Thai Govt May Have To Renege On Controversial Populist Schemes

[zzaa09]

Will ever people learn you can never trust politicians andwhat they promise. It most likely will be changed after they get the job.

Always remember it is ti too good to be true IT IS

Correct. Even better is to understand that there is truly no difference towards said political identities and philiosophies - anywhere.

The bottom line: they all act as one and the same, yet promote themselves as being different from the next.

[DLock]

I can't explain the joy at watching PTP drowning and the supporters squirming.

Being drunk and stupid is no excuse for the unrealistic policies that Yingluck Thaksin came up with.

Now we can look forward to year after year of excuses and diversions as well as that fateful day when that private plane touches down and the sheep will baa in unison that the prodigal Son has returned. The will wave flags and celebrate. It will be declared a national holiday. It will be called "Convicted Felon Amnesty Day". And they will forget what was promised by...by...whats her name...and all will be good in the land.

[chaoyang]

I see it 'shoot the messenger' season. Lots of people who have suggested that openness, freedom of speech, etc., etc. will increase now that we have a duly elected government. What happens? Woe and damnation on them who dare to critizise. Time to lay another wreath in front of Government House

Incredible. Some people point out the "reporting" is clearly biased by the Nation, so they are accused of "shooting the messenger".

I love the maudlin statement about "wreath in front of Government House" after a duly elected government takes power following an illegal military coup.

And a good thing the building isn't called "Democracy House" because Thailand has almost never, ever had one -- instead a string of army dictators and other dark machinations. So don't cry too many tears over the loss of a dear old institution that never really existed in the first place.

[OzMick]

This "news" is from The Drivel, what else could you expect them to write - "Yingluck Government Policies Move Ahead - Happy Days are Here Again" ???

That's all you've got? Attack the source? That's weak.

My reply is to the many people who comment as if this is a serious piece of journalism.

The "source" here is full of hot air, it's just popping the balloon.

The Nation is an actor on the scene, not a news source, and as such they are just as open to exposure regarding their actions (in their case, alleged "reporting") as any other player on the scene - political, activist, protester, businessman, corporation, etc.

In this case, this piece is one of many open strikes at the yet-to-be-implemented policies of the current gov't. The Nation is a tool, used like any other weapon, within the political sphere. There are other obvious examples of this in the media.

For those of us interested in reality, it is more interesting to understand the real issues related to these policies and the current facts regarding their implementation.

Instead of sniping at the messenger, could you please tell us which parts of the message that you disagree with? Your input on the post rather than the poster would be welcome.

[rakman]

I wonder how the promise to make all thais" rich within 6 months" is coming along

My thought also.

No one defined "rich".. It's nebulous like "Hope and Change" without defining what hope and change to what?

[rubl]

I see it 'shoot the messenger' season. Lots of people who have suggested that openness, freedom of speech, etc., etc. will increase now that we have a duly elected government. What happens? Woe and damnation on them who dare to critizise. Time to lay another wreath in front of Government House

Incredible. Some people point out the "reporting" is clearly biased by the Nation, so they are accused of "shooting the messenger".

I love the maudlin statement about "wreath in front of Government House" after a duly elected government takes power following an illegal military coup.

...end removed

Some posters keep on hammering on 'Nation biased'. That suggests that those posters a.) don't agree with what's written, b.) question why unfairly it's written like that, c.) suggest that the item is incorrect and d.) indirectly question how come they are allowed to write like that.

Freedom of speech, but only when it is in a form we agree with. A wreath with ribbon "least we forget our departed friend 'open speech'"

[473geo]

'The nation' should continue, along with all the Tvisa bandwagon jumpers........you are all doing the government a great service.......lowering the level of expectation in grand style......buying the government time.......and in around 3 years or so the government should be in a position to consolidate some of the promises.....probably not all......but maybe just enough......

[KarenBravo]

The Nation gets it wrong again.

The highest daily minimum wage is in Phuket, not Bangkok.

Phuket is 221 Bt per day, Bangkok is 215 Bt.

