Does Anyone Use Or Need Kefir Grains?

[tropo]

Tropo; yes, most of the lactose will be gone - and I am not lactose intolerant - but the milk we get here in Thailand (when it IS milk - and not just milk powder in water as many brands here are!), the milk comes from conventionally raised cows being overly exposed to pesticides and antibiotics. Some studies have indicated that the fermentation ALSO help with eliminating some of that - but if I can get it to work with something like coconut milk - why not?

Do you have any data available to indicate exactly what is in the milk here. Have you seen an analysis of it?

It's like that with anything we eat or drink these days. You take the good with the bad and hope the good outweighs the bad, which is definitely the case with kefir. You don't have a lot of choices here in Thailand.

In the Philippines I only had access to UHT milk, so that is what I used.

I don't believe kefir grains will last long using only coconut milk. You'll have to cycle the grains to real milk to keep the colony healthy and thriving. If you want to use coconut milk I would suggest you only use a portion of them so you have a backup.

Edited April 24, 2013 by tropo

[Firefan]

Jayman and Tropo; thanks for the tips!

Tropo I do not have anything specifically for Thailand; but any conventional (not talking raw/organic) milk have the same issues some described here by (medical) Dr. Mercola: http://www.mercola.com/article/milk/no-milk.htm

He mentions both antibiotics and hormones, but not too much about pesticides (from the cheap ass feed most cows get....sorry, but cows are supposed to eat GRASS!). He also mention dried milk powder issues, which is the base for several of the "fresh" milks you see in super markets here. I am no expert there since do not drink milk(directly..I eat cheese and butter milk), but there was a good thread here couple of year ago about it.

Anyway; it will not stop me from making kefir also from milk as I believe with good milk the benefits out weight the negatives - will use the "Little farm" (or something similar..forgot) brand which apparently have organic/free range procedures(even if not certified yet). There are also some small bottles with organic milk in the fancier super markets - but they are rather over priced.

Now; anybody in BKK got some kefir to share?

Cheers!

[qiactivated]

Dear Kefir Lovers,

Would someone be so kind to supply or inform where to get some Kefir grains etc.

Thanking you in advance for your efforts.

Sincerley, Paul Bangkok

[poanoi]

You'll have to cycle the grains to real milk to keep the colony healthy and thriving.

How often do i have to make more in order to keep the colony healthy and thriving ?

[tropo]

You'll have to cycle the grains to real milk to keep the colony healthy and thriving.

How often do i have to make more in order to keep the colony healthy and thriving ?

I was referring to making coconut milk kefir. Jayman knows a lot more about this as he has been making it in coconut milk.

In ordinary milk your kefir grains will multiply and you'll soon have too much. Once the grain to milk volume goes over 4 to 1, you've either got to use more milk or subtract grains. You can freeze your excess, or give them away, or eat them.

Edited May 5, 2013 by tropo

[poanoi]

Well initially they were multiplying quick, but for the last 3 months i cant see any increase in grains,

and the resulting kefir is also not as thick as it was.

So i was wondering if keeping them in fridge nearly 2 weeks without letting them out in warm & milk would slowly kill them off ?

Edited May 5, 2013 by poanoi

[tropo]

Well initially they were multiplying quick, but for the last 3 months i cant see any increase in grains,

and the resulting kefir is also not as thick as it was

Good thing you mentioned it. The fact that they have stopped multiplying is an indication they're dying. It's too much heat that is causing this.

I suggest you follow my advice I gave earlier in this thread. Give them a rest in the refrigerator. I rest mine for 2 - 2.5 weeks at a time and make enough kefir to drink over 2 weeks in 3 large batches. Mine grow so fast I can't give them away fast enough. Every 6 litres of kefir production results in about 30% of kefir grain growth.

[poanoi]

When i save them for later, i sort of stir in the filter until most liquid is filtered out, (liquid which become my drink kefir)

then put the stock in a box with lock, and place in fridge.

I was doing about 24 hour in this heat, and once up to 28 hour,

tho now i try to do about 19 hour

Edited May 5, 2013 by poanoi

[robblok]

Well initially they were multiplying quick, but for the last 3 months i cant see any increase in grains,

and the resulting kefir is also not as thick as it was

Good thing you mentioned it. The fact that they have stopped multiplying is an indication they're dying. It's too much heat that is causing this.

