Question On Retirement Visa

[Ai52b]

Hi all, are any of you retired people on a Non-immigrant O retirement visa paying tax (PIT) on your pensions/income? There seems to be different opinions on the matter. Even lawfirms are confusing me, they say I don't have to pay tax on that visa. Revenue depertment says another thing. Any experience anyone?

[lopburi3]

You have to pay tax when you earn money and live here and it is brought in during the year earned unless there is a tax treaty between governments that exempts it; (there are many such treaties) so there is no clear answer but have not seen any report of anyone being hounded to pay tax. The visa has nothing to do with tax payment. Being in Thailand does.

[Jingthing]

Even in BKK, I don't believe someone can walk in and ask for and receive a retirement visa... the same as they'd receive outside Thailand. AFAIK, those are only being done as part of a retirement EXTENSION application for those who don't already have some non Imm entry status, such as tourist visa arrivals.

O-A retirement visas are only available from home countries. O-A visas are not necessary to retire in Thailand but the MULTIPLE ENTRY one carries a special feature that many like, getting a full year on reentry. That way people starting with an O-A from their home country don't need to get a retirement extension in Thailand before TWO years.

Some immigration offices, including Bangkok, offer O visas (not O-A retirement visas) as part of the two step process, step one - the visa, step two - the annual extension based on retirement. You can retire this way, but you won't be starting with a retirement (O-A) visa.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Jingthing

[JimGant]

This is incorrect, last year Thai Immigration Bangkok Div 1 required a minimum of 3 months for the first 1 year stay, and for a a number of us including myself, they required us to return after a further one month to show 4 months in total.

Doesn't compute. According to your stamps, you converted your 30-day visa exempt entry on 29 July 2010. You received both a Non Imm O visa and a 90-day permission of stay stamp -- at which time the visa was stamped "Used," same as if it had been a single-entry visa. The 90-day permission stamp was 29 July to 26 Oct -- with 26 Oct slated to be the beginning date of your subsequent retirement extension.

To get that conversion on 29 July, you would have had to show evidence of 800k in the bank. Had the 800k been aged for 2 months, you might have been able to get your one-year retirement extension same-day, i.e., no 90-day stamp, but instead a one-year permission of stay stamp, to begin as of 29 July. But you, like most, even those with aged funds in the bank, or an income statement, were told to come back in 60 days to apply for the retirement extension.

However, it looks like you avoided the "come back in 60 days" as you received your one-year retirement extension on 21 Sept 2010, 55 days after 29 July. Was that just luck -- or did Immigration give you advice on being able to return early?

So, I show you in Immigration on only two days -- 29 July and 21 Sept. But I'm having trouble figuring out how the time frame indicates you needed "4 months in total" for the money aging process? If you had put the money in the bank as late as 24 July, that would have been all you would have needed to convert on 29 July, then get your retirement extension on 21 Sept. Which is what you did. What's missing here?

Quite honestly it does not seem logical for them to require 2 months for the first extension and then 3 months.

Sure it does. Until you get that one-year retirement extension, you're always in the mode of having less than 90 days before having to exit. So, with a nod to those who get off the plane, and run to open a bank account with 800k -- but still come up short of the 3 month aging requirement before having to exit -- viola, it's only 2 months aging for newbies.

[JimGant]

I arrived by a tourist visa on 7th of July and 12th of July i had appointment in Bangkok (only one place where you can change TR vis to Non Imm 0 )

Last year I got a Non-O 3 month visa and a 1 year extension based on a tourist visa at the same day in Khon Kaen:

Possible reason for discrepancy, based on Chiang Mai data -- conversions based on subsequent retirement extensions are allowed out of Bangkok. Conversions based on subsequent marriage extensions can only be done in Bangkok.

[factseeker]

Hi,

I am new to Forum so forgive If I get this entry in wrong position etc etc.

I am English - my wife is French - we are looking to retire in Thailand - visited a lot - like it.

No problem ref meeting requirements - but due to differing nationalities and travelling right now would be easier for us to sort in Thailand..

Would prefer to arrive on 30 day Visa waiver and then try for O Non Immigrant Visa in BKK - prior to going for the OA.

Ref the comments on this Formum thread - are you guys sure I stand a chance ref above method?

The Visa Agencies say no - but then again they might say that.