[OzMick]

I see it 'shoot the messenger' season. Lots of people who have suggested that openness, freedom of speech, etc., etc. will increase now that we have a duly elected government. What happens? Woe and damnation on them who dare to critizise. Time to lay another wreath in front of Government House

Incredible. Some people point out the "reporting" is clearly biased by the Nation, so they are accused of "shooting the messenger".

I love the maudlin statement about "wreath in front of Government House" after a duly elected government takes power following an illegal military coup.

And a good thing the building isn't called "Democracy House" because Thailand has almost never, ever had one -- instead a string of army dictators and other dark machinations. So don't cry too many tears over the loss of a dear old institution that never really existed in the first place.

Shouldn't that be 4 duly elected governments?

[Pib]

Will the PTP have to give back X amount of votes for X amount of promises not delivered on?

[janverbeem]

Why should they deliver on their promises,they're voted in already.Isn't that business as usual in this country.

[YellowFeverCAD]

This "news" is from The Drivel, what else could you expect them to write - "Yingluck Government Policies Move Ahead - Happy Days are Here Again" ???

That's all you've got? Attack the source? That's weak.

That is all he EVER has, weak indeed.

[moe666]

I wonder what it will take for a few of the red supporters to realize their duly elected government is rotten to the core. A complete sell out to Hun Sin, caught on tape taking millions in bribes, as going back on vote getting promises seems to be ok, intimidateing reporters is ok, dealing with banned politicians is ok and getting a visa for a convicted felon is ok.

[cdnvic]

A couple inflammatory posts were removed. Please discuss the issues and stop sniping at each other.

[Pi Sek]

Well, that will certainly be defended by all the voters and PTP = UDD lovers !

How could they believe all the lies that Yingluck and Co. have told during the campaign?

Serve them right!

This "news" is from The Drivel, what else could you expect them to write - "Yingluck Government Policies Move Ahead - Happy Days are Here Again" ???

I hope it was posted in the editorial section... there isn't hardly any news in the piece.

But they do give plenty of print space for business interests to repeat how bad the populist policies will be if implemented.

I don't normally respond to your posts as for some reason you seem to offer unconditional support to this government (sorry, that's my opinion based on your posts, but I accept that my opinion may be wrong). However, I find this post to be quite frankly astounding.

I think we all know that The Nation has an anti-Thaksin slant (although they do have some writers that are pro-Thaksin, I suppose to pretend that they are neutral). However, I can't see anything in this article that is out of place, and there is no editorial opinion anywhere in the article!

Regardless of the justices and injustices recorded in recent Thai history, this government looks to be having problems carrying out the majority of its pre-election promises. The article is merely pointing that out.

Whilst I respect everyone's right to have an opinion, I think that unconditional and unqualified support for anything is counter-productive.

[chaoyang]

Some posters keep on hammering on 'Nation biased'. That suggests that those posters a.) don't agree with what's written, b.) question why unfairly it's written like that, c.) suggest that the item is incorrect and d.) indirectly question how come they are allowed to write like that.

Freedom of speech, but only when it is in a form we agree with. A wreath with ribbon "least we forget our departed friend 'open speech'"

I for one am not saying the Nation should be muzzled in any way. They can print what they deem appropriate and the consumer can decide to take it for what its worth -- which is exactly what's happening in this very discussion.

There are some of us who think the coverage is biased and does not meet standards for truth and balance. Clearly they have an anti-Thaksin obsession. They, like so many of the yellow-shirted establishment in BKK, are obviously rattled by the guy, and I think that's a good thing -- they are in need of a good shakeup.

So they can print their biased material and we can put it to the test of fairness.

The issue isn't just what specifics can be proven clearly wrong in their stories, but who they quote and interview -- usually anti-Thaksin "experts". There are other academics and "experts" that could be found to support the policies of the new government to add some balance. Indeed some of the new ideas might be good, but you won't find that possibility expressed in the Nation.

As well, the overall professional quality of the writing and editing can be appalling, so at the end of the day we ask why this so-called newspaper is given any more credence than the blog of a high school student or what the local fish monger's wife has to say.

