Thai Govt At Work To Bring Back Thaksin

[rixalex]

That's the way I understood hammered's viewpoint too - and it's an admirable one to take, because I'm pretty sure that he doesn't want Thaksin back either, but is trying to listen to the voice of the population rather than his own point of view.

Why do you wholeheartedly oppose it, may I ask?

I wholeheartedly oppose it because I fear that bringing back Thaksin might well start a civil war... but as I've already said many times, this fear possibly comes from living in the South.

I oppose it for two reasons. One, i don't think general elections should ever be used effectively as verdicts on guilt or innocence. That is always a matter for the courts, and popularity should never be a factor, otherwise you completely undermine the justice system. Two, and besides which, i don't think Thaksin returning and being free of all charges, which is what i believe PTP will attempt to achieve - especially if left to their own devices with no opposition from the Dems - will bring the reconciliation some, (perhaps hammered) seem to think it will.

Edited August 20, 2011 by rixalex

[Pi Sek]

That's the way I understood hammered's viewpoint too - and it's an admirable one to take, because I'm pretty sure that he doesn't want Thaksin back either, but is trying to listen to the voice of the population rather than his own point of view.

Why do you wholeheartedly oppose it, may I ask?

I wholeheartedly oppose it because I fear that bringing back Thaksin might well start a civil war... but as I've already said many times, this fear possibly comes from living in the South.

I oppose it for two reasons. One, i don't think general elections should ever be used effectively as verdicts on guilt or innocence. That is always a matter for the courts, and popularity should never be a factor, otherwise you completely undermine the justice system. Two, and besides which, i don't think Thaksin returning and being free of all charges, which is what i believe PTP will attempt to achieve - especially if left to their own devices with no opposition from the Dems - will bring the reconciliation some, (perhaps hammered) seem to think it will.

Your reason #2 is my #1. Your #1 should be my #1 also, but given the selective nature of the application of Law in this country, it is unfortunately not. I say unfortunately because, without the rule of Law, there can never be true democracy.

[lannarebirth]

Lets hope not. It would potentially set off utter chaos. I dont know of anyone who would support that, and a lot of the people I know dont even vote PTP, but accept that Thaksin is going to be part of the future of a country that is going to have differences of opinion on many things, which will have to be resolved through democracy. Quite a sophisticated opinion really. Then again most people whether they like Thaksin or not have far far more important things to worry about, and one trend I notice among Thai friends is that everyone thinks he is coming back and so it might as well be sooner rather than later as once he is back it ends all the games that go on while he trots round the world and one lot try to keep him away and the other try to bring him back. I am actually amazed that every non-PTP person I know right down to the most ardent PADer thinks he will be back and not serve time

You must know the most intellectual Thai people in all of Thailand. I employ 100+ Thai's in various businesses and the running theme from all the people that work for us from the Issan area is once PTP (Thaksin Proxy THEY call them) fixes all the stuff that the DEMs did wrong the country will be perfect.. just like before. When you ask them when before is, they go blank and give the always ready Thai response to ANYTHING they don't understand "you not thai you not understand thai way" then walk away muttering about farang under their breath. We also have people working with us from the South and the opinion from them is very clearly that if Thaksin sets foot on Thai soil again expect him to be killed.. they are very hard line about it...I assume its just a lot of big talk

The interesting part to me in all of this is how many of our employees that at one point would have died for the Red Shirt movement are getting impatient with PTP obviously not all of them probably not even a majority right now but quite a few are openly questioning others on the job about when all these great things are coming, free computer, 300 baht a day, 15,000 baht per month for their kids when they graduate etc... the list of people getting impatient is growing among the Thai's I deal with daily... I wonder about all the rest of them out there...

It is also interesting to note how many of our employees have school age kids, many in University and those kids just hate Thaksin and think their parents are fools for voting 1 in the last Election.. it gets rather heated sometimes around their dinner tables we are told.

You certainly claim to know a surprising amount about the way the Thais in your employment think, feel and worry about - almost to a supernatural degree.From the evidence in your post some comments simply don't ring true or bear much resemblance to reality.Some might think you are just making it up but on that I could not possibly comment.

You auditioning for a job with Amsterdam?

[rixalex]

You certainly claim to know a surprising amount about the way the Thais in your employment think, feel and worry about - almost to a supernatural degree.From the evidence in your post some comments simply don't ring true or bear much resemblance to reality.Some might think you are just making it up but on that I could not possibly comment.

