Why The Hate

[daiwill60]

I do not think 'hate' is a proper description of most of us, toward Thailand and its people. As we watched our children grow and mature, we saw antics and mindsets that we knew would be self defeating, thus we tried to change and explain based on our success and failures. We have done the same with adults in the work force, family, friends, etc.

The way we word our suggestions may seem to some as 'hate' but forums do not lend themselves to proper interpretation due to lack of observing facial expressions, body language and the individuals sense of humor/cynicism.

Well said. I like the comparison with nurturing children, I think in fact that most who do seem to knock Thailand, are only showing that they are exasperrated by observing the childish bahaviour of certain individuals in the playground and the lack of ability for the masters to control it, or themselves for that matter. Very often in these cases it is the Bullies in the school yard who rule until a collective of fed up people stand up to them and fight back or demand changes.

[daiwill60]

I personally see the use of the word Farang as a way of saying Foreigner, In fact that is what it says in my dictionary alongside 'Kon Dahng Chahd'.

I sat next to my wife last night at a Loi Kratong event and neat to us was sat an oldish Thai guy who asked where foreign (farang) husband was from. She explained i was from Wales. After all the guy is hardly going to say where is your welsh, ( Norwegian, American, or English ) husband from is he.

When I listen to Thai people talikng I often hear the word Farang, sometimes I know they are talking about me or foreigners in general. When I was in the UK, everybody, the BBC and Gov't alike, referred to people who settled in my old home country as immigrants.

I know which one I prefer to be referred to as in polite conversation.

I did not ask where is your immigrant from, of the turkish husband married to western woman or thai woman married to western husband, i would have probably said 'your husband / wife is (a) foreign(er) (Farang), where is he / she from? Or I may have cursed 'foreign' drivers on the roads of the UK in the summer time , It is not racist iit is actually a non racist term of generlising people form different countries when you don't specifically know where they are from, and that is how I feel when i hear the word farang in conversation with Thai people about me or other Ex Pats.

I have also had a few cases where I have made an error with a payment of cash to a Thai, and they have come after me to correct it, by giving me money back or pointed out the error to me, rather than them thinking oooh stupid rich faarang , I will keep his money. So Don't knock the Thai's for calling you a farang or treating you like a second class citizen anymore than you would a foreigner who cannot speak your language in your home country.

Deal with it Guys, Thailand is not PC Britain and never will be, thank you lord, Thailand will never change in this respect, so accept it.

[ludditeman]

I did not ask where is your immigrant from, of the turkish husband married to western woman or thai woman married to western husband, i would have probably said 'your husband / wife is (a) foreign(er) (Farang), where is he / she from? Or I may have cursed 'foreign' drivers on the roads of the UK in the summer time , It is not racist iit is actually a non racist term of generlising people form different countries when you don't specifically know where they are from, and that is how I feel when i hear the word farang in conversation with Thai people about me or other Ex Pats.

What a ridiculous apologist statement.

It is entirely unnecessary in almost all circumstances, to include anyone's skin colour in a conversation..

You can ask where somebody's husband came from without referring to the colour of their skin (unless you are a racist and skin colour is the most important factor).

"Farang" does not equal "foreigner" unless it is a white foreigner.

Their are other insults for foreigners with other colour skins.

Racists are not dishonest, they are racists.

Edited November 11, 2011 by ludditeman

[morrobay]

A question like this would be better if it was for specifics and not for in general.

What do you call it when Thai drivers drive through pedestrian crosswalks with people in the crosswalk when the light is red ? Like they do on Beach rd.

What do you call it when two Korean girls are found on a remote, non tourist rocky beach on Ko Larn island with hands tied and heads bashed in with rocks ?

And the police call it suicide ?

The line between hate and criticism does not exist in some cases.

[Berkshire]

A question like this would be better if it was for specifics and not for in general.

What do you call it when Thai drivers drive through pedestrian crosswalks with people in the crosswalk when the light is red ? Like they do on Beach rd.

What do you call it when two Korean girls are found on a remote, non tourist rocky beach on Ko Larn island with hands tied and heads bashed in with rocks ?

And the police call it suicide ?

The line between hate and criticism does not exist in some cases.

