Thai Govt Worried About Locals Destroying Flood Barriers

[billd766]

It went something along the lines of............. "Khun King Canute" I think!!!!:jap:.

You obviously don't understand the point of the story of King Canute.

Canute is famous for the tale of the incoming tide. According to legend, Canute's courtiers (red shirts and Northern Thai's) flattered him into believing that his word was so powerful that even the tide would recede at his command. Canute is said to have taken this compliment literally and had his throne placed by the shore (he hasn't received it yet so this is slightly inaccurate) and vainly attempted to command the waves to recede until he almost drowned (the insertion of 'almost' is the most disappointing bit).

WHO doesn't understand the story???????:jap:.

Yes, I thought so, you don't understand the point.

I found this on Google which was more the way I remembered from school some 50 odd years ago.

http://inspirationalstories.com/0/91.html

Long ago, England was ruled by a king named Canute. Like many leaders and men of power, Canute was surrounded by people who were always praising him. Every time he walked into a room, the flattery began.

"You are the greatest man that ever lived," one would say.

"O king, there can never be another as mighty as you," another would insist.

"Your highness, there is nothing you cannot do," someone would smile.

"Great Canute, you are the monarch of all," another would sing. "Nothing in this world dares to disobey you."

The king was a man of sense, and he grew tired of hearing such foolish speeches.

One day he was walking by the seashore, and his officers and courtiers were with him, praising him as usual. Canute decided to teach them a lesson.

"So you say I am the greatest man in the world?" he asked them.

"O king," they cried, "there never has been anyone as mighty as you, and there never be anyone so great, ever again!"

"And you say all things obey me?" Canute asked.

"Absolutely!" they said. "The world bows before you, and gives you honor."

"I see," the king answered. "In that case, bring me my chair, and we will go down to the water."

"At once, your majesty!" They scrambled to carry his royal chair over the sands.

"Bring it closer to the sea," Canute called. "Put it right here, right at the water's edge." He sat down and surveyed the ocean before him. "I notice the tide is coming in. Do you think it will stop if I give the command?"

His officers were puzzled, but they did not dare say no. "Give the order, O great king, and it will obey," one of then assured him.

"Very well. Sea," cried Canute, "I command you to come no further! Waves, stop your rolling!. Surf, stop your pounding! Do not dare touch my feet!"

He waited a moment, quietly, and a tiny wave rushed up the sand and lapped at his feet.

"How dare you!" Canute shouted. "Ocean, turn back now! I have ordered you to retreat before me, and now you must obey! Go back!"

And in answer another wave swept forward and curled around the king's feet. The tide came in, just as it always did. The water rose higher and higher. It came up around the king's chair, and wet not only his feet, but also his robe. His officers stood before him, alarmed, and wondering whether he was not mad.

"Well, my friends," Canute said, "it seems I do not have quite so much power as you would have me believe. Perhaps you have learned something today. Perhaps now you will remember there is only one King who is all-powerful, and it is he who rules the sea, and holds the ocean in the hollow of his hand. I suggest you reserve your praises for him."

The royal officers and courtiers hung their heads and looked foolish. And some say Canute took off his crown soon afterward, and never wore it again.

[Pacificperson]

Robbing Peter to pay Paul, makes Peter mad.

[David48]

CHECK THIS OUT !

FLOODING 101 for the Amateur.

This is a huge file ,but shows some of the water that is passing and some of the different types of dikes .

About 3/4 of the way down the Page , It does take some time to Load, there are some new ideas on Flood Control Devices. Very Interesting.

http://www.manitobap...itoba_Flood.htm

FLOOD CONTROL

It took me a few days to find this LINK , Well Worth the Time to L@@K

You may even want to pass this onto those that are in-charge of the ? Dikes ?? Dykes ? ** Barriers **

Loved the way we here in Chiang Mai Sand Bagged the River Road to protect the prestigious homes along it , only to Flood out a Hospital, back in 2005.

This years flood here was an avoid and ignore scenario for me, I guess I am learning.. hehehe

Hey there CM Farang ... I hope to be joining you soon for the Loy Krathong celebrations.

I tried to open that link you discribed and you might want to edit your originial post to WARN others who either have an average internet connection or an older computer that it is a 'very large file' that they are trying to open when they visit that page.

It crashed my computer within 3 mins of clicking the link.

By the time most get to my post they will be well past yours, so maybe an edit to your originial post might save some heartache for others.

Just a thought ...

[serenitynow]

This has happend everywhere over Thailand and it will happen in BKK too. By building dykes you flood other parts more. So i understand people breaking them down. Same here we have more water because BKK refused to open its floodgates more. So if one of those breaks down it could help me.

