Pacquiao Vs Marquez

[tropo]

Pac wants to make the fight happen now because he was out classed by WMM in his last fight. You can say "National pride slip," all you like. That's just another way of saying the same thing. Freddy Roach says Pac has money troubles which is another reason he needs to make the fight. Anybody who knows the sport can understand that If Pac looks bad against another opponent before he fights Mayweather he may not get the payday of his life. It does not matter what pac is willing to do "now." It's up to his boss if and when the fight happens. May 5th has been on hold for several weeks now. Man up who???

I do say national pride and that is what it is.

Funny how you tout articles which go into Manny's supposed financial trouble then you copy n' paste long extracts from what you must consider the God of financial wisdom, Forbes, to show the size of paydays.

Did it never occur to you that the same reference (Forbes) pegs Pacquiao's net worth at 70 million USD.

You obviously have no understanding of the persona of Filipinos from very poor backgrounds. Money is not first on Manny's list. Not even second. That's one of the reasons he spends it so fast.

[bhatmasterson]

Pac wants to make the fight happen now because he was out classed by WMM in his last fight. You can say "National pride slip," all you like. That's just another way of saying the same thing. Freddy Roach says Pac has money troubles which is another reason he needs to make the fight. Anybody who knows the sport can understand that If Pac looks bad against another opponent before he fights Mayweather he may not get the payday of his life. It does not matter what pac is willing to do "now." It's up to his boss if and when the fight happens. May 5th has been on hold for several weeks now. Man up who???

I do say national pride and that is what it is.

Funny how you tout articles which go into Manny's supposed financial trouble then you copy n' paste long extracts from what you must consider the God of financial wisdom, Forbes, to show the size of paydays.

Did it never occur to you that the same reference (Forbes) pegs Pacquiao's net worth at 70 million USD.

You obviously have no understanding of the persona of Filipinos from very poor backgrounds. Money is not first on Manny's list. Not even second. That's one of the reasons he spends it so fast.

We were talking about Manny's management and got into his financial troubles because you said:

"In fairness to Pac's management, he's been getting 20 million plus for a string of fights.

I wouldn't call that bad management. He's also making his opponents rich at the same time.

Without this "bad management" he would still have been poor despite his skills."

I told you why I think Manny is being managed badly and showed you figures which are easily attainable on the subject if one takes time to look. Those figures debunk what you said so naturally you don't trust them. So you don't like the figures from Forbes? Okay. Show us some contradicting figures.

As one sports writer put it, "Rich people broke", "Is a lot different from us normal people being broke. He still has money, no doubt, but then again, he still has to ask his promoter for advances prior to his fights, as was the case before the Marquez fight."

You get shut down on one nonfactual comment after another and then cling on to the next idea you think will hold water. The people reading this thread who click on the links I've posted surely see how weak your arguments are. At least I'm able to show opposing views, figures and facts. You've done none of this when it counts.

Yes. I know that Forbes says Manny is worth 70 million. I'm the one who posted the figures.

"You obviously have no understanding of the persona of Filipinos from very poor backgrounds"

Well, I'm not married to a Filipino, but I do possess a great deal of empathy, understand human nature to a good degree and the importance of money.

"Money is not first on Manny's list. Not even second. That's one of the reasons he spends it so fast."

I'm sure you said a few pages back that you aren't clairvoyant. I guess you've regained those powers.

[chicagogato]

No you wouldn't.

Yes I would - like to see some reliable evidence of Mayweather's touted 40 million pay for the Ortiz fight.

New York Times

Unbeaten Boxer Pioneers Ways to Make Money Hand Over Fist

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/17/sports/floyd-mayweather-jr-welterweight-with-heavyweight-financial-clout.html?scp=2&sq=Floyd%20Mayweather%20Jr.&st=cse

[tropo]

We were talking about Manny's management and got into his financial troubles because you said:

"In fairness to Pac's management, he's been getting 20 million plus for a string of fights.

I wouldn't call that bad management. He's also making his opponents rich at the same time.