Are you suggesting that if an individual Thai did something heinous, it's perfectly acceptable to hate all Thais? And conversely, if a farang did something heinous, it would be perfectly acceptable to hate all farangs? What exactly is your point? I can give you much worse examples of westerners behaving badly in the west, as well as all over this planet.

[carmine]

A question like this would be better if it was for specifics and not for in general.

What do you call it when Thai drivers drive through pedestrian crosswalks with people in the crosswalk when the light is red ? Like they do on Beach rd.

What do you call it when two Korean girls are found on a remote, non tourist rocky beach on Ko Larn island with hands tied and heads bashed in with rocks ?

And the police call it suicide ?

The line between hate and criticism does not exist in some cases.

Are you suggesting that if an individual Thai did something heinous, it's perfectly acceptable to hate all Thais? And conversely, if a farang did something heinous, it would be perfectly acceptable to hate all farangs? What exactly is your point? I can give you much worse examples of westerners behaving badly in the west, as well as all over this planet.

You made a good point until you starting going on about naming more heinous crimes by westerners! The guy was making a ridiculous point in the first place. And now you're turning into a farang baddies are worse than thai baddies, type of 5 year old arguement!!!

Edited November 11, 2011 by carmine

[TingTawng]

I did not ask where is your immigrant from, of the turkish husband married to western woman or thai woman married to western husband, i would have probably said 'your husband / wife is (a) foreign(er) (Farang), where is he / she from? Or I may have cursed 'foreign' drivers on the roads of the UK in the summer time , It is not racist iit is actually a non racist term of generlising people form different countries when you don't specifically know where they are from, and that is how I feel when i hear the word farang in conversation with Thai people about me or other Ex Pats.

What a ridiculous apologist statement.

It is entirely unnecessary in almost all circumstances, to include anyone's skin colour in a conversation..

You can ask where somebody's husband came from without referring to the colour of their skin (unless you are a racist and skin colour is the most important factor).

"Farang" does not equal "foreigner" unless it is a white foreigner.

Their are other insults for foreigners with other colour skins.

Racists are not dishonest, they are racists.

ludditeman, you are WAY over-reacting to the word "farang". It's all about intent. ANY WORD can be offensive if the intent is evil. Any word can be harmless if the intent is harmless. If you take each word at face value, you will spend your entire life taking offence to everything that's being said. I could say "and what does this man do?" but I could say "man" in an emphatic mocking tone as if to imply I don't think he's much of a man. A Thai person using farang where the intent is no more than to describe someone is not being racist - they're just using a general term.

[Ulysses G.]

Most of us generalize about white people and black people without being racist and with no desire to insult or demean. There is nothing racist about the word "farang" by itself.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[carmine]

Most of us generalize about white people and black people without being racist and with no desire to insult or demean. There is nothing racist about the word "farang" by itself.

No its not racist. Worst case is its possibly rather lazy, which really isn't a big thing with me

[Berkshire]

A question like this would be better if it was for specifics and not for in general.

What do you call it when Thai drivers drive through pedestrian crosswalks with people in the crosswalk when the light is red ? Like they do on Beach rd.

What do you call it when two Korean girls are found on a remote, non tourist rocky beach on Ko Larn island with hands tied and heads bashed in with rocks ?

And the police call it suicide ?

The line between hate and criticism does not exist in some cases.

Are you suggesting that if an individual Thai did something heinous, it's perfectly acceptable to hate all Thais? And conversely, if a farang did something heinous, it would be perfectly acceptable to hate all farangs? What exactly is your point? I can give you much worse examples of westerners behaving badly in the west, as well as all over this planet.

You made a good point until you starting going on about naming more heinous crimes by westerners! The guy was making a ridiculous point in the first place. And now you're turning into a farang baddies are worse than thai baddies, type of 5 year old arguement!!!

Actually, Carmine, you are correct. I was trying to demonstrate the absurdity of his premise by turning it around so that he (presumably a farang) can see how his statement appears if the tables were turned. Somewhat junior high school-ish, but sometimes, that's what it takes.

[Berkshire]

What a ridiculous apologist statement.

It is entirely unnecessary in almost all circumstances, to include anyone's skin colour in a conversation..

