Making A Noise That No One Hears Or Cares About

[hagler]

It fascinates me why people who will never have any right to vote or influence politics or even be considered on an equal footing with any Thai citizen should be so passionate about the national politics. What is the obsession? Nothing anyone who is not a citizen says will make the slightest of difference or even be cared about by the locals. Surely the energy and passion could be directed to something that is going to make a difference?

[Kilgore Trout]

I think you've summed up your case, in point

[StreetCowboy]

I get to vote with my feet, which is more influence than most Thais have

SC

EDIT: To avoid cultural misunderstanding, that means to choose whether one lives in a country or not; as so often said: If you don't like it, then leave.

Many governments treat investment and trade considerations more seriously than the well-being of their peasantry

[wintermute]

Most forums warriors have a bug up their ass about Thaksin because he threatened the expat beer bar nightlife with his crackdown. So most of the angst can be traced back to that. Most expats probably don't care though it's just something for some people to talk about while they sip a cold one at the stool with other self proclaimed "old hands" who want to pretend they are relevant.

[zzaa09]

I think you've summed up your case, in point

It's quite the fashion, these heated debates and opinions of Thai affairs from Farang [largely residents] pundits.

There are really only two Thai-related forums [TV being one] that extend deep and rabid discussions as they apply to Thai politics and whatnot. One shouldn't take it too seriously, considering the source.

There are a handful of quite learned and knowledgeable fellows that keep things lively with their insight towads Thai history, politics, and general diaspora. Yet, I'm afraid almost all discussions have little to do with Thai - as most chat and analysis in regards to Thailand will naturally have a heavy Western cultural-centric tone.....attached superlatives and comparatives.

[Semper]

It fascinates me why people who will never have any right to vote or influence politics or even be considered on an equal footing with any Thai citizen should be so passionate about the national politics. What is the obsession? Nothing anyone who is not a citizen says will make the slightest of difference or even be cared about by the locals. Surely the energy and passion could be directed to something that is going to make a difference?

[zzaa09]

Oriental despots and their backward populations.

What they need is a solid dose of blue-eyed foreign devils and a civilised manner.

White Man's Burden and other stuff.......

[scorecard]

Most forums warriors have a bug up their ass about Thaksin because he threatened the expat beer bar nightlife with his crackdown. So most of the angst can be traced back to that. Most expats probably don't care though it's just something for some people to talk about while they sip a cold one at the stool with other self proclaimed "old hands" who want to pretend they are relevant.

What! When did t threaten the expat beer bar nightlife?

Purachai (at one point deputy pm in thaksins reign) did try to clamp down on nightlife but it was not aimed specifically at farang, and didn't really get very far because he was banging his head against a brick wall of police ownership etc.

Further, suggest you do another analysis of the posts from the mostly non-Thai contributors to TVF. Many write posts with details of laws, links (not always easy to find) etc etc. Somehow I don't think this is your average girlie bar stool warmer.

You might like to also remember that plenty of foreigners living here have Thai wives (not bar girls) and children born here in Thailand. I have children and grand children born here, they are my life, I have great concerns for their future and I therefore reserve the right to comment.

[kerryk]

Most forums warriors have a bug up their ass about Thaksin because he threatened the expat beer bar nightlife with his crackdown. So most of the angst can be traced back to that. Most expats probably don't care though it's just something for some people to talk about while they sip a cold one at the stool with other self proclaimed "old hands" who want to pretend they are relevant.

What! When did t threaten the expat beer bar nightlife?

Purachai (at one point deputy pm in thaksins reign) did try to clamp down on nightlife but it was not aimed specifically at farang, and didn't really get very far because he was banging his head against a brick wall of police ownership etc.

Further, suggest you do another analysis of the posts from the mostly non-Thai contributors to TVF. Many write posts with details of laws, links (not always easy to find) etc etc. Somehow I don't think this is your average girlie bar stool warmer.

