Thai Immigration Crackdown On Ed Visas

[Richard Hall]

‘The big fish eat the little fish.”

Hey, that is pretty unfair to come up with such a trick phrase. That poor guy was surely not just into fish when staying in Thailand for seven years already. Most likely not a fisherman.

Officers be decent.

"How much for short time, how much for long?". "How much for a class of beer?".

This would obviously be in compliance with the purpose of stay and hence more appropriate to find out about one's language skills.

[kirk0233]

So the bureaucrat just examined his visas and decided that going to school for 6 years was too much education and stamped cancelled? What lunacy and abuse of power! I am about to enter a PhD program in Thailand that allows 7 years to complete. I doubt it will take that long, but will an immigration officer without consulting the school or examining the situation arbitrarily decide I have been in school too long? Have Thais never heard of life long learning?

Edited July 7, 2011 by kirk0233

[Cyrus2Ray]

How about schools which offer "Online Thai" courses along with a renewable one-year Ed Visa ??

I sure hope these schools and their online courses will not be affected in a negative way, given all is legit !

I am not in Thailand yet, but wonder if I choose such a path, that all will be legit and trouble-free,

By the way, how would they check attendance for 'Online Courses" ? perhaps check to see how often you log in or ?? How often is one required to log in per week perhaps ? How are the exams conducted ? How does it all work ? etc...

If allowed on TV, can anyone offer some guidance as to the good versus the bad in terms of schools offering online Thai courses and how this new legal move may affect some of them ?

[Suradit]

All you people who are cheering this are absolute scum, you know that? At least people who use ED visa's are trying to do something to stay here legitimately.

If you were/are staying here legitmately, what's the problem?

Everyone is cheering the fact that people who are not students and have no intention of learning Thai or anything else are scamming the system.

If you are one of them, then the something you are trying to do is not legitimate. You can't think that pretending to be a student to circumvent the law is legitimate ... and then call other people scum, morons and whatever else you said.

Once again, everyone on the planet is not entitled to stay in Thailand.

[evanson]

All you people who are cheering this are absolute scum, you know that? At least people who use ED visa's are trying to do something to stay here legitimately.

Some of you lot forget that we are essentially all here for similar reasons, it's just that not all of us are lucky enough to have a job or be over a certain age so that we can get the visa we need...

You might laugh now while you have your comfortable retirement visa or whatever it is, but one day they'll clamp down on those as well - then perhaps you'll wish you weren't quite so gleeful about the struggles of the rest of us to stay here. Morons. Shameful

Thank you nice complement. Thank god I am not here for the same reason as you.

And what reason would that be? Nice avatar ...

[lazygourmet]

So if the guy in Barry's story actually understood what the officer was saying in Thai about the big fish eating the little fish, would he have gotten another year's ED visa? I certainly hope so....

555 !!!

[atyclb]

Pla yay geen pla lek

So what the answer?

Plah yai mee bpuat tong.

should be;

ฟลาตัวใหญ่กินฟลาตัวเล็ก

pla doowa yay gin pla doowa lek

[crazyawm]

"How much for short time, how much for long?". "How much for a class of beer?".

555 =)

online school have same lazzy student, but online courses costs only 12.000-13.000 in year, and lost ED visa from online school not so sad

[crazyawm]

pla doowa yay gin pla doowa lek

why all farang say "go gai" if right "ko kai"?

about thai "sara uu" im understand, because same letter have only in russian alfabeta, but why "go gai" if right "ko kai" - not understand...

Edited July 7, 2011 by crazyawm

[Steely Dan]

Wow, nearly one thousand people looking at this topic! I sense a little 'cramming' may be in order. Pla yaay gin pla lek cow jai?

[DickFarang]

All you people who are cheering this are absolute scum, you know that? At least people who use ED visa's are trying to do something to stay here legitimately.

Some of you lot forget that we are essentially all here for similar reasons, it's just that not all of us are lucky enough to have a job or be over a certain age so that we can get the visa we need...

