Flood Advancing In On City:

[Bpuumike]

Back to the thread, all I can contribute is that the Petch-Param and that part of Ramkamphaeng are still dry.

Edited November 7, 2011 by craigt3365
off topic posts removed

[khaowong1]

r

With all respect for every ones opinion about the handling from the government , i would remind us all about that big "'world leading " country .... how they handled the flooding at New Orleans ...., things on the sideline looks always so simplel. to do .......:jap:

What's your point? I see this so often, and it's a weak point every time. How much time did the US gov't have to prepare between the time it hit and the calamity? Also, was the US able to muster a very robust and proper health response? Also, were there constant mixed messages about what was occurring? Also, were there public fighting among elected officials hampering the relief effort, and if so how quickly was it resolved? Also, was there a huge man made component to the NE flooding? Also, has there been a through review of the events (made public) and the resulting learning from past mistakes?

As long as countries are comprised of people, none will be perfect, but what a weak, ill informed opinion it is to compare in the way you have the NE floods with those in Thailand currently.

Can you elaborate on your points?

my point is written in the end : "it is easy to comment from the sideline "

you can use it also for the New Orleans flood, but keep also in perspective Thailand is not a country on the same level as the USA , and comparing the differences would only make you more agitated

And, you should know, that at the next elections, practically every one of those Louisiana politicians were voted out of office all the way up to the Governor. Their incompetence was not tolerated.

[ResX]

With all respect for every ones opinion about the handling from the government , i would remind us all about that big "'world leading " country .... how they handled the flooding at New Orleans ...., things on the sideline looks always so simplel. to do .......:jap:

Yes, you're right...the US did a horrible job that time. But you are comparing an unpredictable flood situation with a long term, annual flooding situation. Not comparable.

Actually, flooding of New Orleans is fairly predictable - not in term s of exactly when, but in terms of if (same with Thailand - its GONNA happen, just not sure which years).

Long term, New Orleans is out of luck, without disprportionate amounts of capital expenditures to save it. Ever been to New Orleans? Its not worth saving.

Like much of Bangkok, New Orleans should never have been built on.

That is why the design and operational philosophy for a flood control structure are as follows: (1) to prepare all the flood control structure as if the anticipated flood will strike during this year's monsoon (2) design the flood control structure in such a manner that it will not collaborate with the flood in the case the actual flood is greater than the anticipated flood. (3) Open the emergency sluice gates for the flood control structure if only the actual flood is higher than the maximum design flood.

How many of these requirements have been followed lately?

Edited November 7, 2011 by ResX

[siampolee]

geriatrickid # 84

The UN is already present. Unicef is distributing aid packages.The IRC has feeding programs in place. Various western NGOs are at work. Because you do not acknowledge their presence does not mean they are not there. There are people from Japan, Australia, USA, Israel and now Germany and the Netherlands working hard.. Many aid organizations intentionally keep a low profile and do not wave flags or shout that they are in a disaster zone out of respect for local sensitivities.. Aid should be given in a manner that allows the receipient to maintain his/her dignity. However, the fundamental characteristic of the floods to date is that there isn't much that any foreign aid group can do. At this time, there is no medical crisis, although the potential is there. That's why WHO is working on getting the vaccines and medications into the pipeline. There are no people starving. The numbers of displaced people are being managed by the Thai government. Just what is it that you want the UN and others to help with? Sandbagging? Building flood barriers? The MOI and army has that as under control as it is going to be.

And where is your evidence of such matters concerning the presence of those you describe ?

Edited November 7, 2011 by siampolee

[rogerdee123]

geriatrickid # 84

The UN is already present. Unicef is distributing aid packages.The IRC has feeding programs in place. Various western NGOs are at work. Because you do not acknowledge their presence does not mean they are not there. There are people from Japan, Australia, USA, Israel and now Germany and the Netherlands working hard.. Many aid organizations intentionally keep a low profile and do not wave flags or shout that they are in a disaster zone out of respect for local sensitivities.. Aid should be given in a manner that allows the receipient to maintain his/her dignity. However, the fundamental characteristic of the floods to date is that there isn't much that any foreign aid group can do. At this time, there is no medical crisis, although the potential is there. That's why WHO is working on getting the vaccines and medications into the pipeline. There are no people starving. The numbers of displaced people are being managed by the Thai government. Just what is it that you want the UN and others to help with? Sandbagging? Building flood barriers? The MOI and army has that as under control as it is going to be.

