Wasn't it the dems that allowed Thaksin to leave the country in the first place after his conviction?

Please correct me if I am wrong on this

He left before he was convicted and it wasn't the government that allowed it, it was the courts.

It was of course a nonsense as everyone knew that the reason given (ie to watch the Olmpics - even if true, hardly pressing or urgent surely) had nothing to do with his real intentions, just as his current reasoning for wanting to visit Japan is a plain barefaced lied.

The issue for the Dems shouldn't be PTP apprehending Thaksin and bringing him back (which they failed to do themselves), it's one of Yingluck and Surapong aiding and abetting a fugitive, who is a relative to both of them (specifically and personally requesting Japan issue a visa to him).

.

Wasn't it the dems that allowed Thaksin to leave the country in the first place after his conviction?

Please correct me if I am wrong on this

He left before he was convicted and it wasn't the government that allowed it, it was the courts.

It was of course a nonsense as everyone knew that the reason given (ie to watch the Olmpics - even if true, hardly pressing or urgent surely) had nothing to do with his real intentions, just as his current reasoning for wanting to visit Japan is a plain barefaced lied.

Everyone apart from the courts obviously

Democrat Party will impeach FM Surapong for alleged role in Thaksin's Japan visa

BANGKOK, Aug 18 - The opposition Democrat Party on Thursday resolved to seek to impeach and file criminal charges against new Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul for ignoring to proceed to carry out the arrest of fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

Democrat MP Nipit Intarasombate, chief of the Democrat Party's legal team, announced the opposition's move following remarks of Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano that Japan decided to issue a visa for the ex-premier Thaksin in light of the request from the Thai government.

Mr Nipit said the foreign minister has not acted to seek the arrest of the ousted premier, but on the contrary, provided help for him.

The Democrat spokesman cited the remarks of the Japanese government official as evidence which confirmed that it was the Thai government which requested Japan to allow Mr Thaksin to enter the country.

Mr Surapong also met with the Japanese ambassador to Thailand before the new government delivers its state policy to the Thai parliament, the action which is considered as violating the Constitution, Article 176.

"The Democrat party legal team resolved to file an impeachment of Mr Surapong and will collect the names of 125 MPs, one in four of the total parliamentary seats of 500," said Mr Nipit.

"Legal proceedings will also be filed against the foreign minister as the law indicates that those who facilitate escape for persons fleeing a court's detention order could face maximum 3-year jail term or Bt6,000," he said.

Mr Nipit asserted the foreign minister is well informed that Mr Thaksin planned to enter Japan. Instead of coordinating with the Office of Attorney General and the police to bring him back for prosecution, the minister stayed inactive on the matter and asked Japan to facilitate the trip of the convicted ex-premier.

After the news conference ended, the Democrat legal team reportedly filed charges against the foreign minister at Phaya Thai Police Station.

The collection of names for the impeachment motion is expected to be complete within one day and the petition will be submitted to the Senate Speaker, who will also forward the case to the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) for investigation with condition that at least one in third senators endorsing the petition.

Ousted in a bloodless coup in Sept 2006, Mr Thaksin is still a fugitive as he was convicted in 2007 under the anti-graft law for a conflict of interest over the Ratchadapisek land scandal and the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders had sentenced him to serve a two-year jail term.

Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano earlier confirmed that Japan issued a visa to Mr Thaksin who planned to visit Japan Aug 22-28 to give a special lecture on trade, and to tour northeastern areas devastated by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami after the Thai government took "a policy of not prohibiting former prime minister from visiting any country and requested that Japan issue a visa."

Mr Surapong also told media that the Japanese ambassador to Thailand, Seiji Kojima, met him Friday at Pheu Thai Party headquarters when he asked about the policies of the new government and the planned visit of Mr Thaksin. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2011-08-18

Instead of using their time in power to work for the country - they were and still are obsessed with Thaksin, Thaksin, Thaksin….. the Thai people are sick and tired of it!

So then there has been no change between the old government and the new - both completely pre-occupied with Thaksin.

Not even Interpol recognized the conviction as legitimate – and did not issue an international arrest warrant because they believe the charges were was politically motivated - not even to go into the "impartiality" of the judiciary in this country.

Interpol expressed no such thing, you either made it up or are repeating someone who else who did.

Wasn't it the dems that allowed Thaksin to leave the country in the first place after his conviction?

Please correct me if I am wrong on this

He left before he was convicted and it wasn't the government that allowed it, it was the courts.

It was of course a nonsense as everyone knew that the reason given (ie to watch the Olmpics - even if true, hardly pressing or urgent surely) had nothing to do with his real intentions, just as his current reasoning for wanting to visit Japan is a plain barefaced lied.

