Pacquiao Vs Marquez

[tropo]

As I astutely noted, training IS an important part of boxing

I think he should keep the personal fitness trainer, train full-time in the US for 8-10 weeks before a fight, and replace Freddy Roach as trainer, using Manny Steward instead, so he can improve his very raw boxing skills

You're extremely astute.

...and he shouldn't have entered politics and become a Congressman and he should have started his own TV show and acted in movies. He should have fought any young upstart that came along and challenged him.

What a failure he is...

And why does he make "mysterious" training trips to Asia?

[bhatmasterson]

To change the direction of the conversation here.

Personally I don't think either Mayw or Pacman are on the greatest lists, and are both past their primes. Mayweather is 42-0 with 26 KO's which is not a devastating rate but good enough for a counterpuncher......imagine the bore of 2 counterpunchers in together......styles make fights.

In fact Mayw has only knocked out 1 of his last 7 opponents including the aged warhorse Mosely(not counting the sucker punch of Ortiz).

Here's my analysis and prediction..maybe some others can come on here and present their idea

Mayweather

Pluses-Great counterpuncher, good footwork, slips a lot of punches and blocks others with shoulders, has knockout power

Minuses-power is not overwhelming, more interested in showboating, can get dirty, ability to fight in the trenches is unknown

Pacman

Pluses-Good power at lower weight classes, fast footwork, difficult to pin in corner

Negative-Unidimensional style-comes in with fast footwork throws 4-6 punch combo then jumps back out before repeating this over and over and over(no Plan B , no jab, lunges on overhand left and lifts back leg losing balance, only takes on easy, washed up opponents

Verdict

Honestly, I would rather see either of these guys fight Martinez because at least he comes to fight and is not as concerned about the money...a fight with Pacman would be a pure brawl, which is why Pacman is afraid of him

However, I think Mayweather-Pacman result is either mayweather knocks out Pacman early, the fight ends on a technical foul or the fight goes the distance and Mayweather gets the UD.

Re. that guy who keeps baiting people on here, his complete lack of knowledge also had the "veil" removed....let's not feed the troll, just ignore him and hopefully he will find other people to annoy

I have a feeling Mayweather will appear on the all time greats list and is guaranteed a place if he remains undefeated even if he and Manny never fight. Manny will appear on that list too even though many of the 8 championship belts he's won were under questionable circumstances.

"Mayweather is 42-0 with 26 KO's which is not a devastating rate but good enough for a counterpuncher......imagine the bore of 2 counterpunchers in together......styles make fights."

I agree that styles make fights but two counter punchers does not necessarily a boring fight make. Mayweather out boxed Marquez for 12 rounds and it wasn't boring in my opinion. We've seen time and time again, that WMM is a great counter puncher.

"Mayweather is 42-0 with 26 KO's which is not a devastating rate but good enough for a counterpuncher."

Normally, when boxers go up in weight they lose some of their knock out power. Manny seems to be an exception for some reason.

"Minuses-power is not overwhelming, more interested in showboating, can get dirty, ability to fight in the trenches is unknown"

You may be right about some of MW's tactics in the ring. However, looks to me a lot like ring experience. If the ref doesn't call it it's okay. I do not ever remember seeing MW showboating in the ring. However, outside the ring he acts like a couplet brat. Can you refresh my memory as to the last time you saw him showboating in the ring?

I think Mayweather beats Martinez. It would be a good fight.

[bhatmasterson]

I read Philboxing from time to time. But not too often because of their lack of objectivity in reporting on Manny. But what more can you expect from a Filipino boxing site? I agree with you that boxers are human and are entitled to have an off night. But this boxing match does not qualify as an off night in my opinion. Unless, of course, you say Manny has an off night every time he faces Marquez.

I don't get why would you say, "Looks like I wasn't the only one who sensed Pacquiao wasn't himself on Saturday night?",

I see a lot of objectivity by Filipino boxing writers. At least half of Filipino boxing writers thought that Marquez won the fight - how objective is that?

You're going to find a lot more about the inner workings of Pacquiao on Filipino sites because they know him a lot better. They know Pacquiao as a person. They know about his day job because these days boxing is becoming a hobby for him. He's a congressman who also hosts his own TV show (weekly).

You miss understood my comment. I wasn't talking about his lackluster performance, but his listless appearance and seeming lack of energy when he came out to fight.

