Thai Immigration Tightens Requirements For Retirement Visa Extensions

[KimoMax]

Third (3rd) Extension of Stay for an Amercan Citizen using Income only method @ Immigration Office in Northern Thailand. Monday, 13 June, 2011.

Original "O-A Retirement" One Year Validity Visa obtained @ Los Angeles USA Thai Consulate with all proper documents and Notarised.

First (1st) Extension of stay obtained at end of One Year stay in Thailand, prior to Visa expiration

Required for Third (3rd) Extension

1. Passport

2. Photo

3. Completed TM7

4. Original Certificate of Income letter from Home Country Embassy (U.S.A.)

5. Photocopy Departure Card

7. Photocopy Passport Data Page

8. Photocopy "O-A" Visa

9. 1,900 BHT

Not Required ...

Additional proof of income.

Bank statements.

Thai Bank Book

Money imported into Thailand.

No proof of Residence, other than the normal 90 day reports.

Additional Warnings or Comments from Immigration Office and Supervisor of the Office

No Comments or Warning given to have a Thai Bank Account now or in the future.

If have a Bank Statement and Letter from the Bank,

or a Letter of Income from Home Country Embassy/Consulate, no additional supporting documents are wanted or required of persons from any Country.

Supervisor said if any changes occur in the future, the Requirements will be in the form of a Police Order and updated on the Immigration Web Site and at ALL Immigration Offices.

Edited to include date of Application and type of income verification used.

Edited June 14, 2011 by KimoMax

[moe666]

Third (3rd) Extension of Stay for an Amercan Citizen @ Immigration Office in Northern Thailand. Monday, 13 June, 2011.

Original "O-A Retirement" One Year Validity Visa obtained @ Los Angeles USA Thai Consulate with all proper documents and Notarised.

First (1st) Extension of stay obtained at end of One Year stay in Thailand, prior to Visa expiration

Required for Third (3rd) Extension

1. Passport

2. Photo

3. Completed TM7

4. Original Certificate of Income letter from Home Country Embassy (U.S.A.)

5. Photocopy Departure Card

7. Photocopy Passport Data Page

8. Photocopy "O-A" Visa

9. 1,900 BHT

Not Required ...

Additional proof of income.

Bank statements.

Thai Bank Book

Money imported into Thailand.

No proof of Residence, other than the normal 90 day reports.

Additional Warnings or Comments from Immigration Office and Supervisor of the Office

No Comments or Warning given to have a Thai Bank Account now or in the future.

If have a Bank Statement and Letter from the Bank,

or a Letter of Income from Home Country Embassy/Consulate, no additional supporting documents are wanted or required of persons from any Country.

Supervisor said if any changes occur in the future, the Requirements will be in the form of a Police Order and updated on the Immigration Web Site and at ALL Immigration Offices.

Edited to include date of application.

thanks but which office and what date.

[theoldgit]

thanks but which office and what date.

Monday, 13 June, 2011, but yes, what office in Northern Thailand?

[moe666]

thanks but which office and what date.

Monday, 13 June, 2011, but yes, what office in Northern Thailand?

My bad missed the date

[KimoMax]

thanks but which office and what date.

Monday, 13 June, 2011, but yes, what office in Northern Thailand?

Mae Sai Thai Immigration Office.

Forgot to mention that the Supervisor did say that an Officer can ask for additional Douments if deemed necessary if an applicant has not successfully met the Immigrations requirements.

Edited June 14, 2011 by KimoMax

[samran]

It has long been a dream of mine to return with my family to live in Thailand after my time as a missionary back in 1982-1983. After reading some of the posts here, I am slowly watching that dream die. It seems that the government does not want people from other nations bringing their money to Thailand. Due to some of the low class behaviour of some "farangs", all seem now to be punished. In my research of other nations to spend my retirement years in, Thailand is too punitive towards the elderly from other nations. I hope this is going to be resolved before I actually make the decision of where to move. Living in the US is getting too expensive due to so much of my income going to programs that are mismanaged by a government too big to be efficient. Money goes where it is treated best and Thailand seems to be too difficult to deal with which is sad because I love the Thai people and the culture of Thailand. I speak the language very well but perhaps I need to learn spanish as the nations in Central America are much more accepting of the retirees of other nations and therefore those nations are getting ready to "boom" financially.

Threads like these are great at bringing out the the panic merchants and frankly trolls who want nothing more to give a kick when they feel they can. (ie 'oh the sky is falling', or ' they don't want us here').

