Flood-Hit Thailand Declines Offer Of Help: US Navy

[samjaidee]

Top priority for US is to get our troops and equipment out of Iraq and back home so Navy has other things to do and perhaps Thailand is being sensitive to those commitments but we would help anyway.

I hope Thailand gets through this OK. Its just a lot of polluted water. However, the solution to pollution is dilution so it won't be as bad as it otherwise would be without the massive rains.

The ships are now on their way to Japan so your argument about Iraq doesn't have any relevance. Sorry.

[ElVez]

It makes sense for the Thai military to refuse aid because it would be a major loss of face for outside military help to come and do a far better job with superior logistics/equipment involved.

Plus they are probably planning on instituting a coup sometime down the road and foreign military presence would complicate things.

The Thai military relies on the US military for equipment, training, and other support. They have 0 friends in the current government. Why would the Thai military piss off their good friend and benefactor the US military with such an insult. The US and every other government can see how corrupt and singleminded this government is to bring back the criminal, Dr. Thaksin and restore his wealth and power. Your theory requires an awful lot of ifs, perhaps, and probablys. You lose.

1. Why is it an insult to the US military if their help offer is declined?

2. I don't go into coup speculation, but there is some cake to win for those who handled the flood the best in the eyes of the public. That is something the Thai army is aiming for. Why insult them and claim they cannot handle it alone? They are on the ground, doing their job and can fly helicopters for rescue missions.

[DocN]

I don't see where all the hypocritical comments are coming from. Have the E.U. nations offered any help at all?

Maybe Brits can send pompous ass David Beckham over to wag his willy at Thai tv cameras.

The French can send Sarkozy and his sideshow model wife.

The Germans can send their ladyboy female PM over to entertain us at a cabaret.

Until E.U. nations offer anything (at all) then shut up with criticizing the U.S.

I think a few dutchmen showed up and looked at some dykes in between trips to soi cowboy.

Please remember the the EU nations are still upset about the out come of World War 2

They need aid again from America and anyone else.

Oh Harry of Pattaya

stop living in your dreamworld past.

The EU have offered help already.

[Mitker]

No, I am serious the invoice typically would read as follows: Helicopter time = @ US$11,350. per hour x 50 = US$ 567,500 ---- 300 mud shovels (US army issue) @ US$200 x 300 = US$60,000 --- etc.... etc... the prices the US government charge is outrageous so if the Thai Government and authorities can just about manage on their own its far better than accepting help. its like "with friends like these who need enemies"?

In comparison when the Thai army or navy runs a bell helicopter for one hour the cost is set at around Baht 45,000 (US$ 1,459) See the difference?

What has been seen for sure is what happened to 3 Thai army helicopters in a row a couple of months ago.

Budget must include maintenance costs. And maintenance budget must go to... well, maintenance.

[LomSak27]

Good god

So Thailand does not want US help at this point - It is their decision end of story..........they should be dealing with their own problems. Nice that the US offered.

As for the conspiracy theories and helecopter invoices <deleted>

[rijit]

If this aid offer friom the USA was free then it was plainly stupid to turn it down, but if it were to cost Thailand or there were strings attached to it then that puts the OFFER

in a whole different light, any one know any details?

[NanLaew]

But there's loads of water here already. That's the main problem. Why on earth would Thailand want more?

Is the "loads of water" of which you speak of drinkable and proximate?

That's usually a problem during a flood.

" A Thai company that distributes drinking water across the city sent out an SMS to customers announcing deliveries had been halted because of the crisis."

http://www.huffingto..._n_1026351.html

That's what I thought.

Every comment that NanLaew has made in this topic has made him sound like a Troll

I disagree somewhat.

I read some of his comments as ;

Why is it a disaster just now ( like why it wasn't a disaster 2-3 months ago, as truthfully it was, also why is it a disaster only now, when Bangkok is on the verge of drowning, and not before. )

Thanks! You get my drift despite the fact that we may not be totally in agreement.

Thanks for those that reckon I am troll. Out of debate and bottled water are we?

[Just1Voice]

There were news stories last week, and I will have to summarize from memory, that said the U.S. had about 20 helicopters available at Don Muang. The PM stated they would fall under the supervision of the Thai Air Force Commander.