Once the water hits your house you think a lot differently about dykes that make the water enter your home.

Either you are as dense as a sandbag or English is not be your first language. The tone of what you keep posting sounds vindictive and childish. And just what does your comment:

"Once the water hits your house you (will) think a lot differently about dykes that make the water enter your home." mean????

How does any of that not make sense? Put simply they've flooded the provinces to save Bangkok. It would piss me off if I lived up there

They flooded the provinces because they were dumpimg dam water at the same time as storms were hitting Thailand. They had lots of lead time to dump the water prior to the rains but their priorities were elsewhere. The provinces are flooded to the extent they are due to gross mismangement / malfeasance.

[robertson468]

This has happend everywhere over Thailand and it will happen in BKK too. By building dykes you flood other parts more. So i understand people breaking them down. Same here we have more water because BKK refused to open its floodgates more. So if one of those breaks down it could help me.

Once the water hits your house you think a lot differently about dykes that make the water enter your home.

It could help you and it could then devatsate Bangkok which should be good if you need any hopsital treatment or anyone in the village needs a job later or if you want a total collapse of the economy.

Being underwater I am sure is not good but to flood inner Bangkok will be catastrophic.

Travelman, quantify your comment, instead of spouting empty rhetoric. incidentally, there are thousands of hospitals all over the Country, they are not unique to BKK. You overstate the case if BKK is flooded. First of all, it depends on how deep and where. You might also like to consider the flood damage already done to the many business parks, which will create damage to the economy - they are not in BKK. In time, they will also recover. One has to wonder where you live - BKK by any chance?

Edited October 24, 2011 by robertson468

[OzMick]

A State of Emergency would not have been required to stop people from destroying the wall.

A simple, police intervention would have done the trick to stop it.

Not having the SOE is no excuse.

One might rightly ask: where were the police when this was taking place?

You're asking us? Try asking the Brother in Law!

[eastlight]

They would not have to worry so much about people destroying dykes and levees and what not if they declared a state of emergency.

The state of emergency is all ready upon them now all they have to do is recognize it declare it and act on it.

Not going to happen big brother dosen't want it.

I saw some dykes yesterday - I think they were German

[OzMick]

Imagine a sloping area, if its not blocked water will flow down freely and at speed never getting high and moving quickly. Now if you block that slope water will rise on higher parts of the slope causing more trouble there. Also the water will take longer to find its path around the slope giving more trouble to parts higher up the sloping area.

So what i am saying is don't block the flow of water or when you do give it alternatives to move to. This way everyone will be rid of it faster and the water wont be as high in the effected area's. Of course sandbags will have to be placed around hospitals and other important buildings as long as you give the water an alternative place to go to.

I'd agree, and was thinking a large wedge shaped guiding barrier (with the pointed end facing against the incoming direction of the water) would allow the mass of water to flow faster down and around whatever the barrier is trying to protect, instead of a flat barrier that faces the mass of water.

Would a wedge-shaped barrier on the north end of Bangkok make sense?

No

[farang000999]

post a picture robbo if u can. it makes it more interesting. how r u doing for food and water?

[elcent]

HMK's advice from many years ago has been widely ignored. You remember the 1/3 of land for water ponds. I have seen it myself, in a more remote village where the locals did it and they keep an eye on the forests surrounding the area too. They don't have that big problems than other villages have even they're right in an area which is prone to flooding. It has become something like a tourist attraction for locals.

Nature doesn't take away without giving anything good in return. When someone mentions about 400 billions for water regulation, forget about them completely. No joking, they are not up for anything good. Instead take this tragedy to find the right spots to make one or two dams and you will also get plenty of clean and green energy in return. A few sacrifices and blessings will be on it's way. No need for dangerous and dirty energy either.

[Buchholz]

They would not have to worry so much about people destroying dykes and levees and what not if they declared a state of emergency.

The state of emergency is all ready upon them now all they have to do is recognize it declare it and act on it.

Not going to happen big brother dosen't want it.

This IS the crux of the matter - Thaksin losing all he has to gain through a (phantom imaginary coup) has instructed the red shirt MP's to resist the Democrats calls for a state of emergency.

Through not involving the army to maintain civilian unrest and stop things from getting out of hand he has exacerbated the problems. He is nothing but an "agent of despair" for the Thai people if the truth be known but will the people keep on listening to and blindly follow this "self claimed messiah's" every word, of course they will!!! Their blind faith in this corrupt individual beggars belief, and he will continue to hold Thailand back and create misery for the people whilst he remains involved in Thai politics and running the show for his own benefit!!!.