Any objective review of Thai immigration rules and related legislation (eg citizenship) will show since the 1990's Thailand has made it far easier to live here, and more friendly to foreigners, albeit, while at the same time being increasingly stringent in making sure people follow the the rules. Clear examples are:

- Recognition in citizenship laws for Thai mothers married to foreigners to pass Thai citizenship down to their children (1992)

- Allowance (in most circumstances) for Thai's to hold more than one citizenship (1992)

- Ending discrimination in granting permission for Thai women to continue to own land when married to a foreigner (late 1990's)

- Allowing children born to foreign nationals in Thailand between 1971 and 1992 to take up Thai citizenship if not already eligible otherwise

- Removal of the need to prove Tax payments before foreign nationals resident in Thailand were allowed to travel (1990's)

- Expedited work permit processing via one stop shops(2000's?)

- FTA's allowing majority foreign ownership in a variety of industries (2000s')

- Umpteen BOI provisions allowing easy foreign investment - ie tax incentives, land ownership etc (80's, 90's)

- Pretty low bars for foreigner retirees to live in Thailand, reduced if married to a Thai

- More open frameworks for migrant labour from neigbouring countries to live and work in Thailand

- Access for foreign workers to the Thai social security network (medical care especially)

- Basic reduction in corruption to negligible levels on a day to day basis when requesting government services and utilities.

Admittedly there are still improvements to be made (eg clearer paths to PR, citizenship) but they'll come.

But if you listen to the whiners (and their are plenty of them on TV) then you'd get the impression that we are nearing the date where a sign will be put up saying 'will the last person to leave please turn off the lights).

Couldn't be further from the truth.

[jfchandler]

Third (3rd) Extension of Stay for an Amercan Citizen using Income only method @ Immigration Office in Northern Thailand. Monday, 13 June, 2011.

No Comments or Warning given to have a Thai Bank Account now or in the future.

If have a Bank Statement and Letter from the Bank, or a Letter of Income from Home Country Embassy/Consulate, no additional supporting documents are wanted or required of persons from any Country.

Supervisor said if any changes occur in the future, the Requirements will be in the form of a Police Order and updated on the Immigration Web Site and at ALL Immigration Offices.

Thanks for the timely and informative report, Kimo...

Count one vote for "everything's OK" and no significant changes in the extension application process, contrary to the sketchy OP here...

Hope other TV members going for extensions will likewise report their experience here...to fully settle this issue.

BTW, I wouldn't be too optimistic about hearing of any potential future changes via the Immigration web site. There was a separate thread here on TV lately about Immigration how has been operating once-a-month mobile immigration clinics at two locations in BKK, including Bumrungrad Hospital. Good luck trying to find any mention of this anywhere on the Immigration web site.

Edited June 14, 2011 by jfchandler

[doctormann]

I've just received my income certification letter from the UK Honorary Consulate in Jompthien, as I have for the last several years. I provided them with the normal evidence of income which, in my case, derives from an occupational pension and also from the UK State Pension. No problem but I notice a subtle, or maybe not so subtle, change in the wording of the letter.

In previous years the wording was, 'Mr. X has shown evidence that he is in receipt of income worth £n on a regular monthly basis.' This year, the wording is, 'Mr. X has stated that he receives a monthly pension of £n.' This sounds a bit like the US / Australia situation.

I suspect from this that Immigration may want to see some additional proof of income. Again, no problem as I have bank statements and can, anyway, provide Immigration with the same evidence that I provided to the Consulate. I guess that I'll find out next week when I front up to get the annual retirement extension.

DM

[Jingthing]

I've just received my income certification letter from the UK Honorary Consulate in Jompthien, as I have for the last several years. I provided them with the normal evidence of income which, in my case, derives from an occupational pension and also from the UK State Pension. No problem but I notice a subtle, or maybe not so subtle, change in the wording of the letter.

In previous years the wording was, 'Mr. X has shown evidence that he is in receipt of income worth £n on a regular monthly basis.' This year, the wording is, 'Mr. X has stated that he receives a monthly pension of £n.' This sounds a bit like the US / Australia situation.

I suspect from this that Immigration may want to see some additional proof of income. Again, no problem as I have bank statements and can, anyway, provide Immigration with the same evidence that I provided to the Consulate. I guess that I'll find out next week when I front up to get the annual retirement extension.

DM

This current issue has absolutely NOTHING to do with British people or most expat nationalities. Please refer to the OP. Frankly, "nothing happened different or surprising" reports from those OTHER than the targeted nationalities, probably most relevant to AMERICANS is totally off topic to this topic. That could possibly (though very unlikely) change in the case that non-targeted nationalities start not having their embassy letters accepted, warnings about the future, etc.

I know some people want to get involved in the exciting party atmosphere of this thread, but really it is very specific and very limited to specific nationalities. Brits being not one of them. So sorry if that offends but it is the truth.

[theoldgit]

I've just received my income certification letter from the UK Honorary Consulate in Jompthien, as I have for the last several years. I provided them with the normal evidence of income which, in my case, derives from an occupational pension and also from the UK State Pension. No problem but I notice a subtle, or maybe not so subtle, change in the wording of the letter.

