Anger Rises In Flooded Bangkok As Centre Stays Dry

[Gweiloman]

It surely would be more fair.

But realistically, do you think they can take the chance of a "controlled" flooding in the zones of high economical importance?

Central Bangkok is not as flat as it might seem. As a foot of water in one part might mean a whole lot more in other parts.

I'm happy I'm not the one who has to take this kind of decision. I feel it's something like: should we flood heavily 1 million people or lightly 10 million? It's one of these "Would you rather lose an arm or a leg?" questions. There isn't a right and a wrong answer.

Yes how do you balance.

You need to fix your house with a flood 1 foot or 4 feet ,

but if your job is dead with 1 foot

and still there with 4,

you can still pay for fixes.

The 300-400 BILLION baht needed for the repairs in government and loans will need to come from somewhere.

Which engine of commerce will you 'save or lose' to 'be fair'?

I agree I would be angry as a wet hornet if my place were flooded,

but more angry at who caused the flooding to begin with,

than those who have to manage it by the seat of their pants on the fly.

Now if all three things are mis-managed by the same crew in serial FROC-ups,

then I would be in a mood to throw the bums out. No confidence votes are

still how it's done using Democratic means, and legitimate street rage at

government ineptitude is still one of the ways those votes are lost by governments.

2.4 million people displaced by not properly managing this water for 2+ months.

No wonder the spin-miesters are in full backpedal mode.

I agree I would be angry as a wet hornet if my place were flooded, but more angry at who caused the flooding to begin with...

Good remark, and a good question: WHO caused the flooding to begin with?:

Mother Nature and the denuders of the forests.

[canuckamuck]

When you have nice stuff you protect it from the floods. For the ruling class the buildings in central Bangkok is their nice stuff. So the residential areas are the sandbags they use to protect it.

[Heng]

The rationale of the 'neighbors who want to flood their other neighbors' is kind of like wanting to flood the headquarters of all the banks, the stock exchange, the ports and of course airport so the water can go down a bit and it can all be 'fair.'

[elcent]

the PM signed an order to open the sluice gate affecting the most toxic canal on planet earth, Klong SanSaeb. This could become a very large and dangerous toxic lake.

[tangcoral]

At the beginning, the people trudging through waist deep water clutching the few possessions they could carry were all smiles. Recently though, the smile is gone in many cases, and there have even been angry words to the tv cameras.

IMO, once the immediate crisis is over, the anger will be spilling over into actions, and it's not going to be pretty, especially if the authorities fail to assist those with ruined homes and destroyed/ looted possessions.

I too was impressed with the smiles of those poor souls who were affected by the floods in the early days, I suspect that it's wearing a bit thin by now though.

I live near the centre of Bangkok, Thonglor, and I haven't seen as much as a large puddle, life here is pretty much as normal, I have to admit for feeling a tad guilty. If I thought that sending me some water would totally alleviate the suffering of others I would say "bring it on", but I suspect it's not that simple.

Referring to the two areas you mentioned, the rich has it there way. They dont want this crap in their backyard.

Unfair, but that's how it works here.

Good luck to the poor, as I hope your govt doesn't leave you out in the cold.

[afarang]

How long has this Govt. been in 'power'. ? These rains -Nok10 started before elections and set the tone. 2 causes -(1) the irrigation department, terrified of having no water for the central plains paddy fields irrigation, for their 2nd and 3rd crops, being mindful that these land owners are chinese thais ,and have enormously significant political clout,and the political repurcussions and so refuse to release water from the major dams in advance ,so held water until it was too late ,unsafe to let it go..Then ,no proper planning ,called human intervention, built on land that was a flood plain ,Thonburi. I lived in Bang Phlat, we suffered the 1995 flood. We were under water for 4 months !!. This area ,unbeknowns to me, at the time, was 100% agricultural. 2 metre wide "cropping areas" , 1 metre klongs , on either side- Thousands of rai. From Bang Phlat to Ban Khun Ti En , were purely farm land. What happened? - development , all the klongs were filled in - houses and factories built on top. inadequate drainage systems, so FLOODS. 2011.Surprised? Not me. Thonburi ,, historically , never had bad flooding. Until humans intervened. This flooding has not been the fault of this Govt., rather it has been caused by ALL the previous Govts. Refusing to accept responsibility. And take corrective action

[manarak]

In comparison to the amount of water heading for the sea from the north, the "protected" areas are minuscule. The chances are that if the CBD were allowed to flood, the water levels in the already flooded areas would drop for a day or two and then rise again to where they are now.All that would have been achieved is the destruction of billions (of dollars) in infrastructure, the water supply, historical sites, and the main communications and business hub of the country (including the internet connection to the rest of the world).The rich would not be affected (they never are), because they can afford to be somewhere else, and their insurance will pay for the water damage. As always, it will be the poor and working class that will suffer.And no, I do not live in the city centre, although I haven't been flooded out of my ground floor apartment - yet.