The U.S. said they would provide up to 85 more if needed and requested in the coming weeks. Not only could they be used for rescue and supply drops, but for heavy lifting to place flood barriers, sand bags, etc.

The Air Force Commander stated that everyone that need rescue or evacuation had already been taken care of. He stated many people were staying in place, and that they could be supplied with trucks and boats, helicopters are not necessary. He also stated that it was too dangerous to fly so many helicopters at the same time. Unbelievable!

I was surprised there was not much reaction to this on T.V. at the time. Now it is a major topic. Soon after there were stories of not enough boats with motors to reach the stranded population.

You are somewhat correct. Originally it was 6 U.S. Marine Blackhawks, with 20 more on standby if needed.

[OzMick]

I would be entirely unsurprised if the agenda behind this alleged rejection was to further undermine the current government. Of course the US government would never interfere like that, so maybe I am being paranoid. Possibly the Thais looked at the US efforts in Katrina and said "Thanks, but no thanks"?

BTW, if you want to look for examples of government's rejecting needed aid, look no further than the USA:

Katrina aid from Cuba? No thanks, says U.S. America welcomes foreign help, except from an old Cold War foe

http://www.msnbc.msn...thanks-says-us/

That was an offer of 1100 urgently needed English speaking doctors for Katrina. Hate to break it to you, but Thailand is far from the only nation that is worried about 'face'.

I hesitate to criticise the US but at times they are not too clever and overweening in their assessments. During WW2 many sailors lost their lives thanks to the US not installing a convoy system and operating a blackout along their eastern seaboard, many aircraft and their crews were lost when making escorted daylight raids on Germany without fighter cover, the Mulberry harbour that was allocated to them for the invasion of Europe was smashed up and made unusable because they laid out only half the anchors recommended. All of these happened because they just wouldn't listen to Brit advice. Compare Westmoreland's tactics in Vietnam with those of Templer's In Malaya and look at the outcome of those situations. This is not an attempt to bad mouth the US, I have worked in that country on three separate occasions and have several American friends, but loss of face and downright pigheadedness are not exclusively Thai traits.

On a lighter note one thing that the US Army excels at is creating and developing a black market, Hollywood even made films about that. Maybe the powers in Thailand wanted all the cream for themselves?.

<deleted> what has WWII got to do with aid from a nuclear aircraft carrier?

Hollywood has made films about many things, on occasion they tend to exaggerate - a goodly proportion of the Thai population is scared shitless over "2012".

BTW the FF worked.

[ElVez]

Also, those who say that US always want something in return, i remember last year, in Sarnia,Ontario, Canada. There had a massive snowstorm and many people were stuck in their car on the highway. You know what, Canadian and American army were there to help, without asking for anything in exchange. This is not about loosing the face, this is about friendship and we, Canada, do the same when something happen in the US.

It is clear that this government can not handle the situation. Also not good for relations between those 2 countries.

Imagine if the Canadian military had dared to say "thank you for the offer, but we can handle the situation alone." that they have enough manpower and their helicopters are in the air all day on rescue missions. having a foreign speaking pilots in another fleet of helicopters around and providing the logistics for them could make things actually more complicated.

Why is that no good for the relations between those two countries. The Thai army has no issues with the US.

Why the ex navy seals of this forum are a) offended when the Thais decline the offer for help and thinks it's US bashing? and why turning to the worst insults just because someone said they don't need your help and can do it alone?

That are definitely not signs of great friendship.

[rijit]

Ahh i was replying to a link from a different thread, just refreshed and got loads more info!!

[SICHONSTEVE]

ARE you serious? United States invade Thailand? thats just plain crazy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes i agree Mr Abhisit should be back as MP ,or if necessary have a coalition government like Israel. Both party leaders share the PM post and take turns as the senior PM each year. I seems to work for them.

The fact that I was being more than a tad sarcastic seems to have escaped you!!! I was basing this on the daft logic and paranoia adopted by Thaksin's/red shirts concerns that implementing an "emergency decree" would involve bringing in the army and increasing the chances of a military coup!!!. As if the flooding of a third of Thailand with all the suffering that that brings with it would be the appropriate time to carry out an army coup!!! Think about it!!