In previous years the wording was, 'Mr. X has shown evidence that he is in receipt of income worth £n on a regular monthly basis.' This year, the wording is, 'Mr. X has stated that he receives a monthly pension of £n.' This sounds a bit like the US / Australia situation.

I suspect from this that Immigration may want to see some additional proof of income. Again, no problem as I have bank statements and can, anyway, provide Immigration with the same evidence that I provided to the Consulate. I guess that I'll find out next week when I front up to get the annual retirement extension.

DM

This current issue has absolutely NOTHING to do with British people or most expat nationalities. Please refer to the OP. Frankly, "nothing happened different or surprising" reports from those OTHER than the targeted nationalities, probably most relevant to AMERICANS is totally off topic to this topic. That could possibly (though very unlikely) change in the case that non-targeted nationalities start not having their embassy letters accepted, warnings about the future, etc.

I know some people want to get involved in the exciting party atmosphere of this thread, but really it is very specific and very limited to specific nationalities. Brits being not one of them. So sorry if that offends but it is the truth.

Yes, BUT, what "doctormann" has helpfully pointed out is that in his latest letter from the Honorary Consul in Pattaya the wording has changed from "shown evidence " to that of "stated that he receives", if this change of emphasis is a change in UK Embassy policy with regard to selling such letters, and is picked up by the Thai Immigration authorities, then UK nationals could possibly find themselves in the same position of those nationals of our former colonies.

[phuketrichard]

HI ,

a quick , hopefully easy question to answer.

For the first time i am doing my retirement extension with us letter stating income AND money in Bank.

I have the letter, do I also need to get the bank letter as before stating amount in the bank or can i get by with the bank book/copy?

AS i understand it the money does not need to be seasoned...

[SantiSuk]

I've just received my income certification letter from the UK Honorary Consulate in Jompthien, as I have for the last several years. I provided them with the normal evidence of income which, in my case, derives from an occupational pension and also from the UK State Pension. No problem but I notice a subtle, or maybe not so subtle, change in the wording of the letter.

In previous years the wording was, 'Mr. X has shown evidence that he is in receipt of income worth £n on a regular monthly basis.' This year, the wording is, 'Mr. X has stated that he receives a monthly pension of £n.' This sounds a bit like the US / Australia situation.

I suspect from this that Immigration may want to see some additional proof of income. Again, no problem as I have bank statements and can, anyway, provide Immigration with the same evidence that I provided to the Consulate. I guess that I'll find out next week when I front up to get the annual retirement extension.

DM

This current issue has absolutely NOTHING to do with British people or most expat nationalities. Please refer to the OP. Frankly, "nothing happened different or surprising" reports from those OTHER than the targeted nationalities, probably most relevant to AMERICANS is totally off topic to this topic. That could possibly (though very unlikely) change in the case that non-targeted nationalities start not having their embassy letters accepted, warnings about the future, etc.

I know some people want to get involved in the exciting party atmosphere of this thread, but really it is very specific and very limited to specific nationalities. Brits being not one of them. So sorry if that offends but it is the truth.

Yes, BUT, what "doctormann" has helpfully pointed out is that in his latest letter from the Honorary Consul in Pattaya the wording has changed from "shown evidence " to that of "stated that he receives", if this change of emphasis is a change in UK Embassy policy with regard to selling such letters, and is picked up by the Thai Immigration authorities, then UK nationals could possibly find themselves in the same position of those nationals of our former colonies.

The British embassy should lower their charges if they are now not prepared to sign up to the additional work/responsibility of checking the evidence.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Maestro
Removed flame.

[somtampet]

It has long been a dream of mine to return with my family to live in Thailand after my time as a missionary back in 1982-1983. After reading some of the posts here, I am slowly watching that dream die. It seems that the government does not want people from other nations bringing their money to Thailand. Due to some of the low class behaviour of some "farangs", all seem now to be punished. In my research of other nations to spend my retirement years in, Thailand is too punitive towards the elderly from other nations. I hope this is going to be resolved before I actually make the decision of where to move. Living in the US is getting too expensive due to so much of my income going to programs that are mismanaged by a government too big to be efficient. Money goes where it is treated best and Thailand seems to be too difficult to deal with which is sad because I love the Thai people and the culture of Thailand. I speak the language very well but perhaps I need to learn spanish as the nations in Central America are much more accepting of the retirees of other nations and therefore those nations are getting ready to "boom" financially.

Threads like these are great at bringing out the the panic merchants and frankly trolls who want nothing more to give a kick when they feel they can. (ie 'oh the sky is falling', or ' they don't want us here').