You might laugh now while you have your comfortable retirement visa or whatever it is, but one day they'll clamp down on those as well - then perhaps you'll wish you weren't quite so gleeful about the struggles of the rest of us to stay here. Morons. Shameful

Fully agree with you here - the fact that people are doing this, is only a symptom of a problem.

There are people, wealthy enough to fund a lifestyle WITHOUT working, or at least work over the phone/internet or run their own business and can do so from Thailand (servicing customers in their home countries), whom are under 45, or whatever the Non B retirement visa requirement for age is. Thailand does not understand, that in many western countries having a degree is not automatic - it is actually a huge challenge both financially and academically to graduate. In my country (New Zealand), only 25% of the population have a bachelors degree, 10% have a masters degree, and 4% have a PHd. We cannot buy degrees, or fake test scores unlike certain universities in Thailand have been caught doing, and some of my friends have taken advantage of to come here to NZ on.

I have worked since I was 15 years old, and am in the top 10% of earners in my country - I have no degree. Why? My parents abandoned me at a young age, and it would cost me more to stop working and graduate, than to continue what I am doing until I am 45 and quality for the retirement visa. If it is not 45, I know it is in the Phils.

Just like Thai doctors (another issue), stop attacking the symptoms, understand the cause and fix it. The cause is, you do not offer a long term opportunity for financially well off earners under 45 to remain in Thailand 100% legally more than the tourist visa will allow them to. Fix it?

To qualify for a retirement visa in Thailand you have to be at least 50 years old.

Edited July 7, 2011 by DickFarang

[jdinasia]

So the bureaucrat just examined his visas and decided that going to school for 6 years was too much education and stamped cancelled? What lunacy and abuse of power! I am about to enter a PhD program in Thailand that allows 7 years to complete. I doubt it will take that long, but will an immigration officer without consulting the school or examining the situation arbitrarily decide I have been in school to long? Have Thais never heard of life long learning?

No --- the officer decided that someone studying Thai for 5+ years should have been capable of responding to a simple statement in some recognizable way. I have taken a total of 6 months of Thai classes since I moved here and certainly would have been able to respond in Thai and I am not on a student visa for learning Thai.

I suspect that this may lead to an end of people using an Ed visa to skirt around the immigration rules and that is fine. Many countries are doing exactly the same thing to deal with "students" using a school to immigrate to a country they would in no other way be eligible to live in. New Zealand and the UK have both changed rules about student visas this year.

I would expect that online learning in Thailand may be on its way out, but if a student can actually show progress then .......

What this will do is put schools that do not require student attendance and yet still offer the extension paperwork at risk. It will also mean that students in those same schools who ARE studying will be at risk as well. If a school is passing along some students that don't attend/progress they may well lose their license thus ending the permission to stay for ALL the students in that school.

[Richard Hall]

I doubt it will take that long, but will an immigration officer without consulting the school or examining the situation arbitrarily decide I have been in school too long? Have Thais never heard of life long learning?

Nuttin' to worry if you ain't a fish dodger.

[exbelg]

well that is an excellent thing if it can help the shade schools and even more shady 'long stay tourists' to follow the right way, in stead of the corrupt one

[beano2274]

All you people who are cheering this are absolute scum, you know that? At least people who use ED visa's are trying to do something to stay here legitimately.

Some of you lot forget that we are essentially all here for similar reasons, it's just that not all of us are lucky enough to have a job or be over a certain age so that we can get the visa we need...

You might laugh now while you have your comfortable retirement visa or whatever it is, but one day they'll clamp down on those as well - then perhaps you'll wish you weren't quite so gleeful about the struggles of the rest of us to stay here. Morons. Shameful

Fully agree with you here - the fact that people are doing this, is only a symptom of a problem.

There are people, wealthy enough to fund a lifestyle WITHOUT working, or at least work over the phone/internet or run their own business and can do so from Thailand (servicing customers in their home countries), whom are under 45, or whatever the Non B retirement visa requirement for age is. Thailand does not understand, that in many western countries having a degree is not automatic - it is actually a huge challenge both financially and academically to graduate. In my country (New Zealand), only 25% of the population have a bachelors degree, 10% have a masters degree, and 4% have a PHd. We cannot buy degrees, or fake test scores unlike certain universities in Thailand have been caught doing, and some of my friends have taken advantage of to come here to NZ on.

