Thai Drivers

[thaiIand]

Just read a nice line in a dean koontz novel last night.

blahblah she wanted to kill a driver who was behaving like a dumbass then she said 'I have to put aside my anger, anger is a weakness, the only true emotion is compassion, i should be compassionate over that man who is fairly weak intellectually. He didnt mean to drive like an idiot he just does not have the brain capacity to drive properly, i should take his license # and be compassionate and give him the ultimate release from his painfull life limitation once we are alone in privacy"

not an exact quote but pretty close, first time i really relate to a quote in a book haha. Just wish they'd give me a better way to be compassionate than killing them off.

Edited August 22, 2011 by thaiIand

[Tonto21]

OP you do understand that letting space for motorbikes to go up front if what causes 50% of the thai traffic?

Motorbikes are so EFFIN slow, having to pass them at every light and then them coming back up and blocking your way is what makes everyone miss every green light.

Keeping them in the back would make the traffic better and SAFER.

Its inconsiderate to let them pass.

Absolutely spot on.....

Do you drive a Ferrari?? Unless you have a top sports car you stand no chance of matching most motorbikes' acceleration!

p.s. If you do have a Ferrari, please get in touch with me !

Most of the time, it's not so much a question of acceleration power than of reaction time. Most driver take 5 sec after green to put in 1st gear and slowly pull away, almost coming to a stand-still for shifting into 2nd. Of course, most motorbikes are faster, but if you have even a medium powerful car and good reaction time and all start when it's actually green (not 5 sec early), then I out-accelerate most motorbikes.

(PS: Not a Ferrai, but a 420HP S5)

Out -accelerate most bikes Scooters yes.......Motorbikes, in your dreams!

[Dag]

The questions is.....do they know what the word 'inconsiderate' means and does it then mean anything to them ??

[Atmos]

You're right - to a certain extent. I was wrong saying "most motorbikes".

However, my automatic Honda Airblade easily out-accelerates all cars (that I have come across) and even most proper motorbikes.

You need to get out more.

Have you ever seen a 'proper motorbike'?

A standard Suzuki 600 will be doing 100km/h after 3.5 seconds.

The Airblade?

Few cars can match that, and certainly no scooter.

[WarpSpeed]

Lane splitting is legal in California.

Sure seems to be legal here too.

Don't see Thailand listed here.. Source Wiki.

Lane splitting is permitted in the following countries:

Austria

Belgium

Brazil

Croatia

Cyprus

Estonia

Greece

Ireland

Italy

Japan

Mexico

Netherlands (jurisprudence assigns responsibility in case of accidents to the car driver [60])

Norway

Oman

Poland [61]

Portugal

Qatar

Singapore

Spain

South Africa

Sweden

Turkey

U.A.E.

United Kingdom

[StreetCowboy]

Lane splitting is legal in California.

Sure seems to be legal here too.

Don't see Thailand listed here.. Source Wiki.

Lane splitting is permitted in the following countries:

Austria

Belgium

Brazil

Croatia

Cyprus

Estonia

Greece

Ireland

Italy

Japan

Mexico

Netherlands (jurisprudence assigns responsibility in case of accidents to the car driver [60])

Norway

Oman

Poland [61]

Portugal

Qatar

Singapore

Spain

South Africa

Sweden

Turkey

U.A.E.

United Kingdom

I don't really like motorcyclists passing between me and an adjacent moving vehicle, but generally I think it bad practice to drive alongside another car for any distance in any case. I certainly don't like driving that close to a motorcyclist, for my part, so I get particularly annoyed by motorcyclists driving on the white line between two empty lanes, effectively forcing one to pass them a little too close for comfort, or blocking both lanes, depending on how you look at it.

Anyway, surprisingly, I still have not hit a motorcyclist yet. I no longer worry about being able to see them in the mirror; I reckon if I signal, they have plenty of time to make their own arrangements.

SC

[WarpSpeed]

Lane splitting is legal in California.

Sure seems to be legal here too.

Don't see Thailand listed here.. Source Wiki.

Lane splitting is permitted in the following countries:

Austria

Belgium

Brazil

Croatia

Cyprus

Estonia

Greece

Ireland

Italy

Japan

Mexico

Netherlands (jurisprudence assigns responsibility in case of accidents to the car driver [60])

Norway

Oman

Poland [61]

Portugal

Qatar

Singapore

Spain

South Africa

Sweden

Turkey

U.A.E.

