Frozen Uk State Pensions

[letitbe]

To put the whole system back in our favour, ie paying annual increases would cost the exchequer around £540 million. Money well spent I would say, just stop paying asylum seekers to sit around doing nowt ans send em back from whence they came, if they were clever enough to get them and their families to the UK with no resources they will know the way back.

They keep banding that figure about, they also say there are 500,000 pensioners living overseas, some of whom get the pension increases honoured. The pension increase is about six quid a week, £312, so I really don't know how they arrive at that figure.

The population of the UK is about 62.6m of which about 10m are over 65.

The quoted figure of £540 million would be to bring all pensioners into line, restore whats been withheld and hen it would be an extra £540 million a year to maintain it, sounds a lot but in govt parlance its not very much at all. The 2 new aircaft carriers are said to be costing £5 billion. I am all for keeping the forces up to strength but it gives you some comparison and I expect some of that £540 million will be clawed back in tax, so that is the headline figure.

<deleted> if thats true 5 billion on 2 new aircraft carriers when country is neck up in debt and having to cut cut cut. They probably are being built in Korea as well or Japan. Im a total lifelong anti socialist and left UK long long ago once it was clear with new labour what was going to happen. Also left long period in USA seeing way it was going there but its time UK stopped pretending it is anything more than a 2nd tier player Germans and Japanese dont need vast military nor does UK. 5 billion <deleted>. UK should cut its military to self defence only and totally stay out of iraq libya Afghanistan and rest. If rest of world dont want to do it then let them pay UK to do it for them if they want.

[nong38]

To put the whole system back in our favour, ie paying annual increases would cost the exchequer around £540 million. Money well spent I would say, just stop paying asylum seekers to sit around doing nowt ans send em back from whence they came, if they were clever enough to get them and their families to the UK with no resources they will know the way back.

They keep banding that figure about, they also say there are 500,000 pensioners living overseas, some of whom get the pension increases honoured. The pension increase is about six quid a week, £312, so I really don't know how they arrive at that figure.

The population of the UK is about 62.6m of which about 10m are over 65.

The quoted figure of £540 million would be to bring all pensioners into line, restore whats been withheld and hen it would be an extra £540 million a year to maintain it, sounds a lot but in govt parlance its not very much at all. The 2 new aircaft carriers are said to be costing £5 billion. I am all for keeping the forces up to strength but it gives you some comparison and I expect some of that £540 million will be clawed back in tax, so that is the headline figure.

<deleted> if thats true 5 billion on 2 new aircraft carriers when country is neck up in debt and having to cut cut cut. They probably are being built in Korea as well or Japan. Im a total lifelong anti socialist and left UK long long ago once it was clear with new labour what was going to happen. Also left long period in USA seeing way it was going there but its time UK stopped pretending it is anything more than a 2nd tier player Germans and Japanese dont need vast military nor does UK. 5 billion <deleted>. UK should cut its military to self defence only and totally stay out of iraq libya Afghanistan and rest. If rest of world dont want to do it then let them pay UK to do it for them if they want.

The contracts for the 2 new carriers was signed by the labour govt after years of thinking, the price went up and under the agreement it would cost more to cancel. They are being built in the UK. One will be mothballed straight away. I agree with you we should not get involved inplaces where we should not be. If we do at least give the forces the tools to do the job, which we dont, because we try and do it on the cheap. The cost of the carriers was only to give an idea where the govt costs go and to show how little it would cost the UK govt to give back te increases it has stolen. Britain used to be seen as always being fair and even handed, might still be true if you are not British.

[letitbe]

I've signed (even though I'm a long way off claiming my pension)...

Without reading through all of the legal junk (I'm lazy) , can anyone explain WHY people in Thailand are penalised when it comes to pension payments from the UK, with regards to other countries??

Why are Filipino/Canadian expats better off (or in a better position) than Thai expats...??

What are the 'rules' that were met for this to be put in place...?! I'm 'confuzzed' (sic)...