You can ask where somebody's husband came from without referring to the colour of their skin (unless you are a racist and skin colour is the most important factor).

"Farang" does not equal "foreigner" unless it is a white foreigner.

Their are other insults for foreigners with other colour skins.

Racists are not dishonest, they are racists.

ludditeman, you are WAY over-reacting to the word "farang". It's all about intent. ANY WORD can be offensive if the intent is evil. Any word can be harmless if the intent is harmless. If you take each word at face value, you will spend your entire life taking offence to everything that's being said. I could say "and what does this man do?" but I could say "man" in an emphatic mocking tone as if to imply I don't think he's much of a man. A Thai person using farang where the intent is no more than to describe someone is not being racist - they're just using a general term.

Pretty good explanation, TingTawng.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Berkshire

[WebBangkok]

Who the hell gets offended by being called a farang lol......

People will hate, but these people who call out Thai's saying they all have no brain, or bad mouth any group of people do so because they need to boost there own self esteem.

I have heard some people comment on a crime and then label Thai people violent killers and act like this only happens in Thailand and not anywhere else in the world.

I think a lot of the people who hate have either self esteem issues or have been done over financially and remain bitter.

You see it in the News section all the time, they change the subject a little and try to slam Thai people as hard as they can lol.

[morrobay]

A question like this would be better if it was for specifics and not for in general.

What do you call it when Thai drivers drive through pedestrian crosswalks with people in the crosswalk when the light is red ? Like they do on Beach rd.

What do you call it when two Korean girls are found on a remote, non tourist rocky beach on Ko Larn island with hands tied and heads bashed in with rocks ?

And the police call it suicide ?

The line between hate and criticism does not exist in some cases.

Are you suggesting that if an individual Thai did something heinous, it's perfectly acceptable to hate all Thais? And conversely, if a farang did something heinous, it would be perfectly acceptable to hate all farangs? What exactly is your point? I can give you much worse examples of westerners behaving badly in the west, as well as all over this planet.

You made a good point until you starting going on about naming more heinous crimes by westerners! The guy was making a ridiculous point in the first place. And now you're turning into a farang baddies are worse than thai baddies, type of 5 year old arguement!!!

No thats not what im suggesting , Do you know what specific means ? How in the world you would interpret it that way I dont know -

Get back from lunch !

I dont know what is ridiculous about the point here as it applies to the original OP question as it applies to Thailand.

There are pluses and negatives eveyryhere - as long as the pluses outweigh the negatives then Thailand is a good place

Edited November 11, 2011 by morrobay

[ludditeman]

ludditeman, you are WAY over-reacting to the word "farang". It's all about intent. ANY WORD can be offensive if the intent is evil. Any word can be harmless if the intent is harmless. If you take each word at face value, you will spend your entire life taking offence to everything that's being said. I could say "and what does this man do?" but I could say "man" in an emphatic mocking tone as if to imply I don't think he's much of a man. A Thai person using farang where the intent is no more than to describe someone is not being racist - they're just using a general term.

If you understood spoken Thai you would understand the sentiments that usually surround the word.

I suspect you, like many of the apologists, can't understand Thai.

@Berkshire same same.

Edited November 11, 2011 by ludditeman

[canuckamuck]

ludditeman, you are WAY over-reacting to the word "farang". It's all about intent. ANY WORD can be offensive if the intent is evil. Any word can be harmless if the intent is harmless. If you take each word at face value, you will spend your entire life taking offence to everything that's being said. I could say "and what does this man do?" but I could say "man" in an emphatic mocking tone as if to imply I don't think he's much of a man. A Thai person using farang where the intent is no more than to describe someone is not being racist - they're just using a general term.

If you understood spoken Thai you would understand the sentiments that usually surround the word.

I suspect you, like many of the apologists, can't understand Thai.

@Berkshire same same.

I'll bet the opposite is true and the majority of Thailingual foreigners think the word is not generally meant as an insult.

[Kilgore Trout]

I had a friend at work, a western black woman, once she was eating an ice cream and the ladies who worked in the kitchen just erupted into laughter, saying in Thai how fat and disgusting she was, that her butt stuck out etc, the lady didn't understand Thai (lucky for her) but knew what they were on about after hearing "ouan" over and over, she burst into tears. This just made these ladies ("nice" older Thai ladies with families and kids) laugh more, they were literally on the floor pointing at her etc.