To show how wrong you are about Filipino sites "lack of objectivity" I would suggest you visit Pinoygreats.com. You will see all the positive and negative boxing reports about Pacquiao. There's no bias at all. You get them all. You'll see every negative article written about Pacquiao on that site - bar none.

I don't think I said that all Filipino boxing sites lack objectivity. I was speaking of the site that you posted a link to. Obviously, I've not read every Filipino site on the Internet. Nor, am I interested in reading "Every negative article written about Pacquiao."

"To show how wrong you are about Filipino sites "lack of objectivity"

Easy to see what the other guy meant with is remark to you about oneupmanship. I'm tired already.

[tropo]

Easy to see what the other guy meant with is remark to you about oneupmanship. I'm tired already.

You've come back and replied after 2 days and then complain about "oneupmanship". The best thing to do when you are "tired already" is to give it a break.

[chicagogato]

PACQUIAO, MEDIA AND FANS BEING TRICKED AGAIN; NO NEGOTIATIONS WITH MAYWEATHER ARE TAKING PLACE

By Ben Thompson | November 27, 2011

http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content11260.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/a-floyd-mayweather-manny-pacquiao-fight-horizon-pacquiao-adviser-visits-mayweather-las-vegas-article-1.983119?pgno=1

[tropo]

PACQUIAO, MEDIA AND FANS BEING TRICKED AGAIN; NO NEGOTIATIONS WITH MAYWEATHER ARE TAKING PLACE

By Ben Thompson | November 27, 2011

http://www.fighthype...ntent11260.html

http://www.nydailyne...1.983119?pgno=1

There are so many theories about what's going on it'll send your head spinning.

Pacquiao is very close to retiring and he said so to his home province crowd in Sarangani yesterday. He is losing his interest in boxing and who would blame him. It must be a lot more fun hosting a TV show than getting knocked about in the ring. Unlike most boxers he has a very promising life after boxing to look forward to.

[tropo]

PACQUIAO, MEDIA AND FANS BEING TRICKED AGAIN; NO NEGOTIATIONS WITH MAYWEATHER ARE TAKING PLACE

By Ben Thompson | November 27, 2011

http://www.fighthype...ntent11260.html

http://www.nydailyne...1.983119?pgno=1

As I said yesterday, you'll get dizzy wondering what to believe.

This confirms exactly the opposite of what your links did a few days ago.

Mayweather - negotiations

[chicagogato]

PACQUIAO, MEDIA AND FANS BEING TRICKED AGAIN; NO NEGOTIATIONS WITH MAYWEATHER ARE TAKING PLACE

By Ben Thompson | November 27, 2011

http://www.fighthype...ntent11260.html

http://www.nydailyne...1.983119?pgno=1

As I said yesterday, you'll get dizzy wondering what to believe.

This confirms exactly the opposite of what your links did a few days ago.

Mayweather - negotiations

Philboxing.....If you want verifiable links with reporting you need to go elsewhere.

"This confirms exactly the opposite of what your links did a few days ago."

Yeah. Sort of like you Huh? You know a thing or 2 about confirming the opposite. Don't you?

"You told the other guy on here you had WMM ahead and winning the fight. Now you tell me to go and rewatch the fight because Pac won. You ought to keep better track of all the bullsh*t you spout on web forms fella."

AFTER VISITING ARUM'S SUITE, INVESTOR SAYS "WATCH THE NEWS" AND "DO THE MATH", BUT SIMPLY GETTING FOOLED TOO

http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content11293.html?PHPSESSID=04b284444b95074aaa9b6f0251bc336a

[tropo]

Give it a break and stop trying to turn it back into a flame-fest by repeating old flames by angry people.

Obviously a person may come to a different conclusion about a close fight by watching it again.

Now you want to argue about whether or not Pacquiao will fight Mayweather.

The point I made is valid. You will get dizzy trying to find out the truth on this issue. Look, you're already getting dizzy.

To think that your links are verifiable and others aren't is just ridiculous.

Edited December 3, 2011 by tropo

[chicagogato]

Measuring Manny 2012

[WebBangkok]

Im so sick of hearing about Mayweather and Pac. These 2 probably wont even be in their primes when they fight.

Frankly I couldnt care less anymore as there both fuc_ked up what would of been one of the greatest fights of the last decade.

Even if they fight now, some of the gloss has been removed, I would still watch it but it just wouldnt be the same if its in 2012 or later.