And where is your evidence of such matters concerning the presence of those you describe ?

In this post .... geriatrickid knows what he's talking about.

The Thai Govt is in charge, albeit they are doing a terrible job.

The UN and the NGOs have to work thru their "partners", meaning the Thai Govt agencies or the local Thai NGO's.

This is Thailand and not Cambodia ... at least not yet.

[Scott]

Another series of posts deleted as well as replies to them. Please stay on the topic. Hint: Floods.

[siampolee]

I stand corrected Rogerdee123 and G.K.

Edited November 7, 2011 by siampolee

[Bpuumike]

This is part the latest UK FCO travel advisory to Bangkok issued this evening:

"This flood water is being contained by a series of barriers, dykes and canals. Some of these defences have been breached. The extent of this breaching is currently unclear. Other defences protecting the centre of the city are untested. There remains a significant risk that central Bangkok will be affected by flooding were these to fail, or were the existing breaches to grow."

Even the normally conservative UK Foreign Office seems to acknowledge the very confusing information being given out in Thailand. This has been the most frustrating issue to me throughout, not knowing what to expect, where or when. The present situation is far removed from the normal flooding in Bangkok and even if the government can't manage the flooding they should at least be capable of giving accurate and timely information. Not so.

[jpinx]

ok -- for those of you who need a news update and what will happen here it is.

The monsoon was extra big and long this year, and the run-off could not be contained by the resevoirs so it overflowed a LOT.

Water being what it is - it ran down the valleys and filled the flood basin (appropriately named, don't you think?)

Unfortunately some people had decided to build a few towns and a big city there, but the water doesn't mind - it goes everywhere anyway, no matter what barriers are put up, the water will find a way round, under or over them.

The situation was made much worse because the canals which should allow water to run freely to the sea were mostly blocked, so the water ran down the roads instead.

That will include probably every single road in Bangkok, to a greater or lesser extent, so if you live in Bangkok, be ready for water, anything from a few cms to over a metre, depending on the details of the topography of your local area.

Timing is variable, but the water front is progressing at about 1 to 2 kms per day, but with diversions because of various futile attempts to block it.

It has been taking anything from 1 to 3 months from first arrival to showing dry surfaces again, also depending on the futile interventions.

Edited November 7, 2011 by jpinx

[craigt3365]

This topic is about the flood. Numerous off topic posts have been removed. The next off topic post will draw a warning.

PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC

:jap: :jap: :jap: :jap:

[anon8]

these double, triple, quadruple quotes make it very difficult to follow who you are actually answering or replying to, MAJIC

if I owned ThaiVisa, I would do away with quote/replay button in a nano second. Miles and miles and miles of quotes, 90% of content is just quotes

/end offtopic/

[balo]

Its dry here in Bang Na area, every day is a normal day here , traffic as normal . I am tired of waiting for the flood now.

[monty1412]

Personally if I was the Thai government I would ask the Singaporean water management folks to come in and manage operations.

Why stop at just water management? How about everything else as well?

And manage the Philippines too.

Id vote yes for both those alternatives although not sure the Singaporeans would want to take on PI.. there is a limit to what they can do and PI is a basket case from every level and angle.

[Captain Chaos]

As a resident of Singapore, would have to point out that there have been a handful of flash floods here this year (usually Bukit Timah or Orchard Road) when the storm drains couldn't cope with prolonged cloudbursts and backed up as a consequence. Cue much grumbling and an investigation into the relevant public authority's alleged failings in preparing for such matters. No doubt Singapore is somewhat more organized than Thailand in flood management, but no-one gets it right every time, unfortunately there's always an element of learning by mistakes in these circumstances.

CC

[Thaddeus]

As a resident of Singapore, would have to point out that there have been a handful of flash floods here this year (usually Bukit Timah or Orchard Road) when the storm drains couldn't cope with prolonged cloudbursts and backed up as a consequence. Cue much grumbling and an investigation into the relevant public authority's alleged failings in preparing for such matters. No doubt Singapore is somewhat more organized than Thailand in flood management, but no-one gets it right every time, unfortunately there's always an element of learning by mistakes in these circumstances.

