Thailand Still At Risk Of Another Coup: Chaturon

[webfact]

Banned Politician: Thailand Still at Risk of Another Coup

A banned politician from the now-defunct Thai Rak Thai Party says another military coup could happen at anytime, as there is still an unknown influence in control of the military.

Chaturon Chaisang, one of the 111 banned Thai Rak Thai Party executives, said that today marks the 5th anniversary of the September 19, 2006 coup, which created a great loss for the country.

He said Thailand has been through many coups already and that it does not need another.

However, Chaturon noted that there is a high possibility that another coup could take place in the future since there are still some influential figures who do not trust the parliamentary system.

He added that Thai society should not forget and should remind itself about the cruelty of a military coup as it is unfair and illegal.

The banned politician noted that after the coup, the social divide became deeper and the government wasn't able focus on addressing the problems facing the country because it changed five times over the past five years.

Jaturont said that making Thailand a truly democratic society, has to begin with a constitutional amendment and restoring a governance system free from interference.

Meanwhile, he said the military has remained closely involved with politics over the past five years and that even though now it is relatively inactive, it is not out of the picture yet

-- Tan Network 2011-09-19

[Who, me ?]

well, it is now more than 1 year that we hear about a coup every week.

Let's face it, if a coup had to happen, it would have happened already. Now, if there is still a risk or a chance rather, for it to happen, I am quite sure that it's not going to be any time soon. Election have just been held, and the vote brought a new government in power. This government is just a farce, and is only here to bring one fugitive back home, but a coup now would not be well seen abroad.

Better let the PTP = UDD thugs show are much they care about their voters, let the protests massively come back, let the PTP = UDD show their true colors in dealing in a violent way with protesters and all who disagree with them, and then, there will be ground for a coup, or something else that will put an end to this farce.

[metisdead]

No matter how veiled the speculation, do not go there.

2) Not to express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban.

Several posts have been deleted.

[jonclark]

No matter how veiled the speculation, do not go there.

2) Not to express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban.

Several posts have been deleted.

Perhaps this advice should be passed on to several serving politicians....

[backtonormal]

He started it. He questioned my dignity, not that I got much left. I stated a fact, if that fact is not the reason why we are not having a coup I apologise.

[backtonormal]

What a one sided thread this will be. To truly oppose the use of coups to prop up certain peoples financial interests it may be that people will err on the wrong side of the law to fully explain their believes. Maybe an idea to close it to be fair to both sides, it can only be a one sided discussion that will appear to the unknowledgable that coups are a good thing for Thailand.

[Siripon]

The last coup was essential to remove an aspiring despot, it was disappointing afterwards to see Sonthi immediately hand over power to Surayud, a decent man, but clearly not up to running a country.

Thitinan has a good article published today in the paper that cannot be named.

[rubl]

What a one sided thread this will be. To truly oppose the use of coups to prop up certain peoples financial interests it may be that people will err on the wrong side of the law to fully explain their believes. Maybe an idea to close it to be fair to both sides, it can only be a one sided discussion that will appear to the unknowledgable that coups are a good thing for Thailand.

Strictly speaking any coup is illegal. Some clearly so, some less when lots of people agree it was a good idea. The September 2006 coup followed an episode of a caretaker PM trying to wear down some legal framework he saw as obstruction to his 'we can rule for twenty years'. That still doesn't make it a legal coup, but goes a bit to explain why it slowly had become unavoidable.

At the moment we have a new parliament, MPs, a PM choosen by those MPs, a cabinet. Personally I'm still a bit puzzled about UDD MPs and our ever smiling PM Ms. Yingluck, but so be it. It's only when the PM, her cabinet and advisors start to modify structures, laws and other things just to get 'big brother' Thaksin back, that we are in danger of the people who started to defy k. Taksin will do so again. Remember k. Thaksin saying something like 'democracy is not my goal'

[metisdead]

Comments on moderation issues have been removed.

21) Not to discuss moderation publicly in the open forum; this includes individual actions, and specific or general policies and issues. You may send a PM to a moderator to discuss individual actions or email support (at) thaivisa.com to discuss moderation policy

[jayboy]

The last coup was essential to remove an aspiring despot, it was disappointing afterwards to see Sonthi immediately hand over power to Surayud, a decent man, but clearly not up to running a country.

Thitinan has a good article published today in the paper that cannot be named.

It was a good article which I would commend to all:it is unusually fairminded.However Thitinan, while understanding the arguments, would not support the statement made in Siripon's first sentence.

