Plan Mulled To Cut Channel Through Bangkok Roads

[Murgatroyd]

The clearing or cutting accross Bang Na Trat Rd has been agreed on and will be completed within 3 days - is what I read in the Newspaper.

If they channel the water down there it will have a huge impact as well. I do think that this is where the water wants to go. It looks like they want to channel it to either side of the airport..

I'm sure they can dig accross Bang Na Trat Road with out too much problem. They use those huge metal plates etc.. a lot of people live down there as well.

I used to live in a condo development that was built in the marsh area starting on the Bangkok side of Bang Na Trad Rd (Srinakarin area). This seemed to be where all the water ended up after flooding. always water

- snakes even. I'll bet the capacity of the marshes has diminished. I hope pumps can save the day + future engineering.

There are already 10 klongs or waterways that cross under the Bang Na Trat Highway between Bang Na and Bang Bo, you can check them out on a map.

None of them are rising yet, and no floodwater is streaming down them towards the sea. By all means dredge them and make it easier for them to move the water south. That would be a productive thing to be getting on with, and in some areas is already under way. Even though I have a vested interest insomuchas I live in Bang Bo on the south side of the Bang Na Trat highway I still think the plan to cut through the road is ludicrous. To be effective one cut wouldn't be of much use at all, multiple cuts would have to be made which would disrupt traffic on what is an extremely busy road. I,ve travelled along the Bang Na Trat highway twice in the last week, and there's no evidence of water piling up on the north side.

As for the corporations, they exist to make profits for themselves, and I strongly suspect that corporate motives will always turn out to be self serving on close inspection.

Edited October 28, 2011 by Murgatroyd

[SantiSuk]

Next plan. Issue the remaining millions with straws. Right folks ... altogether now ... suck .... turn downstream ... blow. That should speed up the water nicely.

[NanLaew]

Amazing Thailand. Get worse flooding since 50 years ago, wait until top Toyota guy gather experts to find solutions.

Isn't Toyota a car manufacturer ? How come this guy has a role in here ? Oh wait, money and power, ok got it.

Gee lucien, who do you think has been paying for the construction of all these highways, motorways, ring-roads and pretty much all the quality roadways in Thailand these past 15-20 years?

[lounger]

This was first brought up in the news a week or so ago. And the government still can't make a decision?

He suggested that the best solution would be to remove the floodwalls along Canals 9 to 13 and focus on pumping water out at 50 million cubic metres per second.

50 million cubic metres per second!! Won't take too long then

The only data I have heard is that Bhumipol dam holds back 12 billion Tonnes ( cubic metres), The flood is 17 billion tonnes, The three rivers move 40 million per day between them (sic). source channel 78 Tan TV. or was it ch99?

Now we have another: pumps shifting 50 million per second. Well, with promises like that, I guess he will get the job.

Edited October 28, 2011 by lounger

[Justaword]

50 million cabic metres per second?

Can anyone imagine the size of such a pump?

It's probably a mistake or bad translation. The figure of 50 million cubic meters per DAY is far more conceivable with a relatively small amount of pumps. More or less the quantity that the Chinese sent.

[Justaword]

Also, these roads are protecting eastern Bangkok from eastern floodwaters not the northern waters. If you open these roads up, going by the elevation map, these eastern waters will drain into Bangkok via Klong San Saep and Klong Prawet, not out of it to Ban Pakong river.It will effectively flood inner Bangkok, Suvarnabhumi (because those floodwalls won't hold), and the Bang Chan and Lat Krabang industrial estates (any car manufacturers there?). However, it will drain the Ban Pakong rive as well (because it's currently at a higher lever to the klongs feeding into it).This will keep the two Toyota manufacturing plants in Chachongsao nice and dry. Coincidence?cheersDM

Toyota is shutting down some US plants by lack of parts made in TH. If your estimation about the flow of the released water is correct.....