Any objective review of Thai immigration rules and related legislation (eg citizenship) will show since the 1990's Thailand has made it far easier to live here, and more friendly to foreigners, albeit, while at the same time being increasingly stringent in making sure people follow the the rules. Clear examples are:

- Recognition in citizenship laws for Thai mothers married to foreigners to pass Thai citizenship down to their children (1992)

- Allowance (in most circumstances) for Thai's to hold more than one citizenship (1992)

- Ending discrimination in granting permission for Thai women to continue to own land when married to a foreigner (late 1990's)

- Allowing children born to foreign nationals in Thailand between 1971 and 1992 to take up Thai citizenship if not already eligible otherwise

- Removal of the need to prove Tax payments before foreign nationals resident in Thailand were allowed to travel (1990's)

- Expedited work permit processing via one stop shops(2000's?)

- FTA's allowing majority foreign ownership in a variety of industries (2000s')

- Umpteen BOI provisions allowing easy foreign investment - ie tax incentives, land ownership etc (80's, 90's)

- Pretty low bars for foreigner retirees to live in Thailand, reduced if married to a Thai

- More open frameworks for migrant labour from neigbouring countries to live and work in Thailand

- Access for foreign workers to the Thai social security network (medical care especially)

- Basic reduction in corruption to negligible levels on a day to day basis when requesting government services and utilities.

Admittedly there are still improvements to be made (eg clearer paths to PR, citizenship) but they'll come.

But if you listen to the whiners (and their are plenty of them on TV) then you'd get the impression that we are nearing the date where a sign will be put up saying 'will the last person to leave please turn off the lights).

Couldn't be further from the truth.

Great post mate,the rules are being tightened not new ones,as its been very lax.Many of the bad farangs have gone home now or in jail due to good police work.

[NALAK]

Guess thats bad news for all the Visa and Accounting offices sale Retirement Visa under the table for 20.000 to 25.000 Baht...... But I am very sure they will find a way

Bad luck for the honest people living in LoS and just having an income of less than 65k a month.....thats an rediculous amount....compared to a THAI citizen....guess just

Abhisit makes that much money a month (over the table)

20 to 25k thats a bit expensive, will not make one bit of difference 15k seems to rate people i know pay. i stick with non o and have trip out once every 90 days. 65k per month is a rediculas amount to have to show as is 800,000. most counties are crying out for retirees money but not this one.

[samran]

Guess thats bad news for all the Visa and Accounting offices sale Retirement Visa under the table for 20.000 to 25.000 Baht...... But I am very sure they will find a way

Bad luck for the honest people living in LoS and just having an income of less than 65k a month.....thats an rediculous amount....compared to a THAI citizen....guess just

Abhisit makes that much money a month (over the table)

20 to 25k thats a bit expensive, will not make one bit of difference 15k seems to rate people i know pay. i stick with non o and have trip out once every 90 days. 65k per month is a rediculas amount to have to show as is 800,000. most counties are crying out for retirees money but not this one.

Why? I'm a Thai citizen and i earn many multiples of that, in Thailand. Many of my friends would sneeze at that salary.

[thetefldon]

I've just received my income certification letter from the UK Honorary Consulate in Jompthien, as I have for the last several years. I provided them with the normal evidence of income which, in my case, derives from an occupational pension and also from the UK State Pension. No problem but I notice a subtle, or maybe not so subtle, change in the wording of the letter.

In previous years the wording was, 'Mr. X has shown evidence that he is in receipt of income worth £n on a regular monthly basis.' This year, the wording is, 'Mr. X has stated that he receives a monthly pension of £n.' This sounds a bit like the US / Australia situation.

I suspect from this that Immigration may want to see some additional proof of income. Again, no problem as I have bank statements and can, anyway, provide Immigration with the same evidence that I provided to the Consulate. I guess that I'll find out next week when I front up to get the annual retirement extension.

DM

I had the same wording on this years letter, interesting, but not queried by Hua Hin when I renewed last week(see earlier comment). Wonder if its related to the change in ambassador/staff?

BTW to my many US friends sorry to add another British point of view to your thread.

[mojaco]

I've just received my income certification letter from the UK Honorary Consulate in Jompthien, as I have for the last several years. I provided them with the normal evidence of income which, in my case, derives from an occupational pension and also from the UK State Pension. No problem but I notice a subtle, or maybe not so subtle, change in the wording of the letter.

In previous years the wording was, 'Mr. X has shown evidence that he is in receipt of income worth £n on a regular monthly basis.' This year, the wording is, 'Mr. X has stated that he receives a monthly pension of £n.' This sounds a bit like the US / Australia situation.

I suspect from this that Immigration may want to see some additional proof of income. Again, no problem as I have bank statements and can, anyway, provide Immigration with the same evidence that I provided to the Consulate. I guess that I'll find out next week when I front up to get the annual retirement extension.

DM

This current issue has absolutely NOTHING to do with British people or most expat nationalities. Please refer to the OP. Frankly, "nothing happened different or surprising" reports from those OTHER than the targeted nationalities, probably most relevant to AMERICANS is totally off topic to this topic. That could possibly (though very unlikely) change in the case that non-targeted nationalities start not having their embassy letters accepted, warnings about the future, etc.