Everyone apart from the courts obviously

No, i think the courts knew full well, but they obviously had their reasons. Perhaps the hope was he would live quietly in self imposed exile and return without fuss or funfair in 5 or 10 years.

The PTP can't really be complaining about the use Democrats use of impeachment.

http://www.nationmul...cs_30097666.php

I don't think the PTP are complaining. They probably expected it - with good reason.

All of this impeachment talk will be as effective for the Dems as it was for the PTP - ie it is just an attempt to derail the working of the rival political group with no concern towards building support among the electorate.

For the PTP the futility of calling for impeachment may not have been such a setback given their existing support among voters, but for the Dems, they really need to do better than mirroring the behavior of the PTP whilst evidently needing to bring more hearts and minds to their side.

I don't think they're mirroring the PTP. They are following the tradition of opposition parties such as exist in the west. If these charges were brought in the west, and if true, at the very least it would bring about the resignation of the minister, if not further charges. If the PM was proven to be complicit tghe PM would be removed. It's always sad to see people here with such a low regard for thais that they feel they don't deserve good governance.

:lol: You a funny guy!!!! 'Thais' has a capital 'T'.

Wasn't it the dems that allowed Thaksin to leave the country in the first place after his conviction?

Please correct me if I am wrong on this

In August 2008 k. Thaksin got permission to go watch the Olympic Games and didn't come back. He skipped bail and fled to the U.K. His conviction was on the 21st of October 2008.

ah, so he was convicted in his absence, but it was the dems that had been handed power at this point and allowed him to leave? Did he need permission to leave as he was not convicted of any crime at that point? I guess part of bail conditions was to surrender his passport so he did need permission.

Also did he report to the thai embassy in Hong Kong after his conviction regarding his divorce but was not arrested while at the embassy? I seem to recall this.

I think the truth of the matter is that the dems did not want him in Thailand, they have paid lip service to it, make the people think they are doing something, but at the end of the day they did nothing about it and are now trying to use it agaisnt the current government, who will bring him back anyway, but not as a convicted criminal

Note where I wrote 'he got permission to leave' ? That was the court's decision.

I'm not going to dig up other details for you, my friend. It's too easy to just put parts of news items together and ask "wasn't it", "isn't it" and expect other to either confirm or refute after long searches. In your own words 'now be a good boy, hop along'

(edit: add: divorce 16th of October 2008, a week before conviction)

Democrats in government: forget the country talk about Thaksin 24/7

Democrats in opposition: forget the country talk about Thaksin 24/7

However there is progress, at least now there is a government that actually focus on problems, not making them...

Democrats in government: forget the country talk about Thaksin 24/7

Democrats in opposition: forget the country talk about Thaksin 24/7

However there is progress, at least now there is a government that actually focus on problems, not making them...

Dem's in government, economy picking up and almost booming in spite of global financial crisis and UDD protests. Dem's in opposition, be a faithful watchdog.

The new government seems to talk about k. Thaksin all the time, their election promises still being worked out, probably/maybe in six/twelve months implemented, inflation rising, plan to pour money in peoples pockets, be evasive, too early, give us six months. The new government focussing on problems, yes indeed, the problem k. Thaksin rather than the problems of the people.

The PTP can't really be complaining about the use Democrats use of impeachment.

http://www.nationmul...cs_30097666.php

I don't think the PTP are complaining. They probably expected it - with good reason.

All of this impeachment talk will be as effective for the Dems as it was for the PTP - ie it is just an attempt to derail the working of the rival political group with no concern towards building support among the electorate.

For the PTP the futility of calling for impeachment may not have been such a setback given their existing support among voters, but for the Dems, they really need to do better than mirroring the behavior of the PTP whilst evidently needing to bring more hearts and minds to their side.

I don't think they're mirroring the PTP. They are following the tradition of opposition parties such as exist in the west. If these charges were brought in the west, and if true, at the very least it would bring about the resignation of the minister, if not further charges. If the PM was proven to be complicit tghe PM would be removed. It's always sad to see people here with such a low regard for thais that they feel they don't deserve good governance.

:lol: You a funny guy!!!! 'Thais' has a capital 'T'.

A stinging rejoinder!

Anyhow, thanks for proofreading my post for me.

However there is progress, at least now there is a government that actually focus on problems, not making them...

Democrats in government: forget the country talk about Thaksin 24/7

Democrats in opposition: forget the country talk about Thaksin 24/7

However there is progress, at least now there is a government that actually focus on problems, not making them...

Recently arrived from Bizarro World? Are you familiar with the Bizarro Code?

"Us do opposite of all Earthly things! Us hate beauty! Us love ugliness! Is big crime to make anything perfect on Bizarro World!".

