'Bringing The Good Guy Back' - Supporters Plan Birthday Bash For Thaksin

[TAWP]

Need to look at the effects it had on the black market economy, as with drugs comes prostitution and in this area of the world trafficking in people.

"with drugs comes prostitution"? No, that just isn't a correct representation of users nor sequence of events.

[jayboy]

It always amazes me that so many people on here so happily accept the removal of basic democratic rights such as the right to trial for those labelled as something a society finds unacceptable. I wonder how many of these people would accept the killing of their sons or daughters or brothers and sisters without trial. However, I guess if they are first labelled a drug dealer that would be OK. Democracy is a hard thing but you either believe in it and all that comes with it including innocence until proven guilty or you accept non-democratic governance. There is no middle path.

Of course there is, it's what we have in Thailand. You'll never understand this place until you stop thinking with a Western brain.

"Right to trial"? Why do you think it was called a "War on drugs"?

If I had to nominate one member who has a profound and broad understanding of Thailand it would probably be Hammered.I think you will find at another level (published and respected foreign commentators/academics on Thai culture, politics and society etc)they all very much think, to use your rather unlettered expression, with a "Western brain".

[scorecard]

Its like most things that get posted here. Taken out of context or made up scenarios with figures that have no bearing on actual fact. 2,500 -2,600 dead with the war on drugs? I remember reading about 2005 it was more like 950, with 50 shot in shoot outs and about 800-900 shot with police issued bullets. Now, you also need to go back and look at crime and death rates prior to the start of this crackdown. Need to look at the effects it had on the black market economy, as with drugs comes prostitution and in this area of the world trafficking in people. There are turf wars and buffer zones that become unsafe for many people to enter and live. I can sincerely say together with my experience people involved in the trafficking and use of drugs are some people that you wouldn't take home to meet mum.

But what were the actual numbers killed during this period and what is your source? Its great to deliver an electrifying and elegant post that basically points out your own opinion, but were you there and did you do some of the follow up work in an area that not many will take on. It is also an area of work that supplies a great deal of corruption.

I don't condone killing and I do believe it is sad when a life is lost, but there have been some people I have meet, that if their life ended I would see the benefit the community would receive.

I don't know why so many were killed, but then again go and talk to some of the police that were involved in this action. I can only assume that the action was very dangerous, particularly when one is to confront some one who enjoyed one time protection from the people that 'may' have offered them protection. May is subjective as I am assuming this.

Its like saying Thaksin. As soon as one has a differing opinion on what he did or what should happen now, the man is and poster can be torn to pieces. But what were the 4 charges he ended up with; and how is this seen in the western world?

Under Thai law the defendant has to be present for the criminal proceedings to proceed, and Thaksin fled the country.

So you make claims that the numbers people quote are unsubstantiated, so where's your proof of 900?

And, what's the four charges you mention.

[DumFarang]

Kalasin-Issan ,mother and father are still trying to get answers to "Where is our son" missing in the war on drugs, He happens to be 1 of the 2.5 k international organisations do not seem to have the answers. (or are lied to) My point being the P.M. at the time ordered the war on drugs to satisfy the world outcry====what about their(victims) birthday bash???????

At the time, In any given month in there were approximately 400 murders a month, many of which were unsolved and drug related.

<snip>

innocent people were being murdered by the drug dealers on any given day. Chances are that many of these people or their relatives or their friends would have been killed had the government of Thailand not intervened. Civilians always die in wars. That too is the reality.

As I recall, and many of the new posters here may not know this, but at the time the "War on drugs" was started, the consensus was that it was a good idea. It was a great shame that people innocent of the drugs trade were also killed either accidentally or deliberately.

Exactly. It sounds like a good idea until strange, unexpected death reports start rolling in. The "this sounds like a good idea" part, for most people anyway, accompanies the assumption that a lot of bad people will go to jail, and, when necessary, there will be some casualties and collateral damage. What actually happened went well beyond what most people imagined.

