Rubber Trees

[David006]

google isn't much use for all things rubber, and some of the finds are all in thai anyways. Will continue to search and ask. The interest is in followup to an observant friend not in the rubber business, who believes that with the million+ new trees coming on line for each the next few years and the million+ babies that will be planted soon - the short of it is he believes there will be a significant shortage of tappers (let alone ones that aren't just wood carvers) in the coming years. Labor demand may force costs up and quality may suffer. A product that reduces the 'touch time/labor cost' seems to make sense if there's no or little loss of output. Will report in if and and what I may find.

Found this on FB! lots of good info: Unfortunately still can't find anything on sealed cutting...will keep looking.

May your cups runneth over guys!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mechok-Rubber-Plantation/144988282233544?sk=info

[David006]

google isn't much use for all things rubber, and some of the finds are all in thai anyways. Will continue to search and ask. The interest is in followup to an observant friend not in the rubber business, who believes that with the million+ new trees coming on line for each the next few years and the million+ babies that will be planted soon - the short of it is he believes there will be a significant shortage of tappers (let alone ones that aren't just wood carvers) in the coming years. Labor demand may force costs up and quality may suffer. A product that reduces the 'touch time/labor cost' seems to make sense if there's no or little loss of output. Will report in if and and what I may find.

Found this on FB! lots of good info: Unfortunately still can't find anything on sealed cutting...will keep looking.

May your cups runneth over guys!

http://www.facebook....2233544?sk=info

another good site:

http://ecoport.org/ep?SearchType=earticleView&earticleId=644&page=4343

Maybe we need a links section on this thread Admin?

[David006]

google isn't much use for all things rubber, and some of the finds are all in thai anyways. Will continue to search and ask. The interest is in followup to an observant friend not in the rubber business, who believes that with the million+ new trees coming on line for each the next few years and the million+ babies that will be planted soon - the short of it is he believes there will be a significant shortage of tappers (let alone ones that aren't just wood carvers) in the coming years. Labor demand may force costs up and quality may suffer. A product that reduces the 'touch time/labor cost' seems to make sense if there's no or little loss of output. Will report in if and and what I may find.

Found this on FB! lots of good info: Unfortunately still can't find anything on sealed cutting...will keep looking.

May your cups runneth over guys!

http://www.facebook....2233544?sk=info

another good site:

http://ecoport.org/e...d=644&page=4343

Maybe we need a links section on this thread Admin?

and annuva one

http://www.dailynews.lk/2008/03/18/fea03.asp

[David006]

google isn't much use for all things rubber, and some of the finds are all in thai anyways. Will continue to search and ask. The interest is in followup to an observant friend not in the rubber business, who believes that with the million+ new trees coming on line for each the next few years and the million+ babies that will be planted soon - the short of it is he believes there will be a significant shortage of tappers (let alone ones that aren't just wood carvers) in the coming years. Labor demand may force costs up and quality may suffer. A product that reduces the 'touch time/labor cost' seems to make sense if there's no or little loss of output. Will report in if and and what I may find.

Found this on FB! lots of good info: Unfortunately still can't find anything on sealed cutting...will keep looking.

May your cups runneth over guys!

http://www.facebook....2233544?sk=info

another good site:

http://ecoport.org/e...d=644&page=4343

Maybe we need a links section on this thread Admin?

and annuva one

http://www.dailynews...03/18/fea03.asp

Some good links here too

http://www.rubbercenter.org/informationcenter/link_world.html

[philo]

This is the same plot as in Post #212 on page 9. The last days have seen a fair amount of rain almost nightly. I didn't get pictures from the three canopy, but as you see there is shadow almost everywhere on a sunny day. The family tapper opened only a few threes.

A lot of leaves, but little gras. The plot is surrounded by rubber on all sides. A few threes have fallen due to heavy thunderstorm winds. Another plot lost quite a few threes due to fire last year.