[hammered]

The legacy of the coup is that such forms of management of democracy no longer work and indeed worsen things. The future is resolving political differences and conflicts through the ballot box, parliament and other institutions of democracy and not by intervention by vested interest groups. The article by Thitinan in the unmentionable one is worth a read imho as others have said.

[phiphidon]

Strictly speaking any coup is illegal. Some clearly so, some less when lots of people agree it was a good idea. The September 2006 coup followed an episode of a caretaker PM trying to wear down some legal framework he saw as obstruction to his 'we can rule for twenty years'. That still doesn't make it a legal coup, but goes a bit to explain why it slowly had become unavoidable.

At the moment we have a new parliament, MPs, a PM choosen by those MPs, a cabinet. Personally I'm still a bit puzzled about UDD MPs and our ever smiling PM Ms. Yingluck, but so be it. It's only when the PM, her cabinet and advisors start to modify structures, laws and other things just to get 'big brother' Thaksin back, that we are in danger of the people who started to defy k. Taksin will do so again. Remember k. Thaksin saying something like 'democracy is not my goal'

That "something like" is nothing like he said. That is a misquotation taken out of context, from guess where, THE NATION. The full phrase is

"Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned," he said. "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress."

http://www.thaivisa....is-not-my-goal/

Doesn't sound quite so sinister now, does it? But hey, why not repeat a misquotation thousands of times until everybody thinks that that, is what Thaksin said.....................

[Pib]

well, it is now more than 1 year that we hear about a coup every week.

Is the average time really that high...a week...7 days. I thought it was lower at around every 3 to 4 days or is it 3 to 4 times per day....when you hear the word coup so often, it seems it's a daily discussion item by some politician or military type.

[rubl]

Strictly speaking any coup is illegal. Some clearly so, some less when lots of people agree it was a good idea. The September 2006 coup followed an episode of a caretaker PM trying to wear down some legal framework he saw as obstruction to his 'we can rule for twenty years'. That still doesn't make it a legal coup, but goes a bit to explain why it slowly had become unavoidable.

At the moment we have a new parliament, MPs, a PM choosen by those MPs, a cabinet. Personally I'm still a bit puzzled about UDD MPs and our ever smiling PM Ms. Yingluck, but so be it. It's only when the PM, her cabinet and advisors start to modify structures, laws and other things just to get 'big brother' Thaksin back, that we are in danger of the people who started to defy k. Taksin will do so again. Remember k. Thaksin saying something like 'democracy is not my goal'

That "something like" is nothing like he said. That is a misquotation taken out of context, from guess where, THE NATION. The full phrase is

"Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned," he said. "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress."

http://www.thaivisa....is-not-my-goal/

Doesn't sound quite so sinister now, does it? But hey, why not repeat a misquotation thousands of times until everybody thinks that that, is what Thaksin said.....................

Since when is a "something like 'democracy is not our goal'" a misquotation when you dig up the real phrase, being "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal.".

The "democracy as tool" and "the goal is lifestyle, happiness, national progress" suggest something really sinister. "You have 'bread and games', don't bother me about democracy". A variant on the slogan "Thaksin thinks, Pheu Thai acts". One man, one party, no compromise. Very sinister indeed.

In Europe and even in England you'd have a national uproar if someone tried that. Things really changed since the 1930sh

[MunterHunter]

That "something like" is nothing like he said. That is a misquotation taken out of context, from guess where, THE NATION. The full phrase is

"Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned," he said. "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress."

http://www.thaivisa....is-not-my-goal/

Doesn't sound quite so sinister now, does it? But hey, why not repeat a misquotation thousands of times until everybody thinks that that, is what Thaksin said.....................

Sounds a bit like communism to me...

And doesnt really matter how you read it... the important part there is "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal"

So how do you wanna spin that sunshine?

[rubl]

well, it is now more than 1 year that we hear about a coup every week.

Is the average time really that high...a week...7 days. I thought it was lower at around every 3 to 4 days or is it 3 to 4 times per day....when you hear the word coup so often, it seems it's a daily discussion item by some politician or military type.

One might be even excused for believing the discussion is about the shape and colour of icecream-coups

[OzMick]

Strictly speaking any coup is illegal. Some clearly so, some less when lots of people agree it was a good idea. The September 2006 coup followed an episode of a caretaker PM trying to wear down some legal framework he saw as obstruction to his 'we can rule for twenty years'. That still doesn't make it a legal coup, but goes a bit to explain why it slowly had become unavoidable.