[Jingthing]

I can't believe the last post. War schwar. They were extra-judicial MURDERS. That means ILLEGAL, and it is documented that many of those murdered were indeed completely INNOCENT VICTIMS. War ethics may apply in actual wars as in armed conflicts between nations or civil wars. Wars on drugs, poverty, idiocy, etc. are not REAL wars and they don't negate the rule of law. In Thailand, accused criminals are supposed to get trials. There is nothing the slightest bit defensible about the extrajudicial killings that happened under Thaksin.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Jingthing

[Thaddeus]

I can't believe the last post.

No, neither can I.

I've talked some crap in my life, but that one deserves an award.

[cdnvic]

Removed post that modified another's quote and quoted replies.

[Crushdepth]

Kalasin-Issan ,mother and father are still trying to get answers to "Where is our son" missing in the war on drugs, He happens to be 1 of the 2.5 k international organisations do not seem to have the answers. (or are lied to) My point being the P.M. at the time ordered the war on drugs to satisfy the world outcry====what about their(victims) birthday bash???????

At the time, In any given month in there were approximately 400 murders a month, many of which were unsolved and drug related. Almost 80% of those deaths involved a forearm. Following the blow delivered to the drug cartels and their Burmese based drug suppliers, Thailand's murder rate fell dramatically. (And before any smartass wants to play with the numbers and say there was not a significant drop off, remove the murders related to the southern insurgency which spiked in 2005-2006.) Those are the facts. Why do you think the murder rate fell by almost 40%? Do you think it is possible that the drug gangs were shooting and bribing their way to control of various regions? Yes, many people that died during the fight against the drug cartels were innocent civilian casualties, but they were often murdered by the drug trafficers. The assumption that 2500 were killed in extrajudicial killings can not be proven. There is no doubt that many people died due to the gross negligence of the police and the army. The responsible parties are the police and military commanders. It is easy to point the finger. It makes all the Thaksin haters happy because it provides a neat simple solution to what was a complex problem. The Prime Minister ordered that the people of Thailand be protected against a slow moving assumption of control by drug cartels in Thailand. Rather than taking potshots at a PM that took a tough decision you should be expressing gratitude because Thailand would have been taken over by the drug cartels had Mr. Thaksin not acted with the full support of the population.

It is unfortunate an innocent person may have died. However, innocent people were being murdered by the drug dealers on any given day. Chances are that many of these people or their relatives or their friends would have been killed had the government of Thailand not intervened. Civilians always die in wars. That too is the reality.

This from the same guy who decries coup-related deaths as heinous crimes? Oh Gold Medal Hypocrisy. So where did you get these stats from? The same organisation that carried out the killings, perchance?

Credibility: Zero.

[lannarebirth]

Its like most things that get posted here. Taken out of context or made up scenarios with figures that have no bearing on actual fact. 2,500 -2,600 dead with the war on drugs? I remember reading about 2005 it was more like 950, with 50 shot in shoot outs and about 800-900 shot with police issued bullets. Now, you also need to go back and look at crime and death rates prior to the start of this crackdown. Need to look at the effects it had on the black market economy, as with drugs comes prostitution and in this area of the world trafficking in people. There are turf wars and buffer zones that become unsafe for many people to enter and live. I can sincerely say together with my experience people involved in the trafficking and use of drugs are some people that you wouldn't take home to meet mum.

But what were the actual numbers killed during this period and what is your source? Its great to deliver an electrifying and elegant post that basically points out your own opinion, but were you there and did you do some of the follow up work in an area that not many will take on. It is also an area of work that supplies a great deal of corruption.

I don't condone killing and I do believe it is sad when a life is lost, but there have been some people I have meet, that if their life ended I would see the benefit the community would receive.

I don't know why so many were killed, but then again go and talk to some of the police that were involved in this action. I can only assume that the action was very dangerous, particularly when one is to confront some one who enjoyed one time protection from the people that 'may' have offered them protection. May is subjective as I am assuming this.

Its like saying Thaksin. As soon as one has a differing opinion on what he did or what should happen now, the man is and poster can be torn to pieces. But what were the 4 charges he ended up with; and how is this seen in the western world?

The reason so many were killed is because Thaksin set monthly quotas on how many murders he wanted done. Police commanders were told in no uncertain terms that their careers were at risk if they did not comply.

[bobmac10]

Happy Birthday Dr. Thaksin!!!

That's an insult to the thousands of victims of the extra-judicial killings.