[mallyrd]

This idea is preposterous. To be "studying" a spur of the moment plan just days ago proposed by Toyota to "cut" through five major roads is totally mind boggling. This is the best case of "thrashing about" that you could imagine. Kill off everything around, but let's make sure that Toyota gets back in business. The Japanese probably gave this Thai partner the "or else" and he's actually proposing it to the government. How much disaster bakup and recovery planning did Toyota do? Let's take a look at their plan for flood and disaster management. How much effort did Toyota invest in educating its employees on flood safety, diseases, electrocution risk? Let's get that plan approved and, protect Toyota's interest and see how many more Thais can get Cholera, Dengue, Leptostirosis, Typhoid..etc. Maybe Toyota will have a new line of ambulances, medical vehicles, evacuation vehicles, and trucks to save all the people they killed off in this preposterous last minute thrashing about proposal to save their business. Shame on them.

What a load of nonsense.

[Justaword]

There was discussion of putting large drainage tunnels through Bangkok. If this is done it obviously needs to be under existing roads. If this emergency cut is done with the idea of permanent solution being part of it, then it makes some sense. It is clear there is not close to enough flow through to prevent a repeat of what we have now. So anything is helpful in the long run.

Nope. The mentioned tunnels are dug by tunneling machines....

[Lite Beer]

Govt to demolish a road section for drainage

A section of a road in eastern Bangkok will be demolished to divert northern floodwater to drain into the sea via Samut Prakan, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said on Friday.

The demolition will be done on a trial basis before deciding whether this would help speed up the drainage, Yingluck said.

She said she did not remember which of the five roads in eastern Bangkok was targetted.

-- The Nation 2011-10-28

[exalll]

Govt to demolish a road section for drainage

A section of a road in eastern Bangkok will be demolished to divert northern floodwater to drain into the sea via Samut Prakan, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said on Friday.

The demolition will be done on a trial basis before deciding whether this would help speed up the drainage, Yingluck said.

She said she did not remember which of the five roads in eastern Bangkok was targetted.

These three sentences sum her up beautifully!

[newermonkey]

Govt to demolish a road section for drainage

A section of a road in eastern Bangkok will be demolished to divert northern floodwater to drain into the sea via Samut Prakan, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said on Friday.

The demolition will be done on a trial basis before deciding whether this would help speed up the drainage, Yingluck said.

She said she did not remember which of the five roads in eastern Bangkok was targetted.

-- The Nation 2011-10-28

W hat will happen to the people?

[ExpatDave]

My Wife and her family's house would be put at risk if they do this. Her parents refuse to leave the house and my Wife won't leave Bangkok without them.

So don't give me this "give it a try" "maybe it will work" B.S.

Toyota has nothing to lose and everything to gain by this.

What about the people who have nothing to gain?

[epicstuff]

There must be detailed engineering plan with elevation and construction details for every square inch of BBK. Can’t they make a computer generated model or even a real model to simulate where the water will flow if they make various changes.? Surely they know most of the factors , ie water volume , flow rates, contours and construction…etc

And is in not possible to drill under the roads and insert big pipes connecting one side of the road with the other, that would do the same thing for water flow but make it more controllable without cutting off infrastructure ??? maybe it can be used again In the future.

[EyesWideOpen]

You people are incredible! Not one single positive comment about the situation... You should try it , instead of bitching and moaning about the country that you have chosen to live in. If you can't make a difference, either move the F*** out of there or contribute. It's pretty clear..Whinging should have been left back wherever it was you came from...

As soon as the government does something intelligent and creative, I will be the first to applaud it. The failure of this government regarding flood response , is to the Thai people , many of whom have or will lose their lives . They are the ones who should be angry. We as foreigners , leading our parallel lives here, can only look on in amazement.....

Regarding the idea of blowing up / or digging up a main road to drain water is an interesting one. Might have been a good idea two weeks ago. But proposing it the day before the main flooding come is a bit bizarre.

