Retirement - 65,000 A Month!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Jef,

they increased the amounts for marriage/retirement 3 years ago from 200k/400k to double that, to get rid of the poverty packers I guess

The financial requirement for marriage was raised last year for "new entrants" . But the "poverty packers" remain. Don't think anybody in the country at time it was increased has been thrown out.

I think retirement income requirement was last increased as way back as 1998. Some retirees still qualify for extensions at 200k in bank. Sadly not me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you'll find that you are not Robinson Crusoe. They increased the financial requirements for all.

[Ijustwannateach]

I meant "high" relative to Thai standards, of course. Actually, for retirees-from-abroad, this does make some sense, as you're not going to have them contributing to the labour force and they might become a medical burden- but if they want long-term immigrant labour (for teaching, for example) they're going to have to make a loophole. Even the "properest" teachers hired from abroad at the best schools only start at roughly 120K-150K as a working wage (not as a pension).

"Steven"

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

I think you'll find that you are not Robinson Crusoe. They increased the financial requirements for all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indeed, stictly yes. But my understanding from this forum and elsewhere is that in practice no-one already on marriage extension would be kicked out for not being able to meet the increase. Am I wrong?

If I am wrong, I think a lot of retirees will be very worried for when their turn comes.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Start worrying

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Straight answer,pse, Doc.

Do you know of, or have you heard of anyone already on an extension at the time the increase came into effect who has been denied further extension because they cannot meet the increased financial requirement?

Straight answer not obligatory.

During all the broo ha ha in spring 2004 about proposed increased financial requirements for retirees you placated us all with your opinion exisiting rights would be "grandfathered". But that was then.....

[lopburi3]

Straight answer is that you are wrong. All must meet the 400k requirement. There is no grandfather clause for it. Although immigration may use creative accounting to help some the requirement is 400k. Those unable to meet the new requirements can still use the multi entry O visa from Penang. And yes people have reported being unable to extend again without meeting the new requirements.

The last retirement increase was grandfather ed and I expect any others are likely to be.

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Thanks Lopburi.

[ray23]

Yeah, I realise that, just panicking a bit as it is only 30 years away.

I really should start putting some away.

Does the money top-up have to come from abroad, even if you don't have a pension from abroad and have lived in Thailand most your life - this seems very unfair .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok now 800k or 65 K a month from a outside source for a single person.

Or 400K or 40k a month, remember it is a retirement visa you are not supposed to be working, on a farm or anywhere.

Now if you live in Issan this may be overkill in Bangkok it might not be.

Seasoned people who know what they are doing can do well on these numbers. Those who don't know what they are doing will probably spend even more.

HMMM 30 years to go I would be planning for a heck of a lot more then what these numbers say, 30 years from now.

If you really want to retire you are going to have to invest the money to do it, in some form just like everyone else, or plan on continuing to work.

I can tell you one thing for sure you will be much better off thirty years from now if start acting on it today. It really doesn't matter what country you are in you will need money.

I did the 65K a month until I got married, I could not have existed in Los Angeles on that kind of money, or at least in any kind of existence that I would want. I would have had to do exactly waht I did do contimue to work. Maybe you will have to address that at soem point. I hope not good luck, but thirty years will pass much faster then you can imagine.

[Firefan]

Good points Ray! Start saving+investing the money - 30 years of compounding will do wonders for your net worth (and future visa applications ).

Cheers!

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

It really doesn't matter what country you are in you will need money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, that's shattered our illusions!! 0

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Straight answer,pse, Doc.

Do you know of, or have you heard of anyone already on an extension at the time the increase came into effect who has been denied further extension because they cannot meet the increased financial requirement?

Straight answer not obligatory.

During all the broo ha ha in spring 2004 about proposed increased financial requirements for retirees you placated us all with your opinion exisiting rights would be "grandfathered". But that was then.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and that was what Immigration were initially saying ( as you'd well know )

[Neeranam]

When I didn't have the reqired 400,000 for one visa extension they didn't kick me out - they kept telling me to come back(1 month at a time) and said if I didn't get it sorted then I would have to get a new visa. I have a WP so that didn't bother me. I did, however meet their requirements and found a way to have 400,000 in the bank for the next time too.

There are, or always have been up til now, ways to get round everything that the Thai govt. throw at you to make it hard to stay here.

[jas007]

I've read a few places about an anticipated increase in the retirement bank account amount to 1.5 million. Is that a fact, or just a rumour? And if it's true, will they also increase the required monthly income amount? I'm in the process of finishing up my last few months of work prior to retiement, and I'm trying to get my finances sorted out. If need be, I can meet the new bank deposit requirements, if any, but it will take some juggling of the portfolio, 401(k), etc. All things considered, I'd rather not have a bunch of money sitting around in a Thai bank earning zero interest when it could be invested elsewhere more profitably. Also, if ned be, I can arrange for a monthly cash flow of 120,000 baht. But again, I'm sort of frugal and won't really need to spend that much every month. I'd rather have unneeded assets invested for the long term. The money is there, but it won't necessarily be earning an income.