[tominbkk]

Instead of sniping at the messenger, could you please tell us which parts of the message that you disagree with? Your input on the post rather than the poster would be welcome.

You'll be seeing this tactic used more and more often. Just wait a few more weeks when Tahksin is back....the spin from the pro PTP Thai visa folks will be so bad you'll need some dramamine just to get through a thread!

[MaiChai]

Thailand further drops into the abyss. Is there any hope that things will get better? The country is surely damned. Sigh.

[Mosha]

It's like reading Orwell's 1984, and every day the joke punch line "Yesterday we were campaining, today you voted" Is proven, it's a good job there are photo's of those posters from the "election". They might start to deny they existed.

[waza]

Wake up and smell the grass................These promises were never meant to be implemented, they were just a means to get elected. Of course there will be a backlash from there axing, but they are Yingluck,s promises and she will take the heat and resign. Leaving the door open for a freshly legitamised Thaskin to waltz in to save the day, saying, Please forgive my sisters inexperience, I will fix things.

Edited September 18, 2011 by waza

[whybother]

I see it 'shoot the messenger' season. Lots of people who have suggested that openness, freedom of speech, etc., etc. will increase now that we have a duly elected government. What happens? Woe and damnation on them who dare to critizise. Time to lay another wreath in front of Government House

Incredible. Some people point out the "reporting" is clearly biased by the Nation, so they are accused of "shooting the messenger".

I love the maudlin statement about "wreath in front of Government House" after a duly elected government takes power following an illegal military coup.

And a good thing the building isn't called "Democracy House" because Thailand has almost never, ever had one -- instead a string of army dictators and other dark machinations. So don't cry too many tears over the loss of a dear old institution that never really existed in the first place.

And you're complaining about 'The Nation' being biased. At least they are talking about facts ... which people complaining about the OP don't actually want to talk about.

You're biased and making things up. The coup was in 2006. There have been 2 elections since then.

[whybother]

Some posters keep on hammering on 'Nation biased'. That suggests that those posters a.) don't agree with what's written, b.) question why unfairly it's written like that, c.) suggest that the item is incorrect and d.) indirectly question how come they are allowed to write like that.

Freedom of speech, but only when it is in a form we agree with. A wreath with ribbon "least we forget our departed friend 'open speech'"

I for one am not saying the Nation should be muzzled in any way. They can print what they deem appropriate and the consumer can decide to take it for what its worth -- which is exactly what's happening in this very discussion.

There are some of us who think the coverage is biased and does not meet standards for truth and balance. Clearly they have an anti-Thaksin obsession. They, like so many of the yellow-shirted establishment in BKK, are obviously rattled by the guy, and I think that's a good thing -- they are in need of a good shakeup.

So they can print their biased material and we can put it to the test of fairness.

The issue isn't just what specifics can be proven clearly wrong in their stories, but who they quote and interview -- usually anti-Thaksin "experts". There are other academics and "experts" that could be found to support the policies of the new government to add some balance. Indeed some of the new ideas might be good, but you won't find that possibility expressed in the Nation.

As well, the overall professional quality of the writing and editing can be appalling, so at the end of the day we ask why this so-called newspaper is given any more credence than the blog of a high school student or what the local fish monger's wife has to say.

How about talking about what is wrong with the article. Just pick one point that is wrong, and tell us why it's wrong. If you can't do that, how about pointing out something that is biased, and tell us why you think it's biased.

If you can't do that, then there can't be much wrong with it, can there?

[tlansford]

Well, that will certainly be defended by all the voters and PTP = UDD lovers !

How could they believe all the lies that Yingluck and Co. have told during the campaign?

Serve them right!

This "news" is from The Drivel, what else could you expect them to write - "Yingluck Government Policies Move Ahead - Happy Days are Here Again" ???

I hope it was posted in the editorial section... there isn't hardly any news in the piece.

But they do give plenty of print space for business interests to repeat how bad the populist policies will be if implemented.