I know some people want to get involved in the exciting party atmosphere of this thread, but really it is very specific and very limited to specific nationalities. Brits being not one of them. So sorry if that offends but it is the truth.

Yes, BUT, what "doctormann" has helpfully pointed out is that in his latest letter from the Honorary Consul in Pattaya the wording has changed from "shown evidence " to that of "stated that he receives", if this change of emphasis is a change in UK Embassy policy with regard to selling such letters, and is picked up by the Thai Immigration authorities, then UK nationals could possibly find themselves in the same position of those nationals of our former colonies.

Thank you Doctorman for your report . . . it is very helpful to me, although apparently not to Jingthing.

I am an American (USA) doing retirement extensions for many years, last 3 using the Embassy Letter, and I re-extend in late July this year. I have read every post on this thread. I also agree that such a change in the British wording is significant as it seems that for unknown reasons, the British government is no longer willing to "guarantee the income". Their letter now reads almost the same as the one from the USA.

I hope Jingthing will not be so critical of experiences other nationalities have when renewing in Bangkok. For example, would it be "outside of this thread" if a British national had to show funds "coming into Thailand" as part of his/her renewal? Of course that would be pertinent, whether American, Australian, Canadian, British, German, etc.

Oh, another comment is that the "exciting party atmosphere" of this thread is directly the result of the drumming up of excitement by Jingthing's continuous commenting on a very dubious statement by the OP.

Perhaps it would be better served if the mods closed this thread and opened another one limited to experiential results from people doing their extensions for retirement in Bangkok (whatever nationality). It is VERY hard to separate the wheat from the chaff in this thread . . . I can do so only because I have been taking the time to follow every post these past few days. A newcomer to this thread will be totally at a loss as to what is going on.

FWIW

Morris

[jfchandler]

So just to recap the upshot of 20+ pages of posts....

Contrary to the report of the OP, thus far, absolutely no evidence or reports from TV members that the process for requesting extension renewals has changed in terms of how income documentation is handled/evaluated...

More first-hand reports from extension renewers, regardless of nationality, certainly would further settle this matter.

[Jingthing]

I've just received my income certification letter from the UK Honorary Consulate in Jompthien, as I have for the last several years. I provided them with the normal evidence of income which, in my case, derives from an occupational pension and also from the UK State Pension. No problem but I notice a subtle, or maybe not so subtle, change in the wording of the letter.

In previous years the wording was, 'Mr. X has shown evidence that he is in receipt of income worth £n on a regular monthly basis.' This year, the wording is, 'Mr. X has stated that he receives a monthly pension of £n.' This sounds a bit like the US / Australia situation.

I suspect from this that Immigration may want to see some additional proof of income. Again, no problem as I have bank statements and can, anyway, provide Immigration with the same evidence that I provided to the Consulate. I guess that I'll find out next week when I front up to get the annual retirement extension.

DM

This current issue has absolutely NOTHING to do with British people or most expat nationalities. Please refer to the OP. Frankly, "nothing happened different or surprising" reports from those OTHER than the targeted nationalities, probably most relevant to AMERICANS is totally off topic to this topic. That could possibly (though very unlikely) change in the case that non-targeted nationalities start not having their embassy letters accepted, warnings about the future, etc.

I know some people want to get involved in the exciting party atmosphere of this thread, but really it is very specific and very limited to specific nationalities. Brits being not one of them. So sorry if that offends but it is the truth.

Yes, BUT, what "doctormann" has helpfully pointed out is that in his latest letter from the Honorary Consul in Pattaya the wording has changed from "shown evidence " to that of "stated that he receives", if this change of emphasis is a change in UK Embassy policy with regard to selling such letters, and is picked up by the Thai Immigration authorities, then UK nationals could possibly find themselves in the same position of those nationals of our former colonies.

Thank you Doctorman for your report . . . it is very helpful to me, although apparently not to Jingthing.

I am an American (USA) doing retirement extensions for many years, last 3 using the Embassy Letter, and I re-extend in late July this year. I have read every post on this thread. I also agree that such a change in the British wording is significant as it seems that for unknown reasons, the British government is no longer willing to "guarantee the income". Their letter now reads almost the same as the one from the USA.

I hope Jingthing will not be so critical of experiences other nationalities have when renewing in Bangkok. For example, would it be "outside of this thread" if a British national had to show funds "coming into Thailand" as part of his/her renewal? Of course that would be pertinent, whether American, Australian, Canadian, British, German, etc.

Oh, another comment is that the "exciting party atmosphere" of this thread is directly the result of the drumming up of excitement by Jingthing's continuous commenting on a very dubious statement by the OP.

Perhaps it would be better served if the mods closed this thread and opened another one limited to experiential results from people doing their extensions for retirement in Bangkok (whatever nationality). It is VERY hard to separate the wheat from the chaff in this thread . . . I can do so only because I have been taking the time to follow every post these past few days. A newcomer to this thread will be totally at a loss as to what is going on.