United Kingdom

I don't really like motorcyclists passing between me and an adjacent moving vehicle, but generally I think it bad practice to drive alongside another car for any distance in any case. I certainly don't like driving that close to a motorcyclist, for my part, so I get particularly annoyed by motorcyclists driving on the white line between two empty lanes, effectively forcing one to pass them a little too close for comfort, or blocking both lanes, depending on how you look at it.

Anyway, surprisingly, I still have not hit a motorcyclist yet. I no longer worry about being able to see them in the mirror; I reckon if I signal, they have plenty of time to make their own arrangements.

SC

Yep I see it the same way.. Did have one lay it down and run into my rear wheel when I was making a right turn though in spite of several meters of signaling before and surprise surprise there was a BiB right there so they had to get up and dust themselves off with no compensation as even he couldn't blame me on that one and deny I had given plenty of notice and made a proper turn (well he could have but it wouldn't have gotten him very far).. The thing I'm grateful for was that this was in a pick up which was higher then a car and they could have very easily slid right under the truck bed and I would have rolled right over them but as good luck would have it he managed to hit my wheel dead center.. Hope he went and paid merit..

dam_n! The road quality pisses me off more, I hate these concrete drainage covers that line the side of the road and break all the time, today wasted one brand new front rim and dented the bead on the rear on one of those that had broken through and no one had marked it yet , it's a certain death trap for a motocy rider..

Edited August 22, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[poanoi]

Yes, i see it that way too,

PROVIDED you guys actually start signal WELL before you plan to turn

Start Signaling 2 meters before you turn will obviously be of NO use

Edited August 22, 2011 by poanoi

[aneliane]

Has someone ever been told in driving course that the whites stripes on the road were not just pretty lines to be ignored ?

[KKK]

Lane splitting is legal in California.

Sure seems to be legal here too.

Don't see Thailand listed here.. Source Wiki.

Lane splitting is permitted in the following countries:

Austria

Belgium

Brazil

Croatia

Cyprus

Estonia

Greece

Ireland

Italy

Japan

Mexico

Netherlands (jurisprudence assigns responsibility in case of accidents to the car driver [60])

Norway

Oman

Poland [61]

Portugal

Qatar

Singapore

Spain

South Africa

Sweden

Turkey

U.A.E.

United Kingdom

Just because Thailand is not listed doesn't mean that it is illegal here. Judging by how commonplace it is and that I've never been fined or warned and neither have any of my motorcycling friends for doing it I'd reckon it was legal. But did you see the picture on the wiki page of BKK traffic

All those bikes waiting in the zebra crossing....Now that's inconsiderate of pedestrians who may want to cross and is most definately illegal here. But I've never seen or heard of any motorcyclist being fined for it.

[3billygoats]

1) I would like to complain about this thread and ask for it to be closed. (so many threads are closed nowadays, especially those criticizing our fine hosts)

2) I've been driving here for 65 years, and ridden large sports bikes here for 30 years, as well as owning multiple scooters and a Nissan GT-R. I have to admit that i have never owned a Ferrari.

3) Any more anti-Thai threads should be stopped before the ink is dry.

4) I love TV (that's not transvestites)

[KKK]

1) I would like to complain about this thread and ask for it to be closed. (so many threads are closed nowadays, especially those criticizing our fine hosts)

2) I've been driving here for 65 years, and ridden large sports bikes here for 30 years, as well as owning multiple scooters and a Nissan GT-R. I have to admit that i have never owned a Ferrari.

3) Any more anti-Thai threads should be stopped before the ink is dry.

4) I love TV (that's not transvestites)

So you don't agree to freedom of speech. You've had yours let others have theirs....

[midas]

1) I would like to complain about this thread and ask for it to be closed. (so many threads are closed nowadays, especially those criticizing our fine hosts)

2) I've been driving here for 65 years, and ridden large sports bikes here for 30 years, as well as owning multiple scooters and a Nissan GT-R. I have to admit that i have never owned a Ferrari.

3) Any more anti-Thai threads should be stopped before the ink is dry.

