A Farang Living In Thailand

[Ulysses G.]

I go in entertainment places and farang bars often and have only met a very few Westerners who speak Thai fluently. Joe Cummings who used to write the Thailand Lonely Planet is one and Raymond the German who speaks five languages is two and there is probablty someone else that I am forgetting.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[EirikJohannesen]

I go in entertainment places and farang bars often and have only met a very few Westerners who speak Thai fluently. Joe Cummings who used to write the Thailand Lonely Planet is one and Raymond the German who speaks five languages is two and there is probablty someone else that I am forgetting.

I speak 7 languages ​​and I must say it is terribly difficult to learn Thai, compared to other languages​​. I spent 6-7 years before I managed to master the Thai language 100%. Many say it is easier to learn new languages ​​when you can speak other languages​​, but it is not true in my opinion.

As I said itis not often we who speak Thai visiting entertainment places so itis not as easy to meet us.

[Naam]

Farang Living In Thailand - Do you really feel part of it?

why should i? is there any law that requires that i feel like part of it?

[Naam]

I speak 7 languages ​​and I must say it is terribly difficult to learn Thai, compared to other languages​​. I spent 6-7 years before I managed to master the Thai language 100%. Many say it is easier to learn new languages ​​when you can speak other languages​​, but it is not true in my opinion.

As I said itis not often we who speak Thai visiting entertainment places so itis not as easy to meet us.

today dear children we meet peope who make us smile because they are telling us good jokes

[EirikJohannesen]

I speak 7 languages ​​and I must say it is terribly difficult to learn Thai, compared to other languages​​. I spent 6-7 years before I managed to master the Thai language 100%. Many say it is easier to learn new languages ​​when you can speak other languages​​, but it is not true in my opinion.

As I said itis not often we who speak Thai visiting entertainment places so itis not as easy to meet us.

today dear children we meet peope who make us smile because they are telling us good jokes

I saw your name, and I thought, "Now it's something completely idiotic Coming!" And it did.

[EirikJohannesen]

Farang Living In Thailand - Do you really feel part of it?

why should i? is there any law that requires that i feel like part of it?

I have read many of your posts. You try to be a bully, but you do not succeed, To discuss with you,we have to lower us down many levels. And down at the bottom you are a winner, up here you are a Troll.

Edited June 12, 2011 by EirikJohannesen

[jdinasia]

I speak 7 languages ​​and I must say it is terribly difficult to learn Thai, compared to other languages​​. I spent 6-7 years before I managed to master the Thai language 100%. Many say it is easier to learn new languages ​​when you can speak other languages​​, but it is not true in my opinion.

As I said itis not often we who speak Thai visiting entertainment places so itis not as easy to meet us.

today dear children we meet peope who make us smile because they are telling us good jokes

Nowhere near as funny as a multi-lingual gardener though

[Naam]

I speak 7 languages ​​and I must say it is terribly difficult to learn Thai, compared to other languages​​. I spent 6-7 years before I managed to master the Thai language 100%. Many say it is easier to learn new languages ​​when you can speak other languages​​, but it is not true in my opinion.

As I said itis not often we who speak Thai visiting entertainment places so itis not as easy to meet us.

today dear children we meet peope who make us smile because they are telling us good jokes

Nowhere near as funny as a multi-lingual gardener though

the slight difference is that multi-lingual gardeners do exist

[phutoie2]

Farang Living In Thailand - Do you really feel part of it?

why should i? is there any law that requires that i feel like part of it?

I have read many of your posts. You try to be a bully, but you do not succeed, To discuss with you,we have to lower us down many levels. And down at the bottom you are a winner, up here you are a Troll.

Naam is known to many of us through the business, house and motoring forums, his views are repected by many as opposed to your rambling fiction these last few days.

You seem to be obsessed with poorly educated farangs marrying bar girls, so what, its not your business, - get some help!.

Not too much hoop kissing there I hope Dr.

spelling edit!

Edited June 12, 2011 by phutoie2

[Gary A]

I knew a Brit who spoke fluent Thai, he was of the opinion that his Thai skills were perfect. The problem was that many Thais didn't understand him. He would get very upset and angry and criticize them for not knowing their own language. I asked him a number of times why they could understand each other perfectly but they didn't understand him. He said that he spoke proper Thai and they didn't.

[Trembly]

Maybe Thailand is fed up by Frang that will not integrate into society, farang who insist on living western lifestyles, refuses to learn the language, refuses to comply with visa regulations, etc.

Maybe it will be easier for us farang living here when we begin to correct us by the host's rules and culture.