Sad of course, but they only have themselves to blame and are suffering more than need be as a consequence of this foolish belief that he cares about them when he clearly doesn't!!

Another thing, does anyone think he cares about baby Yingluck who is experiencing her "personal hell"?? I for one don't, and cannot feel sorry for her as she was stupid to have listened to her brother by signing up to all of this - with his simple agenda of getting his passport back and smooth the way for his return to Thailand!!! It was doomed for the start - it is like putting someone into a grand prix car who hasn't learned to drive and expect them to compete. She hit the wall on the first corner after taking three other cars out in the process because nobody explained to her what the steering wheel was for!!!:jap:.

Fact: nobody has heard much of Tea S these last days... Would it be that the messiah has - for a change - no magic remedy to propose to "his" people?

Oh believe me, he'll have a remedy to propose, when it's over. Think "MEGAPROJECT".

His announced 400,000,000,000.00 project is subject to upward revision.

Still, he could pay for it individually and personally, with just a portion of his gold and platinum mines.

.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Buchholz

[MILT]

Can we have just one flood thread without mention of Darth Thaksin and his sinister efforts to return from exile, protect his or his cronies' assets and/or influence the machinations of the inept and predictably ham-fisted disaster management policy?

[shunima]

They would not have to worry so much about people destroying dykes and levees and what not if they declared a state of emergency.

The state of emergency is all ready upon them now all they have to do is recognize it declare it and act on it.

Not going to happen big brother dosen't want it.

I saw some dykes yesterday - I think they were German

You are a funny person. I cannot stop laughing, that is how funny you are. You should make a profession out of your amazing skill of being the funniest person around. Oh what joy you could bring to this sad sad world. May I call you funny man?

[David48]

Mostly because you have the wrong picture.

I live in Chiang Mai, near the river, so my place was flooded with 1.5 m of water at most (my area is below street level and below river level - worst case scenario). It took 4 days for the water to disappear completely (the top meter of water disappeared by flowing, the rest mostly went into the ground).

Why only 4 days? simple: no dikes were built just below me, so water just flowed. It came in and it went out. Damage: computer, fridge, car and motorbike (All of which would have been prevented with a 1 day advance warning).

Some reflexions:

1. 4-6 weeks for the water to evacuate. This is a misrepresentation of the situation: if the water flows, each individual area would be flooded for 4 days at most, so we are not talking about "Bangkok under water for 4-6 weeks", we are talking about each area having to deal with a couple days of flooding. More for some areas, less for others. Concentrating the pumps to the non flowing areas would render

2. Depth: Most areas would suffer from a few cm of water, not 1.5 m. The main reason why the water is high above Bangkok is that it was prevented from flowing, forcing the water to accumulate. If it weren't for those stupid flood barriers the whole situation would have been over about a week ago.

Either way, allowing the water to flow through Bangkok would spread it on a much larger surface, meaning the depth of the water would be much lower. Probably knee deep at worst.

The government is worried about locals destroying the flood barriers, They should be worried about having those stupid flood barriers in the first place.

And for all the idiots clamoring for a state of emergency... Are you really that keen to have your freedoms removed? What would a state of emergency do that can't be done right now?

Sylver ... I have to take you to task on a few of your conclusions.

From 1/ It is really illogical to conclude that since the water was only flooding Chiang Mai for 4 days that the rest of Thailand would flood for 4 days if there were no barrier, dykes etc. Chaing Mai is at the 'head waters of the river and as such the catchment area is moderately small when compared to the entire catchment that flows into the ChaoPhraya system.

Thailand river systems here ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chaophrayarivermap.png

To quote from the website http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_systems_of_Thailand "The Chao Phraya watershed is the largest watershed in Thailand, covering approximately 35% of the nation's land, and draining an area of 157,924 km²"

In addition, where the Chao Phraya becomes semi-tidal the river levels will be a combination of the increased water flow and the backing up of these waters due to higher then normal tides that are experienced around this time of year.

Not wanting to flame you but instead bring some factual relevance to your argument.

Edited October 24, 2011 by metisdead
Repaired quote and reset font to default forum font.

[OzMick]

How does any of that not make sense? Put simply they've flooded the provinces to save Bangkok. It would piss me off if I lived up there

The provinces were flooded well before the water got to Bangkok.

True but restricting its flow so BKK would not get it was / is happening.