I don't normally respond to your posts as for some reason you seem to offer unconditional support to this government (sorry, that's my opinion based on your posts, but I accept that my opinion may be wrong). However, I find this post to be quite frankly astounding.

I think we all know that The Nation has an anti-Thaksin slant (although they do have some writers that are pro-Thaksin, I suppose to pretend that they are neutral). However, I can't see anything in this article that is out of place, and there is no editorial opinion anywhere in the article!

Regardless of the justices and injustices recorded in recent Thai history, this government looks to be having problems carrying out the majority of its pre-election promises. The article is merely pointing that out.

Whilst I respect everyone's right to have an opinion, I think that unconditional and unqualified support for anything is counter-productive.

Hi Pi Sek - what a nice and reasonable way to disagree.

I understand how you might feel that I have unconditional support for this gov't, but no, that is not the case. IMO, in fact, it would be impossible to have unconditional support for this government, as they have not yet had time to do anything. They were elected only 2 1/2 months ago. In the USA, they wouldn't even be in the White House yet. Public policies take time to be implemented, and more time before you can measure the results. So my position regarding this gov't is "let's see".

But since - let's say - significantly more than 50% of the active posters are clearly against the PTP, the UDD, and anything remotely related to Thaskin, anyone to the left of these posters does seem very far to the left. Additionally, it is true, that the way in which the Democrats came to power, and their record while in office do not convince me of their self-proclaimed credentials on topics like democracy or human rights, ... but that is a different discussion.

In response to this poster's ("Who Me ?") statement that the PTP "lied" - a typical mantra from many here, and one of the more tame and civil abuses hurled around on TVF - I simply made the point that an OP from The Drivel is unlikely to say otherwise.

I use the slightly pejorative term The Drivel on purpose to underscore that although The Nation has the trappings of a news source, the purpose of the publication is clearly not journalism, to report on events, to report on that which took place. Even in their attempted news stories (here it is an OP), there is a clear bias in their selection of experts for news sources as Chaoyang pointed out. This is typical around the world and happens in the USA all the time. The Nation is a communication tool (ie: propaganda mouthpiece) for a conservative segment of the Thai socio-political scene. As such, The Nation is used by actors on the scene to attack their political enemies.

To address the freedom of speech issues raised by others here in this thread, as a media outlet, of course it benefits from the laws protecting its expression, such as those laws are in Thailand. However, one should not mistake "media outlet" for "journalism" and "reporting".

What about this article you asked? The bias / attack begins in the headline. I won't pick it apart for you, but notice several things:

1) all of the accusations are couched in the conditional. This is a useful rhetorical tool.

2) the word-choices - and consider for yourself if the words are positive, neutral, or negative terms for that being described.

3) there are very few real facts in this piece, given that it is an OP, that's excusable as The Nation may have factually reported on the issue elsewhere, but then,

4) there are no recommendations from the editor, either (only the suggestion from lenders is repeated here). So The Nations' "opinion" is that the gov't is "bad". Not that the gov't is bad and they should do this, and this... The Nation is just spreading FUD, not proposing any useful alternatives. This gives them away.

The Nation simply points out that all these "controversial populist schemes" (controversial to The Nation and its supporters, ... a "scheme" here refers to a policy, if one were to use a correct term.) - that these policies will (probably) not be implemented, and therefore, the PTP and the current gov't really did lie to you just to get elected - something many of our TVF friends have picked up on. (very astute!)

This particular OP is part of the regular drum-beat that this gov't will fail, is crooked, deceitful, unfair, etc, etc, etc... It's rather harmless all alone, but this is consistent at The Nation day after day after day.

This same kind of media tool exists elsewhere.

In the USA there are Fox News and The Wall Street Journal OP-Ed page. Both are rabidly conservative, and clearly biased. Only in the case of the WSJ can one say that the OP-Ed tends to stay on the Op-Ed page, but none the less, the WSJ Op-Ed page is well-known in American as one of the most right-wing, extreme, conservative mouthpieces in the country. Fox News, on the other hand, allows their political agenda to cross-over into all aspects of their programming.