Edited October 28, 2011 by EyesWideOpen

[sirchai]

There must be detailed engineering plan with elevation and construction details for every square inch of BBK. Can't they make a computer generated model or even a real model to simulate where the water will flow if they make various changes.? Surely they know most of the factors , ie water volume , flow rates, contours and construction…etc

And is in not possible to drill under the roads and insert big pipes connecting one side of the road with the other, that would do the same thing for water flow but make it more controllable without cutting off infrastructure ??? maybe it can be used again In the future.

Have you ever tried 'to drill" under the roads of Amsterdam? Would be the same problem, but your idea sounds really good. But reality isn't always good.....

[retiringinthailand]

"However, Seri Suparathit, an expert in public disasters from Rangsit University, yesterday expressed opposition to the plan, saying it would not work as the water level in the eastern Bang Pakong River was higher than that in Bangkok.

He suggested that the best solution would be to remove the floodwalls along Canals 9 to 13 and focus on pumping water out at 50 million cubic metres per second."

Someone has a massive pump!

Do you know how mush water 50 million cubic metres per second is?

50 million cubic metres per second is a block 368 m long by 368 m wide by 368 m deep.

Now the floods aren't 368 m deep. Let's say they are 1 m deeep. So the area of land that will be pumped in one second is 7,000 m by 7,000 m. (31,251 Rai)

Yes, 7 km x 7 km pumped dry every second.

Pumping that much water would need the electrical power form about 10 power stations!

Sorry for the comment - I'm an engineer and an engineer always has to check the numbers.

[skippybangkok]

50 million cubic meters a second could only be written by a jurno. At that rate the 16 billion would be gone in 5 hours

[animatic]

1319784679[/url]' post='4802190']

1319779285[/url]' post='4801934']

There was discussion of putting large drainage tunnels through Bangkok. If this is done it obviously needs to be under existing roads. If this emergency cut is done with the idea of permanent solution being part of it, then it makes some sense. It is clear there is not close to enough flow through to prevent a repeat of what we have now. So anything is helpful in the long run.

Nope. The mentioned tunnels are dug by tunneling machines....

Tunnels through hills and deep underground yes, that is not what is needed.

Dig down 1-2 stories and pour cement over steel, then build the road back over it.Much of the USA and European subways were done like this. Later deeper tunnels were done under them with stone cutting machines, but for Bangkok that would be under sea level and useless.not neccesary to empty water all year long, just flood season. But EVERY flood season.

[Jawnie]

Frankly, I've seen much too little recognition for how difficult this situation. I am confident that no one here could handle this situation as well as the current Prime Minister. Sure, there have been mistakes. But there comes a time when people need to acknowledge the difficult job she has right now taking care of her country. Everyone could try this simply acknowledgement and expression of support for the PM and Thailand now when it is need the most. It doesn't mean you love her or like her policies and it would only cost a little of your pride.

Edited October 28, 2011 by Jawnie

[animatic]

1319788305[/url]' post='4802332']

1319787312[/url]' post='4802292']

You people are incredible! Not one single positive comment about the situation... You should try it , instead of bitching and moaning about the country that you have chosen to live in. If you can't make a difference, either move the F*** out of there or contribute. It's pretty clear..Whinging should have been left back wherever it was you came from...

As soon as the government does something intelligent and creative, I will be the first to applaud it. The failure of this government regarding flood response , is to the Thai people , many of whom have or will lose their lives . They are the ones who should be angry. We as foreigners , leading our parallel lives here, can only look on in amazement.....

Regarding the idea of blowing up / or digging up a main road to drain water is an interesting one. Might have been a good idea two weeks ago. But proposing it the day before the main flooding come is a bit bizarre.

Well forcasting exactly where the wall of water will find it's weakest impediments to breach is no doubt a seat of the pants endevour, hard to say, well in advance, we'll cut this road off because we think the water will like it. Harder still the politicall to do so with no danger in view

Laws fg fluid dynamics remain knowable, but the real life variables are wait and see, then move QUICKLY.