I suggest you follow my advice I gave earlier in this thread. Give them a rest in the refrigerator. I rest mine for 2 - 2.5 weeks at a time and make enough kefir to drink over 2 weeks in 3 large batches. Mine grow so fast I can't give them away fast enough. Every 6 litres of kefir production results in about 30% of kefir grain growth.

Mine also dont seem to grow much.. i do 2 batches and then put them in the fridge as you said so its probably still a heat problem

[tropo]

Well initially they were multiplying quick, but for the last 3 months i cant see any increase in grains,

and the resulting kefir is also not as thick as it was

Good thing you mentioned it. The fact that they have stopped multiplying is an indication they're dying. It's too much heat that is causing this.

I suggest you follow my advice I gave earlier in this thread. Give them a rest in the refrigerator. I rest mine for 2 - 2.5 weeks at a time and make enough kefir to drink over 2 weeks in 3 large batches. Mine grow so fast I can't give them away fast enough. Every 6 litres of kefir production results in about 30% of kefir grain growth.

Mine also dont seem to grow much.. i do 2 batches and then put them in the fridge as you said so its probably still a heat problem

When I'm "brewing" now it's about 30C over night and maybe a bit cooler the rest of the day as I use aircon to keep my lounge/kitchen area cooler.

It's strange how we have a totally different experience despite using similar methods and the same grains. When you rest them in the fridge do you give them plenty of milk?

[tropo]

When i save them for later, i sort of stir in the filter until most liquid is filtered out, (liquid which become my drink kefir)

then put the stock in a box with lock, and place in fridge.

I was doing about 24 hour in this heat, and once up to 28 hour,

tho now i try to do about 19 hour

If you store (rest) them in the fridge, give them lots of milk to rest in.

[tropo]

When i save them for later, i sort of stir in the filter until most liquid is filtered out, (liquid which become my drink kefir)

then put the stock in a box with lock, and place in fridge.

I was doing about 24 hour in this heat, and once up to 28 hour,

tho now i try to do about 19 hour

Do you have a thermometer? What is your "brewing" temperature. If you have a meat thermometer you can give us an exact temperature inside the brewing jar.

[robblok]

Well initially they were multiplying quick, but for the last 3 months i cant see any increase in grains,

and the resulting kefir is also not as thick as it was

Good thing you mentioned it. The fact that they have stopped multiplying is an indication they're dying. It's too much heat that is causing this.

I suggest you follow my advice I gave earlier in this thread. Give them a rest in the refrigerator. I rest mine for 2 - 2.5 weeks at a time and make enough kefir to drink over 2 weeks in 3 large batches. Mine grow so fast I can't give them away fast enough. Every 6 litres of kefir production results in about 30% of kefir grain growth.

Mine also dont seem to grow much.. i do 2 batches and then put them in the fridge as you said so its probably still a heat problem

When I'm "brewing" now it's about 30C over night and maybe a bit cooler the rest of the day as I use aircon to keep my lounge/kitchen area cooler.

It's strange how we have a totally different experience despite using similar methods and the same grains. When you rest them in the fridge do you give them plenty of milk?

Not as much as for brewing.. but say double the amount of grains maybe more for milk. How dry do you make your kefir grains.. i mean i shake them relatively dry, I dont rinse them just put them back.

[robblok]

Just as I said they don't increase overnight a massive increase and speed with what they process the milk. I don't know why but i'm happy. I love my kefir. All part of a healthy diet.

[Chonburiram]

Do you think kefir is suitable for alcoholics or people who want live alcohol free; is kefir halal?

[tropo]

Not as much as for brewing.. but say double the amount of grains maybe more for milk. How dry do you make your kefir grains.. i mean i shake them relatively dry, I dont rinse them just put them back.

I never rinse them. They go back into the fridge relatively wet when they're taking a break. When I'm making kefir they also go back into the jar quite wet. The more kefirin (gooey, sticky stuff) adhering to the grains the faster the batch will brew. I also never wash the jars between batches.

[tropo]

Do you think kefir is suitable for alcoholics or people who want live alcohol free; is kefir halal?

That's an interesting question.