4) I love TV (that's not transvestites)

so what you're effectively implying is that according to your driving standards there is no room or need for any improvement ?

So the BIB can go on collecting their tea money and let's just forget the topic

It's a good job that not everyone agrees with you

" There is a lack of independent policing to ensure tourist bus or commuter van drivers are qualified, sober and are not driving for extended periods without a rest. Fines for speeding are low and most offenders ignore police summons or demands to to pay fines. Even official government bus services to the main tourist destinations cruise at high speeds exceeding the 90 kph speed limit. "

Thailand 2nd worst Country for Road Safety

http://thailand-business-news.com/travel/31091-thailand-2nd-worst-country-for-road-safety

Alarm raised on tourist road kill

http://www.ttrweekly.com/site/2011/08/alarm-raised-on-tourist-road-kill/

Edited August 23, 2011 by midas

[KKK]

1) I would like to complain about this thread and ask for it to be closed. (so many threads are closed nowadays, especially those criticizing our fine hosts)

2) I've been driving here for 65 years, and ridden large sports bikes here for 30 years, as well as owning multiple scooters and a Nissan GT-R. I have to admit that i have never owned a Ferrari.

3) Any more anti-Thai threads should be stopped before the ink is dry.

4) I love TV (that's not transvestites)

65 years driving here + start driving at 15 = 80+ years old....2011-80..born say 1931....old enough to have been in the Hitlerjugend ... were you?

[F1fanatic]

You're right - to a certain extent. I was wrong saying "most motorbikes".

However, my automatic Honda Airblade easily out-accelerates all cars (that I have come across) and even most proper motorbikes.

You need to get out more.

Have you ever seen a 'proper motorbike'?

A standard Suzuki 600 will be doing 100km/h after 3.5 seconds.

The Airblade?

Few cars can match that, and certainly no scooter.

I have no doubt you're right, but they're few and far between..... Most proper motorbikes here presumably have a smaller engine than that (albeit bigger than the 110cc Airblade) and are pretty slow accelerating away - I suspect its 'cos they're not automatic. Which is why I said my Airblade "out-accelerates...... most proper motorbikes".

[F1fanatic]

1) I would like to complain about this thread and ask for it to be closed. (so many threads are closed nowadays, especially those criticizing our fine hosts)

2) I've been driving here for 65 years, and ridden large sports bikes here for 30 years, as well as owning multiple scooters and a Nissan GT-R. I have to admit that i have never owned a Ferrari.

3) Any more anti-Thai threads should be stopped before the ink is dry.

4) I love TV (that's not transvestites)

So you don't agree to freedom of speech. You've had yours let others have theirs....

He's being ironic. Admittedly badly.

[WarpSpeed]

Lane splitting is legal in California.

Sure seems to be legal here too.

Don't see Thailand listed here.. Source Wiki.

Lane splitting is permitted in the following countries:

Austria

Belgium

Brazil

Croatia

Cyprus

Estonia

Greece

Ireland

Italy

Japan

Mexico

Netherlands (jurisprudence assigns responsibility in case of accidents to the car driver [60])

Norway

Oman

Poland [61]

Portugal

Qatar

Singapore

Spain

South Africa

Sweden

Turkey

U.A.E.

United Kingdom

Just because Thailand is not listed doesn't mean that it is illegal here. Judging by how commonplace it is and that I've never been fined or warned and neither have any of my motorcycling friends for doing it I'd reckon it was legal. But did you see the picture on the wiki page of BKK traffic

All those bikes waiting in the zebra crossing....Now that's inconsiderate of pedestrians who may want to cross and is most definately illegal here. But I've never seen or heard of any motorcyclist being fined for it.

You can't be serious right?? Nice lemming like thought process. Until a few years ago in spite of helmet laws here being on the books for some time it wasn't enforced either and in that vein what about driving against the flow of traffic or using a people cross walk for a U turn or riding on the sidewalks. Most laws are merely based on common safety sense and courtesy, does it not occur to you that none of these behaviors fall under the category of common safety sense nor being courteous? If not then that speaks volumes.

Yes, blocking the walks is just as inconsiderate and illegal and applies the same sense of common safety logic and courtesy being discussed. The same applies for the poor soul trying to get out of the bus at the stop and not getting run over or blocked in..