We are just a very ordinary couple.

Rgds

FS

[lopburi3]

You may not get on the aircraft without a visa (one way travel) and as you need a non immigrant O visa to extend for retirement it would make sense to obtain before you travel to me. This is normally easy to obtain a single entry if age 50 and thinking of checking on retirement. You can not obtain OA in Thailand - that is a special Consulate pre-approved extension of stay. And you can only obtain the non immigrant O visa with proof of being able to meet retirement extension of stay and it costs the same amount here.

But if in travel and no way to obtain visa and can get flight it will be OK to use the conversion/extension process but if using income may involve two letters from Embassy. Are you planning to each get retirement or only one and other dependent extension? Both will require a non-immigrant visa.

[NancyL]

You can come in on visa exempt status no problem if you have a "throw away" ticket showing exit. It's the airlines that enforce this "visa" rule, not any government agency. We found that a round-trip ticket was actually cheaper than a one-way when we came here to retire three years ago. Never used those return tickets! Actually, I don't think the airline really checked our visas vs. our return ticket status, but we had that covered.

Yes, if you get into the country on visa-exempt 30 day stamp, you can get a 90-day "O" visa if you meet the financial requirements for retirement. Then you can return after 60 days and extend that O visa with a 12-month extension based on retirement.

I know several people who have gone this route in Chiang Mai. The only downside is that if you're going the "income" route to prove financial worth, you have to pay for two income verification letters from your consulate -- one for the initial O visa and another a couple months later for the 12-month retirement extension.

Incidentally, Chiang Mai immigration is fairly friendly to retirees, especially retired western couples, who clearly meet the income/financial requirements. No need to pay an agent to do this for you.

[factseeker]

You can come in on visa exempt status no problem if you have a "throw away" ticket showing exit. It's the airlines that enforce this "visa" rule, not any government agency. We found that a round-trip ticket was actually cheaper than a one-way when we came here to retire three years ago. Never used those return tickets! Actually, I don't think the airline really checked our visas vs. our return ticket status, but we had that covered.

Yes, if you get into the country on visa-exempt 30 day stamp, you can get a 90-day "O" visa if you meet the financial requirements for retirement. Then you can return after 60 days and extend that O visa with a 12-month extension based on retirement.

I know several people who have gone this route in Chiang Mai. The only downside is that if you're going the "income" route to prove financial worth, you have to pay for two income verification letters from your consulate -- one for the initial O visa and another a couple months later for the 12-month retirement extension.

Incidentally, Chiang Mai immigration is fairly friendly to retirees, especially retired western couples, who clearly meet the income/financial requirements. No need to pay an agent to do this for you.

Hi NancyL

Sorry I have caused havoc - 2 reply attempts - not intended.

Thnxs so much for your very prompt response.

Ref 'The only downside is that if you're going the "income" route to prove financial worth, you have to pay for two income verification letters from your consulate'.

We were figuring to use the "lump sum" route - presenting with genuine statement - not a problem - is it as straight forward as that?

If it still needs dealing with Embassy - we have experienced all that in another context - I think we would prefer to fly back to Europe.

We know Chang Mai well - like it a lot - but understand that only BKK can switch a Visa waiver entry to some sort of O.

We were hoping to switch to a12 month O - multi entry.

We would in fact be based in Malaysia pro temp - as we have friends who live there and can stay of 3 months at a time - then travel to Thailand until such time as we hopefully sort it all out and can stay.

So flight tickets to Malaysia and then fly in and out of Thailand as necessary.

Rgds

FS

[lopburi3]

1. You can not obtain a multi entry non immigrant O visa in Thailand. Ever. Perhaps you mean get one year extension of stay and a multi re-entry permit?

2. Chiang Mai and many other immigration points can convert entry to non immigrant in the extension of stay process.

3. Lump sum must be in one name only and for at least two months before the extension can be approved. Bank passbook (most Thai banks do not use statements) and a letter from bank of account balance will be required.

[factseeker]

1. You can not obtain a multi entry non immigrant O visa in Thailand. Ever. Perhaps you mean get one year extension of stay and a multi re-entry permit?

2. Chiang Mai and many other immigration points can convert entry to non immigrant in the extension of stay process.

3. Lump sum must be in one name only and for at least two months before the extension can be approved. Bank passbook (most Thai banks do not use statements) and a letter from bank of account balance will be required.