I have never seen such obnoxious, disgusting behavior in all my life. None of the other Thai staff seemed to be bothered by it either, and the idea of reprimanding these ladies was never even called into question, it all came down to "mai pen rai."

Although I love Thailand, instances like these, and others I have seen really make me wonder about "Thai culture."

Whose fault was it that she was fat?

Thais just laugh at the obvious, here fat people are funny, something for everyone to laugh at.

Ha, try saying something about a Thai with acne, tell them their face looks like a durian (it is obvious, right?) and see what response you get.

I love when people try to justify bad Thai behavior

[GooEng]

I had a friend at work, a western black woman, once she was eating an ice cream and the ladies who worked in the kitchen just erupted into laughter, saying in Thai how fat and disgusting she was, that her butt stuck out etc, the lady didn't understand Thai (lucky for her) but knew what they were on about after hearing "ouan" over and over, she burst into tears. This just made these ladies ("nice" older Thai ladies with families and kids) laugh more, they were literally on the floor pointing at her etc.

I have never seen such obnoxious, disgusting behavior in all my life. None of the other Thai staff seemed to be bothered by it either, and the idea of reprimanding these ladies was never even called into question, it all came down to "mai pen rai."

Although I love Thailand, instances like these, and others I have seen really make me wonder about "Thai culture."

Whose fault was it that she was fat?

Thais just laugh at the obvious, here fat people are funny, something for everyone to laugh at.

Ha, try saying something about a Thai with acne, tell them their face looks like a durian (it is obvious, right?) and see what response you get.

I love when people try to justify bad Thai behavior

ha ha ha ha ha ha!

i know the thais think fat people are fair targets for laughter! and short people, bald people, dark skinned people, gay people, western people .... hang on a sec, where's this heading??

for the apologists out there - sorry!

(i'm not even gonna read this <deleted>' thread again ...)

[thedistillers]

That's it basically, why do so many posters here slag Thailand and Thai people off, whilst living in Thailand and having a Thai partner by choice ?

Because a lot of people come in Thailand for the low-cost of living and prostitutes (funnily they are often referred to as the wife, ha ha ha), not for Thailand or Thai people in general.

[ludditeman]

Ha, try saying something about a Thai with acne, tell them their face looks like a durian (it is obvious, right?) and see what response you get.

I love when people try to justify bad Thai behavior

My neighbor often said "ee na pen lum" when talking about just such a person.

A bug eyed person was called "ee dta luak"

Women in Thailand are casually cruel to each other.

Edited November 11, 2011 by ludditeman

[TheWalkingMan]

Many people do like Thailand for its non-PC attitude on the things mentioned above. Personally, I think that a little PC does good as it keeps good manners. The women laughing and continuing to poke fun at the overweight woman mentioned is just plain low-class conduct. Making a joke or two is not nice but to extend it is tacky. Maybe it shows how being non-PC can get out of hand.

Previously, I participated in a chat room with text and voice. The room had a regular group of characters. Anyway, one day one of the guys got on voice and stated to a woman with a handicapped child that it would have been better if the kid died. Which is just about as far as a non-PC comment can go. Without some type of boundary, people will say whatever pops into their mind without a filter.

Thailand is a nice place with its own set of problems and people who complain about it have every right to complain. It is not hate, people see things that they think are wrong and have every right to complain. Just as others are able to see things that are wrong and not complain about it. Welcome to life. As long as someone feels that they are happier in Thailand, even with all their complaining, they should stay and have a good time. When there are more bad days than good days and you are totally stressed out without any hope of feeling better, then maybe it is time to move on. That decision is up to the individual.

[Ulysses G.]

If you understood spoken Thai you would understand the sentiments that usually surround the word.

I suspect you, like many of the apologists, can't understand Thai.

The old, "I speak Thai better than you do" defence.