Its blocking the natural flow of water, the fastest route forcing it in higher area's and making them flood even more. If they did not the water would flow faster. I understand them protecting BKK but that does not make it any less painfull here.

They should compensate all those who they sacrifice. Preferably by taxing the BKK people. I dont need a dime but sounds like a fair idea if your sacrificing people getting compensated by who they are sacrificed for. Maybe that will speed things up because when it cost money things can go fast.

As far as taxes are concerned, I think what you propose is already happening. Let's estimate how much tax money is generated by the CBD compared with the flooded residential areas....

[elcent]

In comparison to the amount of water heading for the sea from the north, the "protected" areas are minuscule. The chances are that if the CBD were allowed to flood, the water levels in the already flooded areas would drop for a day or two and then rise again to where they are now.All that would have been achieved is the destruction of billions (of dollars) in infrastructure, the water supply, historical sites, and the main communications and business hub of the country (including the internet connection to the rest of the world).The rich would not be affected (they never are), because they can afford to be somewhere else, and their insurance will pay for the water damage. As always, it will be the poor and working class that will suffer.And no, I do not live in the city centre, although I haven't been flooded out of my ground floor apartment - yet.

Its blocking the natural flow of water, the fastest route forcing it in higher area's and making them flood even more. If they did not the water would flow faster. I understand them protecting BKK but that does not make it any less painfull here.

They should compensate all those who they sacrifice. Preferably by taxing the BKK people. I dont need a dime but sounds like a fair idea if your sacrificing people getting compensated by who they are sacrificed for. Maybe that will speed things up because when it cost money things can go fast.

As far as taxes are concerned, I think what you propose is already happening. Let's estimate how much tax money is generated by the CBD compared with the flooded residential areas....

... and future generations will be enslaved too (900b) ... this is the master plan ... ask me if you want to know more ...

[h90]

Does anyone know what part of Bangkok Yingluck lives in??? Just wondering if her location has anything to do with choice of water run off locations.

the shinatra compound is flooded too.

Source? I read that the water is there but I didn't read about inside.

As well they have many buildings

Always a doubter somewhere. Read my other reply I said it was from her son who is at the same school as mine - any doubts now ?

yes, that is hardly a proof if her son lies as much as she.

[h90]

Does anyone know what part of Bangkok Yingluck lives in??? Just wondering if her location has anything to do with choice of water run off locations.

the shinatra compound is flooded too.

Source? I read that the water is there but I didn't read about inside.

As well they have many buildings

I remember the one on Charoensanitwong

Thaksins house right?

I recall a misleading article which if you take it apart means that at his house there is 1 meter water, but it does NOT say that the water is inside.

And I think the reds would play it big if the water is inside

[Tropicalevo]

My house in the northern Thung Song Hong area of Laksi, Bangkok has been flooded for 11 days now and the water level has risen considerably the past couple of days. It's now above the level that we were able to raise the bigger and heavier items so the damage and loss is increasing every day. No effort has made been to communicate any kind of plan to drain or pump any water of the area and we are getting pretty annoyed now. I'm going to smash some gates soon myself. 1 metre for everybody is better than 3 metres for some.

Totally agree Grippy, fie upon the so called government, the sooner Yingluck goes back to shopping for Louis Vuittons the better!

Well said. And her brother is very quiet. (Dry in Dubai I suppose.)

[h90]

In comparison to the amount of water heading for the sea from the north, the "protected" areas are minuscule. The chances are that if the CBD were allowed to flood, the water levels in the already flooded areas would drop for a day or two and then rise again to where they are now.All that would have been achieved is the destruction of billions (of dollars) in infrastructure, the water supply, historical sites, and the main communications and business hub of the country (including the internet connection to the rest of the world).The rich would not be affected (they never are), because they can afford to be somewhere else, and their insurance will pay for the water damage. As always, it will be the poor and working class that will suffer.And no, I do not live in the city centre, although I haven't been flooded out of my ground floor apartment - yet.

Its blocking the natural flow of water, the fastest route forcing it in higher area's and making them flood even more. If they did not the water would flow faster. I understand them protecting BKK but that does not make it any less painfull here.