When you have an uneducated and massively unlicensed, under enforced population like this with this many violators, in the overall scheme of things, as a foreigner you're at the bottom of the enforcement list and still the numbers of violators overwhelm you as an individual..

Edited August 23, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[Berkshire]

Hey to expand on this a bit, Is it only Thai's that are the inconsiderate drivers ?

I mean let's be fair. This thread makes it appear that Thais are the only inconsiderate drivers in the world and you are all appalled by it somehow.

In the country you come from does everybody behave like stellar model citizens? Always let you in? Headlights and tailights functional all the time? They never get mad? Never block your driveway? Park their 4 or 5 cars on their lawns? Cut you off then blame you? Dive into a parking place you were waiting for? Tailgate then flash lights or honk their horns? Wont let you merge in? Honk and scream at you if they think you are not acting in a way they think you should?

I seriously doubt it is any different where you come from. Sure there are a few things that are a bit skewed here but over all after driving here for 4 or so years and then visiting other countries I found the same level of behavior, give and take a few oddities. The reality is people get in their vehicle of choice and they feel empowered and that everything outside the confines of their car does not matter. No country with motor vehicles is free of this. It comes with the territory.

Personally I enjoy driving here knowing that there are not cops hiding in tree areas with radar waiting to give me at ticket for doing 27 in a 25. Or not completely stopping at a stop sign, or parking with my bumper 3"inches into a red zone or handicap spot, or turning into a bike lane too soon to make a right. The Ticky Tacky BS that happens in California is enough to make you go nuts. Of course coupled with that are exorbitant fines, traffic school and insurance hike rates. I will take Thailand, its drivers and laws any day over California.

Excellent post. An extremely fair and balanced assessment. Agree 100%. One of the few sensible posts on this thread that cuts through all the racist crappola and nonsensical hyperbole.

[StreetCowboy]

1) I would like to complain about this thread and ask for it to be closed. (so many threads are closed nowadays, especially those criticizing our fine hosts)

2) I've been driving here for 65 years, and ridden large sports bikes here for 30 years, as well as owning multiple scooters and a Nissan GT-R. I have to admit that i have never owned a Ferrari.

3) Any more anti-Thai threads should be stopped before the ink is dry.

4) I love TV (that's not transvestites)

So you don't agree to freedom of speech. You've had yours let others have theirs....

He's being ironic. Admittedly badly.

No he's not, he's being sarcastic.

As a simple rule of thumb, irony is when you actually mean what you say, sarcasm is when you don't. Irony is therefore often unintended.

SC

[Kananga]

1) I would like to complain about this thread and ask for it to be closed. (so many threads are closed nowadays, especially those criticizing our fine hosts)

2) I've been driving here for 65 years, and ridden large sports bikes here for 30 years, as well as owning multiple scooters and a Nissan GT-R. I have to admit that i have never owned a Ferrari.

3) Any more anti-Thai threads should be stopped before the ink is dry.

4) I love TV (that's not transvestites)

So you don't agree to freedom of speech. You've had yours let others have theirs....

He's being ironic. Admittedly badly.

No he's not, he's being sarcastic.

As a simple rule of thumb, irony is when you actually mean what you say, sarcasm is when you don't. Irony is therefore often unintended.

SC

Thats not strictly true. Ironic statements usually mean the opposite of their literal meaning or if an effect took on the opposite meaning than what was intended. So an example of irony would be your boss sending you an email telling you to make sure you are proofreading your emails for spelling mistakes before sending them and having 4 spelling mistakes in his email to you. If you then reply to him saying 'No problem, you're setting a great example' then you are being sarcastic in reply.

It is worth noting that Alanis Morissette's awful song Ironic actually contained no examples of irony. For example the first line - Its like ray- ey -ain, (rain), on your wedding day. Thats not ironic, thats just bad luck. Now if on said wedding day the father in law gets pulled over on the way home for drink driving and it turns out he is a traffic policeman, then that would indeed be ironic as its the opposite of what traffic police should do. It would also make for a more interesting song.

Sarcasm often uses irony as part of its form.

[maxme]

I think there are several reasons for the traffic mess in Thailand. How can you expect anybody be driving safe and well mannered when it only takes half a day to get a driver's license?