You might like to also remember that plenty of foreigners living here have Thai wives (not bar girls) and children born here in Thailand. I have children and grand children born here, they are my life, I have great concerns for their future and I therefore reserve the right to comment.

Major change in BKK as far as tolerance of nude dancing.

[kerryk]

I have no interest in Thai politics except as it effects me for Visa's and some monetary policies and I only pay attention to stay informed and certainly not to influence anyone. I don't drink so bar rules have nothing to do with me. I don't pick up pros so moral legislation does not bother me one way or the other.

I find the whole thing a fascinating morality play. What happens when the corrupt tyrant has popular support?

The liberals and socialists among us are put between a rock and a hard place. What do you when democracy elects a person who does not support democracy? I find the left wing dancing fascinating to watch. Seems as if they really get concerned about it.

Liberals and socialists and moralists are I guess more committed than myself. They pretend to really care about people. And of course they all find some tie in with old men, young women and deviant sex. Fun to watch.

[Semper]

Most forums warriors have a bug up their ass about Thaksin because he threatened the expat beer bar nightlife with his crackdown. So most of the angst can be traced back to that. Most expats probably don't care though it's just something for some people to talk about while they sip a cold one at the stool with other self proclaimed "old hands" who want to pretend they are relevant.

What! When did t threaten the expat beer bar nightlife?

Purachai (at one point deputy pm in thaksins reign) did try to clamp down on nightlife but it was not aimed specifically at farang, and didn't really get very far because he was banging his head against a brick wall of police ownership etc.

Further, suggest you do another analysis of the posts from the mostly non-Thai contributors to TVF. Many write posts with details of laws, links (not always easy to find) etc etc. Somehow I don't think this is your average girlie bar stool warmer.

You might like to also remember that plenty of foreigners living here have Thai wives (not bar girls) and children born here in Thailand. I have children and grand children born here, they are my life, I have great concerns for their future and I therefore reserve the right to comment.

and I therefore reserve the right to comment.

And so you did. BTW, I liked the "have Thai wives (no bar girls) part.

[zzaa09]

You might like to also remember that plenty of foreigners living here have Thai wives (not bar girls) and children born here in Thailand. I have children and grand children born here, they are my life, I have great concerns for their future and I therefore reserve the right to comment.

Indeed. A pointed conclusion that can't be avoided.

The related familial connections and relevant irons in the fire.

[Moonrakers]

The hypocrisy of politics made me lose interest a long time ago, I stopped getting involved in the petty squabbles some time ago.

Every now and then however something happens that threatens to have a direct impact on the lives of my family and I. When that happens, politics has my due attention.

[Dag]

Thai politics is extreme in its comedic value....why should we not enjoy it....

many of us have enjoyed Benny Hill in the past, Fawlty Towers, Yes PM, Paul Hogan, mr Methane etc....this is no different.

[Jingthing]

I think a big part of it for people who are INVESTED here (in so many ways) that despite the fact we can't ever vote, what happens here politically does impact our lives and people we care about. Then there is the very real fear of civil war, which would of course mean the end of expat life here most likely. So I think the passion you hear from expats, which you're right is mostly anti-Thaksin, is because of the extreme nature of Thai politics in recent times. I seriously doubt that expats in countries with orderly, fully developed systems (and without historically divisive figures like Thaksin) react the same way.

[kerryk]

The hypocrisy of politics made me lose interest a long time ago, I stopped getting involved in the petty squabbles some time ago.

Every now and then however something happens that threatens to have a direct impact on the lives of my family and I. When that happens, politics has my due attention.

That's the only reason I know about the administration and its crackdown on BKK dancers. I had to buy my wife a uniform. It was expensive too, A different colour every day.

[Moonrakers]

I wonder how many foreign national expat websites in Britain have heated debates about David Cameron and Ed Miliband.

[kerryk]

I think a big part of it for people who are INVESTED here (in so many ways) that despite the fact we can't ever vote, what happens here politically does impact our lives and people we care about. Then there is the very real fear of civil war, which would of course mean the end of expat life here most likely. So I think the passion you hear from expats, which you're right is mostly anti-Thaksin, is because of the extreme nature of Thai politics in recent times. I seriously doubt that expats in countries with orderly, fully developed systems (and without historically divisive figures like Thaksin) react the same way.