It all depends on whether there is a reciprocal tax agreement in place between the UK and individual countries, in the case of Thailand there is not!

yes their is contact your uk inland revenue and they will confirm a reciprocal tax agreement at least thats what they told my Thai wife when she asked under what conditions she could get UK tax allowance. amongst others they stated if she showed that she was a thai tax payer and provided Thai tax reference she is entitled to a UK tax allowance for her UK based income. Have not done so since it would open pandoras box on her Thai based income Our children get a UK tax allowance because they are also UK citizans as well as their other citizenships. My wife carefully explained she was not UK resident and not a UK citizen although she does hold a long term UK visa

My apologies, I should have written, "reciprocal social security agreement" and not just tax, there is of course a double taxation treaty already in place between the two countries.

thanks for correction but easy mistake especially given UK maze of rules and regulations. On subject of UK pensions when I was young about 45 years ago I decided all pensions were useless and given ive spent very few years contributing to UK NI have never bothered claiming Uk pension although I did receive a letter about 8 years ago asking why I had not drawn my UK gov pension. If I recall I would have been entitled to 12 pounds a week frozen at that time for ever. I wrote back saying use it to help pay national debt. Really unfair thing IMO is if you leave any money in UK for your widow who is not UK resident UK IR take 40% of it over free allowance of I believe 315,000 pounds. If you are not non resident and non domiciled they can take 40% of assets worldwide. I really resent that given huge amounts of tax ive paid in UK. Basically it is unfair to widows of UK citizens who happen to live abroad or are Thai for example and decide not ot live in UK. Easy to avoid of course you just become non resident and non domiciled and make sure you have no more than 300k gbp in UK or just transfer to your Thai wife if your one of few who trust their wives as I stupidly do or at least everyone has been telling me for over 15 years im stupid and shes not biding her time. She had better hurry up or ill be dead

[travelmann]

Cardholder does hve a point, maybe we should be fighting this on 2 fronts, the e petition and trying to get a reciprical agreement. How though would you go about getting a reciprical agreement? I would think the Thai Govt would think what in for us? There are a lot more UK folks here than Thais in the UK. I think they would think they would be bailing out the UK NHS and would cost them, right or wrongly I think that is how they would see it. It would not be in the interests of the UK Govt to do this, it will cost them, come to think of it why dont they cancel al reciprical agreements, save them some more money.

bet u any Thai walking into a Uk hospital would get seen to no questions asked....try it here??? Also they probably have some emergency funding available if you rolled up claiming you had nothing.

[travelmann]

Without reading through all of the legal junk (I'm lazy) , can anyone explain WHY people in Thailand are penalised when it comes to pension payments from the UK, with regards to other countries??

Why are Filipino/Canadian expats better off (or in a better position) than Thai expats...??

What are the 'rules' that were met for this to be put in place...?! I'm 'confuzzed' (sic)...

It all depends on whether there is a reciprocal tax agreement in place between the UK and individual countries, in the case of Thailand there is not!

yes their is contact your uk inland revenue and they will confirm a reciprocal tax agreement at least thats what they told my Thai wife when she asked under what conditions she could get UK tax allowance. amongst others they stated if she showed that she was a thai tax payer and provided Thai tax reference she is entitled to a UK tax allowance for her UK based income. Have not done so since it would open pandoras box on her Thai based income Our children get a UK tax allowance because they are also UK citizans as well as their other citizenships. My wife carefully explained she was not UK resident and not a UK citizen although she does hold a long term UK visa

My apologies, I should have written, "reciprocal social security agreement" and not just tax, there is of course a double taxation treaty already in place between the two countries.

thanks for correction but easy mistake especially given UK maze of rules and regulations. On subject of UK pensions when I was young about 45 years ago I decided all pensions were useless and given ive spent very few years contributing to UK NI have never bothered claiming Uk pension although I did receive a letter about 8 years ago asking why I had not drawn my UK gov pension. If I recall I would have been entitled to 12 pounds a week frozen at that time for ever. I wrote back saying use it to help pay national debt. Really unfair thing IMO is if you leave any money in UK for your widow who is not UK resident UK IR take 40% of it over free allowance of I believe 315,000 pounds. If you are not non resident and non domiciled they can take 40% of assets worldwide. I really resent that given huge amounts of tax ive paid in UK. Basically it is unfair to widows of UK citizens who happen to live abroad or are Thai for example and decide not ot live in UK. Easy to avoid of course you just become non resident and non domiciled and make sure you have no more than 300k gbp in UK or just transfer to your Thai wife if your one of few who trust their wives as I stupidly do or at least everyone has been telling me for over 15 years im stupid and shes not biding her time. She had better hurry up or ill be dead

Long game eh.....cunning fiendish, evil

[Kwasaki]

signed.

