Additionally, when you visit a ATM machine you will notice most of them have funds network logo's all over them like Visa, Mastercard, Cirrus, etc. If your ATM card "only" works on a Cirrus network, then the ATM you are using has to interface with the Cirrus network; otherwise, the card won't work in the ATM. Now, if your Cirrus card "also" had the Mastercard or Visa logo on it, usually on the front and back, this means it should work in ATM that use the Cirrus, Mastercard, Visa networks. If the ATM didn't use the Cirrus network it would just use the Visa/Mastercard network to complete your transaction. Now, I think Cirrus is owned by Mastercard, but Cirrus is still run as a separate company from Mastercard. I think the Cirrus network primarily (not totally) focuses on money transfer transactions while Mastercard/Visa/etc., primarily focuses on purchase transactions but Mastercard/Visa may still interface with the Cirrus network to accomplish the transaction....it's like a big spider web in how they inter connect with each other.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Pib

[jfchandler]

Pib's correct... And, if you look at the Cap One web site, to me it's pretty clear...

Their Interest Online checking account provides a MC logo debit card, and they even show a photo of one at the top of the account info page. Their savings and MMA accounts, unfortunately, get non logo ATM only cards.

And, I do know that AEON ATMs will accept MC logo/Cirrus debit cards because I have exactly those same profile cards from other banks and have used them fine with AEON.

It's only CIRRUS logo ATM-ONLY cards (no VISA or MC logo) where AEON will be out of bounds.

BTW, I'm not "advocating" the Cap One checking account. Just pointing out that it's a legitimate option, PROVIDED, one is eligible for it based on having a residence NOT where Cap One has physical branches.

PS - Pib, although this details always gives me a headache, I believe the federal restriction about a maximum of six withdrawals per month on MMA accounts does NOT include ATM withdrawals... but does include other kinds.

Edited May 4, 2011 by jfchandler

[Langsuan Man]

Thank you Pib. My confusion is because I had an ATM card that used to work with AEON, but stopped working due to their change from Plus to Cirrus

Before I close the Money Market account, I needed to know what type of account to open to get a debit card which will work with AEON ATM's ( at least till the next change)

[OriginalPoster]

Thank you Pib. My confusion is because I had an ATM card that used to work with AEON, but stopped working due to their change from Plus to Cirrus

Before I close the Money Market account, I needed to know what type of account to open to get a debit card which will work with AEON ATM's ( at least till the next change)

Another option is a Fidelity MySmart account. While the plan literature says that they may dock the interbank exchange rate by 1% on ATM withdrawals, in practice they don't. The also reimburse the 150 Baht ATM fee. Previously the ATM fee wasn't being credited automatically and you had to call them to straighten it out. But they seem to have fixed that, and now at most it takes a couple of days after the transaction before the fee is rebated.

[jfchandler]

Another option is a Fidelity MySmart account. While the plan literature says that they may dock the interbank exchange rate by 1% on ATM withdrawals, in practice they don't. The also reimburse the 150 Baht ATM fee. Previously the ATM fee wasn't being credited automatically and you had to call them to straighten it out. But they seem to have fixed that, and now at most it takes a couple of days after the transaction before the fee is rebated.

That's an interesting comment, OP.... Can you post any specific ATM withdrawal details (date, baht and dollar amount debited) that support that notion?

In most respects, the Fidelity account has many of the same advantages as the Schwab account does... except.... for a long time.... Fidelity has been very explicit about charging the 1% card network fee on use of their ATM card overseas... It would be curious for them to have consistently said that on their web site account info, and then not be doing it in practice...

Although, back in history, I recall a similar situation with E*Trade, where they said they were doing something on their web site, but then in practice, they weren't charging that fee... And then a couple years later, they actually did start charging the 1% fee, and still do now.

[jfchandler]

By the way, one of the banking blogs that I follow had an item the other day about a promo Cap One is running at their branches in Texas, and I'm mentioning it here because the blog entry has a list of the states where Cap One has physical branches. Thus people who live/have residence addresses near those branches aren't eligible to apply online for Cap One's Online Interest Checking account, the one that includes the no foreign currency fee MC debit card...

Capital One Bank branches are located in Texas, Louisiana, Maryland, Washington DC, Virginia, Delaware, New Jersey, Connecticut and New York.

Capital One Bank has two FDIC charters. Capital One Bank branches are under Capital One, N.A. (FDIC Certificate # 4297). Direct Banking is under Capital One Bank (USA), N.A. (FDIC Certificate # 33954).

Capital One, N.A. is a large bank with $126.9 billion in assets. It has an overall health score at DepositAccounts.com of 4 stars (out of 5) with a Texas Ratio of 10.27% (above average) based on December 2010 data. Please refer to our financial overview of Capital One, N.A. for more details.

[OriginalPoster]

Another option is a Fidelity MySmart account. While the plan literature says that they may dock the interbank exchange rate by 1% on ATM withdrawals, in practice they don't. The also reimburse the 150 Baht ATM fee. Previously the ATM fee wasn't being credited automatically and you had to call them to straighten it out. But they seem to have fixed that, and now at most it takes a couple of days after the transaction before the fee is rebated.

That's an interesting comment, OP.... Can you post any specific ATM withdrawal details (date, baht and dollar amount debited) that support that notion?

In most respects, the Fidelity account has many of the same advantages as the Schwab account does... except.... for a long time.... Fidelity has been very explicit about charging the 1% card network fee on use of their ATM card overseas... It would be curious for them to have consistently said that on their web site account info, and then not be doing it in practice...