At the moment we have a new parliament, MPs, a PM choosen by those MPs, a cabinet. Personally I'm still a bit puzzled about UDD MPs and our ever smiling PM Ms. Yingluck, but so be it. It's only when the PM, her cabinet and advisors start to modify structures, laws and other things just to get 'big brother' Thaksin back, that we are in danger of the people who started to defy k. Taksin will do so again. Remember k. Thaksin saying something like 'democracy is not my goal'

That "something like" is nothing like he said. That is a misquotation taken out of context, from guess where, THE NATION. The full phrase is

"Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned," he said. "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress."

http://www.thaivisa....is-not-my-goal/

Doesn't sound quite so sinister now, does it? But hey, why not repeat a misquotation thousands of times until everybody thinks that that, is what Thaksin said.....................

The reason that it doesn't sound so sinister is that is padded out with politician-speak to obfuscate the real message. Only when it is written, and the reader can dispense with the verbal garbage does the true meaning become clear..............and it sounds a lot like how he is paraphrased.

To be fair, we should judge him by his actions, not is words. A true democracy requires an educated populace able to make informed decisions, a free and critical press without government restriction of content, an independent judiciary, police force and military untainted by nepotism and cronyism.

Yes, Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but definitely not his form of government.

[phiphidon]

That "something like" is nothing like he said. That is a misquotation taken out of context, from guess where, THE NATION. The full phrase is

"Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned," he said. "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress."

http://www.thaivisa....is-not-my-goal/

Doesn't sound quite so sinister now, does it? But hey, why not repeat a misquotation thousands of times until everybody thinks that that, is what Thaksin said.....................

Sounds a bit like communism to me...

And doesnt really matter how you read it... the important part there is "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal"

So how do you wanna spin that sunshine?

Well if that sounds like communism to you, fair enough, it's your take on it. I don't need to spin it, sunshine, I just take it in the context it's written - its others that spin it, for their own reasons.

[phiphidon]

Strictly speaking any coup is illegal. Some clearly so, some less when lots of people agree it was a good idea. The September 2006 coup followed an episode of a caretaker PM trying to wear down some legal framework he saw as obstruction to his 'we can rule for twenty years'. That still doesn't make it a legal coup, but goes a bit to explain why it slowly had become unavoidable.

At the moment we have a new parliament, MPs, a PM choosen by those MPs, a cabinet. Personally I'm still a bit puzzled about UDD MPs and our ever smiling PM Ms. Yingluck, but so be it. It's only when the PM, her cabinet and advisors start to modify structures, laws and other things just to get 'big brother' Thaksin back, that we are in danger of the people who started to defy k. Taksin will do so again. Remember k. Thaksin saying something like 'democracy is not my goal'

That "something like" is nothing like he said. That is a misquotation taken out of context, from guess where, THE NATION. The full phrase is

"Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned," he said. "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress."

http://www.thaivisa....is-not-my-goal/

Doesn't sound quite so sinister now, does it? But hey, why not repeat a misquotation thousands of times until everybody thinks that that, is what Thaksin said.....................

Since when is a "something like 'democracy is not our goal'" a misquotation when you dig up the real phrase, being "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal.".

The "democracy as tool" and "the goal is lifestyle, happiness, national progress" suggest something really sinister. "You have 'bread and games', don't bother me about democracy". A variant on the slogan "Thaksin thinks, Pheu Thai acts". One man, one party, no compromise. Very sinister indeed.

In Europe and even in England you'd have a national uproar if someone tried that. Things really changed since the 1930sh

Oh, just read it in its context, Rubl, in full and then stick with your own viewpoint.

[ginjag]

What a one sided thread this will be. To truly oppose the use of coups to prop up certain peoples financial interests it may be that people will err on the wrong side of the law to fully explain their believes. Maybe an idea to close it to be fair to both sides, it can only be a one sided discussion that will appear to the unknowledgable that coups are a good thing for Thailand.

Strictly speaking any coup is illegal. Some clearly so, some less when lots of people agree it was a good idea. The September 2006 coup followed an episode of a caretaker PM trying to wear down some legal framework he saw as obstruction to his 'we can rule for twenty years'. That still doesn't make it a legal coup, but goes a bit to explain why it slowly had become unavoidable.

At the moment we have a new parliament, MPs, a PM choosen by those MPs, a cabinet. Personally I'm still a bit puzzled about UDD MPs and our ever smiling PM Ms. Yingluck, but so be it. It's only when the PM, her cabinet and advisors start to modify structures, laws and other things just to get 'big brother' Thaksin back, that we are in danger of the people who started to defy k. Taksin will do so again. Remember k. Thaksin saying something like 'democracy is not my goal'

There always will be that threat when the government of the day goes about putting people in positions that they are not capable of running just because of their ties to the P.M. and others. the way it is forming at the minute ((see the thread on the opposition arguing -re- the deceit.)) doesn't the P.M. realise there will be trouble ahead, or do they think they are too powerful to be removed.