Second, if you take into fact that most of the people have poor eduaction along with a driver's test that doesn´t require more than for you to back, turn, park and use indicators, you can surely see the reason for the mess it is today.

I could be wrong but last time I checked accident statistics it was between 40-60 000 accidents PER YEAR. If you want to change this then you need to get the system working first.

[midas]

I think there are several reasons for the traffic mess in Thailand. How can you expect anybody be driving safe and well mannered when it only takes half a day to get a driver's license?

Second, if you take into fact that most of the people have poor eduaction along with a driver's test that doesn´t require more than for you to back, turn, park and use indicators, you can surely see the reason for the mess it is today.

I could be wrong but last time I checked accident statistics it was between 40-60 000 accidents PER YEAR. If you want to change this then you need to get the system working first.

Fully agree!

I have watched someone going through the so-called driving test here in Thailand and it's totally inadequate.

Driving round an area the size of a mini golf course is no proof of competency out on the roads and it takes them 5 to 10 minutes here compared to about at least 30 to 40 minutes in UK.

while I watched this video of what you have to go through in the UK to get a licence it was like stepping back in time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keu4-gPgzqQ

Edited August 25, 2011 by midas

[GetLost]

Is it ironic that this thread, in General Topics, not language or cars/motors has become what it has; a language lesson?

[zzaa09]

Is it ironic that this thread, in General Topics, not language or cars/motors has become what it has; a language lesson?

Deliberate irony.

[Semper]

I think there are several reasons for the traffic mess in Thailand. How can you expect anybody be driving safe and well mannered when it only takes half a day to get a driver's license?

Second, if you take into fact that most of the people have poor eduaction along with a driver's test that doesn´t require more than for you to back, turn, park and use indicators, you can surely see the reason for the mess it is today.

I could be wrong but last time I checked accident statistics it was between 40-60 000 accidents PER YEAR. If you want to change this then you need to get the system working first.

Car Crash Stats: There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005.

[Thakkar]

I've just had a cursory glance at this thread but I gather that it's a running diatribe against atrocious Thai driving.

Some thoughts I've posted on the CM forum on a similar topic may, I hope, contribute to the conversation on this thread:

In the Seventies, during a period of fast growth, a formerly rural area of Hong Kong known as Yuen Long, rapidly urbanized within a few years. Highways, roads, street widening, massive housing estates and a light rail transit system were piled on one after the other. There was a spate of easily preventable accidents caused by bad driving, people failing to move out of the way and pedestrians crossing without looking, or crossing too slowly.

Turns out that driver/pedestrian education hadn't kept up with the overnight growth of what was becoming a whole new city. The original rural residents had simply been caught flat-footed and had failed to adjust.

The West urbanized at a much slower pace than the urbanization occurring in developing countries. There was considerably more time for people and systems to adjust. Sadly, governments rarely learn from the mistakes of past governments or from the experiences of governments elsewhere so that every developing country is more of less going through the same mill.

The erratic driving, flexible rules compliance and general confusion on the roads here can, I think, be explained by the fact that we have a lot of the accouterments of a modern city but with a public mindset and bureaucratic functionings of a generation ago; the software simply hasn't caught up with the hardware.

T

Also:

You can whine and rant and proclaim your righteousness all you want, but you aren't going to change the way other people drive.

You can however, control how you react. So do the doable and, as Naboo says: 'Try harder to stay alive'

T

[Dag]

I almost squashed a motorbike rider up the rear end of an elephant yesterday.

It was the elephants fault, the driver pulled out onto the road without looking.....

[midas]

In the Seventies, during a period of fast growth, a formerly rural area of Hong Kong known as Yuen Long, rapidly urbanized within a few years. Highways, roads, street widening, massive housing estates and a light rail transit system were piled on one after the other. There was a spate of easily preventable accidents caused by bad driving, people failing to move out of the way and pedestrians crossing without looking, or crossing too slowly.

Turns out that driver/pedestrian education hadn't kept up with the overnight growth of what was becoming a whole new city. The original rural residents had simply been caught flat-footed and had failed to adjust.