You still get a lot of benifits for your Thai wife even if the pension is frozen in most cases.

[letitbe]

signed.

You still get a lot of benifits for your Thai wife even if the pension is frozen in most cases.

??? what benefits if your Thai wife lives here. Im sure lots of people would love to know what their Thai wives could get ???? I reckon nothing but I heard someone say when you die she can claim 2,000 pounds death benefit but doubt that applies if your non resident non domiciled.

[theblether]

I also agree it is inequitable, but can see one vague reason for an excuse........that the pensions paid are not generally being circulated in the UK system to then have secondary, tertiary, and every other -tiary taxation gained from it for the govt's coffers. Still not equitable though.

I'm rather shocked today.

I was under the impression that if one returned to the UK (or the Phillipines i suppose) for a couple of months and started picking up pension there for a short while that the pension would revert upwards to the full rate and then on return to Thailand STAY AT THAT RATE until another trip back home. I vaguely had in mind that I might do this a couple of times during my retirement and stop it getting (inflation adjusted) too low. Surely if one's home it will change up and cannot then go back down?

Some may be interested in the rule of 72.

To find otu how many years to double your money with a certain amount of interest you divide that interest into 72.

Seems to me you can do the same vice versa with inflation for a halving of your real wealth.

So if inflation was 3% you would have 24 years for a halving of value.

If 5% it would be 14.4 years.

As I will be making back payments to get 13/30ths of my pension, about 40GBP per week, of about 6500GBP I figure it will take nearly 3.5 years to be ahead and start actually benefitting (forgetting the time value of the money). So I'll be 68.5yo getting a pension fixed at age 65 an the value will likely have eroded about 10%. Hmmmm.....

Would be most intersted in comments on my second paragraph important to all..........

There are another couple of points to take into account. The increase in pension payments is linked to inflation, the inflation referred to is obviously UK inflation.

If your not in the UK how can you be affected by UK inflation? Your not, and that is why your pension is fixed at the rate when you left.

The UK will raise your pension to the same rate as the other pensioners that live in the UK when you return. However if you return prematurely to Thailand the UK will freeze the pension because it's ................. linked to UK inflation and your ............. not living in the UK!!

Fairy Godmother UK is not stupid either ........... she knows that some people of evil and selfish intention will come home for a holiday, and hope that a side benefit of said holiday will be a substantial increase in their pension, which will pay for said holiday. I would love to get paid for going on holiday!!!

A good point you make about the increases linked to UK inflation and you are not living in the UK. Your argument falls flat when I mention the EU, USA, Phillipines and all those other places where the increases are still valid, these countries are not imune to the ravages of inflation. It comes down to the UK Govt paying youa a meagre pension which they will increase by the rate of inflation each year providing you stay in the UK ( and enjoy the taxes and benefits). If you go abroad we will freeze them unless you go to a country on our selcted list. Freedom is wonderful.

You seem to have missed out the entire second point I made, this campaign is going at it from the wrong direction. The campaign should be to get the Thai and British governments to sign a reciprocal agreement.

If the Filipino government can do it, then surely the Thai government can do it too???........................or shall we just ignore that massive pink elephant in the room??

[nong38]

There are far more Phillipionnos living and working in the UK than Thais. it is thus far easier to make a case for it. My guess is that Thai Govt would think, rightly or wrongly, whats in for us? There are lot of expats from the UK in Thailand whilst we have very few Thais in the UK, so it depends which way you look at it. From the Thai point of view, they would get the spend of pensioners but would have to take the cost of healthcare. The Uk point of view would be the same, almost, what if the Thais wanted to start importing families,not easy but that might be a fear. I cannot see the Thai Govt instigating a move, why would they? Whats in for them or Thailand and they have more important issues to deal with and the UK Govt? Just want to cut costs not increase them so they are not going make any suggestions, its such a pifling amount when they have bigger issues to deal with. No let sleeping dogs lie.

I would like to think it could happen but if you or I were to suggest to a Thai or Govt official I think we would get a funny look.

Edited September 18, 2011 by nong38

[smokie36]

This is simply wrong. Signed.