[FarangKenStine]

Any word if they will cut a trench across Soi Cowboy? That would affect the GDP and tourism.

[whybother]

Tunnels through hills and deep underground yes, that is not what is needed.

Dig down 1-2 stories and pour cement over steel, then build the road back over it.Much of the USA and European subways were done like this. Later deeper tunnels were done under them with stone cutting machines, but for Bangkok that would be under sea level and useless.not neccesary to empty water all year long, just flood season. But EVERY flood season.

Any tunnel underground in Bangkok would be under sea level. That's why the use pumps everywhere.

[OldgitTom]

"Interesting that the private sector is the one to come up with the plan."

Even more interesting that decades of let-it-rip, free entrerprise capitalism has left BKK w/out adequate infrastructure. Where were all you hootin' & hollerin' neocon Reaganites, Thatcherites, & Friedmanites when they were filling in BKK canals to make roads, or to build hi-rise development speculations? Private enterprise = public squalor. You lot created the sh*t, now you want to blame s/body else.

This situation is a great tragedy for Thailand & its poor in particular. Quite typically, the conservative farang posters can't wait to blame it on Yingluck, who has been in power very briefly. Get it thru your thick skulls that the Redshirts do not control the weather, nor does democracy emerge from the barrels of army guns.

I suspect many of you made your money in the West, during the rip-it-off neocon years, then skedaddled to Thailand with your loot to avoid the unpleasant local consequences. So welcome back to hard reality. What you sent around, has come around. Enjoy, & stop bitchin'. OGT

[DizietSma]

First they claimed breaking the roads would drain northern floodwaters (which are nowhere near these roads) into the Pakong river (which is full and at a higher level than the Bangkok klongs). Now they claim breaking the roads with a minor 5m breach, will drain northern floodwaters (which are still nowhere near these roads) into Samut Prakarn.

The PM can't even remember which road she's demolishing on the orders of Toyota which will flood Bangkok with the eastern floodwaters (which are near these roads).

There is nothing she or her government have done that I can acknowledge in a positive light. They're all useless.

And you can't "test" it by demolishing one road that forms the floodwall. That's a breach and we'll all flood.

Sure, we're all keyboard critics here on TV, but we have a right to be, because it is obvious that Yingluk Shinawatra does not have a single clue about what to do, and neither do her AWOL cabinet (anyone seen Chalerm lately?).

If it works, great - I'll eat my hat and she's a genius. But if it doesn't then the situation here will get a lot worse and you will be able to blame two things: Yingluk Shinawatra and Toyota.

[swerver]

This idea is preposterous. To be "studying" a spur of the moment plan just days ago proposed by Toyota to "cut" through five major roads is totally mind boggling. This is the best case of "thrashing about" that you could imagine. Kill off everything around, but let's make sure that Toyota gets back in business. The Japanese probably gave this Thai partner the "or else" and he's actually proposing it to the government. How much disaster bakup and recovery planning did Toyota do? Let's take a look at their plan for flood and disaster management. How much effort did Toyota invest in educating its employees on flood safety, diseases, electrocution risk? Let's get that plan approved and, protect Toyota's interest and see how many more Thais can get Cholera, Dengue, Leptostirosis, Typhoid..etc. Maybe Toyota will have a new line of ambulances, medical vehicles, evacuation vehicles, and trucks to save all the people they killed off in this preposterous last minute thrashing about proposal to save their business. Shame on them.

What a JOKE.

Motor vehicle manufacturers on the job again.

Takes an old – some one on the way to centenarian - person to remember after WW II finished and motor vehicle manufacturers were looking for business to replace their wartime manufacturing business – this time American – coming to Bangkok filling in the klongs like Sukhumvit, Petchbury, Silom to name but a few and asphalt them all over. How in the hell go to work now with all the water passenger transport gone. No problem your friendly ever present American, like Chrysler said, we will bring Chrysler Finance and all you people can buy cars through our finance company. Of course GMAC watching the whole charade from the sideline also jumped into the fray financing GM vehicles. So BKK was covered with GM Bus Company screaming Jimmy (GM) Diesel engine busses. While filling in the klongs they forgot to first lay in storm drain pipes to take the place of the klong. That job was left for the Thais 30-years later at Thai taxpayer expense.