Without this "bad management" he would still have been poor despite his skills."

I told you why I think Manny is being managed badly and showed you figures which are easily attainable on the subject if one takes time to look. Those figures debunk what you said so naturally you don't trust them. So you don't like the figures from Forbes? Okay. Show us some contradicting figures.

As one sports writer put it, "Rich people broke", "Is a lot different from us normal people being broke. He still has money, no doubt, but then again, he still has to ask his promoter for advances prior to his fights, as was the case before the Marquez fight."

You get shut down on one nonfactual comment after another and then cling on to the next idea you think will hold water. The people reading this thread who click on the links I've posted surely see how weak your arguments are. At least I'm able to show opposing views, figures and facts. You've done none of this when it counts.

Yes. I know that Forbes says Manny is worth 70 million. I'm the one who posted the figures.

"You obviously have no understanding of the persona of Filipinos from very poor backgrounds"

Well, I'm not married to a Filipino, but I do possess a great deal of empathy, understand human nature to a good degree and the importance of money.

"Money is not first on Manny's list. Not even second. That's one of the reasons he spends it so fast."

I'm sure you said a few pages back that you aren't clairvoyant. I guess you've regained those powers.

Well at least it is an improvement on your sarcastic one or two word responses, but how about using quotes properly instead of mixing good replies with bad responses.

Let's try not to get you confused and address some of your errors in point form:

1. You did not post that Manny was worth 70 million. I was the one who posted that.

Obviously he can't be broke according to Forbes if he's worth 70 million - that would be absurd.... yet you post articles pushing your theory that he's in financial trouble. You really believe that Freddy Roach is divulging information about Manny's financial affairs?

2. You didn't show any facts. You just copy n' pasted figures from Forbes.

3. Real figures are not easily obtainable even if you take the time to look. They're impossible to come by. All you can find is Forbes and opinions by boxinig writers. You'll not find factual evidence to back up your claim for Mayweather's 40 million pay day fighting Ortiz no matter how hard you search because none exists. It's nonsense perpetuated by the Mayweather camp to increase his sense of self-worth. Just look for the pay-per-view figures. Where did the $40 come from?

4. You've made a big deal about my comment that Pacquiao was making 20 million plus for a string of fights. You took this far too literally and became totally anal about it. My point was that he's making truck loads of money - which prompted you to copy n' paste nearly an entire page from Forbes.com

5. You're making a huge effort to discount my replies by attacking me personally, but offering no substance.

6. You find it very hard to believe that money is not number one for Manny probably because you're obsessed by it. When you have an inkling how people from poor rural communities in the Philippines think you can comment. Family, friends and respect from his countrymen are higher on the list. Money would be lucky to come in at number 4.

Edited December 19, 2011 by tropo

[tropo]

No you wouldn't.

Yes I would - like to see some reliable evidence of Mayweather's touted 40 million pay for the Ortiz fight.

New York Times

Unbeaten Boxer Pioneers Ways to Make Money Hand Over Fist

http://www.nytimes.c...er%20Jr.&st=cse

From your linked article:

"In his previous four fights, Mayweather earned $115 million..."

That's exactly the amount published by Forbes.com for his previous 4 outings. Scroll up to post #108 by bhatmasterton. It must be accurate then.

[tropo]

The fact remains your link is using Forbes.com for all their figures.Why would pointing that out make you so angry?

Edited December 20, 2011 by tropo

[craigt3365]

One flame post has been removed from view. Please abide by forum rules:

In using Thai Visa I agree:

1) To respect fellow members.

[WebBangkok]

Im so sick of hearing about Mayweather and Pac. These 2 probably wont even be in their primes when they fight.

Frankly I couldnt care less anymore as there both fuc_ked up what would of been one of the greatest fights of the last decade.

Did anyone ever seriously think that a Mayweather/Pacquiao fight would be "one of the greatest fights of the last decade"?

With Mayweather being so defensively minded and a counterpuncher extraordinaire there's no way it can ever be a great fight.