You auditioning for a job with Amsterdam?

The last sentence certainly does have that ring, doesn't it.

[Buchholz]

You auditioning for a job with Amsterdam?

Who's to say that he and some others here don't already have such a job?

The group is covering other bases of decimating information...

Probe Finds Some Newspapers Subservient to Pheu Thai Party

A probe committee has discovered some supporting evidence behind an allegation that the Pheu Thai Party has emailed three major newspapers, asking them to make biased reports for trade-offs.

Dr. Wichai Chokewiwat, chairman of the probe committee on an allegation that the Pheu Thai Party has emailed three major newspapers, aksing them to make biased reports in exchange for trade-offs, has revealed the committee's findings to the National Press Council of Thailand.

According to Wichai, the committee found that the emails were sent from Pheu Thai Party Deputy Spokesperson Wim Rungwattanajinda's account.

[Old Man River]

Unfortunately, I think the Thaksin issue must be dealt with in order for the country to move forward... he's made damned sure of that himself. I just hope it doesn't come to a choice between making him president or shooting him.

I fully agree that the Thaksin issue must be finished for Thailand to move on.

On violence against him, while you never know what a crazy will do, if organized violence against him from his previous enemies was going to happen it would have been done while he was in England (i.e. early on). For me, I think the biggest threat against him now is from the Red Shirts if they don't get what they expect.

[scorecard]

rubl makes an interesting point in response to hammered's. I note that, since the election, hammered - who cannot be described as pro-Thaksin if you look at the historical content of his posts - has emphasised that the Dems need to stop focussing on Thaksin and start focussing on sorting the country out. Well, shouldn't PTP do the same?

From what i gather of hammered's viewpoint, he seems to feel that as the voters voted the way that they did, and for the sake of reconciliation, the issue of Thaksin being made to face up to justice should now be dropped. PTP therefore should be left to get on with the job of bringing him back, and the Dems should focus on other matters.

It's an opinion i wholeheartedly oppose.

Me too!

[scorecard]

Unfortunately, I think the Thaksin issue must be dealt with in order for the country to move forward... he's made damned sure of that himself. I just hope it doesn't come to a choice between making him president or shooting him.

I fully agree that the Thaksin issue must be finished for Thailand to move on.

On violence against him, while you never know what a crazy will do, if organized violence against him from his previous enemies was going to happen it would have been done while he was in England (i.e. early on). For me, I think the biggest threat against him now is from the Red Shirts if they don't get what they expect.

And it will only take one of their leaders to start saying something negative and the gates will open. And after they did their bit in the red rallies of last year, they have not been rewarded.

[rametindallas]

Just what is it with this country's obsession with its overly rich, corrupt, law breaking people.

Do they all wish to be the same?

Are they hoping some will rub off on themselves?

IMO it is the Buddhist's belief that the next life is dependent on this life. all the beople born to be hi-so, rich, and powerful deserve it for their behavior in their last life. They are enjoying the fruits of their past labor.

[SantiSuk]

I don't have strong opinions either way on Thaksin (I wasn't here then and where does one get reliable independent info on the heinousness of his offences?).

He must be mad wanting to come back to Thailand. Life is cheap in Thailand and it appears some very powerful people have some very serious grudges against him, which they would probably do nothing about if he stays away.

[metisdead]

Numerous off topic nonsense posts and replies have been removed.

Back on topic:

Thai Govt At Work To Bring Back Thaksin BURNING ISSUE - August 18

[bristolgeoff]

unless she is tuff on her brother about the sentence he skipped.problems will be only get worse in thailand about takism and this new government

[moe666]

if Thaksin is allowed back without doing his sentence and being washed clean I think the red demonstrations will seem to be childs play. Not good for Thailand and defiantly not good for PTP.

[JetsetBkk]

if Thaksin is allowed back without doing his sentence and being washed clean I think the red demonstrations will seem to be childs play. Not good for Thailand and defiantly not good for PTP.

Time is a great healer.

Except for certain people on this forum, of course.

[hammered]

if Thaksin is allowed back without doing his sentence and being washed clean I think the red demonstrations will seem to be childs play. Not good for Thailand and defiantly not good for PTP.

Time is a great healer.

Except for certain people on this forum, of course.