All the advice I read about now in the year 2011 amounts to nothing more than, toooooo little, tooooo late. Hundred years ago Homan van der Heide was brought over from Java were he worked as hydraulics engineer terracing/irrigation rice fields, by King Chulalongkorn. His advice – stepping on toes of Thais ripping off Thailand – by the BORISAT in the Rangsit area got him nothing but a persona non grata from his friend King Chulalongkorn canceling his Thai Visa and leave the country in 48-hour.

When the rains are gone it will be back to as normal, looking at it as they have done for the past hundred years and doing nothing, or as minimal as possible. LOL in LOS.

Edited October 28, 2011 by metisdead
Font reset, use default forum font when posting.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted. Please stay on the topic.

[JRinger]

"However, Seri Suparathit, an expert in public disasters from Rangsit University, yesterday expressed opposition to the plan, saying it would not work as the water level in the eastern Bang Pakong River was higher than that in Bangkok.

He suggested that the best solution would be to remove the floodwalls along Canals 9 to 13 and focus on pumping water out at 50 million cubic metres per second."

Someone has a massive pump!

Do you know how mush water 50 million cubic metres per second is?

50 million cubic metres per second is a block 368 m long by 368 m wide by 368 m deep.

Now the floods aren't 368 m deep. Let's say they are 1 m deeep. So the area of land that will be pumped in one second is 7,000 m by 7,000 m. (31,251 Rai)

Yes, 7 km x 7 km pumped dry every second.

Pumping that much water would need the electrical power form about 10 power stations!

Sorry for the comment - I'm an engineer and an engineer always has to check the numbers.

7,000 meters x 7,000 meters = 49 million square meters divided by 1600 sqm (one rai) = 30,625 Rai ...only a difference of 626 rai. (from your 31,251 rai)

I'm not an engineer so I could be wrong...

Edited October 28, 2011 by JRinger

[bkkjames]

Jawnie: the majority of people on here care for and support thailand-unfare to group the current pm in a love all or none kind of statement.

Two weeks ago it was propellers to the rescue, today its save toyota. Face it, the game is over.

Too many vested interests getting in the way-they knew this was coming for about a month now and now plan to dig up roads they don't know the names of.

[siampolee]

One little detail puzzles me regarding the scheme to channel water away by cutting the road. The road is cut and presumably there will be a reinforced gully or culvert to channel the water away over or through the cut road,?.

However what is going to happen once the water leaves its channeled course and where will it flow and what further damage will be done by this method ?

Open tap, water pours into bath, water goes down the plughole no big problem.,

Open tap, break bath base water flows all over the bathroom and subsequently the house causing great damage.

The end result to bathroom and the house is rather like the crackpot idea the Toyata bosses and their money minders are advocating..

Edited October 28, 2011 by siampolee

[Justaword]

There was discussion of putting large drainage tunnels through Bangkok. If this is done it obviously needs to be under existing roads. If this emergency cut is done with the idea of permanent solution being part of it, then it makes some sense. It is clear there is not close to enough flow through to prevent a repeat of what we have now. So anything is helpful in the long run.

Nope. The mentioned tunnels are dug by tunneling machines....

Tunnels through hills and deep underground yes, that is not what is needed.

Dig down 1-2 stories and pour cement over steel, then build the road back over it.Much of the USA and European subways were done like this. Later deeper tunnels were done under them with stone cutting machines, but for Bangkok that would be under sea level and useless.not neccesary to empty water all year long, just flood season. But EVERY flood season.

Well, try to Google "Construction of BMA Water Drainage Tunnel", and " Phra Khanong water pumping station".....

Edited October 28, 2011 by Justaword