They should compensate all those who they sacrifice. Preferably by taxing the BKK people. I dont need a dime but sounds like a fair idea if your sacrificing people getting compensated by who they are sacrificed for. Maybe that will speed things up because when it cost money things can go fast.

As far as taxes are concerned, I think what you propose is already happening. Let's estimate how much tax money is generated by the CBD compared with the flooded residential areas....

... and future generations will be enslaved too (900b) ... this is the master plan ... ask me if you want to know more ...

agree

[elcent]

Thaksins house right?

I recall a misleading article which if you take it apart means that at his house there is 1 meter water, but it does NOT say that the water is inside.

And I think the reds would play it big if the water is inside

What importance does that have to you about this one particular family when the whole city is endangered?

[monkfish]

Has anyone seen the latest images?

Can anyone spot the bottle neck here?

Higher resolution images can be viewed @

http://www.gistda.or.th/gistda_n/

It's a very hard call and I wouldn't like to make it,

and for sure many powerful people living in the capital will be calling the shots.

But unless water is allowed to freely flow through central Bangkok unhindered it's

gona get worse much worse taking months for Thailand to get back to any state on NORMALCY.

There is even a risk despite efforts it well break through anyway leaving Central Bangkok submerged very fast.

Don't forget many Industrial estates and factories are located in the suburbs and already flooded NOT in central Bangkok.

Anyway not my call but if it were I would call to open the flood gates and get the disaster over and done with as soon as possible,

instead of waiting for the inevitable.

Another poster mentioned water pumps please take a look at the image

Edited October 31, 2011 by monkfish

[dutch54]

Do you understand this?

More or less.

b.t.w: Where are you living?

[elcent]

Has anyone seen the latest images?

Can anyone spot the bottle neck here?

Higher resolution images can be viewed here

http://www.gistda.or.th/gistda_n/

It's a very hard call and I wouldn't like to make it,

and for sure many powerful people living in the capital will be calling the shots.

But unless water is allowed to freely flow through central Bangkok unhindered it's

gona get worse much worse taking months for Thailand to get back to any state on NORMALCY.

There is even a risk despite efforts it well break through leaving Central Bangkok submerged very fast.

Don't forget many Industrial estates and factories are located in the suburbs and already flooded NOT in central Bangkok.

Not my call but if it were I would call to open the flood gates and get the disaster over and done with as soon as possible,

instead of waiting for the inevitable.

Another poster mentioned water pumps please take a look at the image

... well, somehow it looks like a light bulb. When that is gone a 4th world level is almost guaranteed.

Remember that there's no flow to the sea right now, It's like juggling more and more water on two hands. It's not a flash flood issue but a tide that won't allow to take more water.

According to your logic, pump it back to where it came from? Or is it that someone has prepared to speculate with these events?

Edited October 31, 2011 by elcent

[mdechgan]

I think one of the reasons we are flooding so much is because the government screwed up.

They are diverting the water away from central bkk which causes more pressure and water to flow to the east and west.

North, west, and east bangkok is under water while the khlongs in central bkk are at normal levels.

The gates are closed which forces the water to flow more aggressively around.

Look at the residents at khlong sam wa. If they didn't start a ruckus the water gate will still be closed.

They have to beg for the gate to rise 10cm at a time.

If one area is flooded more than a meter while the other side is normal because of a closed water gate is just not right.

[wintermute]

Anyway not my call but if it were I would call to open the flood gates and get the disaster over and done with as soon as possible,

instead of waiting for the inevitable.

Another poster mentioned water pumps please take a look at the image

Good luck maintaining infrastructure to get the water moving out in a timely fashion when you have all the roads submerged, spotty electricity, offices shut down, and a local economy grinding down to a halt. It would be silly to let water just overtake central bangkok.

[elcent]

I think one of the reasons we are flooding so much is because the government screwed up.

They are diverting the water away from central bkk which causes more pressure and water to flow to the east and west.

North, west, and east bangkok is under water while the khlongs in central bkk are at normal levels.

The gates are closed which forces the water to flow more aggressively around.

Look at the residents at khlong sam wa. If they didn't start a ruckus the water gate will still be closed.

They have to beg for the gate to rise 10cm at a time.

If one area is flooded more than a meter while the other side is normal because of a closed water gate is just not right.

... sorry for your predicaments, but there are many more things to be considered. First, the Klongs are not natural and can only handle the drainage and rains within the Bangkok area and not the run offs from the North which were artificially accumulated by political decisions.

[mdechgan]

Has anyone seen the latest images?

Can anyone spot the bottle neck here?