And this all ends only when Thaksin does return or when he dies a natural death, which doesnt look anytime soon. He aint going to jail and his opponents cant beat him, so it is just will it be via a deal with everyone happyish, which to be honest reading between the lines seems to only be about timing, or when he eventually wins totally.

Edited to add: Suthep and Abhisit are probably a little more worried after what he said in Japan today

Edited August 23, 2011 by hammered

[jayboy]

Edited to add: Suthep and Abhisit are probably a little more worried after what he said in Japan today

Yes that was interesting as I noted from The Times's Lloyd Parry's twitter feed.

But remember Thaksin was asked a question and gave a very reasonable answer, namely that it was a matter for the Truth and Reconciliation Inquiry to decide and it should be left to do its work.

He did not say, as he might have done, that the charges against Abhisit and Suthep , if proven , are far more serious than anything he has been charged with.

This however is the dirty little secret of Thai politics which nobody seems to want to talk about.

One significant difference, as we know from Wikileaks if we hadn't already realised it from the elite's pathological hatred of the man, there was a determined effort to"get" Thaksin on whatever legal pretext that was available.I don't detect any such sentiment on the current government's side which seems much more generous spririted than its predecessor.I know there are some crazy redshirts seeking vengence but it seems they will be sidelined.

[hammered]

Edited to add: Suthep and Abhisit are probably a little more worried after what he said in Japan today

Yes that was interesting as I noted from The Times's Lloyd Parry's twitter feed.

But remember Thaksin was asked a question and gave a very reasonable answer, namely that it was a matter for the Truth and Reconciliation Inquiry to decide and it should be left to do its work.

He did not say, as he might have done, that the charges against Abhisit and Suthep , if proven , are far more serious than anything he has been charged with.

This is the dirty little secret of Thai politics which nobody seems to want to talk about.

Exactly. And the leaked CRES report will surely leave Suthep increasingly paranoid. Thaksin was on top form today - quite a number of little gems in that Q&A twitter feed. I liked the question about would there be a coup if he returned!

Nobody wants to talk about it, or nobody can but virtually every Thai person sees it, and that is why to an increasing degree the country is where it is.

[Crushdepth]

Edited to add: Suthep and Abhisit are probably a little more worried after what he said in Japan today

Yes that was interesting as I noted from The Times's Lloyd Parry's twitter feed.

But remember Thaksin was asked a question and gave a very reasonable answer, namely that it was a matter for the Truth and Reconciliation Inquiry to decide and it should be left to do its work.

He did not say, as he might have done, that the charges against Abhisit and Suthep , if proven , are far more serious than anything he has been charged with.

This however is the dirty little secret of Thai politics which nobody seems to want to talk about.

One significant difference, as we know from Wikileaks if we hadn't already realised it from the elite's pathological hatred of the man, there was a determined effort to"get" Thaksin on whatever legal pretext that was available.I don't detect any such sentiment on the current government's side which seems much more generous spririted than its predecessor.I know there are some crazy redshirts seeking vengence but it seems they will be sidelined.

"There's noone above the law"? Well, he would seem to be living proof that he was wrong

[hammered]

Edited to add: Suthep and Abhisit are probably a little more worried after what he said in Japan today

Yes that was interesting as I noted from The Times's Lloyd Parry's twitter feed.

But remember Thaksin was asked a question and gave a very reasonable answer, namely that it was a matter for the Truth and Reconciliation Inquiry to decide and it should be left to do its work.

He did not say, as he might have done, that the charges against Abhisit and Suthep , if proven , are far more serious than anything he has been charged with.

This however is the dirty little secret of Thai politics which nobody seems to want to talk about.

One significant difference, as we know from Wikileaks if we hadn't already realised it from the elite's pathological hatred of the man, there was a determined effort to"get" Thaksin on whatever legal pretext that was available.I don't detect any such sentiment on the current government's side which seems much more generous spririted than its predecessor.I know there are some crazy redshirts seeking vengence but it seems they will be sidelined.

