Electric Shower Heater

[thaibeachlovers]

I'd like to install an electric shower heater in my bathroom, but I read elsewhere on the forum that they can draw 40 amps, and my one and only circuit breaker is 10 amps.

I'm not paying to install a circuit just for the shower, so does anyone know if there are shower heaters that draw under 10 amps, preferably from Home Pro.

I could ask the staff there, but I doubt they'd understand what I was talking about, and just say whatever they think will make a sale. I once watched them destroy an electric grill, because they couldn't work out how to remove the tray to clean it!

Otherwise, I will try and find a gas heater, and failing that, keep using hot water in a bucket, but I'd love to have a shower.

Thanks for any help.

[VocalNeal]

Amps = Watts/Volts. So 10 Amps at 220v = 2200 watts. The problem is in my limited experience of once buying a shower heater they come in 3500 watt or 4500 watts for up north.

You may find a 2500 watt version but then you have to consider the whole experience. If you want a "hot" shower the laws of physics will dictate a lower water flow so you will end up with a dribble rather than a shower.

Another alternative would be a small water heater tank on the wall as they can use time and so draw less current. But then you will need extra plumbing and a mixer tap.

If you live in a house you could get some black hose and put it on the roof and run the bathroom water through it but volume is still a problem.

[InterestedObserver]

You would need one rated at 2000 Watts (2kW) or less. That's not much of a water heater and totally inadequate for northern Thailand, where it gets cold. You would also need to install a ground rod/wire and RCD for the electrical circuit.

[Crossy]

Yup. The smallest I've seen is 3500W which will just run on a 5/15 meter.

Gas would be a good option if your supply isn't up to an electric unit but remember ventilation is vital for safety, just in case you missed it VENTILATION!!!!

[thaibeachlovers]

Yup. The smallest I've seen is 3500W which will just run on a 5/15 meter.

Gas would be a good option if your supply isn't up to an electric unit but remember ventilation is vital for safety, just in case you missed it VENTILATION!!!!

Thanks everyone. Gas would appear to be the only option if I can afford it. No problem with ventilation, the bathroom has those ventilation bricks with no way of closing them,

I had actually intended to use the black pipe on the roof , but the problem I have is getting up there! It's way high, and the only ladder we can borrow is too derelict for me. My wife has been up it nailing cable clips and laying wire in the rafters for the past few days, but even it is too short to reach the roof. I'd have to either buy an aluminium one ( expensive ) or make one from long bamboo, which is growing on the property, but that will take time and investment in tools and something for rungs. Still, I might be able to put it on the list of things to do, if there's any chance of completing it before we leave.

[afarang]

My first one ,water heater ,that is ,I made from about 40 lengths of blue plastic pipe. Supported on a couple of lengths Of about 2 inch pipe. Raised off the ground by about 1 metre. Worked a treat .But had to wait until after 16.00 hours , otherwise the water was too hot and would burn you. 15 years later and it still works !!!! Sorry ,no good if you want a shower in the morning. Bulk cheap ,but.

[thaibeachlovers]

My first one ,water heater ,that is ,I made from about 40 lengths of blue plastic pipe. Supported on a couple of lengths Of about 2 inch pipe. Raised off the ground by about 1 metre. Worked a treat .But had to wait until after 16.00 hours , otherwise the water was too hot and would burn you. 15 years later and it still works !!!! Sorry ,no good if you want a shower in the morning. Bulk cheap ,but.

Thanks for that idea. Self supporting so doesn't need to go on the roof. Brilliant. And, blue piping is way cheap up here- 30 bht for a length of small diameter.

I'll get on that after I come back from Fun City. My bathroom is on ground level, so can rig up a thermo syphon system with a tank on the house level, which will solve the too hot factor.

Great, another project to keep boredom at bay!

[Pib]

Yup. The smallest I've seen is 3500W which will just run on a 5/15 meter.

You sure? That would actually be running the meter past its max since a 3500W heater on a 220V line would draw 15.9amps. And if the main circuit box has only a 10amp main breaker and/or 10 amp individual area breaker(s) it's going to be tripping all the time. Probably ditto if the breakers are 15 amp especially with switching surges. Also sure hope the person don't have any other circuit(s) drawing power (i.e., lights, fans, TV, stereo, small A/C, etc) on a 5/15meter paired with a main circuit box which can only carry 10 or 15amps because when the 3500W heater turns on there is definitely a high probability of circuit breakers tripping.

Edited July 30, 2011 by Pib

[Crossy]

Yup. The smallest I've seen is 3500W which will just run on a 5/15 meter.

You sure? That would actually be running the meter past its max since a 3500W heater on a 220V line would draw 15.9amps. And if the main circuit box has only a 10amp main breaker and/or 10 amp individual area breaker(s) it's going to be tripping all the time. Probably ditto if the breakers are 15 amp especially with switching surges. Also sure hope the person don't have any other circuit(s) drawing power (i.e., lights, fans, TV, stereo, small A/C, etc) on a 5/15meter paired with a main circuit box which can only carry 10 or 15amps because when the 3500W heater turns on there is definitely a high probability of circuit breakers tripping.

A 5/15 meter will be quite happy with a small overload (up to 50% would be no issue, they're built to survive), they're often fused at 20A or so anyway (or not fused). The 3500 Watt heater will likely be rated at 230V so will actually draw 14.6A at 220V (it's resistive and not constant power).