FWIW

Morris

My party comment was sarcasm but I guess if I have to spell it out for you, it wasn't stellar.

Yes, I acknowledge that it is interesting that the British language was changed and that IF Brits have any experience related to the issue in the OP, they may possibly be included in the set of targeted nationalities. As we have as yet had ZERO indication that Brits are CURRENTLY on the target list, I still think we don't need to hear from them with reports UNLESS they start to get targeted (in other words, a Brit who isn't a known target saying no problem at immigration is rather meaningless at this point in time).

Don't act like this is all about the OP. There have been some reports for MONTHS now of both warnings and additional proof demanded particularly at Bangkok of AMERICANS and I recall some other offices as well. However, I stand by my assertion, reports from Americans at Bangkok are by far the MOST relevant and MOST helpful to determine what is happening with this very specific issue.

Of course, conditions change, and now that this new British language has now been broadcast on all continents and into the high offices of the immigration poobahs on this very thread (thanks a million I can hear the Brits say), indeed, the Brits may indeed soon join the fun "in" crowd of targeted nationalities. BUT NOT YET.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Jingthing

[Awohalitsiktoli]

It has long been a dream of mine to return with my family to live in Thailand after my time as a missionary back in 1982-1983. After reading some of the posts here, I am slowly watching that dream die. It seems that the government does not want people from other nations bringing their money to Thailand. Due to some of the low class behaviour of some "farangs", all seem now to be punished. In my research of other nations to spend my retirement years in, Thailand is too punitive towards the elderly from other nations. I hope this is going to be resolved before I actually make the decision of where to move. Living in the US is getting too expensive due to so much of my income going to programs that are mismanaged by a government too big to be efficient. Money goes where it is treated best and Thailand seems to be too difficult to deal with which is sad because I love the Thai people and the culture of Thailand. I speak the language very well but perhaps I need to learn spanish as the nations in Central America are much more accepting of the retirees of other nations and therefore those nations are getting ready to "boom" financially.

Threads like these are great at bringing out the the panic merchants and frankly trolls who want nothing more to give a kick when they feel they can. (ie 'oh the sky is falling', or ' they don't want us here').

Any objective review of Thai immigration rules and related legislation (eg citizenship) will show since the 1990's Thailand has made it far easier to live here, and more friendly to foreigners, albeit, while at the same time being increasingly stringent in making sure people follow the the rules. Clear examples are:

- Recognition in citizenship laws for Thai mothers married to foreigners to pass Thai citizenship down to their children (1992)

- Allowance (in most circumstances) for Thai's to hold more than one citizenship (1992)

- Ending discrimination in granting permission for Thai women to continue to own land when married to a foreigner (late 1990's)

- Allowing children born to foreign nationals in Thailand between 1971 and 1992 to take up Thai citizenship if not already eligible otherwise

- Removal of the need to prove Tax payments before foreign nationals resident in Thailand were allowed to travel (1990's)

- Expedited work permit processing via one stop shops(2000's?)

- FTA's allowing majority foreign ownership in a variety of industries (2000s')

- Umpteen BOI provisions allowing easy foreign investment - ie tax incentives, land ownership etc (80's, 90's)

- Pretty low bars for foreigner retirees to live in Thailand, reduced if married to a Thai

- More open frameworks for migrant labour from neigbouring countries to live and work in Thailand

- Access for foreign workers to the Thai social security network (medical care especially)

- Basic reduction in corruption to negligible levels on a day to day basis when requesting government services and utilities.

Admittedly there are still improvements to be made (eg clearer paths to PR, citizenship) but they'll come.

But if you listen to the whiners (and their are plenty of them on TV) then you'd get the impression that we are nearing the date where a sign will be put up saying 'will the last person to leave please turn off the lights).

Couldn't be further from the truth.

I was not going to post but somebody has to counter the misleading information that is being posted. If you are not going to stick to the subject, please stop posting misleading information. Just one example: You said, "Pretty low bars for foreigner retirees to live in Thailand, reduced if married to a Thai." That is partially correct, but it is misleading readers because it omits the most important fact: the marriage extension income bar has doubled over the past ten years, making it harder to live here on a marriage extension. The statement immigration has been sending to foreigners over the past ten years is clear: We do not want you here, so get out! And that isn't far from the truth; it is the truth. Now back to the OP's question. It would be nice to focus on that now.

[SurfRider]

.

"I have the letter, do I also need to get the bank letter as before stating amount in the bank or can i get by with the bank book/copy?"

Not sure about Phuket.

I KNOW that in Pattaya, the Pattaya City Expats Club has reported and posted to their website that, based on several recent reports from Expats, the bank letter and bank-book are no longer required when using the Embassy letter, but STILL REQUIRED when using the 800K deposit renewal method or COMBO method.