Try to understand that the canals through BKK are for drainage and have to be pumped out. The northern inlet gates are partially open allowing water into the city, but once the pumps are at full capacity, there cannot be any increase in flow. If the gates were fully opened, the city would flood to NO ADVANTAGE, in fact if electricity supplies or substations were lost then pumping might have to be reduced.

The Chao Praya and canals to the east and west are still draining, to the detriment of those living along the canals. No-one is simply blocking water, it is nonsensical to think that they would.

[robblok]

post a picture robbo if u can. it makes it more interesting. how r u doing for food and water?

Broke out the cuppoards under the sink to save them (wooden fronts) Put up the bikes on couch and other stuff. Put some stones under the washing machine.

Got plenty of water and food on the second floor, electricity is there too none on the first.

Keep in mind the water in the streets is wraist deep. I only got about 5 cm in the house its rising every night (not during the day strangely)

As long as my water pump does not submerge and short out i can survive.

I am not going to destroy any flood barriers, i wish BKK nothing ill just want this resolved.

[serenitynow]

I told someone over a week ago that it would not surprise me in the least of people outside of the protected areas of BKK finally get fed up with them being constantly flooded and losing everything, while precious BKK is kept safe and dry, and do something about it, like tearing down flood walls and dykes.

I wish no bad luck on anyone, and it is the poor who live in BKK who would suffer the most from BKK flooding. But maybe, just maybe, if the BKK elite and snobs finally get an idea of what so many other Thai have to deal with on a nearly yearly basis, then something will finally be done to take the necessary steps to correct this situation.

Let's face it, the government, and not just this one, but just about any of them, really don't have a clue as to what to do. Governments for the past 20 years have ignored the warnings from the experts and now it's coming back to haunt them. And in reality, the Army is in no better position to do anything other than restrict movement and protect what's already been put into place.

Until the real experts are brought in - and Thailand has them - and then actually LISTENED TO, and their advice followed, things are not going to change. More than one has basically said, "Open the gates, take down the temporary barriers and Let The Water Flow!" Yes, it will flood BKK for a while, but it will be much less than what it will be if they continue to try and block/divert it, and it will be over with for everyone much quicker.

I've heard people say in the "other" paper things such as: "I don't care about what happens in the provinces, Bangkok must be saved at all costs! Bangkok IS Thailand!". These people really need to come down from their penthouse, or out of their mansion, and get a look at the real world. They fail to realize that without the provinces, without the food and work force that comes from those provinces, Bangkok could not survive. Bangkok is Bangkok, it is NOT Thailand.

Dear 1voice

I think I know you from "that other newspaper" and I recall amny very sensible posts there from your side.

This is why I am very surprised to read posts like this from you.

I am all on your side in the analysis of more than the current government making heaps of mistakes (adding to corruptiom, neglecting laws of nature and physics, "mai pen rai" etc), that were leading up to this point.

And NO, Bangkok is not Thailand.

But if I am not mistaken, 25% of the Thai population work here, 40% of the money in all of Thailand is accumulated here (industry, business).

I really have a problem seein, what a capitol, submerged in 1,5 meter of stinking contaminated water for 4 to 6 weeks, will actually gain for Thailand?!

If Bangkok comes to a standstill, it is "back to the stoneage" for Thailand. It will hurt EVERYBODY. The people who are suffering now, will suffer even more, because cleaning up a mess in Ayutthaya may take weeks...imagine devastation on a scale like that in Bangkok.

I am all for "Bangkok has to take one for the team", but tearing down floodwalls and allowing water to freely flow into the city? Submerging it for days or weeks? No way, that should be allowed. t would be a disaster of EPIC proportions and no SOE or Royal decree or whatever would help here.

I feel for eveyone, having lost homes or jobs and I think I have not even the slightest idea, how bad it is "out there"...but adding another few millions to that suffering? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me!

Mostly because you have the wrong picture.

I live in Chiang Mai, near the river, so my place was flooded with 1.5 m of water at most (my area is below street level and below river level - worst case scenario). It took 4 days for the water to disappear completely (the top meter of water disappeared by flowing, the rest mostly went into the ground).

Why only 4 days? simple: no dikes were built just below me

, so water just flowed. It came in and it went out. Damage: computer, fridge, car and motorbike (All of which would have been prevented with a 1 day advance warning).

Some reflexions:

1. 4-6 weeks for the water to evacuate. This is a misrepresentation of the situation: if the water flows, each individual area would be flooded for 4 days at most, so we are not talking about "Bangkok under water for 4-6 weeks", we are talking about each area having to deal with a couple days of flooding. More for some areas, less for others. Concentrating the pumps to the non flowing areas would render

2. Depth: Most areas would suffer from a few cm of water, not 1.5 m. The main reason why the water is high above Bangkok is that it was prevented from flowing, forcing the water to accumulate. If it weren't for those stupid flood barriers the whole situation would have been over about a week ago.