[chiang mai]

The following is an extract from here: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/international/social-security-agreements/ - they both explain what is contained in a reciprocal SSC agreement although you have to dig a bit, I've highlighted below what I think is the key point. Clearly, for the UK and Thailand to need to enter into such an agreement Thailand would need to have two things, a) a more robust and extensive social security system and a a larger percentage of its workforce employed in the UK:

"If you are going to live or work in another country in the European Economic Area (EEA), or a country which has a social security agreement with the United Kingdom (UK), you might be able to get

a UK benefit which you would not normally get abroad, or

a benefit which that country provides.

This is because you may be covered by the "European Community rules on social security", generally contained in EC Regulation 1408/71 (EC Regs), whilst in an EEA country or by the social security agreement which the UK may have with another country.

This section explains what you may be entitled to in each country in the EEA or in a country that has an agreement with the UK. Check the list of countries to see if the country you are going to or coming from is in the EEA or has a social security agreement with the UK.

If you are coming from one of these countries you might be able to get a benefit from that country or a benefit the UK provides.

The EC Regs and agreements mean that you will be treated in the same way as people living in the country to which you go in respect of the matters covered by the EC Regs or any agreement. It also means that when you move from one country to another you will be able to keep rights to some of the benefits that are based on the insurance you have paid.

These pages also tell you what medical services you may be able to get in the country you are moving to".

[nong38]

The following is an extract from here: http://www.dwp.gov.u...ity-agreements/ - they both explain what is contained in a reciprocal SSC agreement although you have to dig a bit, I've highlighted below what I think is the key point. Clearly, for the UK and Thailand to need to enter into such an agreement Thailand would need to have two things, a) a more robust and extensive social security system and a a larger percentage of its workforce employed in the UK:

"If you are going to live or work in another country in the European Economic Area (EEA), or a country which has a social security agreement with the United Kingdom (UK), you might be able to get

a UK benefit which you would not normally get abroad, or

a benefit which that country provides.

This is because you may be covered by the "European Community rules on social security", generally contained in EC Regulation 1408/71 (EC Regs), whilst in an EEA country or by the social security agreement which the UK may have with another country.

This section explains what you may be entitled to in each country in the EEA or in a country that has an agreement with the UK. Check the list of countries to see if the country you are going to or coming from is in the EEA or has a social security agreement with the UK.

If you are coming from one of these countries you might be able to get a benefit from that country or a benefit the UK provides.

The EC Regs and agreements mean that you will be treated in the same way as people living in the country to which you go in respect of the matters covered by the EC Regs or any agreement. It also means that when you move from one country to another you will be able to keep rights to some of the benefits that are based on the insurance you have paid.

These pages also tell you what medical services you may be able to get in the country you are moving to".

Thank you for that useful information, does not look to hopeful for Thailand. So keep getting your friends to sign the petition, its fairness is all that is required, give us back our pensions and dignity.

[David006]

I've signed (even though I'm a long way off claiming my pension)...

Without reading through all of the legal junk (I'm lazy) , can anyone explain WHY people in Thailand are penalised when it comes to pension payments from the UK, with regards to other countries??

Why are Filipino/Canadian expats better off (or in a better position) than Thai expats...??

What are the 'rules' that were met for this to be put in place...?! I'm 'confuzzed' (sic)...

It all depends on whether there is a reciprocal tax agreement in place between the UK and individual countries, in the case of Thailand there is not!

If that was the case then there would have been a petition to establish an agreement ..Yes?

My Mum in Canada pays taxes in Uk and Canada and has frozen pensions...

Think some shrewd lawyers or... could set up token residences in eligible countries....tried to tell my mum to give my sisters UK address as residence last time she was there ( the pension is automatically elevated to current levels while one is actually in UK)...but "no dear!.. that's not ethical and the "British" way although I have no idea why they penalize us ...after all your Dad fought for his country..tsk tsk mumble mumble!" ..lol

[cardholder]

Signed (in hope more than anything) and passed onto interested friends.

[theoldgit]

Signed (in hope more than anything) and passed onto interested friends.

I think that all the people behind this petition want us to do, thank you.

[theoldgit]

My Mum in Canada pays taxes in Uk and Canada and has frozen pensions...