Higher resolution images can be viewed @

http://www.gistda.or.th/gistda_n/

It's a very hard call and I wouldn't like to make it,

and for sure many powerful people living in the capital will be calling the shots.

But unless water is allowed to freely flow through central Bangkok unhindered it's

gona get worse much worse taking months for Thailand to get back to any state on NORMALCY.

There is even a risk despite efforts it well break through anyway leaving Central Bangkok submerged very fast.

Don't forget many Industrial estates and factories are located in the suburbs and already flooded NOT in central Bangkok.

Anyway not my call but if it were I would call to open the flood gates and get the disaster over and done with as soon as possible,

instead of waiting for the inevitable.

Another poster mentioned water pumps please take a look at the image

If everywhere is flooded except for a small area in the center of the map I will be really pissed off!

Open the gates!

[elcent]

Has anyone seen the latest images?

Can anyone spot the bottle neck here?

Higher resolution images can be viewed @

http://www.gistda.or.th/gistda_n/

It's a very hard call and I wouldn't like to make it,

and for sure many powerful people living in the capital will be calling the shots.

But unless water is allowed to freely flow through central Bangkok unhindered it's

gona get worse much worse taking months for Thailand to get back to any state on NORMALCY.

There is even a risk despite efforts it well break through anyway leaving Central Bangkok submerged very fast.

Don't forget many Industrial estates and factories are located in the suburbs and already flooded NOT in central Bangkok.

Anyway not my call but if it were I would call to open the flood gates and get the disaster over and done with as soon as possible,

instead of waiting for the inevitable.

Another poster mentioned water pumps please take a look at the image

If everywhere is flooded except for a small area in the center of the map I will be really pissed off!

Open the gates!

don't worry, you are ...

[SantiSuk]

How could any high level politician let the waters flow? Tantamount to total loss of what little control they can claim to have exercised.

[letitbe]

On one side of the barrier the water is 4 foot deep.

On the other side of the barrier it is dry.

I can't help but think it would be fairer and have less economic impact for the water to be 1 foot deep everywhere.

With water 1 foot deep life can go on as usual for everyone,

But the rich like the poor to suffer the most in Thailand.

It surely would be more fair.

But realistically, do you think they can take the chance of a "controlled" flooding in the zones of high economical importance?

Central Bangkok is not as flat as it might seem. As a foot of water in one part might mean a whole lot more in other parts.

I'm happy I'm not the one who has to take this kind of decision. I feel it's something like: should we flood heavily 1 million people or lightly 10 million? It's one of these "Would you rather lose an arm or a leg?" questions. There isn't a right and a wrong answer.

Yes how do you balance.

You need to fix your house with a flood 1 foot or 4 feet ,

but if your job is dead with 1 foot

and still there with 4,

you can still pay for fixes.

The 300-400 BILLION baht needed for the repairs in government and loans will need to come from somewhere.

Which engine of commerce will you 'save or lose' to 'be fair'?

I agree I would be angry as a wet hornet if my place were flooded,

but more angry at who caused the flooding to begin with,

than those who have to manage it by the seat of their pants on the fly.

Now if all three things are mis-managed by the same crew in serial FROC-ups,

then I would be in a mood to throw the bums out. No confidence votes are

still how it's done using Democratic means, and legitimate street rage at

government ineptitude is still one of the ways those votes are lost by governments.

2.4 million people displaced by not properly managing this water for 2+ months.

No wonder the spin-miesters are in full backpedal mode.

I agree I would be angry as a wet hornet if my place were flooded, but more angry at who caused the flooding to begin with...

Good remark, and a good question: WHO caused the flooding to begin with?:

come on everyone knows evil dems and elites caused it all and not the hero for totally ignoring when in power before warning and suggestions a central canal had to be built to stop inevitable disaster but then he was a bit to busy stelainf Thailand's money to have time for that sort of thing. every cloud has a silver lining and maybe this will cause such economic disaster coupled with all money flowing int this lots little projects will casue even most ardent worshiper to question weather this lot of #$%%^$## give a #@$%% about them

[Gweiloman]

come on everyone knows evil dems and elites caused it all and not the hero for totally ignoring when in power before warning and suggestions a central canal had to be built to stop inevitable disaster but then he was a bit to busy stelainf Thailand's money to have time for that sort of thing. every cloud has a silver lining and maybe this will cause such economic disaster coupled with all money flowing int this lots little projects will casue even most ardent worshiper to question weather this lot of #$%%^$## give a #@$%% about them

If you would like your post to be read, consider punctuating.