[rubl]

That "something like" is nothing like he said. That is a misquotation taken out of context, from guess where, THE NATION. The full phrase is

"Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned," he said. "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress."

http://www.thaivisa....is-not-my-goal/

Doesn't sound quite so sinister now, does it? But hey, why not repeat a misquotation thousands of times until everybody thinks that that, is what Thaksin said.....................

Since when is a "something like 'democracy is not our goal'" a misquotation when you dig up the real phrase, being "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal.".

The "democracy as tool" and "the goal is lifestyle, happiness, national progress" suggest something really sinister. "You have 'bread and games', don't bother me about democracy". A variant on the slogan "Thaksin thinks, Pheu Thai acts". One man, one party, no compromise. Very sinister indeed.

In Europe and even in England you'd have a national uproar if someone tried that. Things really changed since the 1930sh

Oh, just read it in its context, Rubl, in full and then stick with your own viewpoint.

The article suggest a total lack of feeling for democratical principles. It suggest "as long as you have bread and games, you should shut up". Maybe you should read the complete article and when you've done please tell me again why "something like 'democracy is not our goal'" is a misquotation?

[gemini81]

That "something like" is nothing like he said. That is a misquotation taken out of context, from guess where, THE NATION. The full phrase is

"Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned," he said. "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress."

http://www.thaivisa....is-not-my-goal/

Doesn't sound quite so sinister now, does it? But hey, why not repeat a misquotation thousands of times until everybody thinks that that, is what Thaksin said.....................

Sounds a bit like communism to me...

And doesnt really matter how you read it... the important part there is "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal"

So how do you wanna spin that sunshine?

Well if that sounds like communism to you, fair enough, it's your take on it. I don't need to spin it, sunshine, I just take it in the context it's written - its others that spin it, for their own reasons.

So you can't apply critical thinking or read between the lines on thaksin, as to what he meant, using both his past actions and his interviews and attitude to decipher the meaning? If you only read the characters on the paper, then you're thinking along the lines of the average 'thai rat' newspaper reader. " Just a tool, a vehicle" is like a freudian slip, how he wants to use the concept to manipulate it for personal gain, but as for the common folk, don't set out too expect much. With democracy not a goal, an oligarchy and north korean style monuments of square head DO seem to be the goal.

Edited September 19, 2011 by gemini81

[JurgenG]

There will be no more coup for three main reasons ;

- Thai people are tired of violence, they are tired of division, they want peace and reconciliation. Don't forget the coup was not (officially) against Thaksin but to put an end to street violence. How many people were in the street following the election in July? How many people were in the street following the call of the "multi color shirts" ? Most democrats supporters believe the democrats have been given a fair chance, they lost, it's over now until the next election.

- An increasing number of democrats are now voicing the opinion that the coup was not only useless but actually counterproductive. If Thaksin opponents had followed the democratic path to solve the Thaksin problem, he will probably be history by now instead of the popular super hero that he has become.

- The army has no more incentive to stage a coup, quite the opposite. It was useless, didn't solve anything as we are today back to square one, and it landed them in trouble, both nationally and internationally.

And I will add a fourth reason. The PAD, that was instrumental in Thaksin demise, is now recognize for what it is, a force of destruction at the service of a couple of selfish ultra extremist mad men.

So IMO, definitively, no more coup

Edited September 19, 2011 by JurgenG

[caribbeanman]

There will be no more coup for three main reasons ;

- Thai people are tired of violence, they are tired of division, they want peace and reconciliation. Don't forget the coup was not (officially) against Thaksin but to put an end to street violence. How many people were in the street following the election in July? How many people were in the street following the call of the "multi color shirts" ? Most democrats supporters believe the democrats have been given a fair chance, they lost, it's over now until the next election.

- An increasing number of democrats are now voicing the opinion that the coup was not only useless but actually counterproductive. If Thaksin opponents had followed the democratic path to solve the Thaksin problem, he will probably be history by now instead of the popular super hero that he has become.

- The army has no more incentive to stage a coup, quite the opposite. It was useless, didn't solve anything as we are today back to square one, and it landed them in trouble, both nationally and internationally.

And I will add a fourth reason. The PAD, that was instrumental in Thaksin demise, is now recognize for what it is, a force of destruction at the service of a couple of selfish ultra extremist mad men.