Well, thanks again for your comment. I appreciate that.

I am certain that many here will continue to read The Nation as if it were a real journalistic news source, and every now and then there is some real information here, but unfortunately, most of the time it is just a media tool on a mission.

Edited September 18, 2011 by tlansford

[tlansford]

My reply is to the many people who comment as if this is a serious piece of journalism.

The "source" here is full of hot air, it's just popping the balloon.

The Nation is an actor on the scene, not a news source, and as such they are just as open to exposure regarding their actions (in their case, alleged "reporting") as any other player on the scene - political, activist, protester, businessman, corporation, etc.

In this case, this piece is one of many open strikes at the yet-to-be-implemented policies of the current gov't. The Nation is a tool, used like any other weapon, within the political sphere. There are other obvious examples of this in the media.

For those of us interested in reality, it is more interesting to understand the real issues related to these policies and the current facts regarding their implementation.

I agree. The Nation has clearly given up any claim to actual objective reporting with its constant anti-Thaksin drumbeat. The Yoons (publishers) are very much a part of the BKK elite so threatened by the upstart Thaksin, though in their case they are more the wanna-be variety. I had the pleasure of working at the Nation and at that time it was simply a sweatshop for burned-out older Westerners, young guys on an adventure (like me) and perhaps a little better-qualified Indians who found the field too overcrowded in their home country. They work cheap, but Indian English has its quirks...

Down through the years, anyone with a real real publishing background scratched their head and wondered how the Nation stayed in business given its small print run, low advertising content and Tinglish stories. I would think they have some bigtime backers, and obviously they're not from the Thaksin clan.

The paper has repeatedly declared the new programs a failure, or doomed to failure, before they've even begun, I would think those kind of declarations will be about a year down the road if they are deserved.

At least there are some NEW ideas. Abhisit smiled and wai-ed -- oh, so civilized -- but it was just business as usual for the old feudal system.

Wow, you worked at The Nation. Amazing Thailand!

Always a pleasure to have posters sharing first-hand experiences.

Others have complained that I am "shooting the messenger", but as The Nation is a tool in the hands of some of the players in the game, there is no "messenger" here to shoot, however, that does make it a fair target.

[rubl]

begin removed

...

I am certain that many here will continue to read The Nation as if it were a real journalistic news source, and every now and then there is some real information here, but unfortunately, most of the time it is just a media tool on a mission.

Can you tell me which newspapers here in Thailand you would consider a 'real journalistic news source' ? English or Thai language papers will do.

[Buchholz]

Where is my new car, tablet computer, 300 bhat a day and I want to be rich by Christmas, like you promised MRS?

You've gone very quiet, well can I have my vote back?

The 300 baht program is threatened today by news of the employers portion of tripartite National Wage Committee threatening to walk out of negotiations if the workers and the government portions collude in ramrodding through Yingluck's promise to increase to the daily minimum wage to 300 baht.

.

.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Buchholz

[chaoyang]

The 300 baht program is threatened today by news of the employers portion of tripartite National Wage Committee threatening to walk out of negotiations if the workers and the government portions collude in ramrodding through Yingluck's promise to increase to the daily minimum wage to 300 baht.

Would anyone expect any different?

It's like Obama swept into power under the mandate of Change. Though the majority of the people want government required health care, vested interests have been working feverishly to cut his programs to ribbons, while on his watch the whole Wall Street system of institutionalized fraud finally imploded. Packaging risky loans into investment products -- so-called derivatives -- and selling them as safe is nothing short of fraud that damaged economies throughout the world.

Yet these same interests -- the Tea Party types -- want business "as usual" and are acting against the will of the majority.

Change is hard there, and it will be in Thailand too, but I think there's no stopping it now.

[YellowFeverCAD]

Change is hard there, and it will be in Thailand too, but I think there's no stopping it now.

I truly weep for you if you honestly believe there will ever be change in Thailand that will actually benefit the people that need.. the only change that happens here is which group of Elite get their turn at the trough.

None are so blind as those that refuse to see... or something like that.