Either way, allowing the water to flow through Bangkok would spread it on a much larger surface, meaning the depth of the water would be much lower. Probably knee deep at worst.

The government is worried about locals destroying the flood barriers, They should be worried about having those stupid flood barriers in the first place.

And for all the idiots clamoring for a state of emergency... Are you really that keen to have your freedoms removed? What would a state of emergency do that can't be done right now?

I think the fact that you are 400+ meters above sea level may have contributed to the drainage. Bangkok is +/- at sea level.

[farang000999]

thanks for teh photos good luck.

[chrisinth]

HMK's advice from many years ago has been widely ignored. You remember the 1/3 of land for water ponds. I have seen it myself, in a more remote village where the locals did it and they keep an eye on the forests surrounding the area too. They don't have that big problems than other villages have even they're right in an area which is prone to flooding. It has become something like a tourist attraction for locals.

Nature doesn't take away without giving anything good in return. When someone mentions about 400 billions for water regulation, forget about them completely. No joking, they are not up for anything good. Instead take this tragedy to find the right spots to make one or two dams and you will also get plenty of clean and green energy in return. A few sacrifices and blessings will be on it's way. No need for dangerous and dirty energy either.

HMK's advice was sound, at the time. Where, especially in Bkk and surrounding provencies, do we allocate the 1/3 of land? The majority of allocated flood plains that were suggested (and used then) are now builtup areas. The new airport springs to mind as being built on one of those areas? Added with the reported worst rain pattern for the past 50 years (this seems to have been forgotten from the equation) it adds to a natural event compromised by human intervention.

I do agree with ignoring the vast amounts stated for water regulation; put up more dams and we will cause so much disruption. Serious question, where would the dams be located (if it ever happened) and what would be the resulting effect to surrounding areas of the water catchment?

[DocN]

I told someone over a week ago that it would not surprise me in the least of people outside of the protected areas of BKK finally get fed up with them being constantly flooded and losing everything, while precious BKK is kept safe and dry, and do something about it, like tearing down flood walls and dykes.

I wish no bad luck on anyone, and it is the poor who live in BKK who would suffer the most from BKK flooding. But maybe, just maybe, if the BKK elite and snobs finally get an idea of what so many other Thai have to deal with on a nearly yearly basis, then something will finally be done to take the necessary steps to correct this situation.

Let's face it, the government, and not just this one, but just about any of them, really don't have a clue as to what to do. Governments for the past 20 years have ignored the warnings from the experts and now it's coming back to haunt them. And in reality, the Army is in no better position to do anything other than restrict movement and protect what's already been put into place.

Until the real experts are brought in - and Thailand has them - and then actually LISTENED TO, and their advice followed, things are not going to change. More than one has basically said, "Open the gates, take down the temporary barriers and Let The Water Flow!" Yes, it will flood BKK for a while, but it will be much less than what it will be if they continue to try and block/divert it, and it will be over with for everyone much quicker.

I've heard people say in the "other" paper things such as: "I don't care about what happens in the provinces, Bangkok must be saved at all costs! Bangkok IS Thailand!". These people really need to come down from their penthouse, or out of their mansion, and get a look at the real world. They fail to realize that without the provinces, without the food and work force that comes from those provinces, Bangkok could not survive. Bangkok is Bangkok, it is NOT Thailand.

Dear 1voice

I think I know you from "that other newspaper" and I recall amny very sensible posts there from your side.

This is why I am very surprised to read posts like this from you.

I am all on your side in the analysis of more than the current government making heaps of mistakes (adding to corruptiom, neglecting laws of nature and physics, "mai pen rai" etc), that were leading up to this point.

And NO, Bangkok is not Thailand.

But if I am not mistaken, 25% of the Thai population work here, 40% of the money in all of Thailand is accumulated here (industry, business).

I really have a problem seein, what a capitol, submerged in 1,5 meter of stinking contaminated water for 4 to 6 weeks, will actually gain for Thailand?!

If Bangkok comes to a standstill, it is "back to the stoneage" for Thailand. It will hurt EVERYBODY. The people who are suffering now, will suffer even more, because cleaning up a mess in Ayutthaya may take weeks...imagine devastation on a scale like that in Bangkok.