.

Edited June 14, 2011 by SurfRider

[OJAS]

I've just received my income certification letter from the UK Honorary Consulate in Jompthien, as I have for the last several years. I provided them with the normal evidence of income which, in my case, derives from an occupational pension and also from the UK State Pension. No problem but I notice a subtle, or maybe not so subtle, change in the wording of the letter.

In previous years the wording was, 'Mr. X has shown evidence that he is in receipt of income worth £n on a regular monthly basis.' This year, the wording is, 'Mr. X has stated that he receives a monthly pension of £n.' This sounds a bit like the US / Australia situation.

I suspect from this that Immigration may want to see some additional proof of income. Again, no problem as I have bank statements and can, anyway, provide Immigration with the same evidence that I provided to the Consulate. I guess that I'll find out next week when I front up to get the annual retirement extension.

DM

This current issue has absolutely NOTHING to do with British people or most expat nationalities. Please refer to the OP. Frankly, "nothing happened different or surprising" reports from those OTHER than the targeted nationalities, probably most relevant to AMERICANS is totally off topic to this topic. That could possibly (though very unlikely) change in the case that non-targeted nationalities start not having their embassy letters accepted, warnings about the future, etc.

I know some people want to get involved in the exciting party atmosphere of this thread, but really it is very specific and very limited to specific nationalities. Brits being not one of them. So sorry if that offends but it is the truth.

Yes, BUT, what "doctormann" has helpfully pointed out is that in his latest letter from the Honorary Consul in Pattaya the wording has changed from "shown evidence " to that of "stated that he receives", if this change of emphasis is a change in UK Embassy policy with regard to selling such letters, and is picked up by the Thai Immigration authorities, then UK nationals could possibly find themselves in the same position of those nationals of our former colonies.

And if that wasn't enough, the POI letter I received from the British Embassy for this year's extension last week includes the following statement at the bottom: "The British Embassy accepts no responsibility for the contents of this document". The POI letter I obtained from the Pattaya Consulate for last year's extension did not include any similar disclaimer.

Conversely, other recent TV threads would seem to indicate that the American Embassy IS now insisting on the provision of adequate income evidence before accepting the validity of sworn oaths and issuing POI letters.

So I would go further than theoldgit and suggest that we Brits may, in fact, be in an inferior position to our ex-colonials.

[samran]

It has long been a dream of mine to return with my family to live in Thailand after my time as a missionary back in 1982-1983. After reading some of the posts here, I am slowly watching that dream die. It seems that the government does not want people from other nations bringing their money to Thailand. Due to some of the low class behaviour of some "farangs", all seem now to be punished. In my research of other nations to spend my retirement years in, Thailand is too punitive towards the elderly from other nations. I hope this is going to be resolved before I actually make the decision of where to move. Living in the US is getting too expensive due to so much of my income going to programs that are mismanaged by a government too big to be efficient. Money goes where it is treated best and Thailand seems to be too difficult to deal with which is sad because I love the Thai people and the culture of Thailand. I speak the language very well but perhaps I need to learn spanish as the nations in Central America are much more accepting of the retirees of other nations and therefore those nations are getting ready to "boom" financially.

Threads like these are great at bringing out the the panic merchants and frankly trolls who want nothing more to give a kick when they feel they can. (ie 'oh the sky is falling', or ' they don't want us here').

Any objective review of Thai immigration rules and related legislation (eg citizenship) will show since the 1990's Thailand has made it far easier to live here, and more friendly to foreigners, albeit, while at the same time being increasingly stringent in making sure people follow the the rules. Clear examples are:

- Recognition in citizenship laws for Thai mothers married to foreigners to pass Thai citizenship down to their children (1992)

- Allowance (in most circumstances) for Thai's to hold more than one citizenship (1992)

- Ending discrimination in granting permission for Thai women to continue to own land when married to a foreigner (late 1990's)

- Allowing children born to foreign nationals in Thailand between 1971 and 1992 to take up Thai citizenship if not already eligible otherwise

- Removal of the need to prove Tax payments before foreign nationals resident in Thailand were allowed to travel (1990's)

- Expedited work permit processing via one stop shops(2000's?)

- FTA's allowing majority foreign ownership in a variety of industries (2000s')

- Umpteen BOI provisions allowing easy foreign investment - ie tax incentives, land ownership etc (80's, 90's)

- Pretty low bars for foreigner retirees to live in Thailand, reduced if married to a Thai

- More open frameworks for migrant labour from neigbouring countries to live and work in Thailand

- Access for foreign workers to the Thai social security network (medical care especially)

- Basic reduction in corruption to negligible levels on a day to day basis when requesting government services and utilities.

Admittedly there are still improvements to be made (eg clearer paths to PR, citizenship) but they'll come.