I have worked since I was 15 years old, and am in the top 10% of earners in my country - I have no degree. Why? My parents abandoned me at a young age, and it would cost me more to stop working and graduate, than to continue what I am doing until I am 45 and quality for the retirement visa. If it is not 45, I know it is in the Phils.

Just like Thai doctors (another issue), stop attacking the symptoms, understand the cause and fix it. The cause is, you do not offer a long term opportunity for financially well off earners under 45 to remain in Thailand 100% legally more than the tourist visa will allow them to. Fix it?

To qualify for a retirement visa in Thailand you have to be at least 50 years old.

In reality yes, but an Immigration officer in a small office can give you a retirement visa straight away, I have been told to apply for one next year as it is easier, I am only 45.

[jdinasia]

All you people who are cheering this are absolute scum, you know that? At least people who use ED visa's are trying to do something to stay here legitimately.

Some of you lot forget that we are essentially all here for similar reasons, it's just that not all of us are lucky enough to have a job or be over a certain age so that we can get the visa we need...

You might laugh now while you have your comfortable retirement visa or whatever it is, but one day they'll clamp down on those as well - then perhaps you'll wish you weren't quite so gleeful about the struggles of the rest of us to stay here. Morons. Shameful

Fully agree with you here - the fact that people are doing this, is only a symptom of a problem.

There are people, wealthy enough to fund a lifestyle WITHOUT working, or at least work over the phone/internet or run their own business and can do so from Thailand (servicing customers in their home countries), whom are under 45, or whatever the Non B retirement visa requirement for age is. Thailand does not understand, that in many western countries having a degree is not automatic - it is actually a huge challenge both financially and academically to graduate. In my country (New Zealand), only 25% of the population have a bachelors degree, 10% have a masters degree, and 4% have a PHd. We cannot buy degrees, or fake test scores unlike certain universities in Thailand have been caught doing, and some of my friends have taken advantage of to come here to NZ on.

I have worked since I was 15 years old, and am in the top 10% of earners in my country - I have no degree. Why? My parents abandoned me at a young age, and it would cost me more to stop working and graduate, than to continue what I am doing until I am 45 and quality for the retirement visa. If it is not 45, I know it is in the Phils.

Just like Thai doctors (another issue), stop attacking the symptoms, understand the cause and fix it. The cause is, you do not offer a long term opportunity for financially well off earners under 45 to remain in Thailand 100% legally more than the tourist visa will allow them to. Fix it?

To qualify for a retirement visa in Thailand you have to be at least 50 years old.

Under 50 --- working in Thailand .. "financially well off" ---- form a company. Pay taxes. Get legal.

[Richard Hall]

Pla yay geen pla lek

So what the answer?

Plah yai mee bpuat tong.

should be;

ฟลาตัวใหญ่กินฟลาตัวเล็ก

pla doowa yay gin pla doowa lek

Unfortunately, you misspelled the fish. ปลา and not ฟลา

Extension cancelled.

[jonclark]

The problem is an outdated visa system. People use ED visas as they choose to live here and its the only one they can get to fit. Surely some form of visa which bridges the gap between, retirement, ,marriage and an O visa should be investigated. People who get ED visas, are I'd imagine, normal folk (as opposed to being elusively deviants, pedos and long term sex tourists), who just want to settle down, the visa loophole is the only option, close it by all means, but give people another option and police immigration into Thailand properly.

It is sad to see foreigners turn on foreigners. You rarely see Thais turn on Thais in similar situation. Perhaps we have something to learn from the Thais.

[OlafStapleton]

Under 50 --- working in Thailand .. "financially well off" ---- form a company. Pay taxes. Get legal.

In west you can retire much early and get pension

Police, fireman, army can all retire with pension at age 40

I retire age 45, why I need to form company when I already retire?