I'm from the USA, and so from what I read all I have to do is go to my embassy and sign an affadavit to the effect that I have a certain monthly pension income and that a letter will then be issued so stating.

Maybe that will still work? Or maybe I'm just thinking too much?

J

[ray23]

The rumor is just that a rumor. You can do it on 65K a month and not deposit 800K or at least I did. For two years running.You will get a lot argument about this on the forum, the bottom line is I did it.

That being said they will be very happy if you post 800K in the bank and give them 65K a month in the account.

The embassy is definetly a requirement, The way to go about it, is to get an O non immigrant, for a year, as soon as you get here establish a Thia Bank Account. Before you choose a bank talk to the manager make sure he will write a letter for you stating that you make the deposits each month from an account outside of Thailand. If they won't commit to that, go to another bank. You will have to have that letter each year, to apply and renew the annual visa.

You will have to make visa runs for the first nine months and about thirty days before the Non O visa expires apply for your annual.

You will have to have other standard documents to obtain your annual visa, but they are simple to obtain here pretty standard stuff.

Or skip the process obtain a 90 day O non immigrant, post 800 K in a Thia bank and then apply for your annual, thirty days before that visa expires. The non O will allow you to get a drivers license and pruchase a vehicle in your name.

I had no choice didn't have the 800K and I had to argue to get it, but I established a track record in deposting the 65k first. To tell you the truth the visa runs can be fun. So up to you!

It is a bit nerve racking but the truth is as long as you do as they ask it is normally not that difficult. Dont' cross your T's and dot your I's and you will have problems.

When they tell yo need a copy of the house papers for the house you are living in thats exactly what it means, no room for argument. Always ask your landlord for a copy of his house papers when you rent, you will need them. It's been a while but as I recall, I think they want the landlord to sign a form saying you are infact living in that house as well. Like I said it's been a while I may have had to do that when I appled for my drivers license not sure.

When they say recent photos thats what it means, not an extra copy of the ones you used to obtain the visa in the first place.

Rule of thumb in dealing with any governement entity make it easy for them and they will probably make it easy for you. Make it hard for them and no probably about it, they will make it hard for you

[jdinasia]

Well I'm sure I could save 800 baht a month. That makes 40000 baht in 40 years, which will satisfy the requirements, unless of course they change them.

How many increases will they have in the next 40 years?

If I retired for 20 years that would mean they want me to have/spend 8 million baht!

Maybe that is a more realistic amount to save, only 8,000 a month, which is 1/3 of my salary.

haven't finished reading through the thread yet ... but the mandatory income/savings/earnings is 0 baht if you are Thai .... sometime in the next 30 years you should qualify

Edited April 21, 2006 by jdinasia

[lopburi3]

You can use 65k pension but you still must have a bank account and a letter from that bank. The amount in the account is up to you.

The bank letter only has to indicate your account balance.

You do not have to make visa runs before extending - you can extend on any 90 day entry during the last 30 days.

What you need are letter from Embassy if not using deposit, bank passbook/letter, medical letter, your passport, 4x6cm photo(s) less than six months old and signed TM.7 with 1,900 baht for application.

The whole process can be done in the US before you leave and you receive a one year permitted to stay stamp on arrival. That method will also require a police report but no Embassy letter. And that you have the 800k equivalent in a US bank.

[Maestro]

I've read a few places about an anticipated increase in the retirement bank account amount to 1.5 million. Is that a fact, or just a rumour? And if it's true, will they also increase the required monthly income amount?

Of course it’s a rumour. Wait for the next economic crash in Thailand and when the US dollar is worth 80 Baht, perhaps then the financial requirements for retirees increase.

At present, it is still

1. either a bank balance of minimum 800K every time you apply for an annual extension

2. or 65 K monthly income

3. or a combination of both

If you chose option 1, remember that you do not need to bring in 800K every year. If you spend less during the year, it suffices to bring in enough to bring the balance again over 800K for your next application for extension.

If you chose option 2, unlike what ray23 says he’s doing, you do not need to bring in 65K every month. For your application, it is enough to have your embassy’s certification of that income. Then you bring in only the amount you need for your expenses, any time you choose, it does not have to be monthly. For the application for extension, it is advisable to be able to show a bank book with some money in it, for example 100K–200K, so that the immigration officer will know you are not living from hand to mouth.

Edited April 21, 2006 by maestro

[jas007]

Thanks evereyone

It's too bad that international financial plannning has to be so complicated. And it doesn't help matters much when you're trying to plan for the next ten years or so but don't know how or when the rules will change.

J

[rishi]

I just read on another thread that 65,000 a month is required for retirement visa.

Bloody h3ll, why?

Don't ask why ... Comply.

[Guest endure]

So, who is right, Maestro or Lopburi3?