Hi Lopburi3,

Thnks for all info.

Only query is that funds would not be in a Thai Bank at initial stage - so electronic statements.

I understood that a Thai Account was not possible before one has the 1 year O Visa??

Other point is ref Account in one name only.

My wife and I share our Account - it has been in existence for a number of years - so the 2 or 3 months rule that I understand you call

'aging' would be no problem - already aged for some years now.

Splitting funds to 2 Accounts - 'aging' them and then combining again after application would be a lot of hassle at distance.

Rgds.

FS

Edited October 24, 2011 by factseeker

[lopburi3]

The money must be in Thailand account and the ageing done here. There is no requirement for any special visa or extension to open an account here. And the money must must be in the name of the applicant only (they have in past accepted joint accounts but only if the money in account is twice the normal requirement). Only if you obtain a non immigrant O-A visa from home country can the funds be outside Thailand.

[factseeker]

The money must be in Thailand account and the ageing done here. There is no requirement for any special visa or extension to open an account here. And the money must must be in the name of the applicant only (they have in past accepted joint accounts but only if the money in account is twice the normal requirement). Only if you obtain a non immigrant O-A visa from home country can the funds be outside Thailand.

Hi,

Thnxs for info - I have a handle on it now - I think.

Surprised ref Bank Account - when I asked for one a few years ago they looked at us as if we were Bonnie & Clyde.

Edited October 24, 2011 by factseeker

[merijn]

I have just a small advice for all those people who are trying to get a Non Imm-OA visa from their Thai embassy back in their home country.

If you are trying to get this visa and have off-course all the required paper and financial things worked out make sure that you really get an Non Imm-OA ( retirement ) and not just a “normal” Non-Imm O visa ( Multiple )

I know from experience that a lot of the embassies are reluctant to give this Non-Imm OA visa and are instead issuing the normal Non-Imm O visa. ( don’t ask me why as I don’t know this )

They will sometimes inform the people that those two visas are the same as they are both multiple entries and valid for one year.

This is off-course not correct as the normal Non-Imm O visa only gives you 90 days entry at the time and the Non-Imm OA visa gives you 365 days.

If you plan this good and return back to Thailand just before the expire date of the visa you will receive again 365 days entry.

So make sure that when you receive the visa that there is RETIREMENT written or stamped on as you will otherwise only get 90 days at the border.

[lopburi3]

I do not know of any Embassy Consulate that would do this but some Honorary Consulates might.

[factseeker]

You can come in on visa exempt status no problem if you have a "throw away" ticket showing exit. It's the airlines that enforce this "visa" rule, not any government agency. We found that a round-trip ticket was actually cheaper than a one-way when we came here to retire three years ago. Never used those return tickets! Actually, I don't think the airline really checked our visas vs. our return ticket status, but we had that covered.

Yes, if you get into the country on visa-exempt 30 day stamp, you can get a 90-day "O" visa if you meet the financial requirements for retirement. Then you can return after 60 days and extend that O visa with a 12-month extension based on retirement.

I know several people who have gone this route in Chiang Mai. The only downside is that if you're going the "income" route to prove financial worth, you have to pay for two income verification letters from your consulate -- one for the initial O visa and another a couple months later for the 12-month retirement extension.

Incidentally, Chiang Mai immigration is fairly friendly to retirees, especially retired western couples, who clearly meet the income/financial requirements. No need to pay an agent to do this for you.

Good Morning ( for me ) NancyL

Ref your " Then you can return after 60 days and extend that O visa with a 12-month extension based on retirement."

Does this mean that having obtained the 90-day "O" visa - we stay around in Thailand for more or less that period - then have to stay outside of 60 days before we get back to extend that O visa with a 12-month extension based on retirement?

Or can it be short circuited by maybe when having obtained the 90-day "O" visa - leave more or less immediately and come back maybe a couple of weeks later to extend that O visa to 12 months??

Does it have to be 90 days followed by the 60? Is an essential??

Ref having an account suitable 'aged' - I may be able to get that set up at distance - if so that side of things would not need to cause a delay and would be 'aging' as we travel to Thailand.

Best.

FS.

