Visa For Marriage Extension: Rule Changed?

[talatnat]

I went to Immigration today to apply for a one-year extension based on marriage to a Thai and having Thai children. The Immigration officer informed me that the rules had changed regarding withdrawal of any money from my bank account. Three months ago I had about 700,000 baht, which dropped for living expenses to around 540,000 baht yesterday when I went to get my bank statement. Two issues:

1. The Immigration officer says the original 700,000 baht should have been "frozen" for two months. But since I withdrew some money, the officer told me that I will have to "freeze" the 540,000 baht remaining for the next two months. She recommended that I get a 60-day extension visa, and to then re-apply for a one-year extension in two months. She said that if she sent the application as is, then it would be rejected in Bangkok, and that I would have to re-apply by going through the entire process from the beginning. Has anybody else had this experience?

2. My original visa is a Non-B. I first got a one-year retirement extension to this, and then changed it to one-year extensions based on marriage for the past seven years. The officer told me I can only use a Non-O for one-year extensions based on marriage. This Non-B was never an issue for the past seven years -- in fact the same officer processed my application last year (and also did not have a problem with my withdrawing funds from the account last year since the final amount when I applied for the extension was over 400,000 baht).

I would really appreciate any quick advice as to my best options since I have about a week left on my current visa. I have to go back tomorrow to Immigration (the officer wanted to discuss this with her boss later this afternoon) when they will inform me of their decision about these two points. I will also pass on to this thread what they tell me. The officer seemed genuinely helpful (she has seen me and my family a number of times for Re-Entry permits, etc.), so I am at somewhat taken aback about this turn of events.

Thanks,

Talatnat

[Lite Beer]

The rule clearly states 400,000 for a period of 2 months so I do not know what is going on here. Maybe someone not understanding the rule.

What do they expect you to do for 2 months? Starve?

(6) In case of marriage with a Thai lady, the husband who is an alien must have an average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit in a local Thai bank of not less than 400,000 baht for the past 2 months for expenses within a year.

[Mario2008]

Seems like she is confused about something, both regarding the money in the bank needed to be frozen as well as the extension based on marriage now only on a non-O. Have seen no reports or anouncements regarding this.

What you can do is contact the immigration hotline for the correct information: 1178. If need be they can contact your immirgation office. But see first what they decide this afternoon.

[Cuchulainn]

"The officer seemed genuinely helpful (she has seen me and my family a number of times for Re-Entry permits, etc.)"

She's obviously not new to the job and this seems quite alarming for all of us who extend an O based on marriage.

Basically, she's saying that the 2 months previous to your application for extension, you are not allowed to access your account at all, even if you're well over the B400k mark?

Please keep us informed. Also, what Immi office was this?

Thanx.

[talatnat]

Thanks for the replies. I guess it is a "shakedown" for doing "extra work" on the application. I'll let you all know when I find out more -- either this afternoon or tomorrow when I go there again.

[UmpaLumpa]

are you saying thay it is not possible anymore to get a 1 yr extension based on marriage if you have a non-b visa?

i have been extending my non-b visa for the last 6 yrs without any problem. is this a new rule??

[Lite Beer]

You are extending your permision to stay not your Visa, that died years ago.

[beano2274]

What office was this?

[RedBullHorn]

I'm doing exactly what the OP been doing all this years, that is to have enough to season for two months. I've more than the frozen amount and just withdraw monthly amount for expenses, just as long as the minimum 400K is there through out. With this piece of new, i might have to open another account just to tranfer the different out.

This is really not logical !!! What are the Top Brasses using as brain !?!!

[Semper]

I'm doing exactly what the OP been doing all this years, that is to have enough to season for two months. I've more than the frozen amount and just withdraw monthly amount for expenses, just as long as the minimum 400K is there through out. With this piece of new, i might have to open another account just to tranfer the different out.

This is really not logical !!! What are the Top Brasses using as brain !?!!

This is really not logical

Same with a number of rules/things, TIT.

[talatnat]

Quick Update: The wife just called the Immigration officer, and she said that her boss had "passed" my marriage extension application.

So, all in all, a false alarm on both fronts: 1) No, you don't need to freeze the money, 2) A Non-B visa is also good for a marriage-extension.

They were very careful to specify the time for us to come tomorrow afternoon ("when it is not busy"), so we may still want to "buy them dinner" for all the extra effort and care they took over our application.

I'll update again tomorrow, but for now all ye posters, thanks, and you can rest a little easier.

[Cuchulainn]

Thanks for the comforting update. Let's know the full update tomorrow and good luck!!

[longball53098]

Can you answer the question? What Immigration office are you using please?

[lopburi3]

I suspect he will answer where today when he updates but it was obviously a misunderstanding on the part of employee and has been corrected.

[TongueThaied]

I have had various snags such as this, but I KNOW the immigration law and carry the Thai and English translations with me every time I go in. If they ask for something not required, I politely point out that it is not required. There is a risk of causing an officer to lose face, so one must be careful, but I have stood by my guns and always obtained what I was after in accordance with the law and with NO extra fees. The whole key to these problems is to be prepared; have everything (including a copy of the law) -- and most of all, be polite, talk slowly and smile.