Yeah there styles don't work well, but it would of been a fight everyone would of loved to see. Just os it shuts the Pactards and Flomos up. Its not everyday 2 of the best fighters in the last decade where in there primes at the same time and also fighting in the same weight class.

[steveromagnino]

I love boxing, I hope this fight happens, and I hope it goes 12 rounds.

The so called best fights...my personal favourite (as a southpaw) was Sweet Pea against the Golden Boy; ignoring the fact that Whittaker was probably robbed, this is the type of fight I love watching where a defensive genuis completely neutralises a strong offensive fighter (in that case much taller and younger also); yet a non boxer might say it was a lousy boring fight.

Styles make fights sure, but for the non boxer Sweet Pea and Mayweather's style is a lot less interesting than the aggression of say Tyson/Pacman/Hatton etc no matter who they are up against.

He's not a nice person, i think he's a 'flawed individual' to use a quote applied to another fighter...but Mayweather is an amazing defensive fighter to watch. And like Sweet Pea, I don't believe it's a style that is totally reliant of speed and youth; someone like Roy Jones Jr really has suffered as he's slowed down; the time for slowing down if anything I think would affect Pacman if anything more than Mayweather, despite the sad reality that Mayweather hardly ever bothers lacing up his gloves these days.

I suspect it won't happen in May 2012, but stranger things have happened; for me I am sure it will be a fight I will end up watching 100 times (just like Oscar vs. Sweet Pea).

[tropo]

A fight in May is now off the table as Mayweather has just been sentenced to 90 days in jail starting on January 6.

http://philboxing.com/news/story-64399.html

[bhatmasterson]

I love boxing, I hope this fight happens, and I hope it goes 12 rounds.

The so called best fights...my personal favourite (as a southpaw) was Sweet Pea against the Golden Boy; ignoring the fact that Whittaker was probably robbed, this is the type of fight I love watching where a defensive genuis completely neutralises a strong offensive fighter (in that case much taller and younger also); yet a non boxer might say it was a lousy boring fight.

Styles make fights sure, but for the non boxer Sweet Pea and Mayweather's style is a lot less interesting than the aggression of say Tyson/Pacman/Hatton etc no matter who they are up against.

He's not a nice person, i think he's a 'flawed individual' to use a quote applied to another fighter...but Mayweather is an amazing defensive fighter to watch. And like Sweet Pea, I don't believe it's a style that is totally reliant of speed and youth; someone like Roy Jones Jr really has suffered as he's slowed down; the time for slowing down if anything I think would affect Pacman if anything more than Mayweather, despite the sad reality that Mayweather hardly ever bothers lacing up his gloves these days.

I suspect it won't happen in May 2012, but stranger things have happened; for me I am sure it w

ill be a fight I will end up watching 100 times (just like Oscar vs. Sweet Pea).

Agree with your sentiments completely. If the fight ever happen there may not be time to blink.

A defensive fighter who has fast hands against a brawler who also has fast hands = Excitement! A thinking man's game. Any 2 grown men can beat the daylights out of each other in the square circle but it takes skill to box.

Mayweather is going away for 90 days, perhaps less with good behavior. It'll be interesting to see what happen with Pac in the mean time. Arum may get his wish and make a 4th Marquez fight but I think he would be better off waiting an additional month or 2 for the fight everyone wants to see.

[steveromagnino]

I think Pacman got VERY lucky last time out; not sure if he would want to line up part IV and see the if the judges would rob Maquez again>??!

But like you say, that's what his promoter has in mind most likely...Mayweather is a 'flawed individual' (must hold tongue and leave it at this) outside the ring, but looking at the videos of him training, he is simply a boxing machine and probably can figure something out to keep his hand in the game while he's put away; he's not like Tyson looking at 3+ years.