But if you listen to the whiners (and their are plenty of them on TV) then you'd get the impression that we are nearing the date where a sign will be put up saying 'will the last person to leave please turn off the lights).

Couldn't be further from the truth.

I was not going to post but somebody has to counter the misleading information that is being posted. If you are not going to stick to the subject, please stop posting misleading information. Just one example: You said, "Pretty low bars for foreigner retirees to live in Thailand, reduced if married to a Thai." That is partially correct, but it is misleading readers because it omits the most important fact: the marriage extension income bar has doubled over the past ten years, making it harder to live here on a marriage extension. The statement immigration has been sending to foreigners over the past ten years is clear: We do not want you here, so get out! And that isn't far from the truth; it is the truth. Now back to the OP's question. It would be nice to focus on that now.

By misleading information - I think you actually mean 'inconvenient information' that contradicts your 'we do not want you here, get out' bleating.

But if we want to talk about the geriatrics visa, er, um, sorry, retirement visa, then back in 2006 I do recall that anyone who was under the old system was automatically "grandfathered" (excuse the pun) under the "old" rules (excuse the pun again). Hardly the stuff of pogroms here now is it?

And how dare the Thai government raise the nominal bar...how dare they pay attention to inflation.

In any case, if they really didn't want you here, all they'd have to do is say 'no more retirement visa's will be issued'. End of story. Instead, we get these ludicrous leaps of logic that you find offence in any tweak of an immigration rule.

You might as well complain that your bum gun not working this morning was another example of 'anti-farang sentiment'.....

But lets not get the facts in the way of a good 'the sky is falling thread' now shall we, though I invite you to counter any of my many points above.

Back to regular (hysterical) programming.....

Edited June 14, 2011 by samran

[SurfRider]

.

"the American Embassy IS now insisting on the provision of adequate income evidence before accepting the validity of sworn oaths and issuing POI letters."

Before a rumor gets started, can you substantiate this with a specific reference? According to the Pattaya City Expats Club, as well as other credible sources, what you're claiming is NOT correct.

.

[Penkoprod]

Yes, BUT, what "doctormann" has helpfully pointed out is that in his latest letter from the Honorary Consul in Pattaya the wording has changed from "shown evidence " to that of "stated that he receives", if this change of emphasis is a change in UK Embassy policy with regard to selling such letters, and is picked up by the Thai Immigration authorities, then UK nationals could possibly find themselves in the same position of those nationals of our former colonies.

Yes, but, the difference is that a UK national would have had to furnish the embassy/consulate with proof of funding as normal, anyway

Its just a simple matter of keeping the proof together with all the other bumph required, and presenting it to Immigration when the time comes... even if they say its not needed...........no?

Penkoprod

[phuketrichard]

.

"I have the letter, do I also need to get the bank letter as before stating amount in the bank or can i get by with the bank book/copy?"

Not sure about Phuket.

I KNOW that in Pattaya, the Pattaya City Expats Club has reported and posted to their website that, based on several recent reports from Expats, the bank letter and bank-book are no longer required when using the Embassy letter, but STILL REQUIRED when using the 800K deposit renewal method or COMBO method.

.

That makes sense if your showing u have an income of +800,000/year.

guess i will get the letter.

Boy scout moto

Be Prepared :-)

[phuketrichard]

.

"the American Embassy IS now insisting on the provision of adequate income evidence before accepting the validity of sworn oaths and issuing POI letters."

Before a rumor gets started, can you substantiate this with a specific reference? According to the Pattaya City Expats Club, as well as other credible sources, what you're claiming is NOT correct.

.

Just got my letter this morning for my income here in Phuket from the US consolur. All they asked for was my signature and a yes it was true what I said

[CRUNCHER]

I KNOW that in Pattaya, the Pattaya City Expats Club has reported and posted to their website that, based on several recent reports from Expats, the bank letter and bank-book are no longer required when using the Embassy letter, but STILL REQUIRED when using the 800K deposit renewal method or COMBO method.

If true, this would seem to make it less likely that proof that income was being brought into Thailand is required.

This further discredits the OP, which has done nothing but cause a lot of unecessary concern.

[Thaddeus]

I KNOW that in Pattaya, the Pattaya City Expats Club has reported and posted to their website that, based on several recent reports from Expats, the bank letter and bank-book are no longer required when using the Embassy letter, but STILL REQUIRED when using the 800K deposit renewal method or COMBO method.

If true, this would seem to make it less likely that proof that income was being brought into Thailand is required.

This further discredits the OP, which has done nothing but cause a lot of unecessary concern.

If you are using 65k per month income rather than money in the bank, has proof of bank money ever been requested?

I don't think the OP states that it is.

[Mario2008]

No bank letter is required. But some immirgaiton offices do want to see a bank book (or ATM receipts) showing you have some money to spend. Normally just 20,000 in a bank book (no bank letter required) is enough in those cases.