A Farang Living In Thailand

[F1fanatic]

I'll just continue wearing the rose coloured glasses I've worn for 15 years and spend time with my Thai friends, and take the kids swimming in the river. I get pleasure out of watching them grow up. I'll leave all the complaining to others who always find something to complain about. If the children accept me then that is all that matters.

Yes, as long as you're not giving the family money (and continue this way), then as long as they involve you in their life - they're true friends.

[jdinasia]

3 cheers for F1 --- she has now managed to stop insulting all Thais and limit it to just 30%+

Though I still find it offensive to label people on such a large scale and Awohalitsiktoli is clearly over the line on forum rules.

Thank you but - if you'd bothered reading my posts properly you would have realised that I've pretty much always said that I knew a couple of Thais that I liked.

Recently I've been lucky enough to meet another, but I still doubt any of them will become TRUE friends. Who knows what the future will bring though?

And meanwhile you can always continue believing that anybody who airs an opinion different to your own is just "offensive".

You are entitled to whatever opinion you may have as is Awoha.... however, if it labels all Thais (or the vast majority etc .... in a negative way then you are not entitled to post your opinion here.

7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

8) Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais.

and yes your blanket statements about the Thai wives of farang in Thailand and Awoha's blanket statements about Thais violate that basic premise of civility. I do concur with your observation that you are unlikely to develop any "TRUE friends" that are Thai. I have several "TRUE friends" that are Thai and many others that fall into the close friend category.

[F1fanatic]

Aaah, and now we get the truth - you think derogatory opinions should not be allowed....

Fair enough. Personally I think those who post about our 'paradise' shouldn't be allowed either .

[jdinasia]

Rubbish, just the usual long winded reply from the rose tinted chapter who claim to have real Thai friends etc.

Surprised the usual "if you do'nt like it here, why do'nt you leave" line was not added.

Just because somebody else sees Thais in a different light does not make it wrong.

I also live amongst real Thais - whatever that is supposed to mean!

hmmmm

Was the internal conflict present in your post intentionally ironic, or was it just that you didn't think before you hit the post button?

Just because somebody else sees Thais in a different light does not make it wrong.

preceded by ......

Rubbish, just the usual long winded reply from the rose tinted chapter who claim to have real Thai friends etc.

and yes MANY of us have real Thai friends etc. If you don't then it may be appropriate to look at why you do not

[Beetlejuice]

Rubbish, just the usual long winded reply from the rose tinted chapter who claim to have real Thai friends etc.

Surprised the usual "if you do'nt like it here, why do'nt you leave" line was not added.

Just because somebody else sees Thais in a different light does not make it wrong.

I also live amongst real Thais - whatever that is supposed to mean!

In life, some people love us, some people like us, some don`t like us and others detest us. That’s the same the world over.

There are always going to be prejudices of some sorts, even more so if we are in a minority group, such as farangs living among the Thais.

No different to how we consider foreigners of other races and other cultures in our own countries.

As least by living in a foreign land as foreigners, we get to experience how it feels and perhaps these experiences will give us better understandings and make us nicer people if we return to our home countries.

Maybe those who find this difficult to cope with should return to where they feel more accepted, because it`s never going to change, well, not in our lifetimes anyway.

Going back to my original post, these are the reasons that make me sometimes get a yeaning for home and becoming a whitey again rather than a farang, but as I said, only sometimes.

We all know some of the attitudes of the Thai people towards us, and I mean some, far from all, but it my case this certainly does not make me want to pack my bags and take the next flight out.

We either cope with our lives here the way it is, or we don`t and no point in mentioning the not so good points about the Thais, because we already know, it`s how we learn to adjust into our environments here that matters.

[jdinasia]

Aaah, and now we get the truth - you think derogatory opinions should not be allowed....

Fair enough. Personally I think those who post about our 'paradise' shouldn't be allowed either .

Nope --- I posted what the rules YOU agreed to when you joined stated.