Looking at the details, I think Pacquio would need to come up with a few new gimmicks to confuse Floyd to get inside his range, otherwise he's going to be wearing jabs and counterpunches the entire evening, and Pacman is at a guess giving up a little reach, not a lot but some. And when he gets inside, then it will be like trying to catch an eel in boxing gloves to land anything. If it's like the inside fighting against Marquez, I think Pacman will really struggle, Floyd Mayweather is way too slick to get hit with what we saw last month. Or maybe he'll try fighting from the outside...seems to be a bit counter to the way he's developed from a swarming sort of brawler to what we see now a brawler verging on boxer/puncher who is often on the inside simply due to size.

The idea that Mayweather will struggle against a lefty...after 2 rounds he totally had the measure of Ortiz, Pacman's a bit more polished and packs a bit more of a punch in his power punches and has (now) nice lateral movement especially after a flurry he's quick to get back out of range...but like I said...it will be similar to catching an eel on the inside.

Everyone I know thinks Mayweather will get cleaned out. As I like counterpunchers and southpaws, I'm split; can't see it strongly one way or the other to be honest; probably would get into the late rounds which is when counterpunchers often win through sheer frustrating their opponents, and getting better and better reads on them to clock them as we saw with Hatton and Mosley, neither of whom quite matched the intensity, speed and overall package of Pacman if he's like he was 2+ fights ago - I still think if he shows up as he did in Marquez III Pacman will find it dam_n tough.

I'd almost consider flying over to watch Pacquiao Mayweather...has the makings of fight of the decade all over it.

Edited December 23, 2011 by steveromagnino

[chicagogato]

I think Pacman got VERY lucky last time out; not sure if he would want to line up part IV and see the if the judges would rob Maquez again>??!

But like you say, that's what his promoter has in mind most likely...Mayweather is a 'flawed individual' (must hold tongue and leave it at this) outside the ring, but looking at the videos of him training, he is simply a boxing machine and probably can figure something out to keep his hand in the game while he's put away; he's not like Tyson looking at 3+ years.

Looking at the details, I think Pacquio would need to come up with a few new gimmicks to confuse Floyd to get inside his range, otherwise he's going to be wearing jabs and counterpunches the entire evening, and Pacman is at a guess giving up a little reach, not a lot but some. And when he gets inside, then it will be like trying to catch an eel in boxing gloves to land anything. If it's like the inside fighting against Marquez, I think Pacman will really struggle, Floyd Mayweather is way too slick to get hit with what we saw last month. Or maybe he'll try fighting from the outside...seems to be a bit counter to the way he's developed from a swarming sort of brawler to what we see now a brawler verging on boxer/puncher who is often on the inside simply due to size.

The idea that Mayweather will struggle against a lefty...after 2 rounds he totally had the measure of Ortiz, Pacman's a bit more polished and packs a bit more of a punch in his power punches and has (now) nice lateral movement especially after a flurry he's quick to get back out of range...but like I said...it will be similar to catching an eel on the inside.

Everyone I know thinks Mayweather will get cleaned out. As I like counterpunchers and southpaws, I'm split; can't see it strongly one way or the other to be honest; probably would get into the late rounds which is when counterpunchers often win through sheer frustrating their opponents, and getting better and better reads on them to clock them as we saw with Hatton and Mosley, neither of whom quite matched the intensity, speed and overall package of Pacman if he's like he was 2+ fights ago - I still think if he shows up as he did in Marquez III Pacman will find it dam_n tough.

I'd almost consider flying over to watch Pacquiao Mayweather...has the makings of fight of the decade all over it.

Agree with everything you say. But, I can't sit on the fence. I see Pac getting "Cleaned out." FM does everything better than WMM and he's bigger. I have seen absolutely nothing from Pac's previous performances that even gives me reason to believe Pac beats FM. He couldn't handle a 38 year old WMM.

[bhatmasterson]

The door is open again for May 5th. The question is will Arum allow Pacman to step through it?

Mayweather's attorneys successfully argued Friday that he should not have to report to jail until June1 to begin his 87 day sentence in a domestic dispute. However, his availability apparently won't speed up the time table on a possible Floyd vs Pac because now Pac won't be available to fight in June.