Think some shrewd lawyers or... could set up token residences in eligible countries....tried to tell my mum to give my sisters UK address as residence last time she was there ( the pension is automatically elevated to current levels while one is actually in UK)...but "no dear!.. that's not ethical and the "British" way although I have no idea why they penalize us ...after all your Dad fought for his country..tsk tsk mumble mumble!" ..lol

I visited a very old dear friend in Canada a few years ago his pension was the equivilent of 2/6 a week, he also fought in WWII, sadly he is no longer with us, to his credit he was not bitter and twisted, though is wife was. The funny thing is that he lived in a little one horse town in Canada, his nearest decent town was in the US.

[prodriver]

signed.

You still get a lot of benifits for your Thai wife even if the pension is frozen in most cases.

??? what benefits if your Thai wife lives here. Im sure lots of people would love to know what their Thai wives could get ???? I reckon nothing but I heard someone say when you die she can claim 2,000 pounds death benefit but doubt that applies if your non resident non domiciled.

This has all been discussed before on various threads on this forum but to give a quick run down, these benefits that your Thai wife is entitled to are all based on your contributions.

She is entitled to a £2,000 one off bereavement payment on your death and if she is over the age of 45 when you die she is entitled to a bereavement allowance for up to 12 months. Also, when she reaches pensionable age she is entitled to a British State pension for the rest of her life all based on your contributions.

I have downloaded the relevant claim forms and filled in as much as I can for my wife for when that time comes. My wife has never worked or lived in the UK (only visited) but she will be allocated a National Insurance number to facilitate the bereavement payments. She has to send her birth certificate, marriage certificate and my death certificate with the application and these do not have to be translated into english as they have their own translators.

Hope this make it pretty clear :jap:

[letitbe]

signed.

You still get a lot of benifits for your Thai wife even if the pension is frozen in most cases.

??? what benefits if your Thai wife lives here. Im sure lots of people would love to know what their Thai wives could get ???? I reckon nothing but I heard someone say when you die she can claim 2,000 pounds death benefit but doubt that applies if your non resident non domiciled.

This has all been discussed before on various threads on this forum but to give a quick run down, these benefits that your Thai wife is entitled to are all based on your contributions.

She is entitled to a £2,000 one off bereavement payment on your death and if she is over the age of 45 when you die she is entitled to a bereavement allowance for up to 12 months. Also, when she reaches pensionable age she is entitled to a British State pension for the rest of her life all based on your contributions.

I have downloaded the relevant claim forms and filled in as much as I can for my wife for when that time comes. My wife has never worked or lived in the UK (only visited) but she will be allocated a National Insurance number to facilitate the bereavement payments. She has to send her birth certificate, marriage certificate and my death certificate with the application and these do not have to be translated into english as they have their own translators.

Hope this make it pretty clear :jap:

thanks for info. So my wife would get nothing since I contributed about 3-4 years if I recall all my life. But thats ok my choice. I do however resent a bit the many hundreds of thousands of pounds tax vie paid in UK or rather GCT tax corporation tax and rest and income tax on my companies dividends. I guess if I had not provided hopefully sufficient for my myself and may family and for when I demise I could have just been irresponsible gone to live in UK and get housed and countless benefits. I guess I still could.

[cardholder]

signed.

You still get a lot of benifits for your Thai wife even if the pension is frozen in most cases.

??? what benefits if your Thai wife lives here. Im sure lots of people would love to know what their Thai wives could get ???? I reckon nothing but I heard someone say when you die she can claim 2,000 pounds death benefit but doubt that applies if your non resident non domiciled.

This has all been discussed before on various threads on this forum but to give a quick run down, these benefits that your Thai wife is entitled to are all based on your contributions.

She is entitled to a £2,000 one off bereavement payment on your death and if she is over the age of 45 when you die she is entitled to a bereavement allowance for up to 12 months. Also, when she reaches pensionable age she is entitled to a British State pension for the rest of her life all based on your contributions.

I have downloaded the relevant claim forms and filled in as much as I can for my wife for when that time comes. My wife has never worked or lived in the UK (only visited) but she will be allocated a National Insurance number to facilitate the bereavement payments. She has to send her birth certificate, marriage certificate and my death certificate with the application and these do not have to be translated into english as they have their own translators.

Hope this make it pretty clear :jap:

I believe that I am right in saying that the deceased only needs to have made ONE National Insurance contribution for the widow/widower/civil partner to qualify for the bereavement payment.