Then take it up with;

1. The drug cartels that were settling scores and securing territory and/or,

2. Those that used the drug war as cover to settle feuds and/or,

3. The police and army personnel that engaged in the alleged wrongful acts

It has been established that there is no evidence upon which to charge the former PM with anything related to the deaths. It's wonderful that you wish to take up the cause of these victims now.

In the interim, I remind you that there may be free cake and in Thailand when the balloons go up, a farang will find them, especially if there is FREE CAKE.

It's time to celebrate with Mr. Thaksin and send him all your loving. I bet if Justin Bieber is in town he'd sing Happy Birthday to Mr. Thaksin. You like Justin Bieber don't you?

Well, here's a clip of Justin singing happy birthday. Sing along with him and get into the spirit of joy.

And remember there may be FREE CAKE.

Oh Puh-leeese! not the Beiber!

[bobmac10]

Happy Birthday Dr. Thaksin!!!

That's an insult to the thousands of victims of the extra-judicial killings.

Then take it up with;

1. The drug cartels that were settling scores and securing territory and/or,

2. Those that used the drug war as cover to settle feuds and/or,

3. The police and army personnel that engaged in the alleged wrongful acts

It has been established that there is no evidence upon which to charge the former PM with anything related to the deaths. It's wonderful that you wish to take up the cause of these victims now.

In the interim, I remind you that there may be free cake and in Thailand when the balloons go up, a farang will find them, especially if there is FREE CAKE.

It's time to celebrate with Mr. Thaksin and send him all your loving. I bet if Justin Bieber is in town he'd sing Happy Birthday to Mr. Thaksin. You like Justin Bieber don't you?

Well, here's a clip of Justin singing happy birthday. Sing along with him and get into the spirit of joy.

And remember there may be FREE CAKE.

Chocolate cake?

If so, where and what time?

[bobmac10]

I think it's time we recognised how good Mr T was for business in Thailand and how he tried to open up the country to foreign investment and make it easier for foreigners to buy a piece of Thailand.

He understands the country needs the investment to grow and how it has to adopt a more outward view of the world.

Happy birthday MrT!

[Valentine]

I think it's time we recognised how good Mr T was for business in Thailand and how he tried to open up the country to foreign investment and make it easier for foreigners to buy a piece of Thailand.

He understands the country needs the investment to grow and how it has to adopt a more outward view of the world.

Happy birthday MrT!

Such as wanting to sell off agricultural land to Saudi businessmen. Correct me if I am wrong but I thought today was the 3rd August not 1st April. Mr T was very good for business especially his own & those close to him but did it really raise the standard of living for the majority? I agree that adopting a more outward view of the world can be beneficial as long as they do not lose sight of their roots & culture. After all the unique place that is Thailand is what has drawn many of us here.

[bobmac10]

I think it's time we recognised how good Mr T was for business in Thailand and how he tried to open up the country to foreign investment and make it easier for foreigners to buy a piece of Thailand.

He understands the country needs the investment to grow and how it has to adopt a more outward view of the world.

Happy birthday MrT!

Such as wanting to sell off agricultural land to Saudi businessmen. Correct me if I am wrong but I thought today was the 3rd August not 1st April. Mr T was very good for business especially his own & those close to him but did it really raise the standard of living for the majority? I agree that adopting a more outward view of the world can be beneficial as long as they do not lose sight of their roots & culture. After all the unique place that is Thailand is what has drawn many of us here.

Saudis money was good enough for Britain why not Thailand?

Half of London is owned by the House of Saud, but the money came in handy.

This attitude that we can't sell property to foreigners is flawed, you would like to buy property in Thailand?

So would I.

And we can buy property in Saudi if we want, (not that I would).

Money has to go around.

[Ricardo]

I think it's time we recognised how good Mr T was for business in Thailand and how he tried to open up the country to foreign investment and make it easier for foreigners to buy a piece of Thailand.

He understands the country needs the investment to grow and how it has to adopt a more outward view of the world.

Happy birthday MrT!

And it was even more generous of Mr T, that it was sometimes his own bits of Thailand, which he was offering to sell to them, he was even willing to change the law (Shin Corp & foreign-ownership of telecoms) to make it legal for them (Temasek/Singapore) to buy, if he had been willing to let the country itself share in the bonanza by gaining a little bit of tax on the deal, he might yet be PM, IMO.