I didn't know Disneyworld had homes for expats.

[Jingthing]

I didn't know Disneyworld had homes for expats.

How many countries with lots of expats have been flirting with civil war?

[zzaa09]

I wonder how many foreign national expat websites in Britain have heated debates about David Cameron and Ed Miliband.

Yet, hasn't it been Western tradition to comment, opine, write about affairs across the seas?

[kerryk]

I didn't know Disneyworld had homes for expats.

How many countries with lots of expats have been flirting with civil war?

How many countries have orderly, fully developed systems (and without historically divisive figures like Thaksin.)

[Jingthing]

How many countries have orderly, fully developed systems (and without historically divisive figures like Thaksin.)

It's all relative. If you don't realize Thailand is a very politically unstable country right now and has been for years, that's fine. But my opinion is that you are very wrong.

[kerryk]

I wonder how many foreign national expat websites in Britain have heated debates about David Cameron and Ed Miliband.

Yet, hasn't it been Western tradition to comment, opine, write about affairs across the seas?

Few Americans have any idea that so many Brits and Aussies hate them. It is a shock when they start reading Thai Visa.

[zzaa09]

How many countries have orderly, fully developed systems?

Errrr......none?

Did I win something?

[kerryk]

How many countries have orderly, fully developed systems (and without historically divisive figures like Thaksin.)

It's all relative. If you don't realize Thailand is a very politically unstable country right now and has been for years, that's fine. But my opinion is that you are very wrong.

The same people have been in control of Thailand for 70 years. Few countries can say that. Your statement, " Very politically unstable country right now." was just as true in 1930,40,50,60,70,80,90 and 2000. Nothing happened yet. Trust history, Check the casualty figures in WW II, hardly a feather ruffled, comparatively speaking.

[kerryk]

How many countries have orderly, fully developed systems?

Errrr......none?

Did I win something?

Yes. you popped JT's balloon you should get something!

[Jingthing]

How many countries have orderly, fully developed systems?

Errrr......none?

Did I win something?

Yes. you popped JT's balloon you should get something!

Look, I already suggested that we agree to disagree. Now, you're getting annoying. This fantasy balloon is a construct you created that has nothing to do with what I think or feel. It's a wild distortion.

To me, debating with someone who seriously thinks Thailand has a normal political situation right now simply doesn't interest me. I get what you think, accept that you think; I think that should be enough.

[kerryk]

How many countries have orderly, fully developed systems?

Errrr......none?

Did I win something?

Yes. you popped JT's balloon you should get something!

Look, I already suggested that we agree to disagree. Now, you're getting annoying. This fantasy balloon is a construct you created that has nothing to do with what I think or feel. It's a wild distortion.

To me, debating with someone who seriously thinks Thailand has a normal political situation right now simply doesn't interest me. I get what you think, accept that you think; I think that should be enough.

I get what you are saying. Me, annoying? You don't have to personalize it. Perhaps history is annoying. Looking at history is annoying to people who disregard history.

I would like to point out I never said Thailand has a normal political situation (whatever that is).

Thailand has been on the brink of civil war for 80 years. I actually agree with you about that. I also agree with you that Thailand has a historically divisive figure, Thaksin. But Thailand has had historically divisive figures like Thaksin for 80 years.

Everything you said is correct except it is nothing new. It has been like that since 1930.

Debate is not necessary. I am right and I know it. You may not know it but there is no one demanding you respond. If it annoys you just keep quiet and don't reply. :jap:

That is what the thread is about. Debate by Farang is meaningless. Nothing changes.

I would like to suggest if Farang really want to debate an issue that they confine the debate to the content of the posts rather than bring in personal issues. Disagree with the words rather than the person. The only reason the political debates get stretched out so long is personal attacks.