Maestro says bank OR income:

"1. either a bank balance of minimum 800K every time you apply for an annual extension

2. or 65 K monthly income

3. or a combination of both"

Lopburi3 says bank AND income:

"You can use 65k pension but you still must have a bank account and a letter from that bank. The amount in the account is up to you."

If you're going the 65k income route all they have is a letter from your embassy so maybe they like to see a few bob actually in a bank account?

[Maestro]

So, who is right, Maestro or Lopburi3?

Both are right.

With an extension based on certified monthly income, whatever amounts you bring into Thailand to cover living expenses should be transferred into a bank account in your name. The bank book is the easiest way for Immigration to verify that the money comes from abroad (i.e. that you are not earning it locally and illegally – this refers to retirement, where work is not allowed)

Lopburi did not say “800K in the bank and 65K monthly income”, nor did he intend this, but you may have misunderstood it as such.

---------------

Maestro

[Noel]

I've read a few places about an anticipated increase in the retirement bank account amount to 1.5 million. Is that a fact, or just a rumour?

All things considered, I'd rather not have a bunch of money sitting around in a Thai bank earning zero interest when it could be invested elsewhere more profitably. J

Any talk of increases is nothing more than rumour.

Why do you think you would get zero interest in a Thai bank?

Click on: BOT Interest Rates

[rainman]

not to be rude or something ..but don't you think after working your whole life and retirning at age 50+ (that's approximately 30 years of working), you should have saved up about 400k baht/10,000 USD? you mean you couldn't save 40 dollars a month (do the math) a month since you were 20? what did you do with your life? come on.. you couldn't immigrate, nevermind live in most european countries with that amount of money required by thai immigration.

[jas007]

Pieman,

Of course most people contemplating retirement have the kind of money required by Thai immigration. Still, life isn't quite so simple, sometimes. A person may have money in a trust fund, or maybe in a retirement account that can't be touched until a certain age without a big penalty. Or perhaps one has money invested with a hefty unrealized capital gain, but the required long term holding period hasn't passed. In short, people like to make the most of what they have, and that requires planning. But it's hard to plan anything when the rules keep changing.

J

[Maestro]

Is there some official site where the need for a bank account in addition to the income is documented?

Now you’ve caught me out

I was wrong when I said it was advisable to show a bank book. I should have said that it was mandatory.

It’s all there on the often quoted web site of the Immigration Bureau. Click on “Visa Extension”, then on “to spend the remainder of life” (doesn’t work with Firefox browser)

--------------

Maestro

[Gary A]

I was always amused that Thai immigration logic says that two can live cheaper than one.

I need 800,000 baht for my retirement visa and if I would get the support visa I only need 400,000.

Actually they are correct. I found that for some reason (??) since I got married, my cost of living dropped drastically.

[ray23]

Of course the costs dropped down, your not shopping for the same things as before

It is the one thing I thnk the Thia's were completly correct on, same thing happened to me after I got married

[OneeyedJohn]

May I suggest that one keeps a constant balance of either 400/800 whatever ur needs.. because one day I'm

sure they ( Imm ) will want to see just that. If not for any other reason than the earlier poster said

regarding exiting this country.Any complacency when dealing wiv these people is seriously ill advised, and I'm always as nervous as a kitten when I go there every year.

While I'm ere I would like to ask about the ppl that get a monthly stamp by crossing the border and paying 250B (Burma) and doing this for years !!!???? Is this another 'depends who u see or where u go ' thing ?

[rainman]

Of course the costs dropped down, your not shopping for the same things as before

It is the one thing I thnk the Thia's were completly correct on, same thing happened to me after I got married

you mean your personal spending decreased but your overall spending increased?

[ray23]

Of course the costs dropped down, your not shopping for the same things as before

It is the one thing I thnk the Thia's were completly correct on, same thing happened to me after I got married

you mean your personal spending decreased but your overall spending increased?

No I think my wife has the first satang she every got hidden away in her shoe Much better at budgeting me then me Since marriage I save a fortune on cell phones alone ( oh those newbie days)

I give her a house hold budget each month, then she pays for everything the entire month and still has money left over for savings. It's funny she gets upset about the electric bill, as the aircon on warm days run about 20 hours a day. My answer not my problem you pay the bills

I give her 60K a month, but 10K goes for a house payment and 10K goes for the truck payment, so she has 40K a month to use. Eat 50/50 on Thai food and farrrang foods, not for any other reason then it's what I like. Go bowling several times a week. She still saves money each month. I'm not a bar guy the only reason I went before was to meet women hopefully who could speak english. Ended up marrying a lady who at first didn't speak a word of english. Introduced by a Lao friend, working on a farm in the NKP area. Mother, Father deceased, we don't always get along, don't know many couples who do all the time. But she understands that we need eachother and have to work through the problems together.

Oh trust me I have a lot more goodies and comforts in my life spending less then I ever did as a single guy out playing the games. I have to admit on an occasional basis playing the games is fun, but not for me a a lifestyle, thats what vacations are for

Edited April 25, 2006 by ray23