[lopburi3]

Normal procedure is to apply/issue extension of stay during the last 30 days of allowed entry so that would be 60 days after the non immigrant visa entry date. You stay in Thailand.

[merijn]

I do not know of any Embassy Consulate that would do this but some Honorary Consulates might.

The examples I saw where issued from Thai Embassies.

So far I know most Thai Consuls don't issue those retirement visas, only Thai Embassies are issuing those visas.

[lopburi3]

Be it at Embassy or remote visas are always issued by Consulate Section. What Embassies have you seen reports that they would not issue?

[NancyL]

I have just a small advice for all those people who are trying to get a Non Imm-OA visa from their Thai embassy back in their home country.

If you are trying to get this visa and have off-course all the required paper and financial things worked out make sure that you really get an Non Imm-OA ( retirement ) and not just a "normal" Non-Imm O visa ( Multiple )

I know from experience that a lot of the embassies are reluctant to give this Non-Imm OA visa and are instead issuing the normal Non-Imm O visa. ( don't ask me why as I don't know this )

They will sometimes inform the people that those two visas are the same as they are both multiple entries and valid for one year.

This is off-course not correct as the normal Non-Imm O visa only gives you 90 days entry at the time and the Non-Imm OA visa gives you 365 days.

If you plan this good and return back to Thailand just before the expire date of the visa you will receive again 365 days entry.

So make sure that when you receive the visa that there is RETIREMENT written or stamped on as you will otherwise only get 90 days at the border.

This is exactly what happened to Hubby and me when we applied for O-A visas at the Chicago consulate (can't remember if it was an honorary consulate or not; I suspect so). We submitted identical paperwork and statements of a joint U.S. account well over 1,600,000 baht. They said we'd get our passports returned within 10 days with the visas. Actually it was 3 weeks and they arrived just before our flight to Thailand for retirement. Hubby was granted a O-A visa and I was granted an O visa, so we got on the plane to Thailand, figuring we'd sort it out later. When we asked about this at CM immigration they said "go ask the Chicago consulate." Yeah, sure!

One of our first acts in Thailand was to wire 800,000 baht into a Bangkok Bank account soley in my name. After appropriate ageing, I extended that 90 day O visa into a 12 month retirement extension. All our income is in Hubby's name, so he can legitimately claim an income letter from the American consulate here. (See other threads I've done about how to obtain a simple Thai Will, so Hubby can reclaim that 800,000 baht easily should I die before he does.)

Joint accounts in a foreign country aren't accepted as proof of having 800,000 baht here.

Edited October 25, 2011 by NancyL

[NancyL]

You can come in on visa exempt status no problem if you have a "throw away" ticket showing exit. It's the airlines that enforce this "visa" rule, not any government agency. We found that a round-trip ticket was actually cheaper than a one-way when we came here to retire three years ago. Never used those return tickets! Actually, I don't think the airline really checked our visas vs. our return ticket status, but we had that covered.

Yes, if you get into the country on visa-exempt 30 day stamp, you can get a 90-day "O" visa if you meet the financial requirements for retirement. Then you can return after 60 days and extend that O visa with a 12-month extension based on retirement.

I know several people who have gone this route in Chiang Mai. The only downside is that if you're going the "income" route to prove financial worth, you have to pay for two income verification letters from your consulate -- one for the initial O visa and another a couple months later for the 12-month retirement extension.

Incidentally, Chiang Mai immigration is fairly friendly to retirees, especially retired western couples, who clearly meet the income/financial requirements. No need to pay an agent to do this for you.

Good Morning ( for me ) NancyL

Ref your " Then you can return after 60 days and extend that O visa with a 12-month extension based on retirement."

Does this mean that having obtained the 90-day "O" visa - we stay around in Thailand for more or less that period - then have to stay outside of 60 days before we get back to extend that O visa with a 12-month extension based on retirement?

Or can it be short circuited by maybe when having obtained the 90-day "O" visa - leave more or less immediately and come back maybe a couple of weeks later to extend that O visa to 12 months??

Does it have to be 90 days followed by the 60? Is an essential??

Ref having an account suitable 'aged' - I may be able to get that set up at distance - if so that side of things would not need to cause a delay and would be 'aging' as we travel to Thailand.

Best.

FS.