I assume you mean prime minister. Can you envisage Pheu Thai SHARING the PM's post with the Democrats!!!!! This is arguably more laughable than my "tongue in cheek" take on the US invading Thailand!!. Having said that, Thailand didn't want any interference from the US, UN or any other international body in the border transgressions with Kampuchea, because of past run-ins a century or so ago with France and England and their eternal paranoia that everybody wants a piece of Thailand and they are suspicious of everyone and everything that is non-Thai!!

There is their rediculous "loss of face/fear of dependancy on others attitude as well. I don't see this an issue for 'ordinary day matters' but when they are unwilling to change this flawed attitude in matters of urgency (life and death) then it a problem in my mind and plain wrong - akin to abandoning the people!!.

Surely, their imagined loss of face over something is less important than the loss of some lives don't you think?????

[NanLaew]

If this is true, it is criminal.

Puts these "face" junkies in the same box as Burma's military dictators who claimed their flood victims didn't need international help because they were very resourceful and could eat frogs.

LOL. That's what we were doing 2 months ago in Isaan after the farm washed away. I doubt the Bangkok panic-meisters would know what to do once the last packet of mama noddles gets snapped up at the local 7-eleven.

[ccarbaugh]

I always thought they perhaps refused assistance because then the world will get a close up look at distribution of supplies, etc. and it would make it more difficult to pilfer and resell supplies?

A couple of days ago, I read that the U.S. had donated $15 M - (450 Million Baht in "Flood-Aid.") I have spoken to many Thais and, so far, not one was aware of it. We can only hope that some of that 450 million baht will get to those that need it.

[BuckarooBanzai]

Bucholz,

The point is that they have not rejected help from the US if a US ship is providing help. It's futile arguing over a detail when the country is facing disaster

are you basing you case on one tweet? The only aid from the US so far, in the press, is a few million baht and some marines delivering empty sandbags. When you have more than a tweet, please share your source. Thanks

Already explained back in post #272

Misleading tweet - The Mustin is just here for a visit, not flood relief.

https://www.facebook...150420175288615

As to the marines helping who knows who they are? Operating out of Pattaya probably.

[Orac]

Bucholz,

The point is that they have not rejected help from the US if a US ship is providing help. It's futile arguing over a detail when the country is facing disaster

are you basing you case on one tweet? The only aid from the US so far, in the press, is a few million baht and some marines delivering empty sandbags. When you have more than a tweet, please share your source. Thanks

Already explained back in post #272

Misleading tweet - The Mustin is just here for a visit, not flood relief.

https://www.facebook...150420175288615

As to the marines helping who knows who they are? Operating out of Pattaya probably.

I beleive the tweet concerned was from the US Ambassador to Thailand and therefore carries a bit more credability than most tweets, even if she did get the vessel name wrong!

[Buchholz]

If this aid offer friom the USA was free then it was plainly stupid to turn it down

U.S. Navy humanitarian aid to a foreign country during a disaster is provided to that country at no cost to that country.

.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Buchholz

[theanimaster]

Of course Thailand should refuse help! How else can Thaksin claim all the glory and credit for helping out with the relief operations with his bleeding heart for the victims?

[bangkokrick]

Bucholz,

The point is that they have not rejected help from the US if a US ship is providing help. It's futile arguing over a detail when the country is facing disaster

are you basing you case on one tweet? The only aid from the US so far, in the press, is a few million baht and some marines delivering empty sandbags. When you have more than a tweet, please share your source. Thanks

So what are you basing your case on? The original tweet came from the US Embassy Bangkok

[RAM8]

I think the authorities have done a great job considering the scale of this flood. It was a good effort to keep the water at bay and everybody got involved and have been helping each other out. Around the country donations for the relief effort are pouring in and the Thai people definitely have a handle on this. I doubt there will be much more loss of life. It's great to see how people come together in times of crisis. The spirit of the Thai people is the reason I love Thailand.

To all you cranky expats, have you donated any Baht? If not, do so.

[JRinger]

I always thought they perhaps refused assistance because then the world will get a close up look at distribution of supplies, etc. and it would make it more difficult to pilfer and resell supplies?