And on the final paragraph. Indeed although if pushed I'm sure the current lot will show they have it in them. While the crazy red shirts may be sidelined what is more worrying is the growing hysteria from even no tusually crazy elements of the anti-Thaksinistas. Old Dr Tul and his 55 acolytes are screaming fire and brimstone while Sondhi sits at home saying som nam na to the Democrats and elites who abndoned him. The Democrat party dont seem to see past mass incantations against the evil one at an apopletic level whenever his name is mentioned and as the whole facade of international action against Thaksin crumbles away, and earstwhile BJT allies make all the right noises to be accepted back into camp Thaksin as soon as their penance is served

More seriously the new defence minister said promotions would be done on merit. The last mob never even bothered saying it. It was open just stuff every position with an ever increasing number of Thaksin haters. Interstingly the Thai media have been saying how both Prem and Thaksin have been interfering in the military reshuffle and the defence minister made a statement that neither was. In the English news it seems it was reported as Thaksin was not interferring. Still I guess it feeds the anger on TV

[rubl]

But remember Thaksin was asked a question and gave a very reasonable answer, namely that it was a matter for the Truth and Reconciliation Inquiry to decide and it should be left to do its work.

He did not say, as he might have done, that the charges against Abhisit and Suthep , if proven , are far more serious than anything he has been charged with.

This however is the dirty little secret of Thai politics which nobody seems to want to talk about.

What charges? Are you referring to k. Chalerm saying 'amnesty for all, except Abhisit/Suthep of course' ? The dirty, well-know big secret in Thai politics seems the involvement of fugitive criminal Thaksin in all this. And the complete denial of UDD leaders to be guilty of anything

[jayboy]

But remember Thaksin was asked a question and gave a very reasonable answer, namely that it was a matter for the Truth and Reconciliation Inquiry to decide and it should be left to do its work.

He did not say, as he might have done, that the charges against Abhisit and Suthep , if proven , are far more serious than anything he has been charged with.

This however is the dirty little secret of Thai politics which nobody seems to want to talk about.

What charges? Are you referring to k. Chalerm saying 'amnesty for all, except Abhisit/Suthep of course' ? The dirty, well-know big secret in Thai politics seems the involvement of fugitive criminal Thaksin in all this. And the complete denial of UDD leaders to be guilty of anything

An incoherent and foolish response.The subject under discussion was neither Thaksin (much though his critics like to drag him into every area) nor the UDD leadership but the possible responsibility of key members (namely Abhisit and Suthep) of the last government for the murder of civilian protesters in Bangkok.There is in the view of some a degree circumstantial evidence to support this but nothing will be clear until (or if) the Inquiry delivers its final report.Realistically it's unlikely that there will be a transparent report and even more unlikely that any government minister (or army general..ha ha) will be held responsible.That's the dirty little secret.

[rubl]

But remember Thaksin was asked a question and gave a very reasonable answer, namely that it was a matter for the Truth and Reconciliation Inquiry to decide and it should be left to do its work.

He did not say, as he might have done, that the charges against Abhisit and Suthep , if proven , are far more serious than anything he has been charged with.

This however is the dirty little secret of Thai politics which nobody seems to want to talk about.

What charges? Are you referring to k. Chalerm saying 'amnesty for all, except Abhisit/Suthep of course' ? The dirty, well-know big secret in Thai politics seems the involvement of fugitive criminal Thaksin in all this. And the complete denial of UDD leaders to be guilty of anything

An incoherent and foolish response.The subject under discussion was neither Thaksin (much though his critics like to drag him into every area) nor the UDD leadership but the possible responsibility of key members (namely Abhisit and Suthep) of the last government for the murder of civilian protesters in Bangkok.There is in the view of some a degree circumstantial evidence to support this but nothing will be clear until (or if) the Inquiry delivers its final report.Realistically it's unlikely that there will be a transparent report and even more unlikely that any government minister (or army general..ha ha) will be held responsible.That's the dirty little secret.

May I remind you that the op is "Thai Govt At Work To Bring Back Thaksin".

The 'dirty little secret' as you call it, is preceded by a few more dirty, little secrets, like some ex-PM who may not be mentioned unfavourably in parliament rumour has it

As for 'incoherent and foolish response', may I return the compliment, dear chap ?

(PS two out of three paragraphs from your post are quoting k. Thaksin. To say it's not about him and accuse others to drag him in, is indeed very foolish )

Edited August 23, 2011 by rubl

[metisdead]

Off topic baiting post and a reply removed.

[whybother]

...

He did not say, as he might have done, that the charges against Abhisit and Suthep , if proven , are far more serious than anything he has been charged with.

...

Well, of course, he didn't say that, because there ARE no charges against Abhisit and Suthep.