I don't think the PTP are complaining. They probably expected it - with good reason.

All of this impeachment talk will be as effective for the Dems as it was for the PTP - ie it is just an attempt to derail the working of the rival political group with no concern towards building support among the electorate.

For the PTP the futility of calling for impeachment may not have been such a setback given their existing support among voters, but for the Dems, they really need to do better than mirroring the behavior of the PTP whilst evidently needing to bring more hearts and minds to their side.

I don't think they're mirroring the PTP. They are following the tradition of opposition parties such as exist in the west. If these charges were brought in the west, and if true, at the very least it would bring about the resignation of the minister, if not further charges. If the PM was proven to be complicit tghe PM would be removed. It's always sad to see people here with such a low regard for thais that they feel they don't deserve good governance.

:lol: You a funny guy!!!! 'Thais' has a capital 'T'.

A stinging rejoinder!

Anyhow, thanks for proofreading my post for me.

Since I have to spell it out for you (again), it was actually more of a riposte to your assertion that I had a lower regard for Thais than - say - yourself, who evidently can't be bothered even referring to them correctly.

Never mind. I'll let you off. You can still be a high-regarder in my book

:lol: You a funny guy!!!! 'Thais' has a capital 'T'.

A stinging rejoinder!

Anyhow, thanks for proofreading my post for me.

Since I have to spell it out for you (again), it was actually more of a riposte to your assertion that I had a lower regard for Thais than - say - yourself, who evidently can't be bothered even referring to them correctly.

Never mind. I'll let you off. You can still be a high-regarder in my book

Does this mean I also need to be more careful not to make typos?

Democrats in government: forget the country talk about Thaksin 24/7

Democrats in opposition: forget the country talk about Thaksin 24/7

However there is progress, at least now there is a government that actually focus on problems, not making them...

They appear to be Focusing on Thaksin... i guess you could consider Thaksin a problem (many do)

Call that progress if you will... its certainly not what i call progress however.

:lol: You a funny guy!!!! 'Thais' has a capital 'T'.

A stinging rejoinder!

Anyhow, thanks for proofreading my post for me.

Since I have to spell it out for you (again), it was actually more of a riposte to your assertion that I had a lower regard for Thais than - say - yourself, who evidently can't be bothered even referring to them correctly.

Never mind. I'll let you off. You can still be a high-regarder in my book

Does this mean I also need to be more careful not to make typos?

Only if they resulted in you contradicting the thrust of your personal attacks, but then I know you wouldn't do that, old chap

And there are some on here who don't believe Yingluck is a puppet of her brother

And there are some on here who don't believe Yingluck is a puppet of her brother

I don't think there's anyone here that believes she isn't a Thaksin puppet. Only those who find that fact disturbing and those who relish that fact.

One week in, and a call for impeachment. This just smacks of desperation by the Dems.

The job of an opposition party is to question the policies and actions of the government in order to either discredit them or gain credibility themselves.

None of this is about persuading the Thai electorate of anything. It's all about grabbing power by any means necessary. If the Dems wanted the will of the people to unseat the PTP (either through elections or protests etc) they would engage in a protracted series of accusations and investigations which would continue to keep the PTP in the spotlight and on the backfoot whilst eroding the number of people who would vote for them. That's how it's done in the countries many of us come from.

Instead, it's 'never mind the politics, feel the law!' as once again the legal system is abused to make a cheap political point that will be forgotten by the next election.

Indeed - The opposition's job is to examine and question the govt's policies. This is a job they do on behalf of the electorate - the Thai people as a whole Thai politics just sees to be a battle between two self-interested elites trying to grab power.

Wouldn't it be nice if both sides actually stated building a sound democracy with all the incumbent institutions?

Since I have to spell it out for you (again), it was actually more of a riposte to your assertion that I had a lower regard for Thais than - say - yourself, who evidently can't be bothered even referring to them correctly.

Never mind. I'll let you off. You can still be a high-regarder in my book

Does this mean I also need to be more careful not to make typos?

Only if they resulted in you contradicting the thrust of your personal attacks, but then I know you wouldn't do that, old chap

Now don't be cheeky or I de-friend you

Only if they resulted in you contradicting the thrust of your personal attacks, but then I know you wouldn't do that, old chap

Who knew the lower case letter was such an argumentative little so and so.

The problem with Thaksin is Thaksin, if you looked in the dictionary for the word narcissus his photo would be there instead of a definition. he will be the down fall of his sisters government as they will spend all of there time and energy getting him home.

The PTP can't really be complaining about the use Democrats use of impeachment.

http://www.nationmul...cs_30097666.php

I don't think the PTP are complaining. They probably expected it - with good reason.