[tropo]

Im so sick of hearing about Mayweather and Pac. These 2 probably wont even be in their primes when they fight.

Frankly I couldnt care less anymore as there both fuc_ked up what would of been one of the greatest fights of the last decade.

Did anyone ever seriously think that a Mayweather/Pacquiao fight would be "one of the greatest fights of the last decade"?

With Mayweather being so defensively minded and a counterpuncher extraordinaire there's no way it can ever be a great fight.

[tailspin]

I doubt the fight will live up to its hype.....two fighters past their prime and focused on the money

I see the fight ending on a foul such as low blow, headbutt, or maybe a tyson style ear chomp who knows

then everyone will get sucked in for the rematch......

PT Barnum would have loved this...

Im so sick of hearing about Mayweather and Pac. These 2 probably wont even be in their primes when they fight.

Frankly I couldnt care less anymore as there both fuc_ked up what would of been one of the greatest fights of the last decade.

Did anyone ever seriously think that a Mayweather/Pacquiao fight would be "one of the greatest fights of the last decade"?

With Mayweather being so defensively minded and a counterpuncher extraordinaire there's no way it can ever be a great fight.

[tropo]

I doubt the fight will live up to its hype.....two fighters past their prime and focused on the money

I see the fight ending on a foul such as low blow, headbutt, or maybe a tyson style ear chomp who knows

then everyone will get sucked in for the rematch......

PT Barnum would have loved this...

It's just a case of "styles make fights". Nothing to do with their age.

[chicagogato]

I doubt the fight will live up to its hype.....two fighters past their prime and focused on the money

I see the fight ending on a foul such as low blow, headbutt, or maybe a tyson style ear chomp who knows

then everyone will get sucked in for the rematch......

PT Barnum would have loved this...

It's just a case of "styles make fights". Nothing to do with their age.

It is also a case of a large number of people wanting to see the loud mouth self proclaimed greatest boxer of all time get knocked out. Pac has been built up as the fighter that can do just that. Add to the mix a vast majority of "new' boxing fans who know little about the sport other than what pac has done over the last few years and it's easy to see why so many people want to see this fight. Mayweather will be laughing all the way to the bank because a lot of people will pay to see him lose and he knows it.

[bhatmasterson]

I doubt the fight will live up to its hype.....two fighters past their prime and focused on the money

I see the fight ending on a foul such as low blow, headbutt, or maybe a tyson style ear chomp who knows

then everyone will get sucked in for the rematch......

PT Barnum would have loved this...

Im so sick of hearing about Mayweather and Pac. These 2 probably wont even be in their primes when they fight.

Frankly I couldnt care less anymore as there both fuc_ked up what would of been one of the greatest fights of the last decade.

Did anyone ever seriously think that a Mayweather/Pacquiao fight would be "one of the greatest fights of the last decade"?

With Mayweather being so defensively minded and a counterpuncher extraordinaire there's no way it can ever be a great fight.

Well first off, I have never seen Pac or Mayweather behave in any of the ways mentioned here which could bring an early end to the fight. So there is really no reason to suspect this as a possible outcome should the fight ever happen IMO.

Secondly, if we're assigning blame for the fight being F'd up and not happening at least a year ago, one party has stuck to the same story all along while the other party has been around the moon with excuses. That same party is now seemingly ready to agree to what he would not agree to over a year ago. Also, in fairness to Pac, it could be a management problem which is stopping progress.

Yes, some of the luster has disappeared concerning this possible match up but only because Pac couldn't do as his fans expected in his last outing against an almost 40 year old Marquez. Who certainly is past it, but still had enough in the tank to prove to many that Pac will have big trouble against the 34 year old Mayweather. Pac is only 32.

[tropo]

Also, in fairness to Pac, it could be a management problem which is stopping progress.

In fairness to Pac's management, he's been getting 20 million plus for a string of fights.

I wouldn't call that bad management. He's also making his opponents rich at the same time.

Without this "bad management" he would still have been poor despite his skills.

Edited December 17, 2011 by tropo

[bhatmasterson]

Also, in fairness to Pac, it could be a management problem which is stopping progress.

In fairness to Pac's management, he's been getting 20 million plus for a string of fights.

I wouldn't call that bad management. He's also making his opponents rich at the same time.

Without this "bad management" he would still have been poor despite his skills.