CC

That is not comparing like for like though is it.

Even in its raw form, without human intervention, the geography of Thailand is effectively a large funnel, a huge catchment area of rainfall with only one way out. And it has been that way for countless millennia.

What have mankind done to this very basic machine, they've put a very large concrete cork in it..... why did they do that huh?

And when it all goes horribly wrong, who do they blame? to which the simple answer is everything but themselves.

[biloutte]

go out from your home evacuate don t be worry you will get 5000 for all problem for save bangkok is ok

if you loose all don t be worry to all is include inside your 5000 bath

so sade for thai people realy

good luck all of you for futur

[BigJohnnyBKK]

i just read 'farang' as 'foreign' .. which is what it means .. i think you're a bit too sensitive.

if there were people from overseas (ie. foreigners) staying in australia talking on the 'ozzievisa' forum or whatever about how the floods there were being handled badly by the australian government and an australian came on and said 'i don't think a foreign government would do any better'.. would you freak out about the using of the word foreign?

is it just being called a farang? you better get over that.. go to your nearest temple and meditate on it.. it isn't offensive.. it's just a word for the people from overseas, dude.

No "farang" only applies to foreigners of European background/appearance. The other major categories are "Khaek" for Indian/Arab and "Africa". Only fellow Asians get distinguished by their actual country of origin. Farang country" is a completely clear and understandable concept for those living here, just as "Asian country" or "Arab country" would be back home.

The meaning is based on skin color, not nationality, Thais will usually think of a dark-skinned Mediterranean person as not really a farang, probably more "Khaek".

The language doesn't have a general label for such confusing concepts as black or asian people actually being American or Australian, but these would definitely not be considered farang.

Those Thais that have been educated enough to understand the idea that Westerners consider these labels offensive learn not to use them in offensive ways when Westerners are listening, but that doesn't change they way they think or speak.

I've seen Iranians freak out when someone refers to Iran as an "Arab" country, god forbid you call someone from Ireland "British"

But 99% of the time such labels don't reflect bad intentions, just ignorance.

And IMO "racism" has been generalized as "evil" far too widely in the West, to the point where there often isn't a way to even discuss the subject of race without raised hackles getting in the way.

But yes racism is deeply ingrained in Thai thinking, very little awareness much less effort to eliminate it. Take comfort from the fact that they'll never hate anyone else more than their immediate neighbors 8-)

But being called a farang is never an insult in and of itself. The fact that to many Thais it carries a connotation of "idiotic sex fiend" isn't their fault now is it?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

This is part the latest UK FCO travel advisory to Bangkok issued this evening:

"This flood water is being contained by a series of barriers, dykes and canals. Some of these defences have been breached. The extent of this breaching is currently unclear. Other defences protecting the centre of the city are untested. There remains a significant risk that central Bangkok will be affected by flooding were these to fail, or were the existing breaches to grow."

Even the normally conservative UK Foreign Office seems to acknowledge the very confusing information being given out in Thailand. This has been the most frustrating issue to me throughout, not knowing what to expect, where or when. The present situation is far removed from the normal flooding in Bangkok and even if the government can't manage the flooding they should at least be capable of giving accurate and timely information. Not so.

Well suppose the actual reality is that:

* every scrap of Bangkok will be flooded to some degree eventually in the next month or two

and

* it is in each resident's best interest to get their s&^%$ together and get out of town

and

* a very small percentage of the city's population has the resources to do this themselves

and

* everyone scrambling to evacuate at the same time would cause problems on a scale few can imagine

and

* the government isn't actually capable of solving the resulting problems (or willing to, not a "political" issue, more cultural/economic)

Those with the resources to take care of themselves (and the intelligence to do so) get out of town or at least are ready to do so when the waters starts to rise in their area.

Those with less information or intelligence, which tends to correlate with lack of resources as well, are the only ones left to be dealt with by public assistance.

The government only needs to evacuate one section at a time as the actual water is rising in a given area, and therefore is more able to deal with the disaster in manageable chunks.

Makes their current information management strategy seem pretty rational, doesn't it?

As a side benefit, those foreigners actually important to the country (management of large international firms with investments here) are conditioned to accept the magnitude of the problem by getting the news in bite-sized chunks, like a frog allowing himself to get cooked because the temperature is rising slowly.