Thailand isn't a 'paradise' it is a country and like all countries it has both good and bad --- the extremely negative posters (about Thai people) come across as bigots (I'd use the word racists, but Thais are a nationality not a race.)

I didn't make the rules that you agreed to when you joined ... and attempting to abide by those rules would seem to be acting ethically --- not abiding by them would seem to be acting unethically.

I have many derogatory opinions about some things that happen in Thailand. I am just honest enough not to try and paint all Thais because of the actions of a few. Example --- when I first moved here the traffic cops in Hua Hin would hit me up for a cash payment quite often. That doesn't make all cops in Hua Hin bad ... it doesn't even make all traffic cops in Hua Hin bad! After just a short while there I became drinking buddies with 5 Thais that lived in my small moo baan. We didn't become close friends (I couldn't speak Thai -- their English was bad but better than my Thai language skills) but we became drinking buddies every-other Friday night. After a couple of weeks I found out that they were all plain-clothes cops. I was given a card by one of them and I stopped paying tickets to traffic police. I was never asked for anything from them, we were just casual friends.

As my skill with a new language increased, so did my ability to make real friends. Some people don't have much in the way of street-smarts and get taken in by anyone they meet and then blame everyone for it. Not only is that not fair to the VAST majority of Thais, it is also simply avoidance of the real issue of the person's innate naiveté. Some people are born victims and never get out of that self-induced trap. Other people take life as they find it and tend to find good things more than bad

[Naam]

I agree with your sentiments, but am sure that 'generally', Thais living in non-tourist areas (other than Isaan) are decent, hard-working, respectable people.

Unfortunately most of us only meet those who have migrated to tourist areas or those that are making a living out of farangs.

It comes as a refreshing relief every now and again to meet local Thais (in tourist areas) who are genuinely nice.

i live since seven years in a tourist area (Pattaya) and claim that i have met more honest Thais then Farangs. perhaps my experience/opinion is not representative because i live a rather secluded life and try to avoid contact with both "categories" as much as possible.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

And why can't any of you read? I also said: "Of course, I am generalizing (not all Thais are this way),..." It is a reality that Thai society is saturated by corruption. Where have you been? It is, in fact, a hot political topic at the moment. Thais fully understand it. It is interesting that farangs do not You are really a sucker if you think Thais will not cheat you or are not looking for a way to cheat you. Good luck with that dream. And, in case you think I am racists, I am far from it. I know what it is like to be discriminated against. I also do not feel the same about other Asians like Japanese, Koreans, Singaporeans, Chinese, and Malaysians, all of which I see as far superior to Thais in many ways. Perhaps, in part, it is the poverty in Thailand that breeds such terrible behavior.

Maybe they cant read Thai, love those Chumvit (Number 5) posters that are everywhere right now.

Good point as his posters are everywhere and he is saying what the vast majority of Thais know to be true: corruption is endemic in Thailand and needs to be stopped. There is a culture of corruption in Thailand that turns a blind eye to and even supports lying, stealing, cheating, etc. It is much worse here than in many other places. It is endemic and widespread in Thailand.

[Ulysses G.]

Some people don't have much in the way of street-smarts and get taken in by anyone they meet and then blame everyone for it. Not only is that not fair to the VAST majority of Thais, it is also simply avoidance of the real issue of the person's innate naiveté. Some people are born victims and never get out of that self-induced trap. Other people take life as they find it and tend to find good things more than bad

Too true.

I live and work in the middle of the tourist area and know lots of good, honest Thais that I have obseved for many years. I am not saying that there are no bad ones. There are bad people everywhere, but there are a lot more good ones than bad ones and that includes the tourist areas.

[F1fanatic]

Aaah, and now we get the truth - you think derogatory opinions should not be allowed....

Fair enough. Personally I think those who post about our 'paradise' shouldn't be allowed either .

Nope --- I posted what the rules YOU agreed to when you joined stated.

Thailand isn't a 'paradise' it is a country and like all countries it has both good and bad --- the extremely negative posters (about Thai people) come across as bigots (I'd use the word racists, but Thais are a nationality not a race.)

