Vietnam - Value For Money

[monty1412]

I've heard that female company can be expensive and difficult to enjoy ...is that true?

Thats not a hallmark of Vietnam alone... female company anywhere in the world sooner or later becomes expensive and difficult to enjoy.... I think you have quite neatly captured the basis of the quintessent relationship between men and women as species.

[theoldgit]

Shortly before I retired I hosted a visit from some Vietnamese Government officials who where visiting the UK, a couple of them gave me their card and told me to look them up if I evere returned to Hanoi, now where did I put those bloody cards?

[hermespan]

Vietnam vs. Thailand

Keep in mind that I haven't lived there since 2001

Pros

- intellectual: Viets can think, are literate, logical and organized. Think China not South-East Asia. Many more have a higher academic education too.

- vegetarian: much easier to find veg food, as Mahayana monks are and there are established restaurants.

- skilled: there are a lot of technically skilled workers. helps when you need house repairs done PROPERLY.

- cheaper: virtually everything

- Roman script: although it only aproximates what wee use in English, I am not totally illterate there

-Social: It is possible to make local male friends

Cons

- Communist: Still. This means bureaucracy

- Ethnic: Sometimes you want to forget you are in Asia. this is more difficult to do in VN

- Anti-P4P: There isn't just not an open girlie bar scene, it's complicated enough to even have a local girffriend

- Off center: HCMC is not the air route hub that BKK is

- Just OK Medical care: Although plenty better than 'please don't let me get sick here' PNH, it is nowhere as good as Thailand.

- like Chile: It's so long and thin getting around the country is a pain in the neck

[PattayaParent]

Vietnam vs. Thailand

Keep in mind that I haven't lived there since 2001

Pros

- intellectual: Viets can think, are literate, logical and organized. Think China not South-East Asia. Many more have a higher academic education too.

Can agree with that

- vegetarian: much easier to find veg food, as Mahayana monks are and there are established restaurants.

I don't think I've ever seen a vegetarian restaurant in Ha Noi, in fact it amazes me how the VN eat every single part of any and all animals (and yes I really mean EVERY part)

- skilled: there are a lot of technically skilled workers. helps when you need house repairs done PROPERLY.

Can't agree there, they are just as slapdash as the Thais and resist the use of 'foreign' methods in housing and don't have the experience of international standards in industrial construction (refineries, power plants) as the Thais. They are harder workers though.

- cheaper: virtually everything

- Roman script: although it only aproximates what wee use in English, I am not totally illterate there

-Social: It is possible to make local male friends

AND local female friends

Cons

- Communist: Still. This means bureaucracy

The paperwork is not so bad IF you can actually find out what paperwork is required. $$ make many problems smoother though.

- Ethnic: Sometimes you want to forget you are in Asia. this is more difficult to do in VN

Than in Thailand? I certainly see more churches in VN than in Thailand, and a lot less wats. But it's always hard to forget you are in Asia with so many Asian looking people around.

- Anti-P4P: There isn't just not an open girlie bar scene, it's complicated enough to even have a local girffriend

There's no open girlie bar scene in UK, USA or most countries in fact. It's only complicated to have a local girlfriend in your government hotel after 10pm. Up until 10pm they don't care what you do together in the hotel room.

- Off center: HCMC is not the air route hub that BKK is

True, but you have to remember that Bangkok is the hub of everything, even the hub of hubs, how could any country compete with that?

- Just OK Medical care: Although plenty better than 'please don't let me get sick here' PNH, it is nowhere as good as Thailand.

Very true but fortunately I haven't had to try out the local medical care although I have visited a few government hospitals.

- like Chile: It's so long and thin getting around the country is a pain in the neck

There's a very efficient and comfortable train service that will get you from HN to HCMC, try doing that in USA.

[attrayant]

Having just returned, I wanted to mention that deposit rates were hovering around 14%. Of course the banks are government-owned, inflation is wildly unpredictable and the exchange rate swings back and forth between 19,000 and 22,000 VND to the USD seemingly without rhyme or reason.

If I had a spare $50 grand that I wasn't afraid to lose, I'd be tempted.

[PattayaParent]

Having just returned, I wanted to mention that deposit rates were hovering around 14%. Of course the banks are government-owned, inflation is wildly unpredictable and the exchange rate swings back and forth between 19,000 and 22,000 VND to the USD seemingly without rhyme or reason.