I am all for "Bangkok has to take one for the team", but tearing down floodwalls and allowing water to freely flow into the city? Submerging it for days or weeks? No way, that should be allowed. t would be a disaster of EPIC proportions and no SOE or Royal decree or whatever would help here.

I feel for eveyone, having lost homes or jobs and I think I have not even the slightest idea, how bad it is "out there"...but adding another few millions to that suffering? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me!

Mostly because you have the wrong picture.

I live in Chiang Mai, near the river, so my place was flooded with 1.5 m of water at most (my area is below street level and below river level - worst case scenario). It took 4 days for the water to disappear completely (the top meter of water disappeared by flowing, the rest mostly went into the ground).

Why only 4 days? simple: no dikes were built just below me, so water just flowed. It came in and it went out. Damage: computer, fridge, car and motorbike (All of which would have been prevented with a 1 day advance warning).

Some reflexions:

1. 4-6 weeks for the water to evacuate. This is a misrepresentation of the situation: if the water flows, each individual area would be flooded for 4 days at most, so we are not talking about "Bangkok under water for 4-6 weeks", we are talking about each area having to deal with a couple days of flooding. More for some areas, less for others. Concentrating the pumps to the non flowing areas would render

2. Depth: Most areas would suffer from a few cm of water, not 1.5 m. The main reason why the water is high above Bangkok is that it was prevented from flowing, forcing the water to accumulate. If it weren't for those stupid flood barriers the whole situation would have been over about a week ago.

Either way, allowing the water to flow through Bangkok would spread it on a much larger surface, meaning the depth of the water would be much lower. Probably knee deep at worst.

The government is worried about locals destroying the flood barriers, They should be worried about having those stupid flood barriers in the first place.

And for all the idiots clamoring for a state of emergency... Are you really that keen to have your freedoms removed? What would a state of emergency do that can't be done right now?

Dear Sylver

thanks for these explanations. I would be more than happy, IF your estimations were correct.

I am not doubting, I have the wrong picture. As most posters on here, I am neither an expert on floods nor on hydrologie or whatever the field my be named.

I am just expressing my concerns about a bad situation and about the fact, that I don't really see, how a flooding of Bangkok may help.

On top of that I am not only worried (of course) for my own wellbeing and that of my friends, but als majorly confused by the flood (sic!) of contradicting news and information. One source: "Brace for 6 weeks of 1,5 meters of water!" Second source: " we have everything under control."

It's always good to hear friendly, calm, reasuring words in a situation like this.

But still...does comparing Chiang Mai (up north, mountains, on top of the slope) with Bangkok (more or less being described as a "bowl") really work?

Anyways: thanks for your effort and time!

Stay safe!

[elcent]

There are two major situations for the flooding.

1. where the water rises and flows through like someone mentioned here in Chiangmai. This kind of flooding is the most common and the least dangeros.

2. Bangkok and some other areas have a more serious problem when the water gets jammed due to high tides of the sea on every full or new moon.

The situation is well under control in normal years in Bangkok, but sure not during extreme weather condition during an ElNino period.

When they fill up the Klongs with the waters from the North now and the next high tides set in there will be a disaster.

Fortunately some people know that here and they will have a fight with other agencies, like they didn't open the flood gates a 100% as originally ordered too.

Use the lunar calendar to mark critical days.

[OzMick]

I told someone over a week ago that it would not surprise me in the least of people outside of the protected areas of BKK finally get fed up with them being constantly flooded and losing everything, while precious BKK is kept safe and dry, and do something about it, like tearing down flood walls and dykes.

I wish no bad luck on anyone, and it is the poor who live in BKK who would suffer the most from BKK flooding. But maybe, just maybe, if the BKK elite and snobs finally get an idea of what so many other Thai have to deal with on a nearly yearly basis, then something will finally be done to take the necessary steps to correct this situation.

Let's face it, the government, and not just this one, but just about any of them, really don't have a clue as to what to do. Governments for the past 20 years have ignored the warnings from the experts and now it's coming back to haunt them. And in reality, the Army is in no better position to do anything other than restrict movement and protect what's already been put into place.

Until the real experts are brought in - and Thailand has them - and then actually LISTENED TO, and their advice followed, things are not going to change. More than one has basically said, "Open the gates, take down the temporary barriers and Let The Water Flow!" Yes, it will flood BKK for a while, but it will be much less than what it will be if they continue to try and block/divert it, and it will be over with for everyone much quicker.

I've heard people say in the "other" paper things such as: "I don't care about what happens in the provinces, Bangkok must be saved at all costs! Bangkok IS Thailand!". These people really need to come down from their penthouse, or out of their mansion, and get a look at the real world. They fail to realize that without the provinces, without the food and work force that comes from those provinces, Bangkok could not survive. Bangkok is Bangkok, it is NOT Thailand.