Interesting questions. Good luck in trying to set up a Thai bank account "remotely". I've talked to several potential retirees who have tried to do it and failed. They showed me all sorts of email correspondence with officials at Thai banks, none of which actually answered their questions. One tried to work all the "connections" he could by contacting fellow Rotary members who were branch managers of local banks in Chiang Mai. It's amazing how they can write English-language emails, full of words, that never really answer the questions.

Bangkok Bank does have offices in London and New York, so it would seem plausible that you could set up accounts in NYC or London, but I'd caution against doing it. You really want to set up your home bank branch near your residence. For example, if you delay pulling your card out of a Bangkok Bank ATM machine for just a few seconds, the machine sucks it up and you have to go to your home bank branch to reclaim you card. You can't reclaim it at the branch of the suck-up. That could be expensive if NYC or London was your home office.

On another topic -- here in CM they insist that you return during the last 30 days of a 90 day O visa to execute a retirement extension. I've known people who would have loved to do it as a "one-step" process, i.e. get the 90 day O visa and promptly extend it for 12 months based on retirement -- but they've been rebuffed at the Immigration office. I have known people who have done it with the assistance of "agents" or so-called visa "lawyers". I'm not certain it's worth their fees, which seem to be close to $1000. If someone legitimately meets the requirements for a retirement visa, has a few brain cells tied together and some time to wait patiently, then there's no need to pay someone $1000 to do this for you.

[Jingthing]

You can't open up a Thai bank account from outside Thailand. Bangkok Bank New York and London are not for personal accounts. Don't even try to use those as your home account in Thailand.

[JimGant]

Does it have to be 90 days followed by the 60? Is an essential??

FS, come to Thailand, establish an individual bank account with 800k, then go to Immigration to convert to a Non Imm visa for the purpose of retirement extension. No aging required for this conversion -- and as Nancy says, even if aged sufficiently to get a one-year extension same-day, they don't do it, at least historically. (The beachfront immigration offices seem to be more accommodating for same-day service, for some reason.)

Anyway, say you do the conversion 1 Nov. You'll get a Non Imm visa stamped into your passport, followed two seconds later by a "USED" stamp over it, then a 90-day permission of stay stamp, with 1Nov thru 29Jan as the inclusive 90-day permission. Then, they'll tell you to come back 30 days before expiration of the permission of stay (i.e., 30 days prior to Jan 29th) to apply for your one-year retirement extension. By then, your money in the bank will have been aged the required two-months. Then, you'll get your one-year retirement extension stamp -- valid for one-year (until Jan 29, 2013 -- i.e., the one-year clock begins ticking at the end of the 90-day permission you received when you converted).

All the above is identical -- except for the geography, forms, and fees -- to obtaining a single entry Non Imm O visa from a Thai consulate abroad, entering Thailand and getting a 90-day stamp at the airport/border (whereupon your visa is stamped "USED"), opening a bank account, then 60 days hence going to Immigration for the retirement extension.

If you want to travel while waiting those 60 days until applying for the one-year extension, you can do so. Just remember to get a re-entry permit to keep that 90-day permission alive -- and to be back before Jan 29th to apply for retirement extension at Immigration.

See post #41 this thread for a PDF of the stamps I'm talking about.

[factseeker]

Does it have to be 90 days followed by the 60? Is an essential??

FS, come to Thailand, establish an individual bank account with 800k, then go to Immigration to convert to a Non Imm visa for the purpose of retirement extension. No aging required for this conversion -- and as Nancy says, even if aged sufficiently to get a one-year extension same-day, they don't do it, at least historically. (The beachfront immigration offices seem to be more accommodating for same-day service, for some reason.)

Anyway, say you do the conversion 1 Nov. You'll get a Non Imm visa stamped into your passport, followed two seconds later by a "USED" stamp over it, then a 90-day permission of stay stamp, with 1Nov thru 29Jan as the inclusive 90-day permission. Then, they'll tell you to come back 30 days before expiration of the permission of stay (i.e., 30 days prior to Jan 29th) to apply for your one-year retirement extension. By then, your money in the bank will have been aged the required two-months. Then, you'll get your one-year retirement extension stamp -- valid for one-year (until Jan 29, 2013 -- i.e., the one-year clock begins ticking at the end of the 90-day permission you received when you converted).