I didn't make the rules that you agreed to when you joined ... and attempting to abide by those rules would seem to be acting ethically --- not abiding by them would seem to be acting unethically.

I have many derogatory opinions about some things that happen in Thailand. I am just honest enough not to try and paint all Thais because of the actions of a few. Example --- when I first moved here the traffic cops in Hua Hin would hit me up for a cash payment quite often. That doesn't make all cops in Hua Hin bad ... it doesn't even make all traffic cops in Hua Hin bad! After just a short while there I became drinking buddies with 5 Thais that lived in my small moo baan. We didn't become close friends (I couldn't speak Thai -- their English was bad but better than my Thai language skills) but we became drinking buddies every-other Friday night. After a couple of weeks I found out that they were all plain-clothes cops. I was given a card by one of them and I stopped paying tickets to traffic police. I was never asked for anything from them, we were just casual friends.

As my skill with a new language increased, so did my ability to make real friends. Some people don't have much in the way of street-smarts and get taken in by anyone they meet and then blame everyone for it. Not only is that not fair to the VAST majority of Thais, it is also simply avoidance of the real issue of the person's innate naiveté. Some people are born victims and never get out of that self-induced trap. Other people take life as they find it and tend to find good things more than bad

You're right. This shouldn't be an ex-pat forum airing negative views from time to time.

[Beetlejuice]

Aaah, and now we get the truth - you think derogatory opinions should not be allowed....

Fair enough. Personally I think those who post about our 'paradise' shouldn't be allowed either .

Nope --- I posted what the rules YOU agreed to when you joined stated.

Thailand isn't a 'paradise' it is a country and like all countries it has both good and bad --- the extremely negative posters (about Thai people) come across as bigots (I'd use the word racists, but Thais are a nationality not a race.)

I didn't make the rules that you agreed to when you joined ... and attempting to abide by those rules would seem to be acting ethically --- not abiding by them would seem to be acting unethically.

I have many derogatory opinions about some things that happen in Thailand. I am just honest enough not to try and paint all Thais because of the actions of a few. Example --- when I first moved here the traffic cops in Hua Hin would hit me up for a cash payment quite often. That doesn't make all cops in Hua Hin bad ... it doesn't even make all traffic cops in Hua Hin bad! After just a short while there I became drinking buddies with 5 Thais that lived in my small moo baan. We didn't become close friends (I couldn't speak Thai -- their English was bad but better than my Thai language skills) but we became drinking buddies every-other Friday night. After a couple of weeks I found out that they were all plain-clothes cops. I was given a card by one of them and I stopped paying tickets to traffic police. I was never asked for anything from them, we were just casual friends.

As my skill with a new language increased, so did my ability to make real friends. Some people don't have much in the way of street-smarts and get taken in by anyone they meet and then blame everyone for it. Not only is that not fair to the VAST majority of Thais, it is also simply avoidance of the real issue of the person's innate naiveté. Some people are born victims and never get out of that self-induced trap. Other people take life as they find it and tend to find good things more than bad

You're right. This shouldn't be an ex-pat forum airing negative views from time to time.

.

[Forethat]

Maybe they cant read Thai, love those Chumvit (Number 5) posters that are everywhere right now.

lol, thought I was the only one who laughed at that guy. Love the poster with the baby - the guy looks as if the baby just did a bear dump... Edited June 18, 2011 by Forethat

[Ulysses G.]

...airing negative views from time to time.

From "time to time".

[IanForbes]

As my skill with a new language increased, so did my ability to make real friends. Some people don't have much in the way of street-smarts and get taken in by anyone they meet and then blame everyone for it. Not only is that not fair to the VAST majority of Thais, it is also simply avoidance of the real issue of the person's innate naiveté. Some people are born victims and never get out of that self-induced trap. Other people take life as they find it and tend to find good things more than bad

As Ulysses already pointed out, that paragraph should be required reading for everyone coming to Thailand.