This is what Dom (kefir guru) has to say about the alcohol content of kefir:

http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html

"Kefir has a uniform, slightly creamy consistency, a sour refreshing flavour, with a slight subtle aroma of fresh yeast [or a very subtle beer-like aroma]. Kefir also has a slightest hint of a natural effervescent zesty tang. There is an assortment of some 40 aromatic compounds contributing to the unique flavour and distinctive pleasant aroma of kefir. Rounding this off, kefir contains between 0.08% to 2% alcohol. However, about .08 to .1% alcohol is a realistic figure for 1-day cultured kefir. Whereas kefir stored for a number of days after separating the natural mother-culture, kefir grains [see following], contained up to 2% alcohol, and possibly 3% alcohol, depending on the type of milk and ripening conditions. [Yep-- wow!]."

Ok, so let's assume you brew your kefir for 1 day and drink the kefir soon after, then the alcohol content is about 1%. If you're drinking a 250 ml glass of kefir, then it would contain about 2.5ml of alcohol. I store my prepared kefir (separated from the kefir grains) for up to 2 weeks, so my alcohol content could be 2 - 3%, therefore giving me 5 - 7.5ml of alcohol per 250ml serve.

Would this be a problem for an alcoholic? I don't know. Perhaps someone with experience could comment.

Edited May 6, 2013 by tropo

[tropo]

Here's a great read about the importance of gut bacteria. This is really worth reading.

The scary truth about probiotics:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_scary_truth_about_probiotics

This a definite thumbs up for kefir.

[robblok]

Here's a great read about the importance of gut bacteria. This is really worth reading.

The scary truth about probiotics:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_scary_truth_about_probiotics

This a definite thumbs up for kefir.

Real nice atricle.. makes me happy that im taking my kefir.. and like the guy said in the article I do believe its better as the other pro biotics as you make it at home and have a good supply of it. When you buy stuff in pills you never know for sure if it works.

[tropo]

Here's a great read about the importance of gut bacteria. This is really worth reading.

The scary truth about probiotics:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_scary_truth_about_probiotics

This a definite thumbs up for kefir.

Real nice atricle.. makes me happy that im taking my kefir.. and like the guy said in the article I do believe its better as the other pro biotics as you make it at home and have a good supply of it. When you buy stuff in pills you never know for sure if it works.

It's always fun to read TC Luomo's articles. Who would have thought such a great article about probiotics would have appeared in a bodybuilding publication.

Kefir has more strains of friendly bacteria than all the other foods put together.

Kefir is rarely hyped or publicized because there's no money in selling it. Once you have your grains and you treat them well, you'll have kefir forever.

[robblok]

Here's a great read about the importance of gut bacteria. This is really worth reading.

The scary truth about probiotics:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_scary_truth_about_probiotics

This a definite thumbs up for kefir.

Real nice atricle.. makes me happy that im taking my kefir.. and like the guy said in the article I do believe its better as the other pro biotics as you make it at home and have a good supply of it. When you buy stuff in pills you never know for sure if it works.

It's always fun to read TC Luomo's articles. Who would have thought such a great article about probiotics would have appeared in a bodybuilding publication.

Kefir has more strains of friendly bacteria than all the other foods put together.

Kefir is rarely hyped or publicized because there's no money in selling it. Once you have your grains and you treat them well, you'll have kefir forever.

I heard that is not the case with commercial strains.. that they are made to expire after a while.

Anyway i will not shake my grains as dry anymore so they will grow faster and better.

[tropo]

Here's a great read about the importance of gut bacteria. This is really worth reading.

The scary truth about probiotics:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_scary_truth_about_probiotics

This a definite thumbs up for kefir.

Real nice atricle.. makes me happy that im taking my kefir.. and like the guy said in the article I do believe its better as the other pro biotics as you make it at home and have a good supply of it. When you buy stuff in pills you never know for sure if it works.

I forgot to mention....did you catch that part about serotonin production after eating high carb foods?

"The theory is that the strains of bacteria produced an inordinate amount of serotonin, which is a calming chemical that often rises, for instance, after you eat high-carbohydrate foods. In truth, the human brain normally contains a very small amount of serotonin, while 80% of your serotonin supply is found in the gut, so it shouldn't be a stretch to think that bacteria aren't influencing the supply."

Does this mean that people on low carb diets are grumpy and edgy? I do feel really good and satisfied after eating high carb foods compared to low carb with protein.

This article has also got me wondering if my continuous kefir consumption for nearly 2 years is the reason I'm now able to handle high carb meals and easily remain lean.

[robblok]

Here's a great read about the importance of gut bacteria. This is really worth reading.