[lumply]

I too have often wondered why there is so much griping and there are valid arguments in most of the posts. I have never lived in Thailand but I have been visiting for more than 30 years. I've been ripped off and left feeling frustrated just like many others. But I have worked and lived in Saudi and Dubai (currently) and HKG for a good deal of my working life and.....what do I find myself doing? Yes having a good old moan about many things. There are places that you would be locked up for talking out of turn; at least in LOS you have a very high element of freedom! With all its' problems Thailand is a great place and when I retire there in the forseeable future (hopefully), I too will join the ranks of the moaners! Please forgive me.

[PattaniMan]

If you understood spoken Thai you would understand the sentiments that usually surround the word.

I suspect you, like many of the apologists, can't understand Thai.

The old, "I speak Thai better than you do" defence.

GREAT FARANG DEFENSES

1. I know where you're coming from, but just how long have you been here? I've been here for 17 years.

2. I hear you bro, but I don't think you can ever really understand these women until you've been married a few times.

In my experience, these defenses often come from Brits.

[elliss]

Sorry Rick, but the Thai guys don't want girls with children, Thai guys don't want girls older than 25, Thai guys don't marry prostitutes.

There is no resentment in the equation. We get the dregs that no Thai guy would dream of touching.

correct ,

if i may add a ride her.

the handsome young thai guy makes the kid .

along comes old farang , he can take care ,of every some thing .

happy nappy ever after .

:jap: :jap:

[Banzai99]

I've been here over 20 years, I was not a tired old pensioner when I arrived, I never knew Thailand was so bad until I joined ThaiVisa, I thought I was happy and content never having had problems in Thailand, then I discover that I am in denial and am wearing rose tinted glasses, surely I must be unhappy, how dare I be content when others are miserable, I must be a Thai apologist.

Thank you ThaiVisa, I now see the error of my ways and will join the Thai bashing bonanza as soon as I don't have a life.

[Banzai99]

Thai guys never marry Thai women with children..... Wot a load of <deleted>, you wanna come up to where I live and give me 1 million baht for every Thai man that has ?

Didn't think so.

Thai man never marry a girl over 25........ Wot a load of <deleted>, again come on up and bring your wallet.

Didn't think so.

Tell me, do these ignorant fools making such statements have any experience in Thailand apart from being a tourist ?

Didn't think so.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Banzai99

[Banzai99]

Anyway, my opinion is this.

Many people came here after retirement and are basically screwed for starting anywhere else, so they are forced to stay here, they have no choice, kowtow to the missus and pretend you are happy, the house is in her name, you sold up in your own country and now blame Thailand for your own mismanagement.

Don't hate Thailand, hate yourself for the gross mismanagement of your own life.

I don't know anyone who is well off who is unhappy here, the people who are financially Fukced are a different matter.

Of course, all ThaiVisa members are rich and there are many that are unhappy, I tell you something, if I was rich and unhappy, I'd be outta here in a heartbeat.

[MAJIC]

If you understood spoken Thai you would understand the sentiments that usually surround the word.

I suspect you, like many of the apologists, can't understand Thai.

The old, "I speak Thai better than you do" defence.

GREAT FARANG DEFENSES

1. I know where you're coming from, but just how long have you been here? I've been here for 17 years.

2. I hear you bro, but I don't think you can ever really understand these women until you've been married a few times.

In my experience, these defenses often come from Brits.

Or Brit Bashers!

[Banzai99]

Makes me laugh really, I would guess that most of the constant whiners are struggling to make ends meet in Thailand.

ThaiVisa logic....

If you are happy in Thailand and have no issues with the country or the population, you are blinkered and a Thai apologist.

If you find fault in everything and spend every waking hour on the Internet you are enlightened and you really know what's going on. ( But how do you know anything when you spend every waking hour in front of a PC ? )

I left my own country for one good reason, I didn't like it, I moved 9000kms to Thailand and if Thailand was as bad as many posters on here seem to think it is, I would have no hesitation moving elsewhere.

I would be crazy to stay somewhere I did not like, wouldn't I ?

[MRTELLYOUSTRAIGHT]

The only thing here that really gets right on my ti*s is the Relentless (emphasized with a capital R) way many Thai's not all but many try to have one over on you, it becomes mentally draining and if not controlled can become very very negative, unless your the type of sap that doesn't care about being ripped off and looked at like a mug by some uneducated idiot from the sticks. Other then that all is hunky dory and not enough to warrant shipping out...yet.