According to Forbes your figures are off. And I don't think what his opponents are making is as important as what Pac makes. I agree, starting out Manny needed a top manager but you do your guy a disservice by suggesting he couldn't have done better in a different management situation or by being his own manager. Manny's boss pays his opponents a nice payday but seems to me his boss, Bob Arum, gets pretty sizable share of the money as well. Doesn't seem fair to me. He's never been in the ring or been hit in the face by Marquez.

He should leave Arum and get the money he deserves while he still can. Floyd did and now he decides who get what percentage of his winnings. Not Arum. IMO this is one of the reason Arum does not want to work with Mayweather.

Manny Pacquiao

Annual earnings according to Forbes:

2011 Earnings: $25 Million

2010 Earnings: $42 Million

2009 Earnings: $40 Million

Career earnings:

$2 million – against Erik Morales (January 2006)

$1 million – against Oscar Larios (July 2006)

$3 million – against Erik Morales (November 2006)

$2 million – against Jorge Solis (April 2007)

$2 million – against Marco Antonio Barrera (October 2007)

$11 million – against Oscar De la Hoya (December 2008)

$12 million – against Ricky Hatton (May 2009)

$14 million – against Miguel Cotto (November 2009)

$25 million – against Antonio Margarito (November 2010)

$15 million – against Shane Mosley (May 2011)

Floyd's Career Earnings:

Carlos Baldomir November 4, 2006 – $8 million -----------------I think this was the last fight under Bob Arum.

Oscar De La Hoya May 5, 2007 – $25 million

Ricky Hatton December 8, 2007 – $25 million

World Wrestling Entertainment Appearance – $20 million

Juan Manuel Márquez September 19, 2009 – $25 million

Sugar Shane Mosley May 14th, 2010 – $30 million

Victor Ortiz September 17th, 2011 – $40 million

[bhatmasterson]

Here's another view on the situation. It all seems pretty clear to me. I have no reason to disbelieve anything in the article because I've heard the same from other sources whom I consider to be reliable.

http://www.opposingv...ayweather-fight

[tropo]

Manny Pacquiao

Annual earnings according to Forbes:

2011 Earnings: $25 Million

2010 Earnings: $42 Million

2009 Earnings: $40 Million

Career earnings:

$2 million – against Erik Morales (January 2006)

$1 million – against Oscar Larios (July 2006)

$3 million – against Erik Morales (November 2006)

$2 million – against Jorge Solis (April 2007)

$2 million – against Marco Antonio Barrera (October 2007)

$11 million – against Oscar De la Hoya (December 2008)

$12 million – against Ricky Hatton (May 2009)

$14 million – against Miguel Cotto (November 2009)

$25 million – against Antonio Margarito (November 2010)

$15 million – against Shane Mosley (May 2011)

Floyd's Career Earnings:

Carlos Baldomir November 4, 2006 – $8 million -----------------I think this was the last fight under Bob Arum.

Oscar De La Hoya May 5, 2007 – $25 million

Ricky Hatton December 8, 2007 – $25 million

World Wrestling Entertainment Appearance – $20 million

Juan Manuel Márquez September 19, 2009 – $25 million

Sugar Shane Mosley May 14th, 2010 – $30 million

Victor Ortiz September 17th, 2011 – $40 million

Considering their pay per view figures over the last 3 years have been very close I would not put much trust in the Forbes figures you cut n' pasted.

Interesting they left out the Joshua Clottey fight earnings in the list but underneath their list they said he made a combined total of $35 million for that fight and the Cotto fight combined, making the fight a $21 million pay day.

Another interesting figure was their net worth. Pacquiao $70 million, Floyd $90 million. Not bad considering how late Pacquiao has been earning the big bucks compared to Floyd.

But anyway, these figures should be taken with a grain of salt. Do you seriously believe Mayweather made $40 million for his fight with Ortiz. I'd like to see some reliable references to back that up.

[tailspin]

age and style are definitely related....was a young cassius clay the same as the older ali.....

I doubt the fight will live up to its hype.....two fighters past their prime and focused on the money

I see the fight ending on a foul such as low blow, headbutt, or maybe a tyson style ear chomp who knows

then everyone will get sucked in for the rematch......

PT Barnum would have loved this...

It's just a case of "styles make fights". Nothing to do with their age.