I did say 'just' run but it certainly won't run on our OPs 10A breaker, if the incoming cable is adequate an increase in breaker rating is in order.

[Pib]

A little bit of a real world story here. Just got back from visiting the mother-in-law about 50Km's outside Bangkok and also the brother & sister-in-law who live right next door to the mother. All the houses on their soi use single phase 220V, 3/15A meters per the plate on the meters. Both in-laws houses have almost identical main circuit breaker boxes of a 10A main breaker and 4 to 6 individual area 5A breakers.

The No. 1 son of the brother/sister-in-law had just bought mom and day a microwave and washing machine...deliveried just yesterday. Microwave was an 800W model which pulls around 4A. They tested out the microwave yesterday evening and it tripped a circuit breaker when trying to warm up a test bowl of noodles....of course they plugged it into a circuit already running their TV, C band set- top box, one frig, two fans, and some lights....of course all of these loads were probably turned on when they tested the microwave. They figured out pretty fast what the problem was circuit overloading and not a microwave problem by testing it while plugged into a bedroom circuit. Not sure how many amps the washing machine draws but it probably several amps minimum...but they haven't hooked it up electrically or water pipe wise yet....it will require a circuit to be run to it due to where they want to place it.

Anyway, the village electrician is coming over early in the week to fix them up electrically....I expect in terms of running more wiring, circuit breaker addition/upsizing, etc. I'm sure it will all be done in accordance with strict Thai electrical standards (village edition), which still complies to the two wire/no safety ground 3rd wire approach....and of course the Safety First motto will be stricly complied with. The brother-in-law's main circuit breaker box "externally" looks almost identical to the mother-in-law's main circuit box...I've looked before and internally the mother's circuit box has 6 individual area breakers installed but only 4 are wired up....don't know if the brother-in-law's box has all 6 breakers in use/hooked up or maybe a couple are not wired up. Da villiage tech will figure all of that out. Plus, I don't think one (or maybe both) of their two bedroom air con's are hooked up through the main box and have separate breakers somewhere.

I expect once the brother-in-law gets his electrical circuits modified by the village technician and considering the other electrical stuff they have in the house like two small air con's, electrical stuff in the No. 1 son's run, electrical stuff in the No. 1 daughter's room, and just other electrical stuff throughout the house there may be times that they take the 3/15A meter pass the 15A point, especially if the village technician puts in a 20A main breaker and some additional 5 or 10A individual breakers are added to the box. Or, bypasses the main box and adds some additional/indivudual breakers mounted on the wall. Or, just makes sure everyone understands certain things can't be turned on at once. So many combination of things possible. But as mentioned, I expect strict Thai electrical code will be maintained. But hey, if the meter breaks/blows a fuse that's the Provincial Electrical Authority responsibility to fix

P.S. Sure hope the No. 1 son next home buy is not a water heater. But then again, the villiage electrical techician could probably easily lay in that circuit. One thing for sure, villiage homes built numerous years ago were definitely not wired up with the future electrical loads (or safety) in mind....but back then maybe the "future electrical requirements" were considered just to be more fans, lights, and a TV.

D.P.S. I just may take my clamp ampmeter with me on next week's visit to the brother-in-law, ask him to turn most of his stuff on for a minute or so (assuming his gets the microwave and wasther hooked up), and see how many amps is flowing from the pole meter. Of course if the meter's wheel is spinning at 10,000RPM I may not want to get that close to it.

[sezze]

Yes , a 5/15 meter is sufficient for a 3500watt heater . I've seen and used it , with people i know . The fuse has to be stronger , it is only the meter who rates at 5/15 . Anything heavier i would recommend gas . I have a unit like that and it deliveres plenty of unlimited hot water .

Another solution is solar DIY , but finding the materials is a hassle . A complete solar unit as ready from shop is expensive .

[Axpat]

Yup. The smallest I've seen is 3500W which will just run on a 5/15 meter.

Gas would be a good option if your supply isn't up to an electric unit but remember ventilation is vital for safety, just in case you missed it VENTILATION!!!!

Thanks everyone. Gas would appear to be the only option if I can afford it. No problem with ventilation, the bathroom has those ventilation bricks with no way of closing them,

I had actually intended to use the black pipe on the roof , but the problem I have is getting up there! It's way high, and the only ladder we can borrow is too derelict for me. My wife has been up it nailing cable clips and laying wire in the rafters for the past few days, but even it is too short to reach the roof. I'd have to either buy an aluminium one ( expensive ) or make one from long bamboo, which is growing on the property, but that will take time and investment in tools and something for rungs. Still, I might be able to put it on the list of things to do, if there's any chance of completing it before we leave.

Why don't you use more bamboo for the rungs? Or easier still, buy a ladder. Or even easier still, pay someone to install it all for you. If you're as old as I am you can't be short of a few bob, splash that hard earned cash and make life easy for yourself.

[electau]

The size of meter (5/15A) is not really the problem, they can take up to 100% overload quite safely, the accuracy may be affected. It only records consumption in kWh, it does not limit the max demand, the MCB does that.

What is the current rating of the consumers mains? They should be a minimum of 32A .The main circuit breaker should be a minimum of 32A.

If you install a 3500watt or 4500 watt type use a 20A MCB as the protective device and wire in 2.5sqmm on a final sub circuit. Earth the water heater. The water heater will probably have an internal 10mA RCD fitted in the unit as an ON/OFF switch.