As a recent example, I went in for my marriage extension last week, presented all the required materials, including a picture of my house with family -- address showing. The purpose of the picture is to allow an investigator to easily identify your house when he goes out to see if you really live where you say you do. The officer noticed it was the same picture I used last year and said that I would need a new one. I would have provided a new one if I had one with me, but was not inclined to travel all the way home, take a picture then come back. Instead, I pulled out a copy of the law and informed her that there was no requirement for an updated picture. She shot back that "there shoould be." And I quietly replied, "But there isn't." That was the end of it. The issue just died and I got my extension. Next year I will provider her a new one just to make her happy.

If push comes to shove, I call the Bangkok office, get a hold of a high enough officer, then hand the phone to the clerk in my local office. This is only for the worst case scenarios as the officer WILL lose face and you have to come back next year.

Edited August 24, 2011 by TongueThaied

[Digitalbanana]

Can you answer the question? What Immigration office are you using please?

Whilst we wait for the o/p to answer that question, I can add that when I got an extension based on marriage at Cheang Wattana the imm officer lady "suggested" even though I was above the 400,000 THB limit by almost double "she would prefer" if I kept the 400,000THB in a frozen or fixed account as "it made her job easier" reading the bank book even though I had an accompanying bank guarantee letter stating the balance hadn't dropped below limit. My impression was our application / time waiting in queue for her to act was simply dependent on her mood swing that particular day. I have no plans to open a separate account just for this until now.

[talatnat]

Update: Okay, I returned from the Immigration Office this afternoon with mixed feelings.

As I posted earlier, the Immigration Officer was genuinely concerned. She greeted us with a lot of smiles, but kept us waiting 45 mins beyond the appointed time while she processed the "simpler" cases (90-day reporting, etc.) of people who came after us.

Finally: We (my wife and I) probed gently about how to do this next time: Should we "freeze" funds or not? Her side-tracking (but not curt) answer was: "Don't talk about how you did it before," leaving the unstated implication that freezing funds was better. A little later, another applicant for an extension came by, a businessman by the looks of him, and his bank passbook was ten or more pages of entries for two months, with what seemed like many foreign and local deposits and withdrawals. The officer looked at us knowingly and said "This is why another guy had problems."

As a previous poster had just pointed out, a busy Immigration officer would probably not want to pore through reams of somebody's financial statements to find what applied and what did not. (I probably passed because I had about five withdrawals over two months, spread over two pages.) So, it is not a rule, but more related to their work process -- try not to add to their workload. Also: The office was processing dozens of migrant Laos and Cambodian migrant workers, so they were really busy, and probably led to their insisting that we come in the afternoon when it was less busy.

The Non-B visa for a marriage extension is a non-issue. The officer just shrugged when I asked about it. I gather that it is far more common for people to apply for a Non-O when they want to do a marriage extension, and the officer wanted to make certain that we were doing it right.

In our case today, there was no attempt to "moan and groan" about extra work, nor was there any suggestion of a shakedown as I wrongly implied earlier. As we were leaving, we passed over an envelope and just said: Thanks for all the extra work, we'd like to buy you dinner. The officer seemed surprised at the gesture, and then very pleased... a big, big smile.

Having done that, it does not seem fair to now mention the name of the provincial immigration office: They actually did not do anything wrong, and maybe they do care and perhaps they should be commended.

Finally: Sorry, to raise a false alarm, but I was just seeking information and advice.

Thanks, all.

[moe666]

In the end all things worked out fine and it was good that the immigration officer had enough sense to back off and ask for more assistence. Over all I think they try to do good work but it cannot be an easy job dealing with many different rules , regulations and the many different folks needing help.

Similar case in the states my friend married a Philipino lady and their application process has been an on going pain. They submitted paper work to confirm her current status and where hit with a request for more paper work to prove they where married and living together. So folks it not just in Thailand where immigration can be a pain.

[poanoi]

@Toungethaied:

Would you mind uploading the LAW in both thai & english here ?

as well as usable phone nr ?

We saw immigration hotline nr: 1178

There should really be a pinned topic how to deal with obstinate/corrupt immigration officers

[Lite Beer]

Police Order 777/2551 English Police Order 2008.pdf

Police Order 777/2551 Thai RTP777_2551.pdf

They are both in the pinned section at the top of the page.

In this case the Officer backed down because she knew she was wrong.

[talatnat]

Quick Addition: This lady officer is the backbone of the office. She's the youngest of the lot there, but all the other officers came to her to ask how to do the simplest things. No wonder the work piled up on her desk -- no matter who accepted an application, it all landed on her desk finally. That's probably why she was so insistent on setting up a specific time for us -- her way of organizing her time and keeping the office running.

[trevorg]

Dear talatnat - You had us worried for a minute (as I assume you were at the time)! Thank you for following this up with the outcome that clarified the events! I wonder what will happen next year?