[bhatmasterson]

Manny Pacquiao

Annual earnings according to Forbes:

2011 Earnings: $25 Million

2010 Earnings: $42 Million

2009 Earnings: $40 Million

Career earnings:

$2 million – against Erik Morales (January 2006)

$1 million – against Oscar Larios (July 2006)

$3 million – against Erik Morales (November 2006)

$2 million – against Jorge Solis (April 2007)

$2 million – against Marco Antonio Barrera (October 2007)

$11 million – against Oscar De la Hoya (December 2008)

$12 million – against Ricky Hatton (May 2009)

$14 million – against Miguel Cotto (November 2009)

$25 million – against Antonio Margarito (November 2010)

$15 million – against Shane Mosley (May 2011)

Floyd's Career Earnings:

Carlos Baldomir November 4, 2006 – $8 million -----------------I think this was the last fight under Bob Arum.

Oscar De La Hoya May 5, 2007 – $25 million

Ricky Hatton December 8, 2007 – $25 million

World Wrestling Entertainment Appearance – $20 million

Juan Manuel Márquez September 19, 2009 – $25 million

Sugar Shane Mosley May 14th, 2010 – $30 million

Victor Ortiz September 17th, 2011 – $40 million

Considering their pay per view figures over the last 3 years have been very close I would not put much trust in the Forbes figures you cut n' pasted.

Interesting they left out the Joshua Clottey fight earnings in the list but underneath their list they said he made a combined total of $35 million for that fight and the Cotto fight combined, making the fight a $21 million pay day.

Another interesting figure was their net worth. Pacquiao $70 million, Floyd $90 million. Not bad considering how late Pacquiao has been earning the big bucks compared to Floyd.

But anyway, these figures should be taken with a grain of salt. Do you seriously believe Mayweather made $40 million for his fight with Ortiz. I'd like to see some reliable references to back that up.

No you wouldn't.

[bhatmasterson]

http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content11391.html

[bhatmasterson]

double post

Edited December 18, 2011 by bhatmasterson

[tropo]

age and style are definitely related....was a young cassius clay the same as the older ali.....

You're making a huge deal about Pacquiao's age. I'm glad you brought up Mohammad Ali.

"Rumble in the Jungle" - October 30, 1974 - Mohammad Ali's age: 33 years, 286 days

Pacquiao vs Marquez - November 12, 2011 - Pacquiao's age was 32 years, 330 days

"Thrilla in Manila" - October 1, 1975 - Mohammad Ali's age: 34 years, 275 days. Joe Frazier's age: 31 years, 260 days.

Thrilla in Manila is often ranked as one of the greatest fights of the 20th century. Both men old according to your assessment of age.

What's really interesting is that between those 2 fights Ali had 3 others and had 4 more in the year after "Thrilla in Manila". They were real warriors back in those days, even when they were "old men".

[tropo]

No you wouldn't.

Yes I would - like to see some reliable evidence of Mayweather's touted 40 million pay for the Ortiz fight.

Edited December 18, 2011 by tropo

[tropo]

http://www.fighthype...ntent11391.html

You probably think it's all about money. There's something far more important to Pacquiao than money - national pride. He let that slip now he wants it back.

[bhatmasterson]

http://www.fighthype...ntent11391.html

You probably think it's all about money. There's something far more important to Pacquiao than money - national pride. He let that slip now he wants it back.

Yeah........right.

[tropo]

http://www.fighthype...ntent11391.html

You probably think it's all about money. There's something far more important to Pacquiao than money - national pride. He let that slip now he wants it back.

Yeah........right.

Yes..... definitely. Why else would Pacquiao decide that the fight is more important than a fair split of the purse? He's also made it quite clear he wants to fight and he's going to fight. All this nonsense about Arum trying to prevent the fight is just that - nonsense.

Let's hope this latest move will finally entice Mayweather to man up.

[bhatmasterson]

Yes..... definitely. Why else would Pacquiao decide that the fight is more important than a fair split of the purse? He's also made it quite clear he wants to fight and he's going to fight. All this nonsense about Arum trying to prevent the fight is just that - nonsense.

Let's hope this latest move will finally entice Mayweather to man up.

Pac wants to make the fight happen now because he was out classed by WMM in his last fight. You can say "National pride slip," all you like. That's just another way of saying the same thing. Freddy Roach says Pac has money troubles which is another reason he needs to make the fight. Anybody who knows the sport can understand that If Pac looks bad against another opponent before he fights Mayweather he may not get the payday of his life. It does not matter what pac is willing to do "now." It's up to his boss if and when the fight happens. May 5th has been on hold for several weeks now. Man up who???