Dear 1voice

I think I know you from "that other newspaper" and I recall amny very sensible posts there from your side.

This is why I am very surprised to read posts like this from you.

I am all on your side in the analysis of more than the current government making heaps of mistakes (adding to corruptiom, neglecting laws of nature and physics, "mai pen rai" etc), that were leading up to this point.

And NO, Bangkok is not Thailand.

But if I am not mistaken, 25% of the Thai population work here, 40% of the money in all of Thailand is accumulated here (industry, business).

I really have a problem seein, what a capitol, submerged in 1,5 meter of stinking contaminated water for 4 to 6 weeks, will actually gain for Thailand?!

If Bangkok comes to a standstill, it is "back to the stoneage" for Thailand. It will hurt EVERYBODY. The people who are suffering now, will suffer even more, because cleaning up a mess in Ayutthaya may take weeks...imagine devastation on a scale like that in Bangkok.

I am all for "Bangkok has to take one for the team", but tearing down floodwalls and allowing water to freely flow into the city? Submerging it for days or weeks? No way, that should be allowed. t would be a disaster of EPIC proportions and no SOE or Royal decree or whatever would help here.

I feel for eveyone, having lost homes or jobs and I think I have not even the slightest idea, how bad it is "out there"...but adding another few millions to that suffering? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me!

Mostly because you have the wrong picture.

I live in Chiang Mai, near the river, so my place was flooded with 1.5 m of water at most (my area is below street level and below river level - worst case scenario). It took 4 days for the water to disappear completely (the top meter of water disappeared by flowing, the rest mostly went into the ground).

Why only 4 days? simple: no dikes were built just below me, so water just flowed. It came in and it went out. Damage: computer, fridge, car and motorbike (All of which would have been prevented with a 1 day advance warning).

Some reflexions:

1. 4-6 weeks for the water to evacuate. This is a misrepresentation of the situation: if the water flows, each individual area would be flooded for 4 days at most, so we are not talking about "Bangkok under water for 4-6 weeks", we are talking about each area having to deal with a couple days of flooding. More for some areas, less for others. Concentrating the pumps to the non flowing areas would render

2. Depth: Most areas would suffer from a few cm of water, not 1.5 m. The main reason why the water is high above Bangkok is that it was prevented from flowing, forcing the water to accumulate. If it weren't for those stupid flood barriers the whole situation would have been over about a week ago.

Either way, allowing the water to flow through Bangkok would spread it on a much larger surface, meaning the depth of the water would be much lower. Probably knee deep at worst.

The government is worried about locals destroying the flood barriers, They should be worried about having those stupid flood barriers in the first place.

And for all the idiots clamoring for a state of emergency... Are you really that keen to have your freedoms removed? What would a state of emergency do that can't be done right now?

I think it would be fair to say that i have more knowledge of brain surgery than you have of hydrology because that approached SFA. I'll make a deal with you - I'll stay away from you with my scalpel and bone-saw if you don't inflict your lack of knowledge on us again.

BTW CM is 300 m above sea level, In BKK you are lucky to be 3m ASL. The problems are a little different.

[DocN]

They would not have to worry so much about people destroying dykes and levees and what not if they declared a state of emergency.

The state of emergency is all ready upon them now all they have to do is recognize it declare it and act on it.

Not going to happen big brother dosen't want it.

I saw some dykes yesterday - I think they were German

Blame us for WW2 and many losses of the English football- team...but we are not responsible for everything!

[chrisinth]

post a picture robbo if u can. it makes it more interesting. how r u doing for food and water?

Broke out the cuppoards under the sink to save them (wooden fronts) Put up the bikes on couch and other stuff. Put some stones under the washing machine.

Got plenty of water and food on the second floor, electricity is there too none on the first.

Keep in mind the water in the streets is wraist deep. I only got about 5 cm in the house its rising every night (not during the day strangely)

As long as my water pump does not submerge and short out i can survive.

I am not going to destroy any flood barriers, i wish BKK nothing ill just want this resolved.

Hi Rob,

Just a quick one; turn off your water supply, disconnect, raise & replumb your water pump if you have access to the fittings & piping. It would at least give you peace of mind; notice your electricity supply is high enough that it doesn't make that an issue. Make sure your filter stays clear as well!!

Best of luck, know how it feels!

Edited October 24, 2011 by metisdead
Reply repaired.