However, it doesn't bother me in the least if people are trying to scam me. I have the CHOICE to say yes or no to a request. I know the Thai family I help out probably care more about the money than my friendship, but it is the children I want to help. I couldn't give a fig about the adults. Children are pretty open. They either like you or they don't. I would say that when a 13 year old boy and his 11 year old sister CHOOSE to hold me by the hand when we go for a walk then they ARE showing affection. It's not fake. If I had beaten my Canadian kids and grand kids, and treated them poorly then they wouldn't like me. But, I was a good parent and now have a close relationship to all my kids. It's not because of what I gave them, but has EVERYTHING about how I treated them. It is the same with the Thai children.

I have a young Thai friend who I go fishing with. I don't give him anything other than my friendship. We e-mail each other while I'm away in Canada and hang out occasionally when I'm in Thailand. As I am much older than him we don't have everything in common, but that doesn't matter, we are still friends. And, it's true with many other middle class Thais I know. I get treated to free meals and drinks more by them than I ever treat them.

I get tired of hearing how ALL Thais are ONLY after a farang's money. If we CHOOSE to give it then they would be foolish not to take it. And, as I've said before, a 100 baht bribe to a Thai policeman is a whole lot cheaper than a 6000 baht fine I would get in Canada for the same offense.

[IanForbes]

...airing negative views from time to time.

From "time to time".

Well, you know, George,... "Occassionally" :lol:

[surayu]

[ozzieovaseas]

...airing negative views from time to time.

From "time to time".

Yes, and of course certain expat females seem to harbour a very dim view of EVERY expat male in Thailand too..

Actually it seems the female sexpats rubbish the male sexpats more than the male sexpats rubbish the bargirls

[Naam]

Good point as his posters are everywhere and he is saying what the vast majority of Thais know to be true: corruption is endemic in Thailand and needs to be stopped. There is a culture of corruption in Thailand that turns a blind eye to and even supports lying, stealing, cheating, etc. It is much worse here than in many other places. It is endemic and widespread in Thailand.

some people (like me) appreciate corruption facilitation because it makes life in many respects much easier. having lived and worked for years in countries with a level of corruption facilitation that makes Thai circumstances look like as if applied by altar boys i'm somehow missing that situation here and leave the bitching to the holier than thou guys.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

To be more accurate, if they represent most of the farangs posting here, they should both be wearing rose-colored glasses. About getting tired of farangscomplaining about getting ripped off. The way to hear fewer complaints is to warn farangs they are walking targets. What you should not do is bury your head in the sand and pretend it is not happening. Corruption, lying, and cheating are endemic and widespread in Thailand. Farangs are prime targets. It starts the minute you walk outside of the airport doors.

[Ulysses G.]

To be more accurate, if they represent most of the farangs posting here, they should both be wearing rose-colored glasses.

Don't forget sh*t smeared glasses for the constant moaners.

Edited June 19, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

To be more accurate, if they represent most of the farangs posting here, they should both be wearing rose-colored glasses.

Don't forget sh*t smeared glasses for the constant moaners.

I wonder how many Thais would label #5, Chuwit as a "constant moaner" in order to minimize the truth of what he is saying or divert attention away from the real problem. He is saying exactly what I am saying, except he does not add the part about farangs being cheated (that part is obvious to anybody who does not have his head up his a-hole). The unproductive and confrontational comments here made me think of a conversation I recently had with a Chinese-Thai woman. If you think I have negative things to say about Thais, try talking to a Thai-Chinese about what they think about Thais Ignore reality if you want to--put on a darker shade of rose-colored glasses But that will not make the problems of corruption, lying and cheating go away. And it will do nothing to help farangs from getting cheated.

[Richard4849]

Chuvit is an ass. He's a millionaire many times over thanks to corruption and pimping Thai women -- now he has the nerve to rail against it.

[Berkshire]

And why can't any of you read? I also said: "Of course, I am generalizing (not all Thais are this way),..." It is a reality that Thai society is saturated by corruption. Where have you been? It is, in fact, a hot political topic at the moment. Thais fully understand it.