[nong38]

Is it fair that Uk pensions are frozen whilst the Govt continues to pour money into other foreign countries ( most of whom dont have a reciprical agreement with the UK) whilst the country is in such a dour financial situation? Chairty begins at HOME, support your own people first and make sure you sign the e-petition and pass on the information to your netwrok of friends, one day they may be pensioners too!

[exeter]

How much is the overseas aid budget, that is what we are talking about here? Same as the amount quoted to bring all ex pat pensioners into line with home living variety? So if we dump the overseas aid budget, we could keep our own pensioners happy wherever they choose to live? Seems to a fair exchange to me at least I know its going toa good genuine cause and not a bunch of corrupt foreigners getting frre lunch at my expense.

Signed the e petition.

[oldsailor35]

I have dual nationality (Brit-Aust) but i live in Thailand. It appears that your petition does not apply to me ! My British pension was frozen when i left in 1973

[oldsailor35]

I also agree it is inequitable, but can see one vague reason for an excuse........that the pensions paid are not generally being circulated in the UK system to then have secondary, tertiary, and every other -tiary taxation gained from it for the govt's coffers. Still not equitable though.

I'm rather shocked today.

I was under the impression that if one returned to the UK (or the Phillipines i suppose) for a couple of months and started picking up pension there for a short while that the pension would revert upwards to the full rate and then on return to Thailand STAY AT THAT RATE until another trip back home. I vaguely had in mind that I might do this a couple of times during my retirement and stop it getting (inflation adjusted) too low. Surely if one's home it will change up and cannot then go back down?

Some may be interested in the rule of 72.

To find otu how many years to double your money with a certain amount of interest you divide that interest into 72.

Seems to me you can do the same vice versa with inflation for a halving of your real wealth.

So if inflation was 3% you would have 24 years for a halving of value.

If 5% it would be 14.4 years.

As I will be making back payments to get 13/30ths of my pension, about 40GBP per week, of about 6500GBP I figure it will take nearly 3.5 years to be ahead and start actually benefitting (forgetting the time value of the money). So I'll be 68.5yo getting a pension fixed at age 65 an the value will likely have eroded about 10%. Hmmmm.....

Would be most intersted in comments on my second paragraph important to all..........

There are another couple of points to take into account. The increase in pension payments is linked to inflation, the inflation referred to is obviously UK inflation.

If your not in the UK how can you be affected by UK inflation? Your not, and that is why your pension is fixed at the rate when you left.

The UK will raise your pension to the same rate as the other pensioners that live in the UK when you return. However if you return prematurely to Thailand the UK will freeze the pension because it's ................. linked to UK inflation and your ............. not living in the UK!!

Fairy Godmother UK is not stupid either ........... she knows that some people of evil and selfish intention will come home for a holiday, and hope that a side benefit of said holiday will be a substantial increase in their pension, which will pay for said holiday. I would love to get paid for going on holiday!!!

A good point you make about the increases linked to UK inflation and you are not living in the UK. Your argument falls flat when I mention the EU, USA, Phillipines and all those other places where the increases are still valid, these countries are not imune to the ravages of inflation. It comes down to the UK Govt paying youa a meagre pension which they will increase by the rate of inflation each year providing you stay in the UK ( and enjoy the taxes and benefits). If you go abroad we will freeze them unless you go to a country on our selcted list. Freedom is wonderful.

Even if the UK paid the pension increases, they would still not have to pay all the other benifits such as Heating, medical etc. just think how much they "rip" back by not having these expenses alone !

[oldsailor35]

I also agree it is inequitable, but can see one vague reason for an excuse........that the pensions paid are not generally being circulated in the UK system to then have secondary, tertiary, and every other -tiary taxation gained from it for the govt's coffers. Still not equitable though.

I'm rather shocked today.

I was under the impression that if one returned to the UK (or the Phillipines i suppose) for a couple of months and started picking up pension there for a short while that the pension would revert upwards to the full rate and then on return to Thailand STAY AT THAT RATE until another trip back home. I vaguely had in mind that I might do this a couple of times during my retirement and stop it getting (inflation adjusted) too low. Surely if one's home it will change up and cannot then go back down?

Some may be interested in the rule of 72.

To find otu how many years to double your money with a certain amount of interest you divide that interest into 72.

Seems to me you can do the same vice versa with inflation for a halving of your real wealth.

So if inflation was 3% you would have 24 years for a halving of value.