A couple of days ago, I read that the U.S. had donated $15 M - (450 Million Baht in "Flood-Aid.") I have spoken to many Thais and, so far, not one was aware of it. We can only hope that some of that 450 million baht will get to those that need it.

Normally, I'm not a gambling man, but to this I would bet 'very heavy' against it.

[stopthegreed]

Stupid yes, without a doubt. Will it cost lives, Yes without a doubt. Will disease spread? yes without a doubt.

I understand the Thai mentality of loosing face, but this decision will cost people their livlihoods, and some of them their lives.

What I dont understand is the turmoil this country has gone through over the last couple of years, has not affected the Thai Baht one bit, can anyone explain that?

[bangkokrick]

ACSBKK ACS Bangkok RT @kristiekenney: Proud of US sailors fm USS Mustain. Donations, working w kids, flying helo missions over Thai flood areas.

[gbswales]

What part of the word "disaster" do they not understand??

As long as I live I will never understand Thai reluctance, at any level, to openly seek help

[BuckarooBanzai]

Bucholz,

The point is that they have not rejected help from the US if a US ship is providing help. It's futile arguing over a detail when the country is facing disaster

are you basing you case on one tweet? The only aid from the US so far, in the press, is a few million baht and some marines delivering empty sandbags. When you have more than a tweet, please share your source. Thanks

Already explained back in post #272

Misleading tweet - The Mustin is just here for a visit, not flood relief.

https://www.facebook...150420175288615

As to the marines helping who knows who they are? Operating out of Pattaya probably.

I beleive the tweet concerned was from the US Ambassador to Thailand and therefore carries a bit more credability than most tweets, even if she did get the vessel name wrong!

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150420175288615 try again

The link originally provided did not work but is a link to the Mustin. The link above works. The embassy tweet was not incorrect, just misleading.

Originally was a https link which did not work the standard http link works fine.

Edited October 25, 2011 by BuckarooBanzai

[Buchholz]

ACSBKK ACS Bangkok RT @kristiekenney: Proud of US sailors fm USS Mustain. Donations, working w kids, flying helo missions over Thai flood areas.

That's terrific of the crew of the USS Mustin to provide assistance.

It's a shame that the several hundred-fold increase in assistance possible from the USS George Washington Carrier Task Force 70 was declined.

.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Buchholz

[smedly]

If this isn't absolute proof of their bona fide stupidity, nothing is. It's as if they want people to die.

Looks to me like (from another thread here) that thaksin wants people to believe he saved the people with his efforts, having outside help would dilute his efforts, I must be wrong

[bangkokrick]

ACSBKK ACS Bangkok RT @kristiekenney: Proud of US sailors fm USS Mustain. Donations, working w kids, flying helo missions over Thai flood areas.

That's terrific of the crew of the USS Mustin to provide assistance.

It's a shame that the several hundred-fold increase in assistance possible from the USS George Washington Carrier Task Force 70 was declined.

.

You are arguing with yourself. I already said many times that the Thais should have accepted US assistance. Yes it is a shame, but not unexpected by the novice PM.

[Buchholz]

ACSBKK ACS Bangkok RT @kristiekenney: Proud of US sailors fm USS Mustain. Donations, working w kids, flying helo missions over Thai flood areas.

That's terrific of the crew of the USS Mustin to provide assistance.

It's a shame that the several hundred-fold increase in assistance possible from the USS George Washington Carrier Task Force 70 was declined.

You are arguing with yourself. I already said many times that the Thais should have accepted US assistance. Yes it is a shame, but not unexpected by the novice PM.

I'm not "arguing," clarifying the scope and potential is my aim.

The real shame is that clone PM declined assistance that could have helped her country tremendously.

.

[rametindallas]

I always thought they perhaps refused assistance because then the world will get a close up look at distribution of supplies, etc. and it would make it more difficult to pilfer and resell supplies?

A couple of days ago, I read that the U.S. had donated $15 M - (450 Million Baht in "Flood-Aid.") I have spoken to many Thais and, so far, not one was aware of it. We can only hope that some of that 450 million baht will get to those that need it.

Normally, I'm not a gambling man, but to this I would bet 'very heavy' against it.

I think I saw a figure of Bt. 30 million