The West urbanized at a much slower pace than the urbanization occurring in developing countries. There was considerably more time for people and systems to adjust. Sadly, governments rarely learn from the mistakes of past governments or from the experiences of governments elsewhere so that every developing country is more of less going through the same mill.

The erratic driving, flexible rules compliance and general confusion on the roads here can, I think, be explained by the fact that we have a lot of the accouterments of a modern city but with a public mindset and bureaucratic functionings of a generation ago; the software simply hasn't caught up with the hardware.

but ultimately Thais could be trained to drive more carefully and follow the rules if the bureaucrats

we are really interested in public safety ? If they can train Thai's to fly 747's and military aircraft

in accordance with international flight regulations and rules they could equally teach people which is the correct

side of the road on which to drive?

[Thakkar]

In the Seventies, during a period of fast growth, a formerly rural area of Hong Kong known as Yuen Long, rapidly urbanized within a few years. Highways, roads, street widening, massive housing estates and a light rail transit system were piled on one after the other. There was a spate of easily preventable accidents caused by bad driving, people failing to move out of the way and pedestrians crossing without looking, or crossing too slowly.

Turns out that driver/pedestrian education hadn't kept up with the overnight growth of what was becoming a whole new city. The original rural residents had simply been caught flat-footed and had failed to adjust.

The West urbanized at a much slower pace than the urbanization occurring in developing countries. There was considerably more time for people and systems to adjust. Sadly, governments rarely learn from the mistakes of past governments or from the experiences of governments elsewhere so that every developing country is more of less going through the same mill.

The erratic driving, flexible rules compliance and general confusion on the roads here can, I think, be explained by the fact that we have a lot of the accouterments of a modern city but with a public mindset and bureaucratic functionings of a generation ago; the software simply hasn't caught up with the hardware.

but ultimately Thais could be trained to drive more carefully and follow the rules if the bureaucrats

we are really interested in public safety ? If they can train Thai's to fly 747's and military aircraft

in accordance with international flight regulations and rules they could equally teach people which is the correct

side of the road on which to drive?

I hope I didn't come off as an apologist. Trying to understand why things are the way they are is not the same as making excuses for them. My point was that the situation is not some kind of proof of inherent Thai inferiority.

The sooner the software catches up with the hardware, the fewer innocent lives will be ruined, so it can't happen soon enough as far as I'm concerned.

A genuine effort to understand problems and following up with constructive criticism would, IMO, be more helpful than just showing disdain and putting on airs of Western superiority.

T

[F1fanatic]

In the Seventies, during a period of fast growth, a formerly rural area of Hong Kong known as Yuen Long, rapidly urbanized within a few years. Highways, roads, street widening, massive housing estates and a light rail transit system were piled on one after the other. There was a spate of easily preventable accidents caused by bad driving, people failing to move out of the way and pedestrians crossing without looking, or crossing too slowly.

Turns out that driver/pedestrian education hadn't kept up with the overnight growth of what was becoming a whole new city. The original rural residents had simply been caught flat-footed and had failed to adjust.

The West urbanized at a much slower pace than the urbanization occurring in developing countries. There was considerably more time for people and systems to adjust. Sadly, governments rarely learn from the mistakes of past governments or from the experiences of governments elsewhere so that every developing country is more of less going through the same mill.

The erratic driving, flexible rules compliance and general confusion on the roads here can, I think, be explained by the fact that we have a lot of the accouterments of a modern city but with a public mindset and bureaucratic functionings of a generation ago; the software simply hasn't caught up with the hardware.

but ultimately Thais could be trained to drive more carefully and follow the rules if the bureaucrats

we are really interested in public safety ? If they can train Thai's to fly 747's and military aircraft

in accordance with international flight regulations and rules they could equally teach people which is the correct

side of the road on which to drive?

Those flying 747's etc. are hopefully highly educated and their employers know how much an accident will cost them!

On the other hand pretty much all Thais learn to drive 'bikes from a v young age and have (IMO) little concept that bad driving could kill them - which is why they pull out of side turnings to turn left without even looking....

BUT, as I said previously, I actually prefer this as it is better to assume that ALL drivers will drive badly than to make the mistake of thinking they will drive well and not just pull out into your path.

Tourists (again, IMO) are even worse than the Thais and most ex-pats adopt the way Thais drive - so we learn not to assume anything on the road...