Not everyone want work forever as unqualified English teacher in third world country.

Edited July 7, 2011 by OlafStapleton

[atyclb]

All you people who are cheering this are absolute scum, you know that? At least people who use ED visa's are trying to do something to stay here legitimately.

Some of you lot forget that we are essentially all here for similar reasons, it's just that not all of us are lucky enough to have a job or be over a certain age so that we can get the visa we need...

You might laugh now while you have your comfortable retirement visa or whatever it is, but one day they'll clamp down on those as well - then perhaps you'll wish you weren't quite so gleeful about the struggles of the rest of us to stay here. Morons. Shameful

Jealousy wont get u anywhere.There was a loophole for scum to come without any effort,so dont start the,i am being victomised shit

Saying scum should not come to pattaya is like suggesting a sewage system should not allow sewage.

I don't judge anybody, just observe. Pattaya has something for everyone

Edited July 7, 2011 by atyclb

[Suradit]

While I fully support closing a loophole that allows abuse.. It also has to be said that this cannot be on some arbitrary whim of a desk officer with no grading, assessment, appeal, or standardization. As of course the next thing is all ED visa people will need to pay a small fee, to administer the test (and ensure a pass).

Put in place controls, sure, but clear and transparent controls.

Granting of extensions of stays or allowing someone to enter Thailand is at the discretion of the officer dealing with the applicant. If someone has been studying Thai for 7 years and still can't comprehend a simple statement like the officer used, that's abundantly clear and transparent.

Immigrations is not obliged to start testing students to satisfy some silly notion that something doesn't exist unless it's been subjected to an objective test or forensic investigation(which everyone would then claim was inappropriate, expensive and passable through bribery).

I applaud the officer for employing common sense and performing the job for which he is being paid.

Saying scum should not come to pattaya is like suggesting a sewage system should not allow sewage.

I don't judge anybody, just observe. Pattaya has something for everyone

Obviously not for the self-righteous & morally constipated.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Suradit

[david555]

while i see the mentality behind it all, i also strongly disagree.

In my personal experience, i have attended a well known school for a full year and found not even 1 teacher was actually a qualified teacher. None of the people in the class were able to converse in Thai and thats after 1 year or learning.

Some guys were in their second year and were attending every class.

So yes there are a number of people who use ED visa just to stay, but there is also a huge number of people who actually want to learn but unable to do so because schools employ unskilled labor.

One of my friends had a similar situation in immigration, but officer demanded he sing Thai national anthem.

Also in my experience, officer spoke Isaan to me rather than Thai, officer spoke very fast and shortened many words. Those so called tests are done in the open with noise coming from all directions making very hard to concentrate.

So i would personally like to see if they do crack down, they also crack down on schools not providing proper education and conduct tests in appropriate environment.

PS. If anyone actually looks at the books at some schools, you may find that the words you learn are rather useless and very possible not to know words like big fish eat small fish.

Sure, it is possible to attend some schools and after one year not even know the Thai alphabet, how amazing could this be?

Fully agreed with that , even with your school it happened .....i just gott a blind eye for it .

whee have gotten already a private messenger chatt on that topic

PS : and some school(s) are looking for problems theirselfs , as the visa possibillity and publicity for economic reasons is to obious and expressivly advertised even more then the study

Edited July 7, 2011 by david555

[nikkoid66]

"The big fish eat the little fish?"

Pla Yae gin Pla leg.

I have done 1 year of Thai at Wallen, just done that from memory.

To the ones who say that after 6 years in Thailand you do not know the word fish, it is crazy. I didn't learn this word at School, you go to a restaurant, you need to know, gai (chicken) moo (porc), and pla (fish). Seriously, if someone is living in France for 6 years and do not know simple words like these, he deserved to be kicked out immediately.

Edited July 7, 2011 by nikkoid66

[atyclb]

Pla yay geen pla lek

So what the answer?