If 5% it would be 14.4 years.

As I will be making back payments to get 13/30ths of my pension, about 40GBP per week, of about 6500GBP I figure it will take nearly 3.5 years to be ahead and start actually benefitting (forgetting the time value of the money). So I'll be 68.5yo getting a pension fixed at age 65 an the value will likely have eroded about 10%. Hmmmm.....

Would be most intersted in comments on my second paragraph important to all..........

There are another couple of points to take into account. The increase in pension payments is linked to inflation, the inflation referred to is obviously UK inflation.

If your not in the UK how can you be affected by UK inflation? Your not, and that is why your pension is fixed at the rate when you left.

The UK will raise your pension to the same rate as the other pensioners that live in the UK when you return. However if you return prematurely to Thailand the UK will freeze the pension because it's ................. linked to UK inflation and your ............. not living in the UK!!

Fairy Godmother UK is not stupid either ........... she knows that some people of evil and selfish intention will come home for a holiday, and hope that a side benefit of said holiday will be a substantial increase in their pension, which will pay for said holiday. I would love to get paid for going on holiday!!!

When i was in the RN., we had a saying "I'm alright Jack".................guess that applies to you !

[F1fanatic]

signed.

You still get a lot of benifits for your Thai wife even if the pension is frozen in most cases.

??? what benefits if your Thai wife lives here. Im sure lots of people would love to know what their Thai wives could get ???? I reckon nothing but I heard someone say when you die she can claim 2,000 pounds death benefit but doubt that applies if your non resident non domiciled.

This has all been discussed before on various threads on this forum but to give a quick run down, these benefits that your Thai wife is entitled to are all based on your contributions.

She is entitled to a £2,000 one off bereavement payment on your death and if she is over the age of 45 when you die she is entitled to a bereavement allowance for up to 12 months. Also, when she reaches pensionable age she is entitled to a British State pension for the rest of her life all based on your contributions.

I have downloaded the relevant claim forms and filled in as much as I can for my wife for when that time comes. My wife has never worked or lived in the UK (only visited) but she will be allocated a National Insurance number to facilitate the bereavement payments. She has to send her birth certificate, marriage certificate and my death certificate with the application and these do not have to be translated into english as they have their own translators.

Hope this make it pretty clear :jap:

I believe that I am right in saying that the deceased only needs to have made ONE National Insurance contribution for the widow/widower/civil partner to qualify for the bereavement payment.

Thank god for that! Someone who has never even lived in the UK, far less paid any tax etc. - is able to receive money from the UK taxpayers....

I wonder why the Brits are so pissed off at the moment now they're in desperate financial trouble....

All is well though as long as ex-pats foreign wives can receive money from the UK.

[Nignoy]

I've signed (even though I'm a long way off claiming my pension)...

Without reading through all of the legal junk (I'm lazy) , can anyone explain WHY people in Thailand are penalised when it comes to pension payments from the UK, with regards to other countries??

Why are Filipino/Canadian expats better off (or in a better position) than Thai expats...??

What are the 'rules' that were met for this to be put in place...?! I'm 'confuzzed' (sic)...

It all depends on whether there is a reciprocal tax agreement in place between the UK and individual countries, in the case of Thailand there is not!

Sorry - in layman's terms, that means what exactly...? That we are paying tax in two countries and having to bite the bullet; or something else...

The following articles/extracts may help:

"If you are living abroad on a permanent basis you may be entitled to the annual increase to your State Pension rates if you live in an EEA country*, Switzerland, or a country that has a reciprocal social security agreement with the UK**.

If you live abroad in any other country you will not receive an annual increase.

* The EEA countries are Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Cyprus, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain and Sweden. The UK is also part of the EEA. UK means England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Gibraltar is treated as another EEA country by the UK. Other EEA countries treat Gibraltar as part of the UK.

** Countries with reciprocal agreements are Barbados, Bermuda, Israel (the agreement with Israel applies to the territory administered by the Government of Israel on 19 July 1956), Jamaica, Jersey and Guernsey, Isle of Man, Mauritius, Philippines, Turkey, USA and the separate republics of the former Yugoslavia that are not EU Member States (Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, Montenegro, the Republic of Macedonia and Serbia). Increases are also payable in Sark under the UK domestic legislation".

http://www.thisismon...r-equality.html

Of particular interest in that article is confirmation that UK pensioners resident in Thailand CAN receive the temporary uplift to the highest rate, when they return to the UK for holiday, as shown below. I post this aspect here now in response to the poster some months ago who suggested such a thing was rubbish.