I was at a meeting yesterday with a very large American oil company and a large Canadian oil company they were inspecting the manufacturing capability of a Korean manufacturing company based in Thailand pursuant to doing business with them in the coming years. The executives at the meeting were from Singapore and Thailand in addition to America and Canada and Korea. The subject of politics past or present never came up. These guys are investing millions of dollars in Thailand every year. They don't worry about politics because it is the same as it always has been.

I don't see and neither did these three companies see anything on the horizon to make them think the economic situation in Thailand is going to change.

I re wrote a favorite song of mine especially for this post. You can hear something like it every day like it on the news.

Fellow Thais, I am proudly standing here to humbly see.

I assure you, and I mean it- Now, who says I don't speak out as plain as day?

And, fellow Thais, I'm for progress and the flag- long may it fly.

I'm a poor boy, come to greatness. So, it follows that I cannot tell a lie.

Ooh I love to dance a little sidestep, now they see me now they don't-

I've come and gone and, ooh I love to sweep around the wide step,

cut a little swathe and lead the people on.

Now my good friends, it behooves me to be solemn and declare,

I'm for goodness and for profit and for living clean and chanting daily prayer.

And now, my good friends, you can sleep nights, I'll continue to stand tall.

You can trust me, for I promise, I shall keep a watchful eye upon ya'll...

Ooh I love to dance a little sidestep, now they see me now they don't-

I've come and gone and, ooh I love to sweep around the wide step,

cut a little swathe and lead the people on.

[NanLaew]

Most forums warriors have a bug up their ass about Thaksin because he threatened the expat beer bar nightlife with his crackdown. So most of the angst can be traced back to that. Most expats probably don't care though it's just something for some people to talk about while they sip a cold one at the stool with other self proclaimed "old hands" who want to pretend they are relevant.

What! When did t threaten the expat beer bar nightlife?

Purachai (at one point deputy pm in thaksins reign) did try to clamp down on nightlife but it was not aimed specifically at farang, and didn't really get very far because he was banging his head against a brick wall of police ownership etc.

Further, suggest you do another analysis of the posts from the mostly non-Thai contributors to TVF. Many write posts with details of laws, links (not always easy to find) etc etc. Somehow I don't think this is your average girlie bar stool warmer.

You might like to also remember that plenty of foreigners living here have Thai wives (not bar girls) and children born here in Thailand. I have children and grand children born here, they are my life, I have great concerns for their future and I therefore reserve the right to comment.

and I therefore reserve the right to comment.

And so you did. BTW, I liked the "have Thai wives (no bar girls) part.

Yes, I like it when a farang looks down his huge nose at another farang.

[JurgenG]

How many countries have orderly, fully developed systems (and without historically divisive figures like Thaksin.)

It's all relative. If you don't realize Thailand is a very politically unstable country right now and has been for years, that's fine. But my opinion is that you are very wrong.

The same people have been in control of Thailand for 70 years. Few countries can say that. Your statement, " Very politically unstable country right now." was just as true in 1930,40,50,60,70,80,90 and 2000. Nothing happened yet. Trust history, Check the casualty figures in WW II, hardly a feather ruffled, comparatively speaking.

I agree and disagree with you at the same time. Thaksin is different but in a way foreigners don't understand. What Thai people deeply, emotively opposed to Thaksin have against him has nothing to do with corruption, war on drug ....as you say these problems have been going on for ... probably as long as the Thai society (and all societies ) exists. Thaksin is actually accused of crime against Thainess, that he is going to destroy the fabric of the Thai society, that he is compromised with foreign nations, that he is against the Monarchy .... To create such an emotive response, it has to be much deeper than just corruption, most people of the anti-Thaksin brigade completely miss the point.

But anyway, my feeling is now it's over. After more than 5 years of continual trouble, people are tired. The election are widely considered as fair. A military coup is no more considered an option. Thai people are moving on with their life. So why a number of foreigners can't do the same ?

I can't resist posting the same you-tube video that I posted earlier

It's over, it's time to move on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-Sgvq98mjc