[monkfish]

come on everyone knows evil dems and elites caused it all and not the hero for totally ignoring when in power before warning and suggestions a central canal had to be built to stop inevitable disaster but then he was a bit to busy stelainf Thailand's money to have time for that sort of thing. every cloud has a silver lining and maybe this will cause such economic disaster coupled with all money flowing int this lots little projects will casue even most ardent worshiper to question weather this lot of #$%%^$## give a #@$%% about them

Purposely left politics out of my post.

Look at the map and make your own call.

Open or let the rest suffer??

[elcent]

Purposely left politics out of my post.

Look at the map and make your own call.

Open or let the rest suffer??

... that sounds like an economic hit-man, are you?

[josephbloggs]

If you think releasing water to an average of 1ft across Bangkok at all will BE then 1ft on some average is inane - see the topology map and notice that some areas will be under 2-3m while others are still dry. By no fault of their own. Or the government.

One could be forgiven for thinking that those who bought low lying houses built on a flood plain, should shoulder part of the "fault" themselves.

Using the same logic: And those living outside flood barriers should not?

I don't (didn't) live in a flood plane. My area was turned into one to protect people's right to live it up at the malls on Sukhumvit.

I think the people who have been flooded have a legitimate grievance and if I was in their position I'd probably want to smash down the barriers and dykes too. But your last sentence is ridiculous. If you honestly think the people in the "dry zone" are whooping it up and buying Rolexes in celebration then you are sadly mistaken. Unfortunate as it is, this government (who are the Reds - the rural poor remember?) has taken the decision to try and save Bangkok at the expense of others. We had no part in that decision. Most of us would agree to take on water to alleviate the suffering of those outside. But Bangkok is a city of 10 million people and it powers the economy. If it were to flood Thailand would be crippled. Tens of thousands - maybe hundreds of thousands - would be out of work. It would take years to recover and that would affect all Thais. Right or wrong, that is the truth of it. So please take your self righteous divisive nonsense and stick it your dyke.

[erobando]

Purposely left politics out of my post.

Look at the map and make your own call.

Open or let the rest suffer??

The "protected area" is 10 kms wide at most.

The flooded area covers a spread of about 70 kms.

What difference does it make to any of the areas to the north? Plus, the water is being run off to lower ground to the east.

[josephbloggs]

On one side of the barrier the water is 4 foot deep.

On the other side of the barrier it is dry.

I can't help but think it would be fairer and have less economic impact for the water to be 1 foot deep everywhere.

With water 1 foot deep life can go on as usual for everyone,

But the rich like the poor to suffer the most in Thailand.

I fully agree. It would have been better to open sluice gates from the very beginning in order to allow the water to flow into the sea, even if major parts of Bangkok would have become inundated. The flooding could have been kept in check, reaching perhaps 30 cm in places instead of the 1 or 1.5 metres or more as it does now. Bangkok can deal with 30 cm of water even during a prolonged period. And if those fine khunyings with their stiff hairdos feel impeded during their weekly trip to Emporium, so be it. Not everybody in inner Bangkok is insanely rich and drives a BMW, of course, but it wouldn't have hurt if we all would have shared the burden. It's still dry as a bone at my place (Ramkhamhaeng), although I am used to flooding even after a heavy rainstorm. What an irony.

Great, another water expert on TV. Please tell me how the volume of water now backed up equals 30cm in Bangkok. I'm pretty sure Bangkok has many levels. You've obviously done your homework so I'm intrigued what your calculations are. And you get a bonus 10 points for using the Emporium cliche. 97% of the people in Bangkok are not insanely rich believe it or not.

[thaicbr]

Has anyone seen the latest images?

Can anyone spot the bottle neck here?

Higher resolution images can be viewed @

http://www.gistda.or.th/gistda_n/

It's a very hard call and I wouldn't like to make it,

and for sure many powerful people living in the capital will be calling the shots.

But unless water is allowed to freely flow through central Bangkok unhindered it's

gona get worse much worse taking months for Thailand to get back to any state on NORMALCY.

There is even a risk despite efforts it well break through anyway leaving Central Bangkok submerged very fast.

Don't forget many Industrial estates and factories are located in the suburbs and already flooded NOT in central Bangkok.

Anyway not my call but if it were I would call to open the flood gates and get the disaster over and done with as soon as possible,

instead of waiting for the inevitable.

Another poster mentioned water pumps please take a look at the image

Maybe if you look at this image it is actually a better representation of the actual flood. Rather than the pretty blue bits..look for the dark of the flood. looks a bit different does it not.