Although, back in history, I recall a similar situation with E*Trade, where they said they were doing something on their web site, but then in practice, they weren't charging that fee... And then a couple years later, they actually did start charging the 1% fee, and still do now.

Sure. Some recent ATM transactions on the Fidelity card were as follows:

Date $USD Baht Exc Rate

2011/04/19 499.49 15000.00 30.0306

2011/04/20 499.81 15000.00 30.0114

2011/04/21 501.49 15000.00 29.9109

2011/04/22 503.17 15000.00 29.8110

BTW, I tried once doing a cash advance against the same Fidelity Card at a Kasikorn currency exchange booth. In that case they did dock the interbank rate by 1%.

[jfchandler]

Sure. Some recent ATM transactions on the Fidelity card were as follows:

Date Exc Rate BOT IER X-Rates

2011/04/19 30.0306 30.119 30.0601

2011/04/20 30.0114 30.014 29.9497

2011/04/21 29.9109 29.913 29.9102

2011/04/22 29.8110 29.929 N/A

BTW, I tried once doing a cash advance against the same Fidelity Card at a Kasikorn currency exchange booth. In that case they did dock the interbank rate by 1%.

Thanks very much for posting that info, OP.. Those are indeed good rates for a VISA logo card, and would indicate no 1% card network fee is being charged by Fidelity on foreign ATM transactions. I added two common exchange rate reference points to your numbers to show the comparisons, the daily Interbank Exchange Rate averages posted by the Bank of Thailand, and the daily Thai baht-U.S. dollar exchange rates posted by X-Rates.com.

Interestingly, the FlyerGuide web site that recaps foreign currency fees on various credit cards and debit cards still says there is...

MySmart Cash account waives $1 fee and reimburses ATM-owner fees [34]. 1% fee is included in the exchange rate, so appears that there is no fee, but it’s there.

However, your data above suggests otherwise... so that's very good to hear...

Equally interestingly, when I was looking about, I came across a bulletin board from another country discussing the Fidelity card... And one poster there said they had called PNC Bank, which they said was the servicing bank behind the card, and discussed the subject with a CSR there... The CSR told the poster that the card does NOT charge the 1% card network fee on ATM withdrawals, but DOES charge the fee on POS transactions... And apparently on counter withdrawals too, based on your report above.

That's good news in that at least in terms of ATM withdrawals, it puts the Fidelity card on par with the Schwab card. The Schwab card, though, also doesn't charge the 1% fee on POS transactions, to the best of my knowledge, nor does Cap One on their MC debit card.

Cheers

[OriginalPoster]

Sure. Some recent ATM transactions on the Fidelity card were as follows:

Date Exc Rate BOT IER X-Rates

2011/04/19 30.0306 30.119 30.0601

2011/04/20 30.0114 30.014 29.9497

2011/04/21 29.9109 29.913 29.9102

2011/04/22 29.8110 29.929 N/A

BTW, I tried once doing a cash advance against the same Fidelity Card at a Kasikorn currency exchange booth. In that case they did dock the interbank rate by 1%.

Thanks very much for posting that info, OP.. Those are indeed good rates for a VISA logo card, and would indicate no 1% card network fee is being charged by Fidelity on foreign ATM transactions. I added two common exchange rate reference points to your numbers to show the comparisons, the daily Interbank Exchange Rate averages posted by the Bank of Thailand, and the daily Thai baht-U.S. dollar exchange rates posted by X-Rates.com.

Interestingly, the FlyerGuide web site that recaps foreign currency fees on various credit cards and debit cards still says there is...

MySmart Cash account waives $1 fee and reimburses ATM-owner fees [34]. 1% fee is included in the exchange rate, so appears that there is no fee, but it's there.

However, your data above suggests otherwise... so that's very good to hear...

Equally interestingly, when I was looking about, I came across a bulletin board from another country discussing the Fidelity card... And one poster there said they had called PNC Bank, which they said was the servicing bank behind the card, and discussed the subject with a CSR there... The CSR told the poster that the card does NOT charge the 1% card network fee on ATM withdrawals, but DOES charge the fee on POS transactions... And apparently on counter withdrawals too, based on your report above.

That's good news in that at least in terms of ATM withdrawals, it puts the Fidelity card on par with the Schwab card. The Schwab card, though, also doesn't charge the 1% fee on POS transactions, to the best of my knowledge, nor does Cap One on their MC debit card.

Cheers

The counter withdrawal trick works fine with my Credit Union's ATM card though (no 1% fee), but that card doesn't reimburse ATM fees. I was using the card for counter withdrawals for a long time before I figured out that Fidelity was finally reimbursing the ATM fees automatically (early on, I had to call Fideltity each time and convince a rep that a 150 baht fee had been taken out - too much of a hassle).

BTW, you mentioned the dynamic surrency conversion of withdrawals for counter withdrawals at SCB.. I wonder if they might be doing that only for MasterCard logo cards and not for VISA logo cards because I haven't encountered DCC from them, they've been given me the same rate as an ATM machine would (without the 150 baht fee). Some SCB branched do refuse to do it though. The whole DCC thing seems pretty strange to me, are there actually cases where the consumer from it? SCB advertises it pretty heavily as being good for customers and a number high-end hotels in Bangkok will try to slip it it on you while you're paying your bill. Seems like a straight-up case of consumer fraud to me. Are there certain cards from certain countries that give a lower exchange rate than DCC, making DCC a good value under some scenarios?

Edited May 6, 2011 by OriginalPoster