Thailand has always had big problems with immigrants that cause the country great economic losses and crime.

If you want to make money here so you should have a work permit.

Quite often Thais don't like it if a farang can speak Thai. They have a real yokel mentality

Sorry but I'm finding it difficult to believe this (outside of the bar / tourist shopping / scam context where a farang's knowledge of Thai is an obvious handicap to those trying to extract money from farang). Care to elaborate?

[Richard4849]

Read Stickman's column today about going out to an all-Thai nightclub. Sounds pretty friendly to me. People should get out of the ghetto more.

[kerryk]

Read Stickman's column today about going out to an all-Thai nightclub. Sounds pretty friendly to me. People should get out of the ghetto more.

You mean the Stickman column which is the most widely read online / expat column in Thailand

And did he write this week. “Imagine some of the best artists in Thailand performing live and imagine – and I exaggerate not – that 2/3 of the customers are female, and 95% are aged early 20s to late 30s, and imagine, if you will, that not only are a good percentage open-minded to meeting a white man, but you and your mate are the only two white guys in the place!

They say that Thai men aren't keen on Westerners coming and taking their women, but where the middle classes are found, local guys are eager to pair you off with a local lass.

Girls from one table jump in between you and the girl you're dancing with, it's the Thai way, how they famously yang-gun over a guy - try and pull one guy from another girl. if you didn't come with her, you're fair game.”

[Trembly]

Are there any Thais (born and raised) here?

Im very curious about how we come out when a Thai has read through this entire thread.

I just tried to do it, same time trying to put myself in one of my friends' place.

How would he think of us, reading this and the other threads.

Not easy of course, but one thing struck me.

I have feeling we come out as a bit arrogant to the Thais.

A bit "know it all", and, I'm here to teach you becomming a proper world citizen.

Maybe not intended to, but I think most of us come out like that sometimes.

How do we threat the foreigners in our own home countries?

That is an easy study.

History has proven again and again when a country experience hardship with a lot of lost jobs especially, the foreigners are the first to be blamed.

Populistic ideas regarding anti immigration and so on from politicians catch on in the society.

In the end of the day, a person, no matter what country, will only accept a foreigner as long as they dont bother them in any way.

I am one such Thai.

As long as you know what's going on and are able to communicate (verbally and / or behaviourally) the fact that you know what's going on around you in a manner that can be processed by Thais then you'll be accepted . . . because you've just made it acceptable for them to take you as seriously as most other Thais. Aping received wisdom will be as effective as a broken clock.

Thailand is capricious, whimsical and at times quite pleasant about it. In virtually any given situation, if they like the cut of your jib they will try to stream you in and help you if they think that its worth the personal effort. Where you're from and what you look like becomes irrelevant (like it does virtually anywhere else, funnily enough). If anyone tries to tell you that it's because relevant at this stage of cultural intercourse then that person is selling you a cop-out.

Bigots and mongs notwithstanding of course.

Edit : formatting and spellung.

Edit : Apologies for the multiple posts! Browser problems.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Trembly

[DP25]

Read Stickman's column today about going out to an all-Thai nightclub. Sounds pretty friendly to me. People should get out of the ghetto more.

I thought only tourists took that site seriously. As someone who almost exclusively goes to Thai discos I guarantee that loads of chicks aren't going to be fighting over and jumping in front of the other chicks to dance with middle aged white dudes, unless it's a couple hookers on a night off. Not to say that you can't meet people, but the picture he paints is completely unrealistic.

[kerryk]

Read Stickman's column today about going out to an all-Thai nightclub. Sounds pretty friendly to me. People should get out of the ghetto more.

I thought only tourists took that site seriously. As someone who almost exclusively goes to Thai discos I guarantee that loads of chicks aren't going to be fighting over and jumping in front of the other chicks to dance with middle aged white dudes, unless it's a couple hookers on a night off. Not to say that you can't meet people, but the picture he paints is completely unrealistic.

I agree after reading both you and Stickman for five years you are obviously the better informed of the two. Did you read the column? He was talking about a live entertainment venue as opposed to a disco. But I am not an expert. I don't like Discos but I do go to Thai live music places where I am often the only Farang and that has been my experience.

[Richard4849]

Read Stickman's column today about going out to an all-Thai nightclub. Sounds pretty friendly to me. People should get out of the ghetto more.

I thought only tourists took that site seriously. As someone who almost exclusively goes to Thai discos I guarantee that loads of chicks aren't going to be fighting over and jumping in front of the other chicks to dance with middle aged white dudes, unless it's a couple hookers on a night off. Not to say that you can't meet people, but the picture he paints is completely unrealistic.