The scary truth about probiotics:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_scary_truth_about_probiotics

This a definite thumbs up for kefir.

Real nice atricle.. makes me happy that im taking my kefir.. and like the guy said in the article I do believe its better as the other pro biotics as you make it at home and have a good supply of it. When you buy stuff in pills you never know for sure if it works.

I forgot to mention....did you catch that part about serotonin production after eating high carb foods?

"The theory is that the strains of bacteria produced an inordinate amount of serotonin, which is a calming chemical that often rises, for instance, after you eat high-carbohydrate foods. In truth, the human brain normally contains a very small amount of serotonin, while 80% of your serotonin supply is found in the gut, so it shouldn't be a stretch to think that bacteria aren't influencing the supply."

Does this mean that people on low carb diets are grumpy and edgy? I do feel really good and satisfied after eating high carb foods compared to low carb with protein.

This article has also got me wondering if my continuous kefir consumption for nearly 2 years is the reason I'm now able to handle high carb meals and easily remain lean.

Im not sure about the high carb meals and staying lean I read more into it that it curbs cravings.. but I could be wrong.

It has been said that low carb guys are grumpy and edgy then again that seems to change after a while after the body accepts its its only the transition phase.

But i like the article but we should not accept everythng like the ghospel.. I am of course since i started the kefir a big fan of it. I think its part of a balanced diet.

[tropo]

. I am of course since i started the kefir a big fan of it. I think its part of a balanced diet.

The more I discover about pro-biotics and intestinal flora, the more I'm inclined to consider kefir as the main event, not just part of a "balanced diet", whatever that mysterious term means.

[sweetie808]

Hi--I live in Phuket. Do you still have Kefir grains or know where I can get them?

Thanks!

[The Fermentalist]

Hi Tropo - I'm in Pattaya for the weekend, and am on the HUNT - but not for the usual thing in Pattaya. I want kefer grains!!!

I have a mobile (085-913-3966), or an email ([email protected]), or any other way of meeting you - please reply soon! I'm only here for the weekend then back to BKK.

Would love to meet with you somehow!

[seeker108]

Hi Tropo and others. I have just quickly glanced here and will read more detail later. But bottom line is how can friends in BKK most easily get kefir grains. I started a club in CNX before I left the area and brought in lots of grains and now the are growing nicely in many homes up there (both milk and water.

Now I have suddenly gotten some urgent requests from people with health issues in BKK. Maybe answer is here already and I will find later, but just now I am late for a healing therapy.

[connda]

I would like to get some Kefir grains. I live in Chiang Mai. I tried to join the CM Probotics Group on Facebook, but nobody has responded to my "join" request. I know people have them here, I just have to find someone with some extra who's willing to share with a newbie kefir drinker. I'm just now coming off 7 days of antibiotics, and I would like to reestablish the flora in my digestive tract. I'm currently buying kefir at Adans, but at 55 baht per bottle, it's going to become a 1650 baht/month habit. Having grains would be much more cost effective.

Any help would be appreciated.

[tropo]

Here's some info about freezing kefir grains....

I recently revived some kefir grains that I had frozen for nearly 2 years (21 months).

I froze the grains according to Dom's recommendations, coating them in milk powder after rinsing and towel drying them.

It would seem that Dom is wrong, or deliberately misleading people about freezing grains. He claims that you shouldn't freeze them for more than 2 months or you'll destroy the yeast component of the grains.

After nearly 2 years in the freezer I produced perfectly normal drinking kefir from the very first batch. There was no discernible taste difference.

For people interested in numbers, I defrosted 100 grams of kefir grains. This weight included the milk powder coating. I added 300 ml of fresh milk and let it sit for 48 hours. There was clear separation of the kefir whey at the end of 48 hours and the kefir produced tasted perfectly normal. I did several more 500 ml batches, each batch taking only 24 hours to complete... then I increased to 1.2 L and finally 1.8 L. The 1.8 L batch took less than 24 hours to complete.

My average brewing temperature is 29.4 C right now.

So there you go - no problem freezing for 2 years. I have another frozen batch I will leave until the 3 year mark, but my guess is that kefir grains can be frozen for many, many years and still be viable.

For those of you who haven't, I would recommend you freeze some of your grains as a back up plan. Put a date in the freezer bag.

[poanoi]

You got white fingers, i get less and less grains now every time,

so i wonder if the grains demand some kind of frequency,

how often do you make kefir ?