All the above is identical -- except for the geography, forms, and fees -- to obtaining a single entry Non Imm O visa from a Thai consulate abroad, entering Thailand and getting a 90-day stamp at the airport/border (whereupon your visa is stamped "USED"), opening a bank account, then 60 days hence going to Immigration for the retirement extension.

If you want to travel while waiting those 60 days until applying for the one-year extension, you can do so. Just remember to get a re-entry permit to keep that 90-day permission alive -- and to be back before Jan 29th to apply for retirement extension at Immigration.

See post #41 this thread for a PDF of the stamps I'm talking about.

Jim - Nancy - Lopburi,

Can't thank you guys enough - for spending time on this for us.

By the way I got the Police Good Conduct letters organised - but it was all such a bother doing it remotely they are now 4 months old.

Will I need them re-done - the problem is more proving who I am when making the request for them.

The service seems very efficient just the 'proving' bit if being done remotely.

Bets Rgds & Thnxs.

FS

Edited October 25, 2011 by factseeker

[Lite Beer]

Jim - Nancy - Lopburi,

Can't thank you guys enough - for spending time on this for us.

By the way I got the Police Good Conduct letters organised - but it was all such a bother doing it remotely they are now 4 months old.

Will I need them re-done - the problem is more proving who I am when making the request for them.

The service seems very efficient just the 'proving' bit if being done remotely.

Bets Rgds & Thnxs.

FS

If you are talking about extending in Thailand a Police Report or Medical cert. is not required.

[factseeker]

Jim - Nancy - Lopburi,

Can't thank you guys enough - for spending time on this for us.

By the way I got the Police Good Conduct letters organised - but it was all such a bother doing it remotely they are now 4 months old.

Will I need them re-done - the problem is more proving who I am when making the request for them.

The service seems very efficient just the 'proving' bit if being done remotely.

Bets Rgds & Thnxs.

FS

If you are talking about extending in Thailand a Police Report or Medical cert. is not required.

Had read that but the confirmation is welcome - one less thing to chase for.

Ref another piece of reading - are Sponsors / Guarantors needed at UK / France & Thailand end?

Children grown up - fled the nest to all parts around the world.

Most other contacts gone the way of all things during our travels.

Other than that I think all well - PPs plenty of time on them.

Bank Accounts will be OK.

[lopburi3]

When see that on a form I just put 'self'.

[factseeker]

When see that on a form I just put 'self'.

I appreciate a bit premature - but we happen to be in a situation where we are trying to set ourselves a plan to follow.

At what VISA stage can one import household effects?

Rgds.

FS.

[ludditeman]

All you need is to be over 50, have a valid passport and 800k in a Thai bank.

If you fulfill those 3 requirements you can move to Thailand and live here as long as you like.

You might need a return ticket if you come without a Visa, but that is about it.

Stop thinking about it, and just do it, it really is easy.

You need an agent to handle customs if you want to bring household effects, else they will gouge you on import duty. There are no special rules or allowances for bringing in your stuff, unless one of you is a Thai national.Time to let go of all the rubbish you have accumulated, you don't really need it!

What do I wish I had brought with me? (I came with only a laptop and a camera)

Nice towels and bed sheets, the ones here are rubbish and expensive IMHO.

Edited October 26, 2011 by ludditeman

[factseeker]

All you need is to be over 50, have a valid passport and 800k in a Thai bank.

If you fulfill those 3 requirements you can move to Thailand and live here as long as you like.

You might need a return ticket if you come without a Visa, but that is about it.

Stop thinking about it, and just do it, it really is easy.

You need an agent to handle customs if you want to bring household effects, else they will gouge you on import duty. There are no special rules or allowances for bringing in your stuff, unless one of you is a Thai national.Time to let go of all the rubbish you have accumulated, you don't really need it!

What do I wish I had brought with me? (I came with only a laptop and a camera)

Nice towels and bed sheets, the ones here are rubbish and expensive IMHO.

Hi Ludditeman,

Thnxs for advice.

Was it Sartre - something about - "possessions owning one rather than the reverse"??

My 'child bride' is in fact French - but has obviously never heard of that particular bloke - so I have little choice in the matter.

I must admit - a Laptop and Camera would do it for me - plus maybe a beer.

Hoping to be Thai side shortly - like the place - love the people.

Rgds.

FS

Edited October 26, 2011 by factseeker