I didn't know that tourists were even aware of the site. It's directed mostly at expats.

[Trembly]

Read Stickman's column today about going out to an all-Thai nightclub. Sounds pretty friendly to me. People should get out of the ghetto more.

I thought only tourists took that site seriously. As someone who almost exclusively goes to Thai discos I guarantee that loads of chicks aren't going to be fighting over and jumping in front of the other chicks to dance with middle aged white dudes, unless it's a couple hookers on a night off. Not to say that you can't meet people, but the picture he paints is completely unrealistic.

I'd say that it was a rosy but certainly not unrealistic (depends on sort of white dude you are though, I suppose).

[Beetlejuice]

Are there any Thais (born and raised) here?

Im very curious about how we come out when a Thai has read through this entire thread.

I just tried to do it, same time trying to put myself in one of my friends' place.

How would he think of us, reading this and the other threads.

Not easy of course, but one thing struck me.

I have feeling we come out as a bit arrogant to the Thais.

A bit "know it all", and, I'm here to teach you becomming a proper world citizen.

Maybe not intended to, but I think most of us come out like that sometimes.

How do we threat the foreigners in our own home countries?

That is an easy study.

History has proven again and again when a country experience hardship with a lot of lost jobs especially, the foreigners are the first to be blamed.

Populistic ideas regarding anti immigration and so on from politicians catch on in the society.

In the end of the day, a person, no matter what country, will only accept a foreigner as long as they dont bother them in any way.

I am one such Thai.

As long as you know what's going on and are able to communicate (verbally and / or behaviourally) the fact that you know what's going on around you in a manner that can be processed by Thais then you'll be accepted . . . because you've just made it acceptable for them to take you as seriously as most other Thais. Aping received wisdom will be as effective as a broken clock.

Thailand is capricious, whimsical and at times quite pleasant about it. In virtually any given situation, if they like the cut of your jib they will try to stream you in and help you if they think that its worth the personal effort. Where you're from and what you look like becomes irrelevant (like it does virtually anywhere else, funnily enough). If anyone tries to tell you that it's because relevant at this stage of cultural intercourse then that person is selling you a cop-out.

Bigots and mongs notwithstanding of course.

Edit : formatting and spellung.

Edit : Apologies for the multiple posts! Browser problems.

You make some very good points here.

In England during the mid 1960s and 1970s, there was a lot of prejudice against black and South Asian people. Even more so in the United States, with they’re still viewing them as slaves’ mentality.

Companies were reluctant to take them on and some employees even refused to work with blacks.

Then later on the company I worked for began hiring a few blacks. We used to jokingly call them the token blacks just to make it seem that the company was doing it`s bit for race relations.

But after working with them for only 1 year, they began to integrate with us extremely well and although this may sound stupid, we actually did not see them as blacks anymore, but rather as workmates on an equal basis and as part of the team.

So I suppose maybe the Thais after a time begin to view the novelty white honkey as just another neighbour getting on with his/her business in the area.

Never thought of it like that before, thanks for making me aware of these facts.

[Bizz]

As I can see all the bull shit has been ploughed through already.

All I can say is I live at times in a foreign country I try to live and obey its constitution as best I can as a foreigner

I stress the word because people you do forget and go on and on about this and this.

Iv been mousing around for nearly 8 years and trust me Just try and get on with the people who live here.

[Naam]

Farang Living In Thailand - Do you really feel part of it?

why should i? is there any law that requires that i feel like part of it?

I have read many of your posts. You try to be a bully, but you do not succeed, To discuss with you,we have to lower us down many levels. And down at the bottom you are a winner, up here you are a Troll.

originally trolls hail from a scandinavian area. but i wouldn't give you the benefit and assume you possess the cleverness of a troll. now go back to your corner and "master" your Thai 100%, e.g. "teerak what lunch today? habb pla or mu? mee no rike Issaan food to mutt!"

[Forethat]

I speak 7 languages ​​and I must say it is terribly difficult to learn Thai, compared to other languages​​. I spent 6-7 years before I managed to master the Thai language 100%. Many say it is easier to learn new languages ​​when you can speak other languages​​, but it is not true in my opinion.

As I said itis not often we who speak Thai visiting entertainment places so itis not as easy to meet us.

today dear children we meet peope who make us smile because they are telling us good jokes

Nowhere near as funny as a multi-lingual gardener though

the slight difference is that multi-lingual gardeners do exist

I don’t think anyone is surprised over the fact that he speaks multiple languages, but the speed at which he went from being bilingual to trilingual to multilingual was nothing short of impressive. Good old Eirik spent 6 years to master Thai 100% but your gardener picked up 2 languages in a matter of weeks...even yourself lost count of how many languages he spoke. Edited June 12, 2011 by Forethat

[endure]

Although over the years I have tried my best to become assimilated into Thai society, I have found because of the us and them attitudes of the Thai leadership and the Thai general public towards Westerners, that this is never going to be possible.

I still love living in Thailand and have a admiral respect for the country and it`s people, but I stopped living in a make believe Thailand some time ago and came to realise that how ever much I try, I can never really fit in.

You're from Jamaica. Now just replace the word 'Thai' with the word 'English' and the word 'Thailand' with the word 'England'.

[Naam]

I don’t think anyone is surprised over the fact that he speaks multiple languages, but the speed at which he went from being bilingual to trilingual to multilingual was nothing short of impressive. Good old Eirik spent 6 years to master Thai 100% but your gardener picked up 2 languages in a matter of weeks...even yourself lost count of how many languages he spoke.

it is non of my interest to enquire which languages members of our staff speak if neither my wife nor me are able to use them.

besides, it would be utmost silly to ask a gardener, hired in Thailand to take care of a garden in Thailand, whether he speaks German, French, Spanish, Portuguese or Italian.

having been hired initially as a gardener only his knowledge of english was important. we found out his language skills at a much later stage when he married our maid, joined her as a live-in and is now doing more inside than outside work. for what it's worth, the final count of his languages is 5 (five), two of them mother tongues, one is passable English.

next!

[gregb]

Then later on the company I worked for began hiring a few blacks. We used to jokingly call them the token blacks just to make it seem that the company was doing it`s bit for race relations.

But after working with them for only 1 year, they began to integrate with us extremely well and although this may sound stupid, we actually did not see them as blacks anymore, but rather as workmates on an equal basis and as part of the team.

This is where multicultural relations start to become interesting, and is something I have reflected on at length, so forgive the long post. You see, at work it is easy to integrate and become office friends. You work in the same shared environment, are expected to conform to the same rules and hierarchy, and generally interact in a known and common manner. I think the same is true of most farangs who work in a Thai office. They get along beautifully at work.

But now, let us take your experience a bit further. Assume your black colleagues were from a native African culture and practiced extremely "foreign" (from your perspective) cultural rituals at home. Is the average white guy going to be falling all over himself to become that black coworker's best friend outside the office? Most likely, no. Some people will of course. There are people who truly enjoy diversity and new cultural experiences. But for the most part, where you share a common environment, friendships are possible. When you leave the confines of that environment for the wider world, people simply stay with their own with whom they feel the most comfortable.

Farangs in Thailand are known to be confrontational, which is a trait Thais try to avoid at all costs. While many of them even learn to accept this in the office, at home they enjoy the comfort of their traditional upbringing. And it is very, very difficult for Westerners to shake off their own cultural proclivities. I have been here well over a decade, and I still find it very difficult to refrain from calling a spade a spade when I see it, and to swallow my immediate reactions and learn the art of subtle influence the way the Thais seem to do without effort. They have an innate sense of when a lie is appropriate, and how to interpret it when another person is obviously lying to them. I just don't have that capability. I tend to favor honesty. That is not something that endears me to the local population.

Westerners are all products of the Enlightenment. We can blame the French for that. Even if we don't recognize it, we are all subtly influenced by that belief that we should strive to transcend our ignorance and embrace diversity. We don't actually do it of course, but our mannerisms consider things that strive for that ideal to be good, and practices that ignore this moral imperative to be somehow unjust. Thais most spectacularly do not have this same guiding principle as a part of their culture. After more than a decade I can't really boil down what it is that drives them, but whatever it is, that principle is what allows them to accept the existing social structure based on patronage, that corruption is not the evil we think it is, and for many, the idea that money, no matter the manner it was obtained, is always a good. Not everyone assumes the latter of course, but enough of the population have this belief that some generalizations can clearly be made.

What this all means is that you need to recognize where your cultural boundaries are when living in Thailand. It may be possible to integrate completely with Thais, but in doing so, you will necessarily abandon a part of yourself that allows you to feel comfortable in your birth country. That may take decades, and is certainly much easier done when you are young. So those people who are retired, and thus have hours of free time to spend commenting on this board, will probably never be able to be accepted into Thai culture. That means we need to expect a bias on this board. Even if you understand the language, the roots of the culture are extremely foreign.

Farangs can be partially accepted in Thailand. Mostly in the work place. It is difficult to be accepted into the wider fabric of society though. It doesn't mean that Thais are xenophobic, as I so often see people say. Indeed, cultures that are closer to their own are readily accepted. I know many, many Chinese who learn Thai fluently and seem to integrate much better than Westerners. I know a Korean who has been here 30 years who even the Thais think is a just a Thai with some foreign lineage they can't quite place. So it is possible for foreigners. Farangs are just too different though. Much like ethnic African blacks in the US, and in a country that doesn't hold diversity as a moral good.

For myself though, I am willing to accept this, and hope my children can learn the Thai values well enough to be accepted. As the age of European imperialism draws to a close, Asia looks to be the new dominant global player in its ascendancy. I want my children to be a bridge between the old world and the new one. At home to the maximum extent possible in either hemisphere. That is probably the major reason I call Thailand home, even if I know my thoughts are just too alien to ever really be Thai.

[PrettyGreen]

^^ Sounds like you have a well balanced view, good read and good for you.

[IanForbes]

I don't think anyone is surprised over the fact that he speaks multiple languages, but the speed at which he went from being bilingual to trilingual to multilingual was nothing short of impressive. Good old Eirik spent 6 years to master Thai 100% but your gardener picked up 2 languages in a matter of weeks...even yourself lost count of how many languages he spoke.

it is non of my interest to enquire which languages members of our staff speak if neither my wife nor me are able to use them.

besides, it would be utmost silly to ask a gardener, hired in Thailand to take care of a garden in Thailand, whether he speaks German, French, Spanish, Portuguese or Italian.

having been hired initially as a gardener only his knowledge of english was important. we found out his language skills at a much later stage when he married our maid, joined her as a live-in and is now doing more inside than outside work. for what it's worth, the final count of his languages is 5 (five), two of them mother tongues, one is passable English.

next!

Ah yes, but it's fun teasing you about it.

I'm amazed at how quickly some young Thais learn passable English and other languages. They learn much faster than this old fart learns Thai. I know a young Thai woman who speaks fair English but always apologizes for her lack of language skills. But, when she met a cute young Frenchman she started studying French. Within two weeks she was doing quite well and far better than I did when I had to learn French in school after 2 years of studying..

[IanForbes]

Great post, gregb, I agree with you entirely. Your post should be framed and be required reading by anyone coming to Thailand. :jap:

[trisailer]

I feel most of the time as an outsider but tolerate that for all the good things that brought me here.Just this week I had an eye opener of what people here really think of me. I take thai language lessons every night and feel my thai is improving. But every time I speak thai to my friends who are thai they look at me like what did you say and act confused. I feel I cannot communicate. Then last week I was in Bangkok and tried my thai on everyone I met and it worked perfectly I had decent conversations. I mentioned this to my Thai teacher.He said they probably look at me as their stupid farang friend and when I talk thai to them they just refuse to talk thai because they feel I am to stupid to carry on a conversation so why try. Nice friends huh. Gives me the feeling they patronise me rather than befriend me.

Help me to understand how your inability to communicate "with your Thai friends" squares with another comment of yours that "because of my outlook on things all my friends in Thailand are respected Thais."

Perhaps your Thai "friends" are aware of your contempt for Thailand and are not interested in your criticism of their country. Which is it? You claim to have "respectable Thai friends" but apparently they don't respect you. I wonder why.

[StreetCowboy]

I feel most of the time as an outsider but tolerate that for all the good things that brought me here.Just this week I had an eye opener of what people here really think of me. I take thai language lessons every night and feel my thai is improving. But every time I speak thai to my friends who are thai they look at me like what did you say and act confused. I feel I cannot communicate. Then last week I was in Bangkok and tried my thai on everyone I met and it worked perfectly I had decent conversations. I mentioned this to my Thai teacher.He said they probably look at me as their stupid farang friend and when I talk thai to them they just refuse to talk thai because they feel I am to stupid to carry on a conversation so why try. Nice friends huh. Gives me the feeling they patronise me rather than befriend me.

Help me to understand how your inability to communicate "with your Thai friends" squares with another comment of yours that "because of my outlook on things all my friends in Thailand are respected Thais."

Perhaps your Thai "friends" are aware of your contempt for Thailand and are not interested in your criticism of their country. Which is it? You claim to have "respectable Thai friends" but apparently they don't respect you. I wonder why.

I think he's just over-sensitive. Maybe his Thai teacher was just seeing if he could take a joke. Thais don't realise that we may be very vulnerable and sensitive, and that our sense of humour may differ from theirs. Maybe they should be more sensitive to our feelings, and leave some things unsaid

SC

Edit: grammatical error corrected

Edited June 14, 2011 by StreetCowboy