[Fookhaht]

I only got about 5 cm in the house its rising every night (not during the day strangely)

The publicity-conscious city fathers probably think it's best to open the flood gates wider at night. Sweet dreams.

[TAWP]

OMG are they serious, even suhumvit road and silom will be flooded for a month! that's hard to beleive!

Hmm, is the suffering of poor bastards in 1.500 -5000 baht houses less of importance than that of the rich and the business community. The problem of Bangkok and that of many Asian cities is after all that the rich simply never cared. They confiscated the land next to the rivers because it was considered prime property. Thanks to the construction on the land that historically always flooded in the rainy season, people in Ayutthaya are punished ever year when their land or their rented land is flooded to save Bangkok.

It might be time to hire people who really know something about water management. Till now nay ad hoc decisions were made by hi rakes that had good intentions but no clue about what the effects were. For the last 60 years amateurs have managed Thailand's natural resources and looming problems. We all know that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

More people live in the slums in BKK than in your average village - you want to tell them that they are being punished for being evil 'Bangkokians' and therefor - without real purpose - have to be flooded and for sure lose everything? (Richer people will not lose everything, we can secure houses, move things up one floor and take a vacation trip out of the country.)

[elcent]

HMK's advice from many years ago has been widely ignored. You remember the 1/3 of land for water ponds. I have seen it myself, in a more remote village where the locals did it and they keep an eye on the forests surrounding the area too. They don't have that big problems than other villages have even they're right in an area which is prone to flooding. It has become something like a tourist attraction for locals.

Nature doesn't take away without giving anything good in return. When someone mentions about 400 billions for water regulation, forget about them completely. No joking, they are not up for anything good. Instead take this tragedy to find the right spots to make one or two dams and you will also get plenty of clean and green energy in return. A few sacrifices and blessings will be on it's way. No need for dangerous and dirty energy either.

HMK's advice was sound, at the time. Where, especially in Bkk and surrounding provencies, do we allocate the 1/3 of land? The majority of allocated flood plains that were suggested (and used then) are now builtup areas. The new airport springs to mind as being built on one of those areas? Added with the reported worst rain pattern for the past 50 years (this seems to have been forgotten from the equation) it adds to a natural event compromised by human intervention.

I do agree with ignoring the vast amounts stated for water regulation; put up more dams and we will cause so much disruption. Serious question, where would the dams be located (if it ever happened) and what would be the resulting effect to surrounding areas of the water catchment?

A sound feasibility study and not a copy pasted one would give the answer for the right locations. One I can imagine in Ayutthaya province for example. There are some areas that are flooded EVERY year and a feasibility would give the answer and as I said some sacrifices need to be made.

Bangkok could make more Klongs to get through these times. They have filled up too many in recent years.

[robblok]

I only got about 5 cm in the house its rising every night (not during the day strangely)

The publicity-conscious city fathers probably think it's best to open the flood gates wider at night. Sweet dreams.

Im outside BKK.. so the flood gates might be closed at night so it wont go through here.

Personally i think its the pump in the village that wont be operated at night.

[KOZMO]

nobody has heard much of Tea S these last days... Would it be that the messiah has - for a change - no magic remedy to propose to "his" people?

Done.

Chiangrai Times Newspaper

Oct 11 2011

Thaksin Shinawatra Talks about Flood Management

As usual, Mr Thaksin was full of ideas, particularly on how to solve Thailand's chronic water problems.

During the interview, he called for the government to invest in an integrated water management system to permanently solve inundation and drought problems.

Thaksin estimated such a system would cost up to 400 billion baht

Continues:

http://www.chiangrai.../news/3053.html

gee, isn't that the amount he stole from the thai people?

[ramrod711]

Flood barriers off limits

Government worried about locals destroying embankments

Alternative Headline:

Flood barriers seemingly not off limits

Government worried about Government MP's destroying embankments

"Pheu Thai MP Keng Karun was responsible for demolition of a 1 kilometre section of clay wall near an intersection where Prapa Canal meets Chaeng Wattana Road, letting in flood water, Pak Kret district chief Wisit Phuangphet alleged yesterday.

Karun allegedly deployed five backhoes to destroy the wall at around 2am yesterday, claiming that it caused a number of villagers' home to be flooded. He initially threatened to destroy the section a few hours earlier but gave up after Deputy Prime Minister Yongyuth Wichaidit and Pheu Thai MP Natthawut Saikua talked him out of it."

http://www.nationmul...r-30168279.html

all of this flooding is the work of the democrats according to that widely acclaimed expert on almost everything; our old friend jatuporn