"Bizarrely, when these people return to the UK or if they travel to a country that gets up-rated, they temporarily receive a higher pension over this period of time, if they notify the UK pension authorities. So a UK pensioner living in Canada and going on holiday to Jamaica for two weeks, can get a higher pension for that fortnight".

we travelled from Aus to UK and europe for 13 weeks between may and july,we applied for higher rate of pension on arrival , and because of no official reply ,we applied again 4 weeks later, a waste of time ,energy and postage,the reply was and I quote "no apparent raise to pension rates required, both applicants could not supply a permanent residential address in the United Kingdom or germany, application denied unquote"

[theoldgit]

Is it fair that Uk pensions are frozen whilst the Govt continues to pour money into other foreign countries ( most of whom dont have a reciprical agreement with the UK) whilst the country is in such a dour financial situation? Chairty begins at HOME, support your own people first and make sure you sign the e-petition and pass on the information to your netwrok of friends, one day they may be pensioners too!

I seem to recall the the total overseas aid budget is in the region of 1.5 billion GBP, that includes the cost of the department administering it, I have no problem with overseas aid, but when you consider that India is by far the biggest beneficiary wiith about 250m GBP's per year, it really doesn't seem fair.

[F1fanatic]

Is it fair that Uk pensions are frozen whilst the Govt continues to pour money into other foreign countries ( most of whom dont have a reciprical agreement with the UK) whilst the country is in such a dour financial situation? Chairty begins at HOME, support your own people first and make sure you sign the e-petition and pass on the information to your netwrok of friends, one day they may be pensioners too!

I seem to recall the the total overseas aid budget is in the region of 1.5 billion GBP, that includes the cost of the department administering it, I have no problem with overseas aid, but when you consider that India is by far the biggest beneficiary wiith about 250m GBP's per year, it really doesn't seem fair.

Couldn't agree more. The whole system of UK tax and expenditure needs to be overhauled.

NOBODY who hasn't contributed should get a penny and overseas aid should be zero as long as Brit residents are in need.

[exeter]

Is it fair that Uk pensions are frozen whilst the Govt continues to pour money into other foreign countries ( most of whom dont have a reciprical agreement with the UK) whilst the country is in such a dour financial situation? Chairty begins at HOME, support your own people first and make sure you sign the e-petition and pass on the information to your netwrok of friends, one day they may be pensioners too!

I seem to recall the the total overseas aid budget is in the region of 1.5 billion GBP, that includes the cost of the department administering it, I have no problem with overseas aid, but when you consider that India is by far the biggest beneficiary wiith about 250m GBP's per year, it really doesn't seem fair.

Couldn't agree more. The whole system of UK tax and expenditure needs to be overhauled.

NOBODY who hasn't contributed should get a penny and overseas aid should be zero as long as Brit residents are in need.

But what would happen to all the asylum seekers who have now come to live in the UK for nothing? We cant ask them to go home, can we, what we want for them is a new Australia, then costs would plummet, what about South Georgia?

[F1fanatic]

Is it fair that Uk pensions are frozen whilst the Govt continues to pour money into other foreign countries ( most of whom dont have a reciprical agreement with the UK) whilst the country is in such a dour financial situation? Chairty begins at HOME, support your own people first and make sure you sign the e-petition and pass on the information to your netwrok of friends, one day they may be pensioners too!

I seem to recall the the total overseas aid budget is in the region of 1.5 billion GBP, that includes the cost of the department administering it, I have no problem with overseas aid, but when you consider that India is by far the biggest beneficiary wiith about 250m GBP's per year, it really doesn't seem fair.

Couldn't agree more. The whole system of UK tax and expenditure needs to be overhauled.

NOBODY who hasn't contributed should get a penny and overseas aid should be zero as long as Brit residents are in need.

But what would happen to all the asylum seekers who have now come to live in the UK for nothing? We cant ask them to go home, can we, what we want for them is a new Australia, then costs would plummet, what about South Georgia?

I agree. But all those 'asylum seekers' are no worse than foreign wives expecting to receive money from the poor UK taxpayer.