If I had a spare $50 grand that I wasn't afraid to lose, I'd be tempted.

That would be deposit rates on the VN Dong. The US$ desposit rates have dropped to only 2%.

[tutsiwarrior]

Vietnam vs. Thailand

Keep in mind that I haven't lived there since 2001

Pros

- intellectual: Viets can think, are literate, logical and organized. Think China not South-East Asia. Many more have a higher academic education too.

Can agree with that

- vegetarian: much easier to find veg food, as Mahayana monks are and there are established restaurants.

I don't think I've ever seen a vegetarian restaurant in Ha Noi, in fact it amazes me how the VN eat every single part of any and all animals (and yes I really mean EVERY part)

- skilled: there are a lot of technically skilled workers. helps when you need house repairs done PROPERLY.

Can't agree there, they are just as slapdash as the Thais and resist the use of 'foreign' methods in housing and don't have the experience of international standards in industrial construction (refineries, power plants) as the Thais. They are harder workers though.

- cheaper: virtually everything

- Roman script: although it only aproximates what wee use in English, I am not totally illterate there

-Social: It is possible to make local male friends

AND local female friends

Cons

- Communist: Still. This means bureaucracy

The paperwork is not so bad IF you can actually find out what paperwork is required. $$ make many problems smoother though.

- Ethnic: Sometimes you want to forget you are in Asia. this is more difficult to do in VN

Than in Thailand? I certainly see more churches in VN than in Thailand, and a lot less wats. But it's always hard to forget you are in Asia with so many Asian looking people around.

- Anti-P4P: There isn't just not an open girlie bar scene, it's complicated enough to even have a local girffriend

There's no open girlie bar scene in UK, USA or most countries in fact. It's only complicated to have a local girlfriend in your government hotel after 10pm. Up until 10pm they don't care what you do together in the hotel room.

- Off center: HCMC is not the air route hub that BKK is

True, but you have to remember that Bangkok is the hub of everything, even the hub of hubs, how could any country compete with that?

- Just OK Medical care: Although plenty better than 'please don't let me get sick here' PNH, it is nowhere as good as Thailand.

Very true but fortunately I haven't had to try out the local medical care although I have visited a few government hospitals.

- like Chile: It's so long and thin getting around the country is a pain in the neck

There's a very efficient and comfortable train service that will get you from HN to HCMC, try doing that in USA.

I've lived and worked in VN for over 2 years and agree with PP's assessment...what ye gotta understand is that a living and working arrangement anywhere is gonna be different than hanging out in Thailand with the wife's family and friends: 'isn't the weather nice?' 'hahaha...'...'you are an ignorant but likeable subnormal person...' 'hahaha...'...

in 2006 in HCMC and even though we had a wonderful serviced flat in district 1 my wife had had enough and prepared to return to Thailand and I said: 'please don't leave...you know what's gonna happen...' and she said: 'just behave yerself, OK?'...sure enough, the worst happened; a beautiful, literate bar woman appeared with good English that appreciated western humor and liked old western movies on TCM...that just wanted money to go shopping and then to parade her little sexy outfits and we holed up at a hotel on Thi Sach street and I went out to get food and I was mesmerized and forgot to go home...and then my marriage was damaged forever...

ye gotta watch out as there are more than a few ways that Vietnam can mess with your life...

[4evermaat]

................

What always astounds me about many 'expats' living in Thailand is that they say they'd never go back to the UK, as an example, yet they are quite happy to live in a place that does not guarantee them residence, rights and are subjected to the populist policies of xenophobic and jingoistic politicians whose first step a signs of trouble is to 'blame the foreigner' . . . and if the beer is too cold or the women too expensive they look at Cambodia or Laos to make up for this paradigm shift in their life

I think the questions one needs to ask about anyplace they're considering staying depends to some extent on whether they're planning a tourist/short-time visit vs. planning an extended stay/life home...

Some folks are commenting above about the prices of beer, the availability of P4P, and the best places to find pizza, which are among the typical kinds of tourist concerns... And nothing wrong with those, or any others similar.

But for someone who'd be considering Vietnam as a place to live, and whether it's "value for money," there probably are a different (or perhaps I should say an additional) set of questions that might be involved:

--How does one manage a long stay visa arrangement of some type if not married or running a business?

--If you need hospitalization or an operation, how's the quality of available facilities?

--What's the ability to open and conduct local banking (accounts, ATM cards, online banking)?

--How well is someone going to get along day-to-day who doesn't speak/understand Vietnamese?

--Everybody has creature conforts they enjoy (burritos, pizza, a particular drink, whatever). Can you find and buy western type stuff there and at what kind of prices?

--As a foreigner, are you able to directly make living arrangements on your own (such as home rentals, utilities, services like internet, cable TV, etc.), or do the local authorities require a Vietnamese to execute such things?

Those kinds of things don't much matter for a short-time visit. But they matter a long for any kind of longer stay.

Good posts here. How much would a studio apartment cost? edit: with or without air condition.

Also, someone made a comment about gov't hotel. What's the difference between govt hotel and private hotel? does the gov't really care what goes on behind closed doors?

I am particularly interested in the visa situation also. Younger guy with no retirement pension or age. Can back-to-back business visas be done? How is an overstay situation handled?

Don't have a problem being a passerby-er in any country, as long as it is straightforward what needs to be done to legally or otherwise stay in country.

Edited March 2, 2012 by 4evermaat

[4evermaat]

separate question: how do you travel between Thailand/Vietnam. I guess the 3 major areas of interest would be Phuket, Chumphon, Bangkok/Pattaya. Hanoi/HCMC. mini-bus/coach/fly/etc. what are the pros/cons? prices? recommended companies.

Do the vietnam minivans drive "like they stole it" as one recent border run passenger recalled a recent trip to Ranong?

Edited March 2, 2012 by 4evermaat

[tutsiwarrior]

'Also, someone made a comment about gov't hotel. What's the difference between govt hotel and private hotel? does the gov't really care what goes on behind closed doors?'

with any hotel if you want to have an overnight 'guest' you simply pay for an extra room and your guest can then sleep wherever she wants...in HCMC there are plenty of smaller places in district 1 (clean and comfortable with internet and cable TV, breakfast, etc) that don't care how many women you have overnight in your room...

I've found that the private hotels can add a lot onto the bill and get away with it where at gov't hotels all prices are listed...I stayed at an appalling dump private hotel in a little town out in the provinces and they added an extra day's charge when I left the AC on when I went to work one morning...no travel writer could ever describe the conditions, ye just gotta laugh...but I could make food in my room (they had no restaurant anyway); in the '3 star' gov't hotel I was in previously I couldn't make food and the 'food' on offer was inedible and I was starving...

there are plenty of flights for the 1 hour journey between Hanoi/HCMC and BKK, most of them cheap, and overland transport is the domain of backpackers and adventurers...why bother?

[PattayaParent]

Government hotels will abide by the rules concerning overnight guests but it's a case of either nobody in your room after 10 pm (upto then no questions asked), or as Tutsi says you pay for an extra room and still no questions asked.

A government hotel I stayed in for some months and so knew the staff would 'register' the GF in pencil and the registration would disappear the next day. No extra charge.

[Ducnguyen]

'Also, someone made a comment about gov't hotel. What's the difference between govt hotel and private hotel? does the gov't really care what goes on behind closed doors?'

with any hotel if you want to have an overnight 'guest' you simply pay for an extra room and your guest can then sleep wherever she wants...in HCMC there are plenty of smaller places in district 1 (clean and comfortable with internet and cable TV, breakfast, etc) that don't care how many women you have overnight in your room...

I've found that the private hotels can add a lot onto the bill and get away with it where at gov't hotels all prices are listed...I stayed at an appalling dump private hotel in a little town out in the provinces and they added an extra day's charge when I left the AC on when I went to work one morning...no travel writer could ever describe the conditions, ye just gotta laugh...but I could make food in my room (they had no restaurant anyway); in the '3 star' gov't hotel I was in previously I couldn't make food and the 'food' on offer was inedible and I was starving...

there are plenty of flights for the 1 hour journey between Hanoi/HCMC and BKK, most of them cheap, and overland transport is the domain of backpackers and adventurers...why bother?

Government hotel means the hotel owned by the government. Before 1986, 95% of the hotels were owned by the government so the hotels you see today are the ones which "survive" the Doi Moi period. The government does not care what goes on behind those doors as long as you are not a spy or against the government. We, the Vietnamese, find the gov hotel old-fashioned and with poor services. However, gov hotels are significantly cheaper than private hotels. And one more thing, the staff of the gov-hotel normally has some connection (son of the aunt of the uncle of the father of the sister of the grand father of someone who works for the government, etc) so they normally are not well educated ("my connection brings me everything so why do I have to study?"), not responsible and don't speak much English.

Overnight guest? the gov- hotels and the big/high profile hotels do follow the rules. The smaller hotels does not care as long as you register properly (for yourself when you check in) and they have your passport.

Vietnam vs Thailand.

There are certain things are cheaper:

Vietnam: laptops, phones, tablet - normally it is 10-20% cheaper. I mean new ones with warranty. I have been looking to buy a new laptop and a tablet here in Thailand, I have been to Pantip but I must say that the prices are higher than ones in Vietnam.

Thailand: car!!!, clothes and cosmetics. I can not confirm this but I had two female friends visited last week and they flight back to Vietnam with two big suitcase full of shampoo, cream, etc. !!!

Foods- Well, this is hard to say. I work near Chidlom/Siam and the prices are crazily high, higher than anywhere in Vietnam but you have new restaurants open everyday. I live down in Sukhumvit and I find the foods here are cheaper than foods in Vietnam.

Anyone going to Vietnam? buy me a beer and then I can help!

[IsaanUSA]

--How does one manage a long stay visa arrangement of some type if not married or running a business?

Don't know, only 1 guy I know there falls into that category and his girlfriend managed to get him a visa through her company. Didn't Gary Glitter have a long stay visa though? (and I don't mean the time he served in prison).

When I researched Vietnam visas (very briefly researched all countries in SE Asia), there were 6 month multi-entry tourist visas available in very limited places. In the USA it was only at the consulate in San Francisco.

Off Topic: Cambodia seemed to be the easiest place to get a long stay visa.

separate question: how do you travel between Thailand/Vietnam. I guess the 3 major areas of interest would be Phuket, Chumphon, Bangkok/Pattaya. Hanoi/HCMC. mini-bus/coach/fly/etc. what are the pros/cons? prices? recommended companies.

Is this a legit question? Thailand and Vietnam do not border each other. A bus would require entering one or more other countries and take a long time. There are many daily flights between the two countries, between several different cities. There are also many daily flights between cities in Thailand and cities in Vietnam. Flights are generally reasonably priced.

I'm sorry if I mis-understood your question, about travel between Thailand and Vietnam.

If you've never been to Asia before, Vietnam is more intimidating than Thailand, so I would recommend starting in Thailand to ease into Asian culture.

Edited March 27, 2012 by IsaanUSA

[PattayaParent]

^by long stay visa I was thinking 1 year with no requirement to leave every 90 days.

To get from Thailand to Viet Nam overland would be a long journey as you say but it's doable.

Train to Nong Khai and bus from Vientiene to Vinh or up to Ha Noi (or better still jump on the train to HN).

Bus to Trat and on to Phnom Penh and then bus to HCMC.

Flying when Air Asia has one of it's cheapo deals would be the best bet though, cheap and quick.

Edited March 28, 2012 by PattayaParent

[IsaanUSA]

I haven't been to Laos in several years, but I know Cambodia uses a full page visa. Vietnam also uses a full page visa. So by spending the little bit extra to fly to Vietnam, you also save a page (or more, depending on your route) in your passport.

I love Vietnam, but don't know if I would live there. So I never looked into a long stay. But you could get a work permit and a job. I imagine it could be easier for you depending on your nationality.

[midasthailand]

I've heard that female company can be expensive and difficult to enjoy ...is that true?

Yes. Exactly as it should be. Courting is an important part of Vietnamese culture whether its Vietnamese with Vietnamese or Vietnamese with Foreigner. Many girls wait a long time; weeks, months or sometimes until marriage, before they allow sex to become part of a relationship.

One of the most appealing parts of life in Saigon compared to expat life in many Thai cities in the complete lack of in your face "sex industry". If that's what you're looking for then Thailand or Cambodia would be your best bet.

Whilst I have not been there (except off the coast in 1970) I have a friend who visits there regularly and extols the beauty and availability of the local girls (that are on the game) for US$20.

[tutsiwarrior]

I think that as a tourist a 30 day visa would be all that one needs to get a feel for the place...it ain't Thailand...

I went there on work contracts and not as a tourist so that my understanding of the place and its people is more intimate...plus my expenses were all taken care of...a suitable western lifestyle in Hanoi or HCMC can be expensive if it comes out of yer pocket...

yeah...there are girls (the most beautiful that I have seen in asia) and etc but that's not really the issue...if you plan to stay then you need to get out and about to check things out...how would you fit in?...Thailand is predictable...Vietnam is not...

[IsaanUSA]

yeah...there are girls (the most beautiful that I have seen in asia)

When I told a Thai lady friend that the women in Vietnam were the most beautiful in Asia, she was very surprised. But wow! They really are. Thai girls are cute, Vietnamese women are beautiful.

I like this,

Thailand is predictable...Vietnam is not...

but I think that if one is familiar with Asian culture and have been in Thailand for several months, then Vietnam is not so intimidating. I would not recommend Vietnam for a first time Asia visitor though. In addition, people (tourists) need to understand that tourism in Vietnam is relatively new (15 years or so) and the people are scrambling to get a piece of the tourist dong pie (lol). The Vietnamese are more in your face about getting your money, where in Thailand they are much much much more coy about it. Funny thing is, when they triple overcharge you in Vietnam, it's still cheap!

I agree with you Tutsi, Thailand is more comfortable for expats. It's more westernized.

Edited March 29, 2012 by IsaanUSA

[tfc]

Any recommendations for a serviced apartment in district 1 for a couple of months?

[tutsiwarrior]

Any recommendations for a serviced apartment in district 1 for a couple of months?

there are serviced flats available in district 1 in HCMC but they aren't cheap, like USD 2-3000 per month...I had a nice one all paid by my employer, 2 bedrooms but the roar from motorbikes from 6am to 9pm is hard to take if you are a light sleeper...

on my last job I was in the middle of nowhere on the north central coast and I endured extreme hardship conditions...not for tourists but really wild and beautiful...if you are adventurous check it out...two airports: Vinh to the north and Dong Hoi to the south...in between you shall see the real Vietnam...a magical place...

Edited March 30, 2012 by tutsiwarrior

[tutsiwarrior]

(I wanted to say something about US Senator John McCain who became a US national hero and a presidential candidate after bombing the shit outta the place but I won't...)

[IsaanUSA]

(I wanted to say something about US Senator John McCain who became a US national hero and a presidential candidate after bombing the shit outta the place but I won't...)

Hopefully something positive.

[tfc]

Any recommendations for a serviced apartment in district 1 for a couple of months?

there are serviced flats available in district 1 in HCMC but they aren't cheap, like USD 2-3000 per month...I had a nice one all paid by my employer, 2 bedrooms but the roar from motorbikes from 6am to 9pm is hard to take if you are a light sleeper...

on my last job I was in the middle of nowhere on the north central coast and I endured extreme hardship conditions...not for tourists but really wild and beautiful...if you are adventurous check it out...two airports: Vinh to the north and Dong Hoi to the south...in between you shall see the real Vietnam...a magical place...

Thanks for that. Rent seems comparable to what I pay in Australia.

[tutsiwarrior]

'on my last job I was in the middle of nowhere on the north central coast and I endured extreme hardship conditions...not for tourists but really wild and beautiful...if you are adventurous check it out...two airports: Vinh to the north and Dong Hoi to the south...in between you shall see the real Vietnam...a magical place...'

I heard from someone who is still in the area and he said that in colonial times that the french called the main highway in that area AH1 'the road without joy'...

maybe not joy-full but quite scenic...the panorama as you approach the town of Ky Anh from the north is spectacular...useta do a weekly shopping at the supermarket in Ha Tinh city then load up with Bier Hanoi for the 1 hour drive and cruise back to the digs at the Hoa Sim hotel at the Deo Con pass and that was the entertainment/recreation for the week...drunk engineers laughin' and yellin' (a sober vietnamese at the wheel)...we loved/hated the place...huge craters everywhere from the bombing during 'the american war'...local folks in cone hats, flipflops and ox carts minding their own business like nothin' ever happened 40 years ago...school girls in school uniform with hair down to their butts to die for...country girls don't cut their hair until they are married, I'm told...very chaste but horribly captivating...

Edited March 30, 2012 by tutsiwarrior