So IMO, definitively, no more coup

I also agree with you, i think that by the next two years (at least), the army is going to continue in the barracks, as it should be.

Edited September 19, 2011 by caribbeanman

[dru2]

Don't worry with Phiphidon. He's entirely predeictable, always wrong and always uninformed. Best just switch him off -...

[Misterwhisper]

One of the good things about a coup is that suddenly all those mind-numbing game shows and pulled-by-the-hair soap operas go off air for considerable time (wish it were for longer). Bring it on! The country has some catching-up to do anyway with serious contenders like Liberia and other illustrious nations. If we lag behind with our numbers of coups, we'll never ever become a real hub in that respect. This can only reflect badly on Thailand and its face-conscious establishment.

[whybother]

However, Chaturon noted that there is a high possibility that another coup could take place in the future since there are still some influential figures who do not trust the parliamentary system.

The parliamentary system isn't the problem. The corrupt people in the parliamentary system that is the problem.

Jaturont said that making Thailand a truly democratic society, has to begin with a constitutional amendment and restoring a governance system free from interference.

Does he mean, like, not putting relatives in positions that are supposed to act as the checks and balances?

[rubl]

There will be no more coup for three main reasons ;

- Thai people are tired of violence, they are tired of division, they want peace and reconciliation. Don't forget the coup was not (officially) against Thaksin but to put an end to street violence. How many people were in the street following the election in July? How many people were in the street following the call of the "multi color shirts" ? Most democrats supporters believe the democrats have been given a fair chance, they lost, it's over now until the next election.

- An increasing number of democrats are now voicing the opinion that the coup was not only useless but actually counterproductive. If Thaksin opponents had followed the democratic path to solve the Thaksin problem, he will probably be history by now instead of the popular super hero that he has become.

- The army has no more incentive to stage a coup, quite the opposite. It was useless, didn't solve anything as we are today back to square one, and it landed them in trouble, both nationally and internationally.

And I will add a fourth reason. The PAD, that was instrumental in Thaksin demise, is now recognize for what it is, a force of destruction at the service of a couple of selfish ultra extremist mad men.

So IMO, definitively, no more coup

IMHO, no more coup. I agree with that. For somewhat different reasons than you give, but I'm a somewhat milder person. Also I try to avoid meaningless rhetoric which only annoys rather than helps a open discussion.

Saying 'PAD destructive force' is like asking for someone to remark 'UDD shoutcasts to burn it'. Does that help ?

Let's stick to the 'no coup' for various reasons. Let's also hope no more 'get Thaksin back at any cost' because that would be asking for problems. Thaksin helping PM Hun Sen before and now again is already enough to annoy even non-PAD Thai.

[serenitynow]

There will be no more coup for three main reasons ;

- Thai people are tired of violence, they are tired of division, they want peace and reconciliation. Don't forget the coup was not (officially) against Thaksin but to put an end to street violence. How many people were in the street following the election in July? How many people were in the street following the call of the "multi color shirts" ? Most democrats supporters believe the democrats have been given a fair chance, they lost, it's over now until the next election.

- An increasing number of democrats are now voicing the opinion that the coup was not only useless but actually counterproductive. If Thaksin opponents had followed the democratic path to solve the Thaksin problem, he will probably be history by now instead of the popular super hero that he has become.

- The army has no more incentive to stage a coup, quite the opposite. It was useless, didn't solve anything as we are today back to square one, and it landed them in trouble, both nationally and internationally.

And I will add a fourth reason. The PAD, that was instrumental in Thaksin demise, is now recognize for what it is, a force of destruction at the service of a couple of selfish ultra extremist mad men.

So IMO, definitively, no more coup

IMHO, no more coup. I agree with that. For somewhat different reasons than you give, but I'm a somewhat milder person. Also I try to avoid meaningless rhetoric which only annoys rather than helps a open discussion.

Saying 'PAD destructive force' is like asking for someone to remark 'UDD shoutcasts to burn it'. Does that help ?

Let's stick to the 'no coup' for various reasons. Let's also hope no more 'get Thaksin back at any cost' because that would be asking for problems. Thaksin helping PM Hun Sen before and now again is already enough to annoy even non-PAD Thai.

Watching the SET and the USD:THB, the former heading down, the latter heading up, one gets the impression that a coup is more likely than is generally appreciated, or the cancer that was once thought to be in remission may once again show itself.

[tominbkk]

Once this circus starts cutting into the profits of the big cheese, watch out, because that's when the