Plah yai mee bpuat tong.

should be;

ฟลาตัวใหญ่กินฟลาตัวเล็ก

pla doowa yay gin pla doowa lek

Unfortunately, you misspelled the fish. ปลา and not ฟลา

Extension cancelled.

you are 100% correct to catch that. very good. you pass the test. the way I wrote it would sound like FLA not PLA

Please do not cancel my Yanhee Hospital "extension"

PS; Yanhee is one of the famous hospitals for sex changes and other enhancing procedures

Edited July 7, 2011 by atyclb

[Ijustwannateach]

If some find learning Thai so hard what about learning Russian?

We have an Russian course that qualifies for ED visa for 3 years, yes, you do have to attend your classes at least twice a week for 2 lessons.

Some may question my fluency in Thai ( I can certainly improve ) but I am a fluent Russian speaker so I can take good care of your Russian learning needs.

Walen School - teaching Russian!

Actually, it's kind of cool to know that can be done... I do know of a lot of expat people who are much better at European languages than Asian ones, might help them a bit.

[Richard4849]

The problem is an outdated visa system. People use ED visas as they choose to live here and its the only one they can get to fit. Surely some form of visa which bridges the gap between, retirement, ,marriage and an O visa should be investigated. People who get ED visas, are I'd imagine, normal folk (as opposed to being elusively deviants, pedos and long term sex tourists), who just want to settle down, the visa loophole is the only option, close it by all means, but give people another option and police immigration into Thailand properly.

It is sad to see foreigners turn on foreigners. You rarely see Thais turn on Thais in similar situation. Perhaps we have something to learn from the Thais.

It's not "outdated" just because it doesn't allow anyone to come to Thailand and stay for as long as they want.

As for farangs turning on farangs, I have nothing in common with people who come here to cheat the system and loaf around getting tattoos and drinking Chang with their shirts off in public -- and think Thailand would be better off without them.

[Rama]

Wonder if the 5 foreign nationals working undercover for immi have work permits....that's about 250,000 baht a month in salaries..........

[Richard Hall]

The problem is an outdated visa system. People use ED visas as they choose to live here and its the only one they can get to fit. Surely some form of visa which bridges the gap between, retirement, ,marriage and an O visa should be investigated. People who get ED visas, are I'd imagine, normal folk (as opposed to being elusively deviants, pedos and long term sex tourists), who just want to settle down, the visa loophole is the only option, close it by all means, but give people another option and police immigration into Thailand properly.

It is sad to see foreigners turn on foreigners. You rarely see Thais turn on Thais in similar situation. Perhaps we have something to learn from the Thais.

Why use a loophole? Why not learn the language when planning to settle down in Thailand? If someone is not able to express a very simple phrase in Thai language after seven years in the country he is obviously in the wrong place. If you intend to stay long time in Thailand show respect and learn the local language. No <deleted>' excuses.

[frankylove]

im 22 i came to thailand for the one reason to learn thai have a year out and experience something new.. not because have a gf / wife i have been going to a thai language school for about a year now they offer a free visa but there is a register in the class that the teacher fills in.. so if you miss school to many times you will not get a visa.. simple.. i think a few of the guys i have seen have tried to show up every other day etc but dont know how they got on because didnt see them again..

if you get a ed visa you must go to class and learn its simple.. probably have loads of spare time in the day so why people dont go?? if there are paying for it?? plus it sucks to be in thailand and not speak thai now i understand what some people say about us while smiling at us.. you would be surprised at what some say..

[Richard4849]

If some find learning Thai so hard what about learning Russian?

We have an Russian course that qualifies for ED visa for 3 years, yes, you do have to attend your classes at least twice a week for 2 lessons.

Some may question my fluency in Thai ( I can certainly improve ) but I am a fluent Russian speaker so I can take good care of your Russian learning needs.

Walen School - teaching Russian!

How will immigration test these people, do they have Russian speaking officers ?

There is no insinuation that immigration officers are going to be checking on whether foreigners are learning anything.

My bet is that they will compel schools to keep strict attendance records, which they will confirm by doing spot checks.

It's one thing to be a visa mill -- it's another to forge attendance records on behalf of students.