And his generous Elite-Card scheme, which was going to generate a million members, at one million Baht each, was promised to enable foreigners to finally purchase their own small piece of land here. Pity it failed-to-deliver, and eventually just failed, completely.

The generous opportunity to sell Swampy its X-ray security-machines, with an entirely-appropriate mark-up, the deal to let the foreign Duty-Free concessionaire retain their competition-free monopoly with extra space, the chance for Thai Air Asia to start-up a new airline with tax-concessions not-available to their competitors, the frozen-chicken for fighter-planes deal, what a wonderful array of attempts to "open up the country to foreign investment".

The FTA with China, to help his friends in Chiang Mai sell their dried-fruit, but which opened the country to a damaging-to-Thai-farmers flood of cheap imported garlic, oh "how good Mr T was for business in Thailand".

The government-loan to Burma, so they could access the Shin Corp satellite, another deal solely for Thailand's benefit ? The 'hub of medical tourism', now who had just invested in private-hospitals, when that idea was promoted ? The list is almost endless.

[TAWP]

If Thaksin was really pro-free market perhaps we would have been happier and he wouldn't have been able to steal as much...so that didn't happen.

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

The list is almost endless.

And it'll be growing again, soon.

[animatic]

So, who imagined that PR snowjob here would stop after he won back control through proxies?

[Siam Simon]

So, who imagined that PR snowjob here would stop after he won back control through proxies?

Are you referring to the TVF politics discussions?

It's a shame the 'Today's Most Prolific Posters' (or whatever it was called) column was stopped. You know, the one that used to appear to the right of the main forum page. I always enjoyed a quick look, and the snowstorm was always coming from the opposite direction. Buchholz and jdinasia both actually managed to beat the Classifieds on post-count a few times .

[Artisi]

Maybe the "good guy" can be brought back and treated the same as

http://www.smh.com.a...0803-1ibol.html

as there seems to be many similarities for both parties.

Edited August 4, 2011 by Artisi

[Buchholz]

So, who imagined that PR snowjob here would stop after he won back control through proxies?

Are you referring to the TVF politics discussions?

It's a shame the 'Today's Most Prolific Posters' (or whatever it was called) column was stopped. You know, the one that used to appear to the right of the main forum page. I always enjoyed a quick look, and the snowstorm was always coming from the opposite direction. Buchholz and jdinasia both actually managed to beat the Classifieds on post-count a few times .

Today's Top Posters are still listed on the Index Page and the number of times the multitude of Designated Red Shirt Poster of the Week exceeded Classifieds is innumerable.

[Siam Simon]

So, who imagined that PR snowjob here would stop after he won back control through proxies?

Are you referring to the TVF politics discussions?

It's a shame the 'Today's Most Prolific Posters' (or whatever it was called) column was stopped. You know, the one that used to appear to the right of the main forum page. I always enjoyed a quick look, and the snowstorm was always coming from the opposite direction. Buchholz and jdinasia both actually managed to beat the Classifieds on post-count a few times .

Today's Top Posters are still listed on the Index Page and the number of times the multitude of Designated Red Shirt Poster of the Week exceeded Classifieds is innumerable.

Can you be more specific? The Index Page used to have a user-friendly 'today's top posters' (thanks for the reminder about the name) column to the right of the index. I've just logged in on Mozilla (I normally use Opera) but still can't see it? Where do I look?

[Buchholz]

So, who imagined that PR snowjob here would stop after he won back control through proxies?

Are you referring to the TVF politics discussions?

It's a shame the 'Today's Most Prolific Posters' (or whatever it was called) column was stopped. You know, the one that used to appear to the right of the main forum page. I always enjoyed a quick look, and the snowstorm was always coming from the opposite direction. Buchholz and jdinasia both actually managed to beat the Classifieds on post-count a few times .

Today's Top Posters are still listed on the Index Page and the number of times the multitude of Designated Red Shirt Poster of the Week

This week's designee:

Member Posts Today

samurai 72

[webfact]

time to close this topic and continue here:

Thai govt at work to bring back Thaksin

Follow this link:

//CLOSED//