[TerryLH]

"This lady officer is the backbone of the office. She's the youngest of the lot there, but all the other officers came to her to ask how to do the simplest things."

Yet she had to ask how to do what should have been a routine extension.

Sounds like you gave her something extra for extra work she caused herself.

Glad it worked out for you and that it wasn't a change after all.

[tartempion]

As I posted earlier, the Immigration Officer was genuinely concerned. She greeted us with a lot of smiles, but kept us waiting 45 mins beyond the appointed time while she processed the "simpler" cases (90-day reporting, etc.) of people who came after us.

In our case today, there was no attempt to "moan and groan" about extra work, nor was there any suggestion of a shakedown as I wrongly implied earlier. As we were leaving, we passed over an envelope and just said: Thanks for all the extra work, we'd like to buy you dinner. The officer seemed surprised at the gesture, and then very pleased... a big, big smile.

Come on, get real.

Whatever immigration office that is, "incompetence" comes to my mind.

And you passed over an envelope.....shame on you!

[jpinx]

Feeding the culture of corruption will not kill it

I am sorry the OP had to resort to that

[RedBullHorn]

As I posted earlier, the Immigration Officer was genuinely concerned. She greeted us with a lot of smiles, but kept us waiting 45 mins beyond the appointed time while she processed the "simpler" cases (90-day reporting, etc.) of people who came after us.

In our case today, there was no attempt to "moan and groan" about extra work, nor was there any suggestion of a shakedown as I wrongly implied earlier. As we were leaving, we passed over an envelope and just said: Thanks for all the extra work, we'd like to buy you dinner. The officer seemed surprised at the gesture, and then very pleased... a big, big smile.

Come on, get real.

Whatever immigration office that is, "incompetence" comes to my mind.

And you passed over an envelope.....shame on you!

Feeding the culture of corruption will not kill it

I am sorry the OP had to resort to that

The definition of corruption is bribe before a completed task or matter.

In view of the OP's case, the reward is merely a token of appreciation after

the completion of matter.

Whether Incompetence or not, i don't see there's other ways of doing this,

be it hiring a lawyer, you still end up in front of them, the immigration office.

Edited August 27, 2011 by RedBullHorn

[trevorg]

As I posted earlier, the Immigration Officer was genuinely concerned. She greeted us with a lot of smiles, but kept us waiting 45 mins beyond the appointed time while she processed the "simpler" cases (90-day reporting, etc.) of people who came after us.

In our case today, there was no attempt to "moan and groan" about extra work, nor was there any suggestion of a shakedown as I wrongly implied earlier. As we were leaving, we passed over an envelope and just said: Thanks for all the extra work, we'd like to buy you dinner. The officer seemed surprised at the gesture, and then very pleased... a big, big smile.

Come on, get real.

Whatever immigration office that is, "incompetence" comes to my mind.

And you passed over an envelope.....shame on you!

Incompetence does not come to mind! But a local force! I have to agree, there's a 'middle' position Immigration officer (who has studied, almost certainly has a degree), and is clever but under pressure from her boss!

Feeding the culture of corruption will not kill it

I am sorry the OP had to resort to that

The definition of corruption is bribe before a completed task or matter.

In view of the OP's case, the reward is merely a token of appreciation after

the completion of matter.

Whether Incompetence or not, i don't see there's other ways of doing this,

be it hiring a lawyer, you still end up in front of them, the immigration office.

Tartempion, can you 100% say that you have never paid or taken a payment, gifts or expenses, or given a payment gift or expenses (including your time)! I can't!

[jaiyenyen]

I see nothing wrong in giving a 'tip' to someone who has performed a task for you.

The OP handing over an evelope after the job was done, was a nice gesture on his part.

No different than giving a bottle of whiskey or food hamper at Cristmas, to someone you do business with.

Glad everything turned out well in the end for you OP, but don't forget, she'll expect the same next year

[renaissanc]

I strongly recommend that foreigners assume year by year that the 400,000 Baht requirement will increase. You have noticed how the regulations are often being tightened up and changed, probably because of foreigners and criminals abusing the system. If you can, keep 600,000 Baht in an account, which you don't touch at all. One day, the 400,000 Baht amount will change. It's not a matter of "if", just "when", in my opinion. Probably the period for having this amount will be increased to at least 3 months.

[SabaiBKK]

"The officer seemed genuinely helpful (she has seen me and my family a number of times for Re-Entry permits, etc.)"

She's obviously not new to the job and this seems quite alarming for all of us who extend an O based on marriage.

Basically, she's saying that the 2 months previous to your application for extension, you are not allowed to access your account at all, even if you're well over the B400k mark?

Please keep us informed. Also, what Immi office was this?

Thanx.

personally i'm not on the 400 k system as I earn more than the mandatory 40k per month but it was always clear that the 400k should be on a special account used only for this .... we all know that its not safer to put all your eggs in the same basket , and more so in thailand.