Awoh, you are really talking from two sides of your mouth. Of course Thais are aware of it. They don't like it, do they? Because they too are the victims. Educated Thais know that corruption stifles progress. The majority of Thais don't like it but are powerless to do anything about it. If all or even the majority of Thais were engaged in it, they wouldn't really be complaining, would they? I believe the average Thai is just as honest as the average farang, considering the circumstances. Consider this:

You've brought up the point of America being less corrupt, or Americans in general. America has the means and resources to combat corruption, much more so than Thailand or any developing country. There are regulators watching the regulators. Yet, there is still massive corruption in the US, and at the highest levels. Much more sophisticated, of course, to ensure that sheeps like you still believe in law and order. I don't even have to go back to the S&L crisis or Enron. Do you know how the 2008 Financial Crisis started? You know, the one that's contributing to governments around the world going bankrupt. Do you know who's involved? Not just the banks, but the accountants, lawyers, SEC, Treasury, rating agencies....the list is long, but distinguished. You guys complain about being taken for a couple of hundred baht by rogue cops, or dual-pricing in Thailand. The American public got fleeced to the tune of several hundred billion dollars, if not trillions. Who's being naive, really?

[andrewbkk]

I know the Thai family I help out probably care more about the money than my friendship, but it is the children I want to help. I couldn't give a fig about the adults. Children are pretty open. They either like you or they don't. I would say that when a 13 year old boy and his 11 year old sister CHOOSE to hold me by the hand when we go for a walk then they ARE showing affection.

I would encourage you to be careful.

Put it this way -- why would a 70 year-old man get pleasure from paying money to have his hand held by an eleven year-old girl who is not his daughter?

Be careful, Ian.

[andrewbkk]

Educated Thais know that corruption stifles progress.

No. Educated Thais know that corruption helps to further their own personal progress.

You can call it corruption or you can call it Thai culture.

They lie; they cheat; and they steal.

And those that don't are simply the ones that don't have the opportunity to do so.

Many of them have hearts of gold, but they are innately corrupt. It's their culture.

The reason that many foreigners argue about these points in because many foreigners just don't know the truth.

Thais are good. They give. They take care. They are generous. But they are also rotten to the core.

Edited June 19, 2011 by andrewbkk

[IanForbes]

I know the Thai family I help out probably care more about the money than my friendship, but it is the children I want to help. I couldn't give a fig about the adults. Children are pretty open. They either like you or they don't. I would say that when a 13 year old boy and his 11 year old sister CHOOSE to hold me by the hand when we go for a walk then they ARE showing affection.

I would encourage you to be careful.

Put it this way -- why would a 70 year-old man get pleasure from paying money to have his hand held by an eleven year-old girl who is not his daughter?

Be careful, Ian.

For the same reason I held the hand of my old children when they were small and now hold the hand of my grand kids when we go for a walk. It's the Thai kids that take my hand, not me taking their hand. I"m probably the only father figure they've ever had. I really don't give a shit about all the self righteous bigots who only can see the worst in everything. I've looked after these children since they were 4 and 5 years old and I've taken a positive part in their lives. And, the people who look for paedophiles under every rock are perverts. If people can't see the difference then it is them that have twisted minds. I get pleasure out of seeing children having fun and growing up with opportunities they might not have had without my help. All I was pointing out is being accepted by Thais... which IS the point of discussion on this topic. Children don't fake their affection because they have no reason to do so. They either like you or they don't. Maybe when I'm dead and gone they will remember the Canadian that provided them with a better education than what they might have had. Hopefully, I'll live long enough to see them become adults and get reasonable jobs.

[kerryk]

I know the Thai family I help out probably care more about the money than my friendship, but it is the children I want to help. I couldn't give a fig about the adults. Children are pretty open. They either like you or they don't. I would say that when a 13 year old boy and his 11 year old sister CHOOSE to hold me by the hand when we go for a walk then they ARE showing affection.

I would encourage you to be careful.

Put it this way -- why would a 70 year-old man get pleasure from paying money to have his hand held by an eleven year-old girl who is not his daughter?

Be careful, Ian.

After teaching school for a long time in Thailand I know what Ian is talking about. When kids like you it is genuine affection not motivated by any hidden agendas. I still carry a key chain a little person bought me. The child was poor with little money but wanted to give me a present.

I was at Lotus a week ago when three little urchins ran up to me smiling and laughing, their parents looking on in stunned silence at the audacity of the children with the old Farang. The store clerks smiled as they watched. It is a nice thing and gave me a warm feeling in my heart.

I was a good teacher and it is nice to feel accepted by students and parents.

A good teacher feels accepted, respected and loved and those are all good feelings.

The way to a Thais heart is through his kids. It is not easy to gain the respect of a child. It takes a lot of work. I spent three years at a government school with no AC and few supplies or extras. It was hard hot and demanding work for not much money. The reward is in the smiles of the students.

[andrewbkk]

I know the Thai family I help out probably care more about the money than my friendship, but it is the children I want to help. I couldn't give a fig about the adults. Children are pretty open. They either like you or they don't. I would say that when a 13 year old boy and his 11 year old sister CHOOSE to hold me by the hand when we go for a walk then they ARE showing affection.

I would encourage you to be careful.

Put it this way -- why would a 70 year-old man get pleasure from paying money to have his hand held by an eleven year-old girl who is not his daughter?

Be careful, Ian.

For the same reason I held the hand of my old children when they were small and now hold the hand of my grand kids when we go for a walk. It's the Thai kids that take my hand, not me taking their hand. I"m probably the only father figure they've ever had. I really don't give a shit about all the self righteous bigots who only can see the worst in everything. I've looked after these children since they were 4 and 5 years old and I've taken a positive part in their lives. And, the people who look for paedophiles under every rock are perverts. If people can't see the difference then it is them that have twisted minds. I get pleasure out of seeing children having fun and growing up with opportunities they might not have had without my help. All I was pointing out is being accepted by Thais... which IS the point of discussion on this topic. Children don't fake their affection because they have no reason to do so. They either like you or they don't. Maybe when I'm dead and gone they will remember the Canadian that provided them with a better education than what they might have had. Hopefully, I'll live long enough to see them become adults and get reasonable jobs.

I hear you, Ian. I really hear you.

I'm just saying be careful.

Do you think the family of that eleven year-old girl genuinely care about you?

Let's imagine I'm a Thai guy. Let's imagine I'm part of that family. Let's imagine I want a new pick-up truck.

Easy to to get, isn't it? I just tell that eleven year-old girl to go to the police and tell the truth about that disgusting perverted farang.

Sure, it's all lies. The girl knows it's a lie but she's doing it for her family. And compared to her family, you are zero. The family know it's lies but they want the green. The police know it's lies but they too want the green.

And let's be honest -- who's gonna believe the story of a self-confessed 70 year-old sex tourist who openly admits that he enjoys holding the hand of an 11 year-old girl.

Be careful, dude.

[travelmann]

The question for me really is " do I want to feel part of it"? personally the answers "no" but then I dont want to feel part of any culture.

[jdinasia]

To be more accurate, if they represent most of the farangs posting here, they should both be wearing rose-colored glasses.

Don't forget sh*t smeared glasses for the constant moaners.

I wonder how many Thais would label #5, Chuwit as a "constant moaner" in order to minimize the truth of what he is saying or divert attention away from the real problem. He is saying exactly what I am saying, except he does not add the part about farangs being cheated (that part is obvious to anybody who does not have his head up his a-hole). The unproductive and confrontational comments here made me think of a conversation I recently had with a Chinese-Thai woman. If you think I have negative things to say about Thais, try talking to a Thai-Chinese about what they think about Thais Ignore reality if you want to--put on a darker shade of rose-colored glasses But that will not make the problems of corruption, lying and cheating go away. And it will do nothing to help farangs from getting cheated.

You do realize that you are holding up an extremely corrupt individual as your standard bearer, don't you? Ignore reality if you want to, but Chuwit is the problem not a solution to the problem.