All of this impeachment talk will be as effective for the Dems as it was for the PTP - ie it is just an attempt to derail the working of the rival political group with no concern towards building support among the electorate.

For the PTP the futility of calling for impeachment may not have been such a setback given their existing support among voters, but for the Dems, they really need to do better than mirroring the behavior of the PTP whilst evidently needing to bring more hearts and minds to their side.

Does anyone know of any politician being successfully "Impeached"?

Democrats in government: forget the country talk about Thaksin 24/7

Democrats in opposition: forget the country talk about Thaksin 24/7

However there is progress, at least now there is a government that actually focus on problems, not making them...

There is? Hmmm which government is that? So far all we have seen is a whole lot of nothing and whole lot of trotting out reasons why they can't do this or that within the time frame they originally said they could. Talking about doing stuff that will not benefit the people that need it most then worse not doing as they never made sense in the first place is hardly progress...

Unless I missed a whole bunch of worthwhile projects that are greenlit and ready to go... I mean you're just repeating "election promises" and assuming they will actually happen are you??

ah, so he was convicted in his absence, but it was the dems that had been handed power at this point and allowed him to leave? Did he need permission to leave as he was not convicted of any crime at that point? I guess part of bail conditions was to surrender his passport so he did need permission.

Also did he report to the thai embassy in Hong Kong after his conviction regarding his divorce but was not arrested while at the embassy? I seem to recall this.

I think the truth of the matter is that the dems did not want him in Thailand, they have paid lip service to it, make the people think they are doing something, but at the end of the day they did nothing about it and are now trying to use it agaisnt the current government, who will bring him back anyway, but not as a convicted criminal

I think you need to go back and check when the Democrats came to power.

Wasn't it the dems that allowed Thaksin to leave the country in the first place after his conviction?

Please correct me if I am wrong on this

In August 2008 k. Thaksin got permission to go watch the Olympic Games and didn't come back. He skipped bail and fled to the U.K. His conviction was on the 21st of October 2008.

ah, so he was convicted in his absence, but it was the dems that had been handed power at this point and allowed him to leave? Did he need permission to leave as he was not convicted of any crime at that point? I guess part of bail conditions was to surrender his passport so he did need permission.

Also did he report to the thai embassy in Hong Kong after his conviction regarding his divorce but was not arrested while at the embassy? I seem to recall this.

I think the truth of the matter is that the dems did not want him in Thailand, they have paid lip service to it, make the people think they are doing something, but at the end of the day they did nothing about it and are now trying to use it agaisnt the current government, who will bring him back anyway, but not as a convicted criminal

You will recall that the Democrat-led coalition-government of former-PM Abhisit didn't come to power until December-2008, so it was Thaksin's bother-in-law former-PM Somchai, who "allowed him to leave", or rather the courts gave him permission & the PPP-led coalition-government were in-power at the time.

he will be the down fall of his sisters government as they will spend all of there time and energy getting him home.

All that time and energy seems even the sillier when one thinks that all he actually has to do to get home is jump on his private jet. Do it now and he could be back here by this afternoon. If only he didn't insist on the bit about not facing justice, how quickly and easily this mess would go away. Might even set in motion others being forced to have their day in court. A small sacrifice you would think. Two or three months in a comfy cell - perhaps even just house arrest. The other charges dropped. Thailand back to normality.

One can dream...

the problem here is the new government is dead set on bringing Thaksin back. Yingluck said she's not working on it, but her Thaksin appointed foreign minister is. The next mob will be even bigger and more aggressive if people get paid to get on a bus to Bangkok and know their families will get 10 mil if they die. Send all the boys and girls to Bangkok. Impeachment should not be out of the question, nor should the watchdog agency sit back for 6 months, ooops, change that to 1 year and just let the new government "prove" themselves. That would be too late in my opinion. :jap:

The PTP can't really be complaining about the use Democrats use of impeachment.

http://www.nationmul...cs_30097666.php

I don't think the PTP are complaining. They probably expected it - with good reason.

All of this impeachment talk will be as effective for the Dems as it was for the PTP - ie it is just an attempt to derail the working of the rival political group with no concern towards building support among the electorate.

For the PTP the futility of calling for impeachment may not have been such a setback given their existing support among voters, but for the Dems, they really need to do better than mirroring the behavior of the PTP whilst evidently needing to bring more hearts and minds to their side.

I don't think they're mirroring the PTP. They are following the tradition of opposition parties such as exist in the west. If these charges were brought in the west, and if true, at the very least it would bring about the resignation of the minister, if not further charges. If the PM was proven to be complicit tghe PM would be removed. It's always sad to see people here with such a low regard for thais that they feel they don't deserve good governance.

:lol: You a funny guy!!!! 'Thais' has a capital 'T'.

I think there is a verb missing!