Is The Train Coming To Chiang Rai?

[donger]

I see these signs (see attachments) around town from time to time and I am wondering whether they are announcing something that is going to happen for certain or if they are lobbying to get train service into Chiang Rai?

[extexthai]

Well, I for one, wish the heck they would. It would have to go right through Phayao and I think it is big enough to have a stop. That sure would be sweet! Pardon me boys....is that what I think it is? ett

[rmacdon61]

Maybe like the bridge to Laos. Saw the sign, last year, on the way to Mae Sai and did two trips looking for it HaHaHa. Apparently, if you cross in a car now, you get wet, so best to wait for the bridge. Maybe the train station will be quite lonely if you wait now? Driving a train for a thai most be very frustrating as you have to actually drive it on the tracks??????

[sunholidaysun1]

The Train is already here, its parked up behind the Central Police Station .

[extexthai]

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes, therefore......if logic is involved, then no.....it probably won't ever happen. It would make much less sense to build up the roads from Mai Sai all the way to Chiang Mai, as that is where the end of the line is, eh? Seems like when it comes down to choosing between the easier way versus the harder way, the later wins out most of the time. At least that is what I have experienced time after time around my community. Hopefully it is just a local phenomenon? But putting all sarcasm and pessimism aside, I sure would like to see that happen some day. I love trains and traveling on them. We shall see, eh? ett

[dindong]

The Train is already here, its parked up behind the Central Police Station .

but unfortunitly it aint going anywhere.................it's a library.

[PhayaoPete]

As one poster started.....Pardon me boys....is that the Chattanooga choo-choo OR....Pardon me Roy, is that the cat that chewed your new shoes? Either way is sure would be a big plus for Thailand economy, especially with China looming in the near distance. Would cut down on crazy slow-down-for-nothing truck drivers, huh? I have heard how much tonnage or kilos per mile, or kilometer you can move on one gallon or liter of fuel with rail. It is astounding. If I could, I sure would throw in my vote for it. Pete

[kandahar]

No doubt, it would be a boon for the city of CR and many citizens of CR. The little city would grow up some more. One day, it is going to be all grown up. Sigh.........................

Edited May 21, 2011 by kandahar

[harrry]

No doubt, it would be a boon for the city of CR and many citizens of CR. The little city would grow up some more. One day, it is going to be all grown up. Sigh.........................

Maybe we will have to act like Indians attacking the paleface rail builders.

[Big Gary]

No doubt, it would be a boon for the city of CR and many citizens of CR. The little city would grow up some more. One day, it is going to be all grown up. Sigh.........................

Maybe we will have to act like Indians attacking the paleface rail builders.

As I had posted before was that my wife owned land in Wang Chai and one day some surveyors were on the land next door and she asked what they were doing. They said they are surveying for the new Railway Line. That was over 20 YEARS ago.

[BarnicaleBob]

I would love to see a train route to Chiang Rai but I think there are too many mountains between Chiang Mai (the current end of the RR line) and Chiang Rai. As trains do not do well on steep grades there would have to be lots of digging and many kilometers of tunnels to make this work. This would be a very expensive project even for the richest of western nations to pull off. I just don't see how such a project could be financed, the cost just would not even come close to justifying having it built.

[villagefarang]

I don’t believe anyone has postulated a route between Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai. Much more apt to branch off toward Den Chai and head in the direction of Chiang Khong where the freight from China would be coming over the bridge from Laos.

[toastie]

No doubt, it would be a boon for the city of CR and many citizens of CR. The little city would grow up some more. One day, it is going to be all grown up. Sigh.........................

Maybe we will have to act like Indians attacking the paleface rail builders.

In my part of the world (British Columbia), the railway was built largely by Chinese coolies. (the contract holder was the Paleface in charge)

[harrry]

No doubt, it would be a boon for the city of CR and many citizens of CR. The little city would grow up some more. One day, it is going to be all grown up. Sigh.........................

Maybe we will have to act like Indians attacking the paleface rail builders.

In my part of the world (British Columbia), the railway was built largely by Chinese coolies. (the contract holder was the Paleface in charge)

THe way things are going the high speed railway here will be built by paleface coolies and have a chinese contract holder. :jap:

[extexthai]

I would love to see a train route to Chiang Rai but I think there are too many mountains between Chiang Mai (the current end of the RR line) and Chiang Rai. As trains do not do well on steep grades there would have to be lots of digging and many kilometers of tunnels to make this work. This would be a very expensive project even for the richest of western nations to pull off. I just don't see how such a project could be financed, the cost just would not even come close to justifying having it built.

There is only one major pass they (paleface coolies working for rich Chinese) would have to negotiate coming from Lampang. After that it is a gentle climb in elevation all the way to Chiang Rai. (Can you tell I would really like it to come through Phayao?) If going on to Chiang Khong, it would be an easy build, but nothing like bringing it on from Chiang Mai. At least the last time I drove from CR to CM, it seems like there were multiple climbs, and as the previous poster mentioned....trains do a lot better on level to gentle inclines with few tunnels, bridges and switchbacks. As far as paying for itself, with the rising cost of hydro-carbons, it wouldn't take long to pay for itself. Hmmmmmm.....ett

[Ricardo]

I would love to see a train route to Chiang Rai but I think there are too many mountains between Chiang Mai (the current end of the RR line) and Chiang Rai. As trains do not do well on steep grades there would have to be lots of digging and many kilometers of tunnels to make this work. This would be a very expensive project even for the richest of western nations to pull off. I just don't see how such a project could be financed, the cost just would not even come close to justifying having it built.

Agreed, that steep-climb over the pass & through the tunnel between Lampang & Chian Mai requires double-heading, and would be crazy as a high-volume heavy-freight route.

So a new spur from somewhere like Den Chai might make more sense. Via Phayao to Chiang Rai & thence up to the Mekong, to follow the river up to China, but what's the country like beyond the Chinese border ?

[extexthai]

It is interesting to note, that in other countries, such as the US, freight rules over passenger service. Railroads allocate certain times for Amtrak to get its run done and if they experience any tardiness, then they play hell trying to fit in the freight scheduling, hence why it is seldom on time. Seems like it is the other way around here...trains run relatively on-time...kind of like Grand Funk Railroad, eh? I am not near any railroads, so don't know how frequent or if at all, any freight trains run on them, as all I have seen when I did get the opportunity, was passenger trains. If someone told them to do the math on how much and how far one liter of fuel goes in moving things across the country, perhaps it would open some minds? Besides, train travel would sure as hell be a lot safer than putting your life in the hands of some yah-ba cranked, idiot, pass-on-blind corners and hills bus driver trying to beat his best time from the last one. Perhaps with the surveying done 20 years ago, they have been trying to put together the environmental impact study together during this time. Otay, buh-wheat....let's don't hold our breadth on this. But keep those fingers crossed! ett

[villagefarang]

During my tenure here in Thailand, I have been witness to naysayers and pessimists saying that this or that would never happen or never be built. Things don’t often happen in the blink of an eye but over time most things do seem to come to fruition.

Given time, the right political environment (and self interest), plus sufficient funds, I have little doubt that one day Chiang Rai will have a train, though probably nowhere near the center of town or within the lifespan of some of our elder members.

I suppose speculation is an entertaining armchair sport for some, but I will sit back and watch things unfold in their own time with no consternation about what, when, why or how.

Edited May 23, 2011 by villagefarang

[kandahar]

It is interesting to note, that in other countries, such as the US, freight rules over passenger service. Railroads allocate certain times for Amtrak to get its run done and if they experience any tardiness, then they play hell trying to fit in the freight scheduling, hence why it is seldom on time. Seems like it is the other way around here...trains run relatively on-time...kind of like Grand Funk Railroad, eh? I am not near any railroads, so don't know how frequent or if at all, any freight trains run on them, as all I have seen when I did get the opportunity, was passenger trains. If someone told them to do the math on how much and how far one liter of fuel goes in moving things across the country, perhaps it would open some minds? Besides, train travel would sure as hell be a lot safer than putting your life in the hands of some yah-ba cranked, idiot, pass-on-blind corners and hills bus driver trying to beat his best time from the last one. Perhaps with the surveying done 20 years ago, they have been trying to put together the environmental impact study together during this time. Otay, buh-wheat....let's don't hold our breadth on this. But keep those fingers crossed! ett

Regarding the priority of freight over passenger service in the U.S., it wasn't always like that. In earlier days, each railroad provided its own passenger service on its own lines. AMTRAK didn't exist. During those times, express (long distance) passenger service had priority over everything else, local passenger service was secondary to express (long distance) freight trains and local freight trains waited for everything else that moved. As the railroads found the passenger service less and less profitable, they quit offering that service and AMTRAK came on the scene and started operating their passenger services. At that time, AMTRAK didn't own any of their own lines (track) and leased track usage from the freight railroads. The track owners insisted on making freight services a higher priority in most cases. To this day, AMTRAK leases most of its line usage from existing railroads.

In Thailand, the railroad should be able to make passenger service a priority. The two systems (freight and passenger) will not be competing against different owners, I think. As long as the same management is in charge of both systems, it is easy to prioritize passenger service in the interest of supporting and promoting tourism and the every day person in Thailand. I can't see a few hours delay in freight delivery making a difference in such a small country. In the U.S., the overall delivery time difference for freight could increase by as much as a day or more because of the length of the country (3,000 miles, give or take) and the number of times a freight train could be delayed when diverted to a siding to make way for speeding passenger trains.

An anecdotal note here. Some years ago, perhaps ten years ago, I had a brilliant idea and sent an e-mail to AMTRAK about it. Surprisingly, they responded a few days later. My idea was to add a few car-carriers to each long distance passenger train and allow passengers to load their personal vehicles on those car carriers and the cars would make the trip with the passengers. Passengers would still ride in the passenger cars but they would have their cars full of all of their luggage and anything else they needed when they reached their destination . I thought it would be a very convenient thing to board a train and not have to rent a car for the family vacation or business trip when they arrived. And it would pay to transport the car as opposed to renting a car for a two week vacation on the other end. Excess baggage wouldn't be a problem, people could take the baby strollers and anything else that was needed. It would add fuel usage to the overall train trip for Amtrak but in the end, it would increase ridership (which is a big problem for AMTRAK, since day one) It would also slightly increase the time it takes to make the trip across the country but if it was done correctly, it wouldn't add much time. They could even offer one train with car carriers, one express train without. The fees charged for the transport of the cars should offset the fuel and manpower costs and add profit to the overall operation. Travelers would arrive well rested and have had a nice sightseeing trip on the way without worrying about who is driving and how much was spent on hotels during the cross country drive.

The trains in the US that go far east and west make very few stops these days. Maybe ten or so cities from Chicago to California. So, the train wouldn't be waiting for cars to be loaded and unloaded very often on the trip. The car-carriers could actually be loaded ahead of time and just be connected to the train by a switch engine as the passengers are loading and unloading. Disembarking cars, if loaded correctly on the right level of the three level car-carriers, could just as easily be driven off onto a waiting car carrier at each stop and then be delivered to the unloading dock by a switch engine while the train proceeds on its trip.

AMTRAK thanked me for my suggestion. They also said that they already have such a service that runs up and down the eastern seaboard lines. I have never seen that. They went on to say that the lines to the west would not support car-carriers because the car carriers are too tall. I don't know why they said that. Santa Fe, Burlington Northern and others run the tall, enclosed car-carriers all the way on their lines. They ship hundreds of thousands of new cars every year on those lines.

I would guess that the Thais will have a motorcycle car, where folks can store their cycles in racks for the trip. I would hope so. I don't know if they do that on their existing passenger lines or not.

[woralak]

It is interesting to note, that in other countries, such as the US, freight rules over passenger service. Railroads allocate certain times for Amtrak to get its run done and if they experience any tardiness, then they play hell trying to fit in the freight scheduling, hence why it is seldom on time. Seems like it is the other way around here...trains run relatively on-time...kind of like Grand Funk Railroad, eh? I am not near any railroads, so don't know how frequent or if at all, any freight trains run on them, as all I have seen when I did get the opportunity, was passenger trains. If someone told them to do the math on how much and how far one liter of fuel goes in moving things across the country, perhaps it would open some minds? Besides, train travel would sure as hell be a lot safer than putting your life in the hands of some yah-ba cranked, idiot, pass-on-blind corners and hills bus driver trying to beat his best time from the last one. Perhaps with the surveying done 20 years ago, they have been trying to put together the environmental impact study together during this time. Otay, buh-wheat....let's don't hold our breadth on this. But keep those fingers crossed! ett

Regarding the priority of freight over passenger service in the U.S., it wasn't always like that. In earlier days, each railroad provided its own passenger service on its own lines. AMTRAK didn't exist. During those times, express (long distance) passenger service had priority over everything else, local passenger service was secondary to express (long distance) freight trains and local freight trains waited for everything else that moved. As the railroads found the passenger service less and less profitable, they quit offering that service and AMTRAK came on the scene and started operating their passenger services. At that time, AMTRAK didn't own any of their own lines (track) and leased track usage from the freight railroads. The track owners insisted on making freight services a higher priority in most cases. To this day, AMTRAK leases most of its line usage from existing railroads.

In Thailand, the railroad should be able to make passenger service a priority. The two systems (freight and passenger) will not be competing against different owners, I think. As long as the same management is in charge of both systems, it is easy to prioritize passenger service in the interest of supporting and promoting tourism and the every day person in Thailand. I can't see a few hours delay in freight delivery making a difference in such a small country. In the U.S., the overall delivery time difference for freight could increase by as much as a day or more because of the length of the country (3,000 miles, give or take) and the number of times a freight train could be delayed when diverted to a siding to make way for speeding passenger trains.

An anecdotal note here. Some years ago, perhaps ten years ago, I had a brilliant idea and sent an e-mail to AMTRAK about it. Surprisingly, they responded a few days later. My idea was to add a few car-carriers to each long distance passenger train and allow passengers to load their personal vehicles on those car carriers and the cars would make the trip with the passengers. Passengers would still ride in the passenger cars but they would have their cars full of all of their luggage and anything else they needed when they reached their destination . I thought it would be a very convenient thing to board a train and not have to rent a car for the family vacation or business trip when they arrived. And it would pay to transport the car as opposed to renting a car for a two week vacation on the other end. Excess baggage wouldn't be a problem, people could take the baby strollers and anything else that was needed. It would add fuel usage to the overall train trip for Amtrak but in the end, it would increase ridership (which is a big problem for AMTRAK, since day one) It would also slightly increase the time it takes to make the trip across the country but if it was done correctly, it wouldn't add much time. They could even offer one train with car carriers, one express train without. The fees charged for the transport of the cars should offset the fuel and manpower costs and add profit to the overall operation. Travelers would arrive well rested and have had a nice sightseeing trip on the way without worrying about who is driving and how much was spent on hotels during the cross country drive.

The trains in the US that go far east and west make very few stops these days. Maybe ten or so cities from Chicago to California. So, the train wouldn't be waiting for cars to be loaded and unloaded very often on the trip. The car-carriers could actually be loaded ahead of time and just be connected to the train by a switch engine as the passengers are loading and unloading. Disembarking cars, if loaded correctly on the right level of the three level car-carriers, could just as easily be driven off onto a waiting car carrier at each stop and then be delivered to the unloading dock by a switch engine while the train proceeds on its trip.

AMTRAK thanked me for my suggestion. They also said that they already have such a service that runs up and down the eastern seaboard lines. I have never seen that. They went on to say that the lines to the west would not support car-carriers because the car carriers are too tall. I don't know why they said that. Santa Fe, Burlington Northern and others run the tall, enclosed car-carriers all the way on their lines. They ship hundreds of thousands of new cars every year on those lines.

I would guess that the Thais will have a motorcycle car, where folks can store their cycles in racks for the trip. I would hope so. I don't know if they do that on their existing passenger lines or not.

Very interesting Kd, don't know if the Thai's would take on board your insight and knowledge, very well put and thanks for sharing.

[PhayaoPete]

Headin' to the station with a pack on my back.....tired of transportation in the back of a hack.....I love to hear the rhythm of the clickity-clack...hear the lonesome whistle, see the smoke from the stack....ride around with democratic fellows named Mack, so.....take me right back to the track, Jack! Choo-choo....choo-choo-cha-boogie.....Asleep at the Wheel Let's get that train here! PP

[RedBullHorn]

Ok...Just Facts -- The treaty had already been sign and put in action, 5 countries - Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Laos and China. The agreedment is to link a railways track all the way from Singapore to China. Chiang Rai is going to be a boom town when the trains passes through, Laos border Boten and China border Yunnan and Sipsongpanna will be prosperous too. I went to Boten for a market survey trip on Febuary, the town have hotels, casinos and 4 lanes carriageways and lots of special service pretty girls .

And from China, another treaty was sign to build super highway linking up to Vietnam.

Edited May 25, 2011 by RedBullHorn

[pomchop]

A Thai friend of mine said: "this is a photo of Taksin's sister and praising that "thank you for dream come true" for allowing the train to come to CR from Denchai province. (Chiang Mai) which I think you already know

So the message is Vote for Taksins sister and your dreams will come true".

Not sure if that is correct translation or not... and please no flames re politics or Taksin etc...

Maybe someone else can ask a friend to translate the pictures/signs and see if this is correct.

[donger]

Those signs have been around since before Yingluck Shinawatra jumped into politics. And, the lady on that sign does not look like Yingluck, who is pictured below.

[pomchop]

Those signs have been around since before Yingluck Shinawatra jumped into politics. And, the lady on that sign does not look like Yingluck, who is pictured below.

Sure doesn't look like her to me either. So I wonder what the sign actually says?

[kandahar]

The person in the pic is a local woman from CR. She is involved in the CR government.

[kandahar]

I am told that the sign says, basically, thanks to the man who is making this happen. However, skepticism abounds and people say it is the same thing that has been publicized and pushed as a real deal for fifty years. In one form or another, it gets pushed out in front of the public periodically and each time is heralded as an accomplishment, even though it has yet to come to pass.

[chang35baht]

I am told that the sign says, basically, thanks to the man who is making this happen. However, skepticism abounds and people say it is the same thing that has been publicized and pushed as a real deal for fifty years. In one form or another, it gets pushed out in front of the public periodically and each time is heralded as an accomplishment, even though it has yet to come to pass.

Usually in times of elections to gain favour with the electorate. I think the lady in the picture is a local politician with various business interests in CR, not least of which is the continual pumping of sand out of the Namkok at various locations along the river.

Edited May 26, 2011 by chang35baht

[RedBullHorn]

It's her alright...Makeups do wonders~ But the first 2 picture is the picture of local politician, appointment is nayuk sor jaw or sor tor, something like that.

Edited May 26, 2011 by RedBullHorn

[donger]

Major parties all support plans for rail link from Denchai to Chiang Rai

By The Nationon Sunday<br style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; outline-style: none; outline-width: initial; outline-color: initial; list-style-type: none; text-decoration: none; ">Chiang Rai<br style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; outline-style: none; outline-width: initial; outline-color: initial; list-style-type: none; text-decoration: none; ">Published on May 29, 2011

Democrats, Pheu Thai, BJT say they would push to build line from Lamphun

Major political parties contesting for House seats in the July 3 election have promised to build the long-awaited Denchai-Chiang Rai railroad.

Kanok Wongtangarn, a party-list MP candidate from the Democrat Party, told a Nation Channel session in this northern province that the planned route, from Denchai in Lamphun province, would be further connected with southern China, Burma and Laos in later stages.

Wanchai Jongsuthanamanee, an MP candidate with Bhum Jai Thai Party, said residents had been waiting for the railway project for a long time but he would speed up the project's implementation if his party won a place in the next government.

The Transport Ministry, which was overseen by the party during the Abhisit-led coalition, had made preparations to seek a Bt174-million budget to conduct a feasibility study on the project.

A rail line from Denchai to Chiang Rai would help lower transport costs to and from this northern province and boost its competitiveness as a centre of a four-country-cross-border economic development area involving Thailand, China, Burma and Laos.

Kanok, of the Democrat Party, said caretaker prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva had also instructed the Finance Ministry to conduct a feasibility study on extending the route from Chiang Rai to the southern Chinese province of Yunnan.

There was a preliminary plan to link northern Thailand with southern China via a high-speed railway, he said, so as to boost trade and investment in the 10 northern-most provinces of Thailand.

Samart Kaewmeechai, an MP candidate from Pheu Thai party, said it was also ready to push for implementation of this railway project.

"However, we will do it as part of the high-speed train project from Bangkok to Chiang Mai and then Chiang Rai, Laos and southern China," he said.