The area is far NE Isan close to the Lao border. Many farmers have started production tapping already. Good luck to y'all ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0_vAXJHvgw

[bannork]

Way back at the beginning of this thread in Rubber 101,James recommends planting the trees every 3 metres and the rows 7 metres apart, resulting in 76 trees per rai. 2 days ago I went to the Agricultural office in Ban Dung, Udon Thani and picked up their leaflet which recommended either planting every 2.5 metres, 7 metres between rows, resulting in 91 trees per rai, or planting every 3 metres with the rows only 6 metres apart, resulting in 89 trees per rai.

These numbers are considerably more than what James recommends, does anyone have any thoughts or advice on this?

[Dakling]

Everyone in our neck of the woods does 6*4. I don't think you are going to lose anything on yield per hectare doing it that way and in early years it might actually give higher yields. We ended up doing 6*4 against my wishes bu keeping the peace was more important than winning over what I figured wasn't that big of a deal.

I think the real issue is it is more $ for the trees up front and no gains in rubber production once the trees are reach full size. Granted I am no expert and someone with production experience might be better able to comment.

On another point, I am curious to know if anyone knows of any other tree types available in Issan other than RRIM600 and RRIT251? I keep hearing of all these great new varieties but am yet to see any being used in our area (Si Sa Ket), in fact almost zero 251 in our area that I am aware of.

[Dakling]

Actually that was 6*3, not 6*4.

[customcurb]

with our 7yr old trees that canopy seems to block sunlight to the lower/est branches, which are turning dark and not growing leaves. I've been told that this is 'self-pruning' which I hope is correct. I suspect with wider spacing more sunlight would result in more leaves overall. Does closer spacing encourage taller trees or not and might that be good or not?

[jamescollister]

Way back at the beginning of this thread in Rubber 101,James recommends planting the trees every 3 metres and the rows 7 metres apart, resulting in 76 trees per rai. 2 days ago I went to the Agricultural office in Ban Dung, Udon Thani and picked up their leaflet which recommended either planting every 2.5 metres, 7 metres between rows, resulting in 91 trees per rai, or planting every 3 metres with the rows only 6 metres apart, resulting in 89 trees per rai.

These numbers are considerably more than what James recommends, does anyone have any thoughts or advice on this?

Don't think there is a rigid rule on spacing, like everything as they learn more the best practice changes. Best practice in one area may be different from another area. Rain fall, temperture and soil conditions will very. Follow the recomendations from the Government for your area. Bigger spacing will give more rubber per tree, but less per rai [maybe] but more work. If land is no problem why pack them in. If you are a Thai farmer with 10 rai fill the space, a few more kilos here and there is a plus, but you have the extra work of a 100 trees to take care of. Jim

[Mark1971]

Way back at the beginning of this thread in Rubber 101,James recommends planting the trees every 3 metres and the rows 7 metres apart, resulting in 76 trees per rai. 2 days ago I went to the Agricultural office in Ban Dung, Udon Thani and picked up their leaflet which recommended either planting every 2.5 metres, 7 metres between rows, resulting in 91 trees per rai, or planting every 3 metres with the rows only 6 metres apart, resulting in 89 trees per rai.

These numbers are considerably more than what James recommends, does anyone have any thoughts or advice on this?

Does anyone know why 3m x 7m is the recommended tree spacing?

To me his spacing is logical if you are going to grow cash crops in the 7m between rows, until the rubber tree canopy closes.

For a mono culture rubber tree plantation. (With latex & timber as the outputs).

The research I have read states that latex yield per tree starts to deteriorate when the spacing is dropped below 4m, so 3m seems too close & 7m too wide.

I am thinking of planting 4.5m x 4.5m.

I hope this will give an increased latex & timber yield per Rai due to the increased number of trees.

Additionally the trees will grow taller with a larger straight bole increasing the timber value, due to the even spacing forcing the trees to grow straight up in search of sunlight.

[Mark1971]

From the photos of members plantations, it seems that a lot of effort is required to keep the area between trees clear of weeds.

Has anyone tried planting nitrogen fixing leguminous cover crops like Mucuna Bracteata between their trees.

These plants take nitrogen from the air & transfer it into the soil reducing fertilizer requirements, they have additional benefits of preventing soil erosion, improving moisture retention in the soil & suppressing weed growth.

[customcurb]

mark,

interesting on spacing. i'm inclined to go towards 4.5x4.5 as you said as tree canopies aren't rectangular. but, the wider paths between rows might have to do with tractor access. i haven't measured or asked a tractor operator yet, will.

[fezzy]

From the photos of members plantations, it seems that a lot of effort is required to keep the area between trees clear of weeds.

Has anyone tried planting nitrogen fixing leguminous cover crops like Mucuna Bracteata between their trees.

These plants take nitrogen from the air & transfer it into the soil reducing fertilizer requirements, they have additional benefits of preventing soil erosion, improving moisture retention in the soil & suppressing weed growth.

It seems that this has been used elsewhere and if you google 'Greenind trades' it has some facts and information regarding the applications , looks like the only downside would be access for the tappers as it appears to grow about knee height and could slowdown the tapping process.

[Gonsalviz]

I wanted to check in with the more experience growers on the size trees should be. Mine are mostly 4.5 meters and probably 6 cm circumference on average. They will be ending their 3rd year in June. They have had corn grown between the for those3 year and fertilized on schedule. The family is going to plant corn for a 4th year because the trees are providing little shade. Seems to me they are a little too tall and skinny for 3 years.

[kwonitoy]

Your trees look about right to me.

We've planted every year since 2006 up untill last year,so I've got them in all kinds of growth stages. My 3 year old are about the same circumferance and a lot taller, due to trimming the branches very aggressivly, Mine are 6 and 7 meters tall, so I'm nervous with the windstorms we've been having.

Wind that has knocked over four of our five year old trees hasn't bothered these tall beanpoles yet

When they hit 4 years old and up they'll start looking like a real rubber tree, a lot more circumferance, and better canopy, and the fifth year and up is when they start to really put the girth size on

Ken

[Mosha]

I wanted to check in with the more experience growers on the size trees should be. Mine are mostly 4.5 meters and probably 6 cm circumference on average. They will be ending their 3rd year in June. They have had corn grown between the for those3 year and fertilized on schedule. The family is going to plant corn for a 4th year because the trees are providing little shade. Seems to me they are a little too tall and skinny for 3 years.

I wanted to check in with the more experience growers on the size trees should be. Mine are mostly 4.5 meters and probably 6 cm circumference on average. They will be ending their 3rd year in June. They have had corn grown between the for those3 year and fertilized on schedule. The family is going to plant corn for a 4th year because the trees are providing little shade. Seems to me they are a little too tall and skinny for 3 years.

I think we all go through this when we 1st start. If you compare them with your neighbours though, you'll see they are doing just fine.

[Gonsalviz]

Your trees look about right to me.

We've planted every year since 2006 up untill last year,so I've got them in all kinds of growth stages. My 3 year old are about the same circumferance and a lot taller, due to trimming the branches very aggressivly, Mine are 6 and 7 meters tall, so I'm nervous with the windstorms we've been having.

Wind that has knocked over four of our five year old trees hasn't bothered these tall beanpoles yet

When they hit 4 years old and up they'll start looking like a real rubber tree, a lot more circumferance, and better canopy, and the fifth year and up is when they start to really put the girth size on

Ken

Thanks for the answer I needed.

[Gonsalviz]

I wanted to check in with the more experience growers on the size trees should be. Mine are mostly 4.5 meters and probably 6 cm circumference on average. They will be ending their 3rd year in June. They have had corn grown between the for those3 year and fertilized on schedule. The family is going to plant corn for a 4th year because the trees are providing little shade. Seems to me they are a little too tall and skinny for 3 years.

I wanted to check in with the more experience growers on the size trees should be. Mine are mostly 4.5 meters and probably 6 cm circumference on average. They will be ending their 3rd year in June. They have had corn grown between the for those3 year and fertilized on schedule. The family is going to plant corn for a 4th year because the trees are providing little shade. Seems to me they are a little too tall and skinny for 3 years.

I think we all go through this when we 1st start. If you compare them with your neighbours though, you'll see they are doing just fine.

The problem is the trees around me have never been fertilized and I do not know how long they heve been in the ground. They just don't spend any money on them around here. A 20 cm tree will be over 25 years old. They will start tapping them at the correct size but that maybe 15 years of growth.

I was just trying to find a comparison.

[Gippy]

I wanted to check in with the more experience growers on the size trees should be. Mine are mostly 4.5 meters and probably 6 cm circumference on average. They will be ending their 3rd year in June. They have had corn grown between the for those3 year and fertilized on schedule. The family is going to plant corn for a 4th year because the trees are providing little shade. Seems to me they are a little too tall and skinny for 3 years.

I wanted to check in with the more experience growers on the size trees should be. Mine are mostly 4.5 meters and probably 6 cm circumference on average. They will be ending their 3rd year in June. They have had corn grown between the for those3 year and fertilized on schedule. The family is going to plant corn for a 4th year because the trees are providing little shade. Seems to me they are a little too tall and skinny for 3 years.

I think we all go through this when we 1st start. If you compare them with your neighbours though, you'll see they are doing just fine.

The problem is the trees around me have never been fertilized and I do not know how long they heve been in the ground. They just don't spend any money on them around here. A 20 cm tree will be over 25 years old. They will start tapping them at the correct size but that maybe 15 years of growth.

I was just trying to find a comparison.

Here is a picture of ours at 2 years and 8 months. Looks pretty similar.

[customcurb]

question on how long can keep undiluted field latex before it coagulates: anyone know how long you can keep field latex in a closed blue drum before it turns hard? Please, only if you HAVE done so before.

thx

customcurb

[David006]

question on how long can keep undiluted field latex before it coagulates: anyone know how long you can keep field latex in a closed blue drum before it turns hard? Please, only if you HAVE done so before.

thx

customcurb

All field latex has a percentage of water etc which makes it go off...adding ammonia will inhibit this..interested to know why you want to keep it though..???

[customcurb]

I would like to make mats 2x a week rather than every day. had been told by another rubber farm that they kept latex 10 days using ammonia, but I also read that ammonia isn't a good preservative/anti-coagulant if you want to produce a mat.

[customcurb]

about how many days/weeks/months after opening trees for the first time, have you waited until you can change from doing kee to doing mat ?

[David006]

about how many days/weeks/months after opening trees for the first time, have you waited until you can change from doing kee to doing mat ?

We have been cutting trees for 5+ years..some 15yo some about 10....never made mat except for about 6 months when first bought 1st part of our present farm...sort of worked out it was not worth the labour effort.

Will build shed and get rollers etc maybe in a couple of years but cup pays the bills and keeps the beer fridge full so passive income for us is the way to go at present. ROI on farm has worked out at over 12-% pa so no complaints..paid for itself already...rest is gravy...

[cobbler]

You appear to be luckier than us Ken. Our neighbour burn't right up to their boundary with us and beyond. Our trees were not even 1 year old, and we lost about 100 trees. To make matters worse, Sopha's brother in law was the Kamnam, and he took a bribe to do nothing, when my wife went to see him. He had to give that back when Sopha went to the police. Karma is a bitch though. They stored 750 trees on our land for planting without asking. We knew who the trees belonged to, but we ignored them. They got stolen, the Burma heard a truck pull up one night. The owner came to see Sopha asking about them. Sopha just said what trees?

Absolutely classic stuff there Mosha.Cheers and have a great season to 1 and all

[Mosha]

about how many days/weeks/months after opening trees for the first time, have you waited until you can change from doing kee to doing mat ?

We waited 1 season before we went to mats

[customcurb]

Mosha,

gratus!

[cdmtdm]

guys i keep hearing mention of a 408 variety tree is there such a thing ? or are the thais confusing that with jp80 ?

Cheers

[jamescollister]

guys i keep hearing mention of a 408 variety tree is there such a thing ? or are the thais confusing that with jp80 ?

Cheers

Never heard of 408 trees